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Geno: Substitution Patterns

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This is such a typical Boneyard post. Geno has always provided playing time consistent with performance. While none of our top substitutes - Dorka, Nika, Azzi - is playing up to their potential, instead of recognizing that its only two games into the season, calls are coming to blow things up.
 

eebmg

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Latest quote on how Geno see's the development of the newbies


Is Auriemma seeing progress from his newest players?

“It’s spotty and it goes in spurts but, yeah,” he said. “There was a point [Saturday] where we got outscored 11-2, so that’s unacceptable moving forward. We’ve got to come in and execute. It’s relatable to, if you’re playing really well at one of the floor, there’s a pretty good chance you’re going to play really well at the other end of the floor. So these young guys, when they learn that if we play really well defensively and if they get into the mix, that’s going to carry over to their offense. They haven’t embraced that part yet.”
 
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Geno is the Coach. He has three solid Coaches to his left or right, depending on where he is standing. They trust each other out there. I am going to sit back and let him coach and run the team. Whatever rotation they go with, they go with. As a fan, I do get frustrated when I see a skilled player like Dorka only getting 4-5 minutes a game. Or Nika getting 8-10 minutes a game. But Coach knows best and I gotta remember that and sit back and enjoy the game. Coach Geno and the Coaching staff knows best.
 
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as much as he doesn't want to, I expect Geno will need to go at least eight deep against South Carolina in what will be a high energy game..........once conference play begins the rest of the bench will get their minutes, hopefully an entire quarter on some occasions.........
 
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The time to get the bench experience can come in the gimme games in Big Easy games. While you want to see your starters plus 6th woman improve as a unit, you still have to make sure you are prepared for foul troubles or injuries. After the SC game, I watched my other team, Colorado, blow out Samford. The box score will show CU star Mya scored only 11 points but Mya was given a rest as JR Payne played her bench extensively. The result was players I admit I didn’t even know were on the team played extremely well, gaining invaluable game experience, especially in sinking threes and maintaining the team’s strong defense. A similar approach by UConn down the road that will pay dividends, especially with potential stars such as Azzi and Caroline. Stanford frequently relied on a ten person rotation. If you’ve got ‘em, smoke ‘em.
 
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The time to get the bench experience can come in the gimme games in Big Easy games. While you want to see your starters plus 6th woman improve as a unit, you still have to make sure you are prepared for foul troubles or injuries. After the SC game, I watched my other team, Colorado, blow out Samford. The box score will show CU star Mya scored only 11 points but Mya was given a rest as JR Payne played her bench extensively. The result was players I admit I didn’t even know were on the team played extremely well, gaining invaluable game experience, especially in sinking threes and maintaining the team’s strong defense. A similar approach by UConn down the road that will pay dividends, especially with potential stars such as Azzi and Caroline. Stanford frequently relied on a ten person rotation. If you’ve got ‘em, smoke ‘em.
I agree. I was going to post that Geno should sit Paige in the games that are not super competitive (at least the first half) Force them learn how to play when she's not on the floor. It's too much dependence on one player.
 
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I agree to getting more players playing time. Plus, on a selfish note, these non-starting players are people that I want to watch. I’ve heard about them throughout their recruitment (for the most part), have seen high school video highlights, etc. Of course I’m not the coach, but All-Americans should have the skills to play, let’s see them in action!
 
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Yes, I'm willing to shake the beehive a little bit! (BY)
Disclaimer: 11 NC's, .88 winning percentage............. That being said..
1) Is GA struggling with his subbing? I might argue that great coaches may be less skillful at subbing than mediocre coaches. The mediocre coach has a squad with minimal difference between the best player and the last man, so they're used to using their people. Are these runs by our starters evidence of anything? 12-0 start, 12 point margin at the half.
2) Did we see some similar results from our subs in both games? Don't forget our bench is a roster for a McDonald's All-Star game. They ain't chopped liver.
3) What if Geno subbed only one player at a time? Looks like that 1st move is too drastic.
4) Do you see roles being formed by the subs? Saw a little more from Nika, especially with her on-ball pressure.
5) Tough decisions- get your key people minutes together versus getting everyone some minutes. I'm not saying it's easy! Amari and Mir?
6) Maybe when BE starts, Geno forms a "blue team", 5 subs at a time, usually one stint a half, 2:00 or so depending on whether they hold the lead, maybe more, if they increase the lead. Maybe they have a different personality than the starters: zone team, pressing team, purposely changing the tempo, whatever their strengths are. They also form their own cohesive unit. Good for practices. Improves team morale. Players from this squad can earn additional time. Group not carved in stone, can change. May need a key player to be with them for leadership- E, Nika? Result is: everyone is contributing, every game. Everyone is ready to be called. Everyone is being coached in real game situations, not just "turkey-time" at the end.
3-4 top-ten games this year, you may not use this. Can you imagine the look on Dawn's face as he receives a left hook from Geno's blue team? Ouch!
Have at it!
You are asking Geno to change his ways. To structure his attack and defense differently. And maybe you are right. UCONN has not won a championship in a long time ( relatively speaking ). Maybe he does need to adjust his style. But I find it hard to imagine. All world coaches like Geno tend got stay with"what brought them to the dance." I love your thinking. And if we were DePaul, it would happen. But I think UCONN will develop the same way, and use the same methods, that won them ( how many ? ) championships, under coach Geno A. Players will earn court time in practice. And when they earn it, they must deliver.
 
