Geno on Gabby Williams

[UConnCat]

I tend to think her 'bulked' up body is due to weight gained while waiting on the knee to heel. Not being able to train will do that to you. Only now trying to play herself back into shape and condition.

That's not accurate. Below a picture from a day ago which hardly looks like "weight gain" from not playing. Looks to me like she spent time lifting weights. She is a legit 5-11 (and Geno agrees, once saying that she is close to 6-0).

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I tend to think her 'bulked' up body is due to weight gained while waiting on the knee to heel. Not being able to train will do that to you. Only now trying to play herself back into shape and condition.

Classic BoneYard Baloney...please educate all of us on how you determined this.

 

[Fiftyish]

Nykesha is certainly a nice comparison. She was darned good.

If Meyers hadn't already locked up this weeks "Understatement of the Week" this one certainly would have won it.

 

[UConnCat]

I think because of Gabby's jumping ability she may play a lot at small forward!

Geno spoke of Gabby not necessarily playing guard:

Edwards, Ekmark and Williams might be classified as guards. But Auriemma would not rule out that they would be able to help UConn inside like the 5-11 Faris and the 6-foot Mosqueda-Lewis.

“It’s hard to say. When we played last year I think we played with Kelly and Kaleena and I don’t know that they came out of (high school) as anything but guards,’’ Auriemma said. “So the fact that Courtney is 6-feet tall and Gabby Williams is 6-feet tall, or close to it. That’s two out of the three, with Sadie being a little bit smaller. There’s no reason why they couldn’t do for us exactly what Kelly did and what Kaleena’s doing. The way we put our players out there it might be a mismatch, but I always like that mismatch in our favor and it’s worked pretty well for us over the years.’’

 

[sawxfan23]

I tend to think her 'bulked' up body is due to weight gained while waiting on the knee to heel. Not being able to train will do that to you. Only now trying to play herself back into shape and condition.

Listen, I am one "to tell it like it is" and not "sugarcoat" things almost to a fault but in this instance I completely disagree with you. She is a 18 yr old kid that could eat pizza all day everyday and never leave the couch and still not gain a pound. I think that the intense work she put in during rehab is the reason why she has gained some muscle mass.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Listen, I am one "to tell it like it is" and not "sugarcoat" things almost to a fault but in this instance I completely disagree with you. She is a 18 yr old kid that could eat pizza all day everyday and never leave the couch and still not gain a pound. I think that the intense work she put in during rehab is the reason why she has gained some muscle mass.

Now that in an interesting point…let’s name names. Who are the recalcitrant sugarcoaters here at The BoneYard? Why do they tell it like it isn’t? I for one am fed up with the constant barrage of high carbohydrate posts, and indeed, posters.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Brett McCormack likens her to Maya. That may be over the top, but I really like it.

Maybe no so over the top if we consider her as a Maya in a guard's shoes. Gabby is a great athlete with outstanding leaping ability. While it's way to early to tell, she just might approach Maya's Uconn basketball achievements.[/quote]
Oh Lord, let that be true.

I simply marveled whenever I saw Maya play.

 

[hoophuskee]

Is she 5'9 or 5'11?

If she is 5'9 - the chance of her being a successful "3" is "limited" unless our offense becomes a hyper fastbreak "3" during her time which someday it could possibly be.

As for her "leaping ability" for a guard - it's not that important unless of course she can take jump shots from 3 and can knock them down while also having quickness to beat her opponenet off the dribble. Maybe this is the comparison being made with Maya? Regarding her ability for "jump-shooting" in a stationary manner which Maya did effortlessly?

Anyhow if Geno likes her then I'm darn happy. I beleive guard/perimeter play is huge. Once Stweie and Tuck go, it doesn't look like there are any top 10 bigs from the Northeast. You do need some balance to be elite while winning titles. You can maybe win a title without it.

I'm hopeful at least one player of Chong/Gabby/Kia/Sadie can become super elite which makes players such as Courtney extremely dangerous etc. Then we can get away with not having a super post. Then it may not matter if we have a 5'9 sf if she is actually 5'9 as the poster Godfather had said.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Is she 5'9 or 5'11?

