Geno on KO

[businesslawyer]

Does he get credit for that? Of course. But the reality is that I prize consistent excellence above national titles. Missing the tournament two years in a row is unacceptable at UConn. It can never be allowed to be acceptable. It didn't happen, but came closer than it should have. I never thought he should be anywhere close to losing his job, but I thought that the team had under-performed their talent, which was obvious in the close losses and late collapses.

Overall I think he's exactly the guy we need, and I think he's still learning and growing into the job.

The consistency that Jim Calhoun produced from 1990 through 2006 will not be reproduced any time soon -- with ever increasing parity and the one and done rule, it is just not possible. Other than possibly Kentucky, it is simply harder to be a true top ten or top twenty team year after year than it used to be. Just ask Florida. Or North Carolina. Or Syracuse. Or Stamford.

It was not just an unfortunate blip that UConn was less consistent from 2007 to JC's departure -- it was the new reality of college basketball. And that is even before you accept the disadvantages KO started with due to the NCAA penalties we were dealing with and the conference realignment mess.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The consistency that Jim Calhoun produced from 1990 through 2006 will not be reproduced any time soon -- with ever increasing parity and the one and done rule, it is just not possible. Other than possibly Kentucky, it is simply harder to be a true top ten or top twenty team year after year than it used to be. Just ask Florida. Or North Carolina. Or Syracuse. Or Stamford.

It was not just an unfortunate blip that UConn was less consistent from 2007 to JC's departure -- it was the new reality of college basketball. And that is even before you accept the disadvantages KO started with due to the NCAA penalties we were dealing with and the conference realignment mess.

There will be down years. Kansas has made the NCAAs 26 years in a row though. Very few of the "elite" teams have back to back down years. JC struggled with some NCAA/sanction induced stuff as well. But this team is in, and looks quite strong next year. I don't see another obvious "miss" year looming based on the players. I have little doubt that Kevin expects to make the tournament every year.

 

[tykurez]

There will be down years. Kansas has made the NCAAs 26 years in a row though. Very few of the "elite" teams have back to back down years. JC struggled with some NCAA/sanction induced stuff as well. But this team is in, and looks quite strong next year. I don't see another obvious "miss" year looming based on the players. I have little doubt that Kevin expects to make the tournament every year.

I think I know how you will probably answer this, but I will ask it anyway. Being that you're both a UConn and Kansas fan, which history would you rather have? UConn with 4 championships and Kansas with 3, but Kansas just a staple of consistency in terms of getting to the tournament.

I hate the down years as much as anyone else. March Madness is the best time of year and it royally sucks when UConn is not involved. But I am always on the side of UConn in that question. Probably a biased opinion. I think it would be interesting to ask a college basketball nut who is not a fan of either program.

 

[noeynox]

Geno makes the mistake so many make in his position, which is to speak like all the fans speak with the same voice. Of course thats not true, and its actually lazy to even think that way. Most fans didn't want KO out, and to criticize him is not to "turn on him". Its just passion, sometime irrational, sure, but not too often here anyway. The same passion that makes us scream at the television, and sit in the same "lucky" seats and wear the same "lucky" shirts; but the same passion that has made Geno and KO very rich men. Geno really shouldn't complain, whether he speaks for KO or himself.

I understand this as well. Some coaches just want fans to be mindless droids that show up and cheer no matter what. I once heard Paterno say he wants boosters money but not their two cents, Kind of really says where coaches come from. My only point is KO has had tremendous success in a short period of time. He will get out coached sometimes like all coaches do. He seems to be a good post season basketball coach, I'll take that all day over gaudy regular season records.

 

[Inyatkin]

I don't get the criticism of Ollie as looking less than invested or passive on the bench. Sometimes he looks like a wild man. I trust him enough to think he knows when different tactics are called for. Calhoun would sometimes get that giant grin on his face when he was mad, and people would say "Why is he happy, we're getting killed out there!"

 

[UConnDad]

Fortunately, for a coach that has trouble with lay ups, KO was able to hit a 60 ft. buzzer beater!

 

[tzznandrew]

The consistency that Jim Calhoun produced from 1990 through 2006 will not be reproduced any time soon -- with ever increasing parity and the one and done rule, it is just not possible. Other than possibly Kentucky, it is simply harder to be a true top ten or top twenty team year after year than it used to be. Just ask Florida. Or North Carolina. Or Syracuse. Or Stamford.

It was not just an unfortunate blip that UConn was less consistent from 2007 to JC's departure -- it was the new reality of college basketball. And that is even before you accept the disadvantages KO started with due to the NCAA penalties we were dealing with and the conference realignment mess.