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I agree to getting more players playing time. Plus, on a selfish note, these non-starting players are people that I want to watch. I’ve heard about them throughout their recruitment (for the most part), have seen high school video highlights, etc. Of course I’m not the coach, but All-Americans should have the skills to play, let’s see them in action!
We all feel the same way. But Geno has a formula. And that won't change. Players must earn court time in practice. And, once on court, they must execute. Great players need to force their way into the line-up. Unfortunately ( for us and some players), not everyone on the bench has greatness in them. So we only see them in garbage time. And that is the way it goes.
 
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You are asking Geno to change his ways. To structure his attack and defense differently. And maybe you are right. UCONN has not won a championship in a long time ( relatively speaking ). Maybe he does need to adjust his style. But I find it hard to imagine. All world coaches like Geno tend got stay with"what brought them to the dance." I love your thinking. And if we were DePaul, it would happen. But I think UCONN will develop the same way, and use the same methods, that won them ( how many ? ) championships, under coach Geno A. Players will earn court time in practice. And when they earn it, they must deliver.
Cannot buy into that.
I observe the teams play and roster.
I know a little bit about b-ball.
And I’m positive that Coach has forgotten more than I’ll ever know.
However...
I’m still working at something I’ve been doing for 35 years.
Love what I do.
Remain successful.
But along the way, I’ve had to make adjustments.
Market place changes.
Products change.
Means of communication change.
Methods of payment change.
Was it Satchel Page?- “Don’t look back, someone may be gaining on ya’.”
 
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Cannot buy into that.
I observe the teams play and roster.
I know a little bit about b-ball.
And I’m positive that Coach has forgotten more than I’ll ever know.
However...
I’m still working at something I’ve been doing for 35 years.
Love what I do.
Remain successful.
But along the way, I’ve had to make adjustments.
Market place changes.
Products change.
Means of communication change.
Methods of payment change.
Was it Satchel Page?- “Don’t look back, someone may be gaining on ya’.”
This post is publishable!
 
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Yes, I'm willing to shake the beehive a little bit! (BY)
Disclaimer: 11 NC's, .88 winning percentage............. That being said..
1) Is GA struggling with his subbing? I might argue that great coaches may be less skillful at subbing than mediocre coaches. The mediocre coach has a squad with minimal difference between the best player and the last man, so they're used to using their people. Are these runs by our starters evidence of anything? 12-0 start, 12 point margin at the half.
2) Did we see some similar results from our subs in both games? Don't forget our bench is a roster for a McDonald's All-Star game. They ain't chopped liver.
3) What if Geno subbed only one player at a time? Looks like that 1st move is too drastic.
4) Do you see roles being formed by the subs? Saw a little more from Nika, especially with her on-ball pressure.
5) Tough decisions- get your key people minutes together versus getting everyone some minutes. I'm not saying it's easy! Amari and Mir?
6) Maybe when BE starts, Geno forms a "blue team", 5 subs at a time, usually one stint a half, 2:00 or so depending on whether they hold the lead, maybe more, if they increase the lead. Maybe they have a different personality than the starters: zone team, pressing team, purposely changing the tempo, whatever their strengths are. They also form their own cohesive unit. Good for practices. Improves team morale. Players from this squad can earn additional time. Group not carved in stone, can change. May need a key player to be with them for leadership- E, Nika? Result is: everyone is contributing, every game. Everyone is ready to be called. Everyone is being coached in real game situations, not just "turkey-time" at the end.
3-4 top-ten games this year, you may not use this. Can you imagine the look on Dawn's face as he receives a left hook from Geno's blue team? Ouch!
Have at it!
All your Geno disclaimers aside; Geno IS having trouble with subbing--not his internal problems--but who can he put in to sub for Paige without 4 turnovers and 5 missed shots. Who does he sub for ONO who just committed her second foul in the first quarter without losing her defense (yes, she is pretty good at defense). Griffin, normally a sub for Edwards is among the walking wounded. The fatigue is showing on CW, Paige, Edwards, Ono, However Geno usually has the most superior conditioned team in WCBB. He just doesn't have a player (without the exception of the "bigs" on the bench, if they could) that could have stopped Boston. Except for Paige and CW, nika is hurting mentally or physically, few options for one on one defense. Yes, GENO has problems with subbing. No doubt.
 