If she is 5'9 - the chance of her being a successful "3" is "limited" unless our offense becomes a hyper fastbreak "3" during her time which someday it could possibly be.

As for her "leaping ability" for a guard - it's not that important unless of course she can take jump shots from 3 and can knock them down while also having quickness to beat her opponenet off the dribble. Maybe this is the comparison being made with Maya? Regarding her ability for "jump-shooting" in a stationary manner which Maya did effortlessly?

Anyhow if Geno likes her then I'm darn happy. I beleive guard/perimeter play is huge. Once Stweie and Tuck go, it doesn't look like there are any top 10 bigs from the Northeast. You do need some balance to be elite while winning titles. You can maybe win a title without it.

I'm hopeful at least one player of Chong/Gabby/Kia/Sadie can become super elite which makes players such as Courtney extremely dangerous etc. Then we can get away with not having a super post. Then it may not matter if we have a 5'9 sf if she is actually 5'9 as the poster Godfather had said.

Gabby is at least 5'11". I think Sadie Edwards is about 5'9". Kia Nurse is at least 5'11" and Courtney Ekmark is about 6'0".

 

[Icebear]

Barb Turner was successful as a 5'10" 3 /4 positions

 

[MilfordHusky]

Barb Turner was successful as a 5'10" 3/4

Yes, she certainly was. I think the BTX even played a lot at the 4 position.

 

[VAMike23]

Exceptional hops are a tremendous asset for players at *any and all positions* on the floor, full stop.

 

[ThisJustIn]

She is a 18 yr old kid that could eat pizza all day everyday and never leave the couch and still not gain a pound.

hate her
TJI, who inherited her dad's, not her mom's. metabolism....

 

[hoophuskee]

Barb Turner was successful as a 5'10" 3 /4 positions

Barb Turner was susccesful at the 4 with DT. Then had a good NCAA tourney. Never was close to All-Amercian I think?

And I beleivve the follwoing which I said prior:

I'm hopeful at least one player of Chong/Gabby/Kia/Sadie can become super elite which makes players such as Courtney extremely dangerous etc. Then we can get away with not having a super post. Then it may not matter if we have a 5'9 sf if she is actually 5'9 as the poster Godfather had said.

A player like DT "allowed" our Huskies ot be elite while winning a title. Without that, imo "we need to play at home and hit a mircale shot" to beat Ga. And as staed before -

You do need some balance to be elite while winning titles.

 

[CAHUSKY]

That's not accurate. Below a picture from a day ago which hardly looks like "weight gain" from not playing. Looks to me like she spent time lifting weights. She is a legit 5-11 (and Geno agrees, once saying that she is close to 6-0).

The other girl in this pic is the one who dropped 14 threes and scored 50 in one of their games.

 

[Icebear]

Barb Turner was successful at the 4 with DT. Then had a good NCAA tourney. Never was close to All-Amercian I think?

And I believe the following which I said prior:

I'm hopeful at least one player of Chong/Gabby/Kia/Sadie can become super elite which makes players such as Courtney extremely dangerous etc. Then we can get away with not having a super post. Then it may not matter if we have a 5'9 sf if she is actually 5'9 as the poster Godfather had said.

A player like DT "allowed" our Huskies ot be elite while winning a title. Without that, imo "we need to play at home and hit a mircale shot" to beat Ga. And as staed before -

You do need some balance to be elite while winning titles.

You are talking about an athlete with world class hops who as a underclassman in high school finished 5th in the Olympic tryouts. I don't think being 5'9" which Geno says is wrong is a great limiting factor on her. Geno says she IS 5'11". I'll take his word.

 

[hoophuskee]

Exceptional hops are a tremendous asset for players at *any and all positions* on the floor, full stop.