I generally agree, although there are plenty of examples beyond Kentucky for pretty consistent success.

The flipside to your point here is that with talent spread out, good coaches become more important. In the mid-90s, coaches matter, but 3-4 year talent could win out. See Harrick, or Tubby winning titles. But it's no surprise that a coach like Brad Stevens or Gregg Marshall have had good success. K has had a late resurgence, too, and JC went to 2 Final Fours in his last 4 years too.

I think KO's tournament success is telling.

 

[CL82]

Wow, Geno reads the Boneyard? Cool.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

The way KO coached in the AAC tourney proves the criticism correct in a way. It shows he's had it in him and we were right to expect better. Not saying that he needs to give it everything he's got on the sidelines every game. But he went from sitting on his hands with zero emotion all season back to running up and down cheering the team on, getting into his defensive stance. switching up the d, actually calling sets to try to go to a hot hand on offense,etc. aka the guy we've all come to love. He was not that guy during most of this season.


As fans I don't think it's wrong to expect a little of that during the season.

 

[Inyatkin]

The way KO coached in the AAC tourney proves the criticism correct in a way. It shows he's had it in him and we were right to expect better. Not saying that he needs to give it everything he's got on the sidelines every game. But he went from sitting on his hands with zero emotion all season back to running up and down cheering the team on, getting into his defensive stance. switching up the d, actually calling sets to try to go to a hot hand on offense,etc. aka the guy we've all come to love. He was not that guy during most of this season.


As fans I don't think it's wrong to expect a little of that during the season.

You're assuming he doesn't know what he's doing. Maybe he makes the calculation that going full-on all season would have his guys burned out by March. Maybe he's wrong on that, who knows. But I respect him enough to think he has a strategy, and knows what he's doing.

 

[junglehusky]

You're assuming he doesn't know what he's doing. Maybe he makes the calculation that going full-on all season would have his guys burned out by March. Maybe he's wrong on that, who knows. But I respect him enough to think he has a strategy, and knows what he's doing.

And it should go without saying, but I guess it doesn't, that even if a coach recruits well with a decent amount of talent, and even if the coach runs practices well and has a solid game plan and in-game coaching, that doesn't guarantee the team will win every game. Are there thing KO could address before the next season, particularly in adjusting? Sure. Should we disappointed that this year's squad dropped some crucial games that would have improved our seed? I guess, but maybe not more than 2 or 3 games. I will confess to having inflated expectations before the first game of the season, that Miller and Gibbs would integrate right away and returning players would improve. It was an uneven year. Even with good pieces it's hard these days to avoid that unevenness, as businesslawyer pointed out.

 

[krinklecut]

It's all about expectations. Fans of this team have expectations that are way too high right now. Yes, we are UConn, and that means something, we expect to win. But to expect a HOF coach at the caliber of Jim Calhoun in his fourth year coaching is absurd. It's going to take him time to settle into coaching. People argue that Calhoun, even at the start of his time in Storrs, was better than Ollie. But Calhoun also had years of experience before he ever got here. Ollie is coaching for the first time. It's likely going to take him a decade to define who he is as a coach. Give it time. It was never going to be easy.

 

[J187Money]

I never turned on KO, but I definitely soured on the team over the past few weeks, with the Houston game being the low point for me. Seemed to be a low point for KO, too. I love him, but when I see him now saying words to the effect of "People gave up on us, they said we had no heart," I want to remind him that he was one of those saying exactly that just a few games ago himself.

He was saying it to motivate his team. We say it to be d%cks.

 

[J187Money]

Wasn't that... you? Not "people"?

And the reason your hypothetical was irritating was because we never actually were in that much danger of missing the tournament. Regardless of what Lunardi and Palm thought. So this was just scaremongering and pessimism.

In hindsight, sure. If we knew Tulsa was getting in we wouldn't have worried at all. But I was pretty sure we would have been out if we lost to Cincy. Turns out I was wrong, but it wasn't irrational to believe that.

 

[dennismenace]

Jacobs: Triangulation........victim, perpetrator.......rescuer. Create controversy and then then assign everyone their place. The creation of strife.
Same old same old.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

You're assuming he doesn't know what he's doing. Maybe he makes the calculation that going full-on all season would have his guys burned out by March. Maybe he's wrong on that, who knows. But I respect him enough to think he has a strategy, and knows what he's doing.

I literally said that to my roommate 50 times during the AAC tourney. "It's like we don't even try during the regular season and save everything we can (offensive/ defensive plays, all of our energy and emotion) for the postseason It's clearly night and day. And this motivating and emotional KO is what know of. He wasn't that guy during the season.