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Cannot buy into that.
I observe the teams play and roster.
I know a little bit about b-ball.
And I’m positive that Coach has forgotten more than I’ll ever know.
However...
I’m still working at something I’ve been doing for 35 years.
Love what I do.
Remain successful.
But along the way, I’ve had to make adjustments.
Market place changes.
Products change.
Means of communication change.
Methods of payment change.
Was it Satchel Page?- “Don’t look back, someone may be gaining on ya’.”
Geno of 2020 is so far from the Geno of 2000 or 2014 he is almost unrecognizable. Geno never changes is the greatest myth in Womens basketball. AS you pointed out--in nearly every profession it is typically change . Those that don't change are left in the modern dust. This world from 2000 is constant and perpetual in change. Don't believe those that tell you Geno won't change they are drinking the myth orange juice. Ask Tenn or Dorka (a transfer), or Azzi or Paige when she was a freshmen.
 
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All your Geno disclaimers aside; Geno IS having trouble with subbing--not his internal problems--but who can he put in to sub for Paige without 4 turnovers and 5 missed shots. Who does he sub for ONO who just committed her second foul in the first quarter without losing her defense (yes, she is pretty good at defense). Griffin, normally a sub for Edwards is among the walking wounded. The fatigue is showing on CW, Paige, Edwards, Ono, However Geno usually has the most superior conditioned team in WCBB. He just doesn't have a player (without the exception of the "bigs" on the bench, if they could) that could have stopped Boston. Except for Paige and CW, nika is hurting mentally or physically, few options for one on one defense. Yes, GENO has problems with subbing. No doubt.
You state your case well!
I like to think that his bench is an asset and as such, he needs to use it. What if he started recruiting like 6 or 7 deep? He could hold open tryouts on campus to fill out the roster. I agree that they're not performing but that could be a "chicken or egg" discussion.
If I'm a golfer and I have a mad short-game, that is an advantage that I have. So, to take advantage of that, I would be more aggressive with my tee-shots and/or approach shots, because if I err, I have a good chance of getting up and down, and if I pull off the shots, I make more birdies. (Jordan Spieth)
IMO Geno's bench has to become an actual advantage. Dumb it down Geno! Could his judgement of these recruits be that off!
 
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Tell Paige she has to sit? She is a player. She will not sit for a half. She plays. Find the best other 4 to play with her. That what you have to do.
 
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Geno is the Coach. He has three solid Coaches to his left or right, depending on where he is standing. They trust each other out there. I am going to sit back and let him coach and run the team. Whatever rotation they go with, they go with. As a fan, I do get frustrated when I see a skilled player like Dorka only getting 4-5 minutes a game. Or Nika getting 8-10 minutes a game. But Coach knows best and I gotta remember that and sit back and enjoy the game. Coach Geno and the Coaching staff knows best.
He’s the best to ever do it in the women’s game, and you can argue he’s one of the best coaches of all time in any sport.

But that doesn’t make him infallible. The lack of depth and development of the bench has been an issue for years now, and I have a hard time believing UConn’s bench has had less talent than the other top 25 teams.

It’s okay to acknowledge an area where the coaching staff has struggled recently.
 
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Cannot buy into that.
I observe the teams play and roster.
I know a little bit about b-ball.
And I’m positive that Coach has forgotten more than I’ll ever know.
However...
I’m still working at something I’ve been doing for 35 years.
Love what I do.
Remain successful.
But along the way, I’ve had to make adjustments.
Market place changes.
Products change.
Means of communication change.
Methods of payment change.
Was it Satchel Page?- “Don’t look back, someone may be gaining on ya’.”
You don't have to buy into it. Neither you nor I have a say. I agree with your philosophy of growing and changing. Im just not confident that Geno does. Not many of us remember Satchel. But I do.
 
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Tell Paige she has to sit? She is a player. She will not sit for a half. She plays. Find the best other 4 to play with her. That what you have to do.
I agree. Practice is when you get the other kids to learn to play without Paige, not game time.
 