I disagree big time. It's an "asset" but not neccesarily "tremendous" especially at the guard position. Our best guards we ever had -

Sue Bird, DT, Nykesha Sales, Jen Rizzoti, Shea Ralph, Renee Montgomery, Bria Hartley and Kelly Faris - imo none had "hops." Hops for a guard not as esential imo. Tiffany had hops. But what other great guards that UCONN had, had "hops?"

 

[hoophuskee]

You are talking about an athlete with world class hops who as a underclassman in high school finished 5th in the Olympic tryouts. I don't think being 5'9" which Geno says is wrong is a great limiting factor on her. Geno says she IS 5'11". I'll take his word.

Okay I just asked the question. But we know sometimes we have to take some of what Geno says as a grain of salt. I was really hoping Godfather would respond. I tend to go with what UCONNCAT and MILFORDHUSKY say. So for now "she is 5'11." Anyhow, next year at this time if she was closer to 5'9 than 5'11 but Gabby showed super promise or even if she didn't but others did, we wouldn't care what Geno said about her being 5'9 or 5'11, right? If she is a natural two that can play some 3" no one would care what was said before.

World class hops if she were 5'9 means not so much when it comes to guards imo. IMO more important criteria for a guard at 5'9 are having quickness, decision making, ball handling and being able to shoot. If she is 5'11 then hops is more of a bonus.

There was some super player - I believe she came from Miss Sate or something- she is now in WNBA. She was this freak athlete. Her hops got her in the WNBA and I think she is a sf. Without a shot - how good is she really?

Too bad Mel Thomas wasn't there going into NCAA tourney her sr year. Until then teams with quickness and leaping ability gave her problems. But if she was healthy and played with Maya - her ability to shoot . . .

 

[VAMike23]

I disagree big time. It's an "asset" but not neccesarily "tremendous" especially at the guard position. Our best guards we ever had -

Sue Bird, DT, Nykesha Sales, Jen Rizzoti, Shea Ralph, Renee Montgomery, Bria Hartley and Kelly Faris - imo none had "hops." Hops for a guard not as esential imo. Tiffany had hops. But what other great guards that UCONN had, had "hops?"

Kelly had good hops, better than Tiff.

But that's beside the point. The point is that exceptional hops are a friggin' HUUUGE advantage for anyone who steps onto the court, guards included. First of all, guards do go to the rim. They don't just shoot 3s. Guards also shoot the ball inside the arc. When taller players are in the vicinity, it helps to be shooting from a higher point. Also, I have -- occasionally --- seen UCONN guards going up for rebounds. Strange, I know. But they do it! If you take a player and give her a mid 30"s vertical, you have just given her something like a 10" - 12" leaping advantage over most any other player on the court. Even Maya's vertical was under 30" . 28"-29" or so.

Unless you want the guards to just run away, and never go to the rim, never go up for a rebound, or never rise up for a jumper in traffic, then yes, exceptional hops are something that any player would kill to have, and for good reason.

Your point implied a different question, which was "Are exceptional hops necessary [or sufficient] to make someone an elite guard?" Of course the answer is no, as you stated. Bird certainly doesn't elevate a lot. DT actually has decent lift, IMO. Bria no, Jen not sure, MoJeff yes! But this is a different point entirely. It doesn't carry much weight because almost nobody in the women's game has a 30"+ vertical. Besides Brianna Turner (next year at ND) and possibly Brittney Sykes at Syracuse, I don't know of anyone except maybe Diamond D who was a 30" vertical , let alone mid-30s like Gabby. I just happened to watch Syracuse play last night - unlike other players her size, Sykes is able to drive and elevate big time through traffic, floating in the air to get free for a jumper and snatching rebounds. Does it make her a great player? No. Is it a tremendous asset for her, in and of itself? Most definitely.

I'm guessing the player you were thinking about in your post above is probably Armintie (Price) Herrington, whose vertical is also well over 30". She went to Ole Miss and plays for the Dream. She's 5'9" and would not be in the "W" without that vertical.

 

[UConnCat]

One need only watch ND's Jewell Loyd to see what an advantage good "hops" can be to a guard. She makes tremendous plays around the rim, is ND's second leading rebounder and leads ND in offensive rebounds.