That said we paid for it (not getting burned out) by getting a 9 seed and the number one overall seed in the second round. Clearly KO saves some stuff for the postseason and I think that's great. But I'd prefer somewhere in between what we had his year. Don't have to give it his all every game. But maybe give it a little something. He got our coached and showed zero emotion a lot of game this year.

 

[J187Money]

It's all about expectations. Fans of this team have expectations that are way too high right now. Yes, we are UConn, and that means something, we expect to win. But to expect a HOF coach at the caliber of Jim Calhoun in his fourth year coaching is absurd. It's going to take him time to settle into coaching. People argue that Calhoun, even at the start of his time in Storrs, was better than Ollie. But Calhoun also had years of experience before he ever got here. Ollie is coaching for the first time. It's likely going to take him a decade to define who he is as a coach. Give it time. It was never going to be easy.

I don't think they are generally too high. We had some bad losses. 11-7 in the AAC? Nobody expected 18-0. But 14-4/13-5 and we are a) in the mix to win the conference and b) easily in the NCAA tournament, hopefully with a reasonable seed. I think that's what most of us expect.

We were 21-10 regular season. 24 or 25 wins is where this team should have been. We did underachieve. Looks like we are on track now, but to think that we shouldn't expect 24/25 wins out of this team in the regular season with Ollie coaching? That's being too soft.

I wasn't calling for Ollie's head, but I also think he struggled at times this year and he needs to get better. I grade him about a B- this year for the regular season. AAC Tournament was great. Let's see if we keep it rolling. A loss to Colorado would be bad. A loss to Kansas if it is close would be understandable. If he gets us into the second weekend I'll be impressed.

BUT, we might have had an easier path had we not dropped 3-4 winnable games. That's on Ollie, and the team.

 

[krinklecut]

I don't think they are generally too high. We had some bad losses. 11-7 in the AAC? Nobody expected 18-0. But 14-4/13-5 and we are a) in the mix to win the conference and b) easily in the NCAA tournament, hopefully with a reasonable seed. I think that's what most of us expect.

We were 21-10 regular season. 24 or 25 wins is where this team should have been. We did underachieve. Looks like we are on track now, but to think that we shouldn't expect 24/25 wins out of this team in the regular season with Ollie coaching? That's being too soft.

I wasn't calling for Ollie's head, but I also think he struggled at times this year and he needs to get better. I grade him about a B- this year for the regular season. AAC Tournament was great. Let's see if we keep it rolling. A loss to Colorado would be bad. A loss to Kansas if it is close would be understandable. If he gets us into the second weekend I'll be impressed.

BUT, we might have had an easier path had we not dropped 3-4 winnable games. That's on Ollie, and the team.

Agreed, we did under achieve. But I feel like there was an expectation that this team would never under achieve. We have a young coach and a patched together team. An underachieving team wasn't so far out of the realm of possibility that people would seriously consider KO getting fired, or even being on the hot seat.

 

[Inyatkin]

I literally said that to my roommate 50 times during the AAC tourney. "It's like we don't even try during the regular season and save everything we can (offensive/ defensive plays, all of our energy and emotion) for the postseason It's clearly night and day. And this motivating and emotional KO is what know of. He wasn't that guy during the season.

That said we paid for it (not getting burned out) by getting a 9 seed and the number one overall seed in the second round. Clearly KO saves some stuff for the postseason and I think that's great. But I'd prefer somewhere in between what we had his year. Don't have to give it his all every game. But maybe give it a little something. He got our coached and showed zero emotion a lot of game this year.

You're misunderstanding. I'm saying we don't know what he's doing, but that we should respect him enough to believe that he has a strategy, and he's not just mailing it in until March. Unless you're there every day, and we aren't, you can't know what's really going on.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think I know how you will probably answer this, but I will ask it anyway. Being that you're both a UConn and Kansas fan, which history would you rather have? UConn with 4 championships and Kansas with 3, but Kansas just a staple of consistency in terms of getting to the tournament.

I hate the down years as much as anyone else. March Madness is the best time of year and it royally sucks when UConn is not involved. But I am always on the side of UConn in that question. Probably a biased opinion. I think it would be interesting to ask a college basketball nut who is not a fan of either program.

This came up in another thread and I am the acknowledged oddball that prefers consistency over occasional titles. It's not just basketball either. Maybe it comes from being a Red Sox fan, but I came to appreciate that they were nearly always good (2nd best record to the Yankees from 1972-2004 despite never winning the WS). Imagine being a Marlins fan? Two WS titles and horrible almost every other season. I couldn't stand that.

What I want to see most is my team competing for the championship year after year after year. But it's a balance...they do need to win it all some of the time. No 80+ year droughts.