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I agree. Practice is when you get the other kids to learn to play without Paige, not game time.
I wouldn't bet against sitting her- she may volunteer, she's not happy with the way the Team is playing, Coach isn't happy, she's exhausted w/ the heavy lifting (no pun intended). I think It's not their talent or skill level that's the issue it's fire in the belly, desire. Last year they had it and it showed. Nika sporting black eye, AE bloodied in the mouth, diving on the ground for balls, banging around with SC, digging in in Tennessee just basic hustle, grit, the fearlessness. It's like they came into the season thinking "we have to run that back again" fear kicked in- that it's a gauntlet. The one thing that Geno always says he doesn't want his players to have is a fear of losing. You see it They freeze when pressured. They need to suck up this loss and move on. I agree with @Rudy1927 find the other 4 that want it as bad as Paige and let them start. It would be an improvement for sure and she'd be happy to pass the ball to people who want to shoot. Just saying :cool:
 
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3 games in 3 days. Would the team look better, this game, if all 5 starters played 30+ minutes ? Yes, but what about Sunday and hopefully, Monday ?
With three games in a row, the first one believed to be a given, the second possibly challenging, and the third one of the most important games of the season, playing time strategy should be geared toward optimizing the last game performance with some consideration for the middle game.

This tournament turned out to be harder to manage minutes because the middle game was a challenge. Do I think if we won that game by 20-30 and rested the starters a good part of the 4th quarter, that we would have been better against SC? Yea I do, we ran out of gas and lost our composure that 4th quarter. Uconn usually is the better conditioned team, but this time it looked like they were not, and major minutes in game 2 probably contributed to that.
 
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He’s the best to ever do it in the women’s game, and you can argue he’s one of the best coaches of all time in any sport.

But that doesn’t make him infallible. The lack of depth and development of the bench has been an issue for years now, and I have a hard time believing UConn’s bench has had less talent than the other top 25 teams.

It’s okay to acknowledge an area where the coaching staff has struggled recently.
This year isn't over yet but overall UCONN's starters in prior years haven't been as good as prior championship years. Until recently it's been his recruiting and bad luck players decommitted / left early etc. and the starters not as good which puts UCONN in a pool of every other team rather than being what they were - which was "far better." Its's not the bench-- it's the stars - starters. with a short bench.

Last year's champion was a bench but not the prior 3. In 2018-2019, Baylor went 7 deep in title game. In 2017-2018 ND went 6 deep. In 2017 South Carolina went 7 deep (excluding being ahead by around 10 they put 3 players in for 4 minutes).

The issue with UCONN is that they get to Final Fours but because they aren’t as dominant with multiple A/A's, when they compete in /F- game becomes more of a crapshoot without the past number of superstars. But as shown above the championship teams don’t use much of a bench other than what Stanford did either.

But unlike any of the other aforementioned teams – their consistency of playing for a title going into the last week (getting to the Final Four) takes a backseat to UCONN – even in the last few years.
 
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I will avoid the main debates of how long a rotation (6-7 vs 9 or 10) or pressing and fast-breaking to use the bench more, and focus on how Geno uses the last players on the bench. This is a minor issue in the scheme of things, but one that has always bothered me.

In general if you are not in the rotation, be it 7 or 10, you usually get a couple of minutes at the end of a 40 point blow out. My position is if those players never get any significant minutes short of an injury or foul trouble, then once the game is decided they should be in there.

When you are ahead by 25-30 against a team you are clearly better than, the game is over, I'm ready for the players out of the rotation, even if there is still say 15 minutes left in the game. Waiting till the last two minutes when you are up by 40, 30, or even 20 is in my opinion running up the score.

I know Geno likes to develop the team chemistry with his main players, and that is part of the reason for his approach, and there are numerous computer rankings where you will rank a little higher if you win by 40 instead of 35, even if it is by keeping your starters in long past the game being decided.

But we have to consider the downside to Geno's approach as well. If because of injury he has to use the tail end of the bench, they are less likely to be ready if they don't get more time than he gives them, but more importantly I think it can negatively affect recruiting.

If the players outside of the rotation are Pulido, Lawlor level players it may not matter. You don't have players that could do a decent job if needed, but they could be content playing less than 100 minutes for the whole year. But if you want your third stringers to be playable if needed, then they need more minutes.

Do you want a potential recruit in the 10-15 range nationally to rule out Uconn because they think on paper they might be the 9th or 10th best player, they see Geno using 8, and they fear they will get Pulido minutes even in a blowout? I don't think getting players like Mir, Amari or Piath for the end of the bench is sustainable they way Geno uses the end of the bench.
 
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I junderstand what Geno is doing. Get the starting 5 going first. Then get the next group of subs going. He has the big East season to get the rest of the bench going. It is not unusual for it to take more than a few games for the subs to get productive. Many of them have never played at college speed before! Patience!

Plus it'e the top 8 who need the experience against teams like SCar. The end of the bench won't play in the FF.
 

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