 

[Scotter]

I suspect whether she is 5'9" or 5'11" Gabby will play almost exclusively as a forward and is likely to spend quite a bit of the time at the 4, especially offensively as that's the best position to take advantage of her skill set and her athleticism. Athletically she has the ability to do things to a degree like Maya or a Kalana who curiously hasn't been mentioned in this thread about a vertical jumping ability and players that might really only be 5'9".

 

[hoophuskee]

Kelly had good hops, better than Tiff.
I don’t think so.

The point is that exceptional hops are a friggin' HUUUGE advantage for anyone who steps onto the court, guards included. First of all, guards do go to the rim. They don't just shoot 3s.
Guards need a good handle and quick first step to get to the rim. That imo is more important. Without those, you don’t get to the rim too much. Secondly if she were 5’9, big players in the paint negate your ability to finish more than 5'11. Any elite team with athletes and size can negate “the hops” in a half-court set of a 5’9 player using her hops in wcbb imo.
Guards also shoot the ball inside the arc. When taller players are in the vicinity, it helps to be shooting from a higher point.
If you’re 5’9 and at sf, chances are you aren’t going to be a good rebounding team vs the elites unless you are stacked at pf and c positions which we may not be after Stewie and Tuck leave. Therefore she had better be more than just a 2pt scorer to make up for the nights we get crushed on the boards if she is the sf.
Also, I have -- occasionally --- seen UCONN guards going up for rebounds. Strange, I know. But they do it! If you take a 5'11" ish - 6'0" player and give her a mid 30"s vertical,
My 1st post asked about being 5’9 or 5’11 for a reason. At 5’11 her hops means more than at 5’9. Guards only get so many rebounds though. And 5’9 players only get so many rebounds vs. top tier teams on average. The highest jumpers don’t get rebounds. DT was a sensational rebounder. It didn’t matter what guard could jump higher. Same with Ralph etc. But yes she can be a good rebounder at times.
Unless you want the guards to just run away, and never go to the rim, never go up for a rebound, or never rise in traffic for a jumper, then yes, exceptional hops are something that any player would kill to have, and for good reason.
No. But who says you need to have significant hops to get to the rim or grab rebounds? You can get to the rim like Shea and Sue did. DT was just “decent” as you mentioned with hops. But I gave you examples of UCONN all-time great players that didn’t have the great hops. They would have competed against some that had more and how often were the others successful?

DT actually has decent lift, IMO. Bria no, Jen not sure,
Decent lift is not “exceptional lift.” My point was you don’t need exceptional. How often has it beaten us? DT is the greatest player I have seen from college to WNBA. For example I never saw Swoopes play in college and very little in WNBA. DT didn’t need it. Sue didn’t need it. Sales didn’t need it. Renee didn’t need it. Jen didn’t need it. Shea didn’t need it. It’s not needed to get to the rim for a guard or grab tough rebounds etc.
I'm guessing the player you were thinking about in your post above is probably Armintie (Price) Herrington, whose vertical is also well over 30". She went to Ole Miss and plays for the Dream. She's 5'9" and would not be in the "W" without that vertical.
Yes Price! Thank you! Yes she wouldn’t be in WNBA without her athleticism/hops. But without a shot, how good is she? Imagine if she was 5’11 or 6’0? Her arms would probably be a bit longer. Her body a bit more filled out and she’d probably be a bit more of a danger in the paint. At 5’9 how much of a danger is she? There are too many long arms and big bodies that just need to be raised and just get up an inch or so -which can affect her shot in the paint because she is so small.
If Gabby were 5’9 she’d have to be ultra quick and have terrific ball-handling for her to score against the elite teams in the paint on any consistent level.
As of right now in wcbb, imo when 5’9 players go in the paint vs elite teams and try to use their hops to score on a consistent level, their fg% drops. Too much size that contests the smaller player. UCINN is known as an efficeitn offesnive team. Thus the hops - no big deal.