 

[Obrero]

Speaking for myself: The Houston loss at home was kind of a tipping point, which is to say it pissed me off royally, and lowered my expectations at the time for the remainder of this season. That said, I never posted, on this site or anywhere else, that this Uconn team lacks heart (even though the thought may have crossed my mind). Yet I heard Ollie say that to the press about three weeks ago. So thanks Geno, but I can do without being told by you how and how not to be a fan of my team.

 

[auror]

Specific coaching failures this season that Ollie could be rightly criticized for:

1) Not playing more up-tempo during the season. We were 298th / 351 in pace (252nd longest offensive possession length) this season. We often essentially play 4 guards and a center who wins the team's annual race. Inexcusable. If we had a really efficient half-court offense, sure, slow it down. But it's obvious to everyone we don't.

2) We're leading the nation in FT%*, but we never draw fouls. He hasn't taught the guards how to draw contact or go into the body. We don't have a single player in the top 500 of the country in fouls drawn per 40 minutes. Hamilton should be going to the line on like 1/4 of our possessions. This would take us from a mediocre offense to a good offense just like that.

3) 2-pt jumpers. Hamilton and Adams love these. They need to go away and Ollie needs to ram this down their throats. Take a 3 or go to the rim and get fouled. These are almost always bad shots. There's a reason Hamilton is shooting 42% from 2-pt land despite being 6'7.

4) We need to defend the 3-pt arc better. We do a great job of denying in the paint and having shot blocking and all that, but 3-pt shots can be highly efficient, and when you take away 2s but give opponents good 3's, that's not always a great trade-off.

5) Shonn Miller is our most effective scorer. This became obvious by at least the halfway point in the season. He still only takes the 3rd most shots when he's on the court. Get him the ball!

*I will praise him for teaching foul shooting. Hamilton's improvement in this regard is incredible and this has now become a pattern that is certainly attributable to him.

 

[ctchamps]

It wasn't just the thread about whether KO should go if the team missed an NCAA tournament two years in a row. How about the threads where posters wanted to remove assistant coaches after one bad recruiting season last year (totally ignoring the NCAA sanctions) or this year during the struggles. How about all the criticism of coach Miller. No one considered that every big not named Shonn and PN started playing bb late in their lives and PN was a recruit from the sanction period.

Now we're attacking Geno because he's sticking up for a fellow coach. We should be applauding him for taking this stand. It's a welcome relief to know the coaches have a good relationship and that they are willing to defend one another.

But NOOOOOOOO! How dare a prominent individual expose our whining!! After all we help pay for his salary and he should be sucking up to us. Doesn't he know we have every right to throw players and coaches under the bus and call them soft all the while ignoring our own inabilities to be stoic. That's the fan's right! We're entitled! We have the perfect right to insist others do as we say and not as we do. We're a bunch of crying whiny apologistas. We need others to win for us. It's the losers mentality.


We have no intention of shutting up and eating the mojo sandwiches because we are a bunch of whiny commies.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Specific coaching failures this season that Ollie could be rightly criticized for:

1) Not playing more up-tempo during the season. We were 298th / 351 in pace (252nd longest offensive possession length) this season. We often essentially play 4 guards and a center who wins the team's annual race. Inexcusable. If we had a really efficient half-court offense, sure, slow it down. But it's obvious to everyone we don't.

2) We're leading the nation in FT%*, but we never draw fouls. He hasn't taught the guards how to draw contact or go into the body. We don't have a single player in the top 500 of the country in fouls drawn per 40 minutes. Hamilton should be going to the line on like 1/4 of our possessions. This would take us from a mediocre offense to a good offense just like that.

3) 2-pt jumpers. Hamilton and Adams love these. They need to go away and Ollie needs to ram this down their throats. Take a 3 or go to the rim and get fouled. These are almost always bad shots. There's a reason Hamilton is shooting 42% from 2-pt land despite being 6'7.

4) We need to defend the 3-pt arc better. We do a great job of denying in the paint and having shot blocking and all that, but 3-pt shots can be highly efficient, and when you take away 2s but give opponents good 3's, that's not always a great trade-off.

5) Shonn Miller is our most effective scorer. This became obvious by at least the halfway point in the season. He still only takes the 3rd most shots when he's on the court. Get him the ball!

*I will praise him for teaching foul shooting. Hamilton's improvement in this regard is incredible and this has now become a pattern that is certainly attributable to him.

Great points. I agree 100% about forcing the pace and getting to the line more. The offense was much crisper during the AAC Tourney, hoping they can maintain that pace and efficiency.

 

[Palatine]

I'm with KO win or tie.