I hope you don't take our disagreementsn wrong. I enjoy this. I have to go shortly anyways. Nice passing by time talking away with my UCONN brethren. BTW I'm interested in your opinion and others - how do you think Alana Beard have been different if she came to UCONN to play alongside DT or would she? And how do you think Ashley ballte would have turned out if she went to a school that wanted her to be a scorer? I'm not looking for a right or wrong answer. No arguement from me on these. Thanks.

 

[Scotter]

Kelly had good hops, better than Tiff.
I don’t think so.

Kelly in terms of pure vertical jump did have better hops than Tiff, which was a big part of why Kelly was such a highly rated volleyball recruit in high school as well.

As for Price. She's a starter on a WNBA team in 5 of her 7 season including on teams that have gone to the WNBA finals twice. She's done this at 5'9" even though she has never developed a 3-point shot. A this point Price is far more an example of the transcendent power of elite athleticism than a example of a player who couldn't over come her height.

 

[hoophuskee]

One need only watch ND's Jewell Loyd to see what an advantage good "hops" can be to a guard. She makes tremendous plays around the rim, is ND's second leading rebounder and leads ND in offensive rebounds.

How has she done against elite teams or very good teams? Last year look at the top teams she played against. Baylor, UCONN, Tenn, L'ville, and Duke.


By far her best game was early vs Baylor. But that's that's the game she shot 4-5 from three and had 24 points. That's my point. She's 5'10 - better than 5'9 but still limited. She has to hit 3's or she needs big help in the post. But she'll get that soon, won't she?

Anyhow, she had 9 games vs above mentioned teams only one other game did she shoot close to 50% and that was one game vs UCONN in which she was 6-12 and shot 2-2 from 3 and had 16 points. She shot 6-15 vs Duke while going 1-2 from three. Six for 15 - okay vs Duke. The other 6 games she was combined 20-61 while going 2-7 from three, while averaging 9.5 ppg.

This year her best opponent was Penn State she was 6-19.

Her game goes to the next level when she can knock down the three imo. Otherwise how good will she be? Isn't Notre Dame going to have a strong inside game over the next few years? Lloyd is shooting 30% from three. If you were to defend, won't you give her the three until she can prove it if you had some fear of the interior? And if you were Muffett, is it better to pound the ball into the paint when their young top big players mature or have Lloyd try to score with her athleticism in the paint vs the top tier teams?

 

[hoophuskee]

Kelly in terms of pure vertical jump did have better hops than Tiff, which was a big part of why Kelly was such a highly rated volleyball recruit in high school as well.

As for Price. She's a starter on a WNBA team in 5 of her 7 season including on teams that have gone to the WNBA finals twice. She's done this at 5'9" even though she has never developed a 3-point shot. A this point Price is far more an example of the transcendent power of elite athleticism than a example of a player who couldn't over come her height.

I don't agree about hops becuase of volleyball.
Secondly when you watch Atalanta --why do they lose? Can't shoot right? Great college scorer, right?

Her career average is 6.6 points per game. look at her career stats in college I got from
http://www.wnba.com/playerfile/armintie_herrington/bio.html
COLLEGE CAREER: Played at Mississippi under former Dream assistant coach Carol Ross … Led Ole Miss to the Elite Eight as a senior … Led the NCAA and SEC in steals (3.7 spg) … Second leading scorer in the SEC (19.1 ppg) … Kodak/WBCA All-American selection in 2007 … SEC Defensive Player of the Year in 2005 and 2007, becoming first player in conference history to win the award twice … Only the second player in NCAA history to record over 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 400 assists and 400 steals

And you referecne her as "transcendent" in a manner in WNBA? She can't score. She's not a top option. Not even close. She's not an all-star - not even close. She was a priemiere scorer in college. So as I said, if you have a 5'9 sf- you have you play a certain way which is hyperfastbreak. Bigs negate her game and force her to become a defensive specialist. Her offense becuase she can't shoot and she is only 5'9 can't translate due to height of her opponents.