Geno is the GOAT but I don't get it

[The deacon]

It's the Final Four. There's not exactly time to "help her through this" by giving her extra PT, unless that extra PT will definitely help the team win.

29% 3PT shooter this year.

Christyn is 5 of 23 from three for the four tournament games. Not everyone is at her best at all times from the arc.

 

[cohenzone]

Its a forum and every coach in every sport is not perfect. Is Pete Caroll a great coach but decided to pass on one yard line in SB and not give the ball to the beast. Even an undefeated Pats team lost SB to Giants, anything they could have done differently? Can we discuss as fans? Or since every coach in every sport is more qualified than any of us we shouldnt wonder, ask and discuss why they make the decisons they are making?

We all know, and i think trust, Geno's ability to win a chip. I guess many folks really admire CD and know we would not have a #2 seed or have played in Bridgeport if not for a fearless freshman that stepped up as much as an starter when PB and Azzi were out.

Of course people have opinions. Critiquing decisions in games arguably the greatest coach in history makes in victories is kinda funny.

 

[Conndog]

She isn't shooting as well from deep, but she certainly can. Don't know if she is rushing it, or if it's confidence, or just a slump that she needs to play through. Shooters need to shoot, so I would still play her. Besides, she isn't only an outside shooter- she has a much more diverse game. She likes to go inside on mismatches and post-up against guards who usually are much smaller.

Most people would agree that Christyn isn't as good an outside shooter as Paige or Azzi, and Christyn has had games and stretches where the outside shot has been shaky. But, she has other qualities such as driving to the basket and playing tough D, that make most fans want her to play a lot. They aren't saying she should only play limited minutes because her outside shot is missing at times. Why then make the same argument for Caroline?

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

IMHO with Dorka hurt and out for the rest of the Final 4, UCONN needs a replacement, why not Caroline Ducharme?
She is 6'2" and plays pretty good defense and has shown this season she can dominate offensively!
It would be the perfect spot for her! And the main scorers, Paige, Azzi, and Christyn get their majority of players minutes!
I love Nika's style both offensively as well as defensively but the problem is as good as Nika can be she is not a high point scorer!
The Final 4 begs for the biggest offensive scorers being on the court the majority of the time, so Nika sits! EW has problems scoring also but Mama E brings something intangible to the mix.
If Dorka was healthy Caroline Ducharme's time would be limited but that's all changed.
If Geno went to Caroline Ducharme and said we need the middle of the season Caroline Ducharme, Carolyn would rise to the occasion, and shine brightly, she's done it before! She loves a challenge, here's a huge one!

 

[Mdoggie]

Yeah. I spent a long time being frugal and responsible. It was time to be irresponsible. Life is too short. I am not retired yet but I am the same age as my father was when he died.

Enjoy life

 

[hoophuskee]

It’s just perplexing to go from the DePaul game, where Geno said postgame he trusted her to make a shot more than anybody else, to #9 off the bench with no room for error. I hate to say it, but Paige has come back, and some of the stand around and watch Paige has returned with her. She was absolutely incredible last game, but if a handful of those tough shots don’t fall, it’s a completely different story. I’d like to see Caroline get opportunities, because she has proven she is capable, and even proven to be rather clutch. I actually do think she could be rather useful against Stanford. But I’ve kind of accepted the fact that I’ll have to wait until next year to get to enjoy watching her again.

No it's not perplexing. It's perplexing how there is this thought that just because some of you like CD that Geno should be obligated to play her. There's an assumption just because you play her more minutes then the team will automatically win anyway. For example, NC State played Jada Boyd off the bench for quite a few minutes leading up to the end of regulation and she was -4 in the plus / minus category. Maybe if the coach played his starters more then they win in regulation. So we blame the winner for not playing the player we want to see and ignore possibly the team that is playing more of the bench that lost and is going home?

As far as watching Paige. Well when we watch Paige like this we go to Final Fours and beat number 3 ranked NC State type teams and last year we beat South Carolina and Baylor. That's bad? Are you suggesting that the team was better when it was led by CD? If not, then why are you complaining about ball movement when UCONN wins? And how could there be lack of ball movement when Azzi and CWill score as much as they did.

And in terms of "if Paige didn't hit her shots. . . " What is the relevance of that? If all those losses in Overtime UCONN had in the past - maybe UCONN has 3-5 more titles using the point you are making about Paige.

 

[hoophuskee]

I guess you are not alone then.

Maybe what coco is trying to tell you is that you are never going to get it if you think it's Geno's job to make everyone better especially in the NCAA Tourney? His job is to win. As a fan you have favorite players and styles of play and can focus too much on those players and styles. As a result in this case you seemed to have glossed over other players. You didn't mention how Paige has gotten better with extra minutes, how Azzi has gotten better. How AE has gotten better. How CWill has gotten better. How Evina has played so well off the bench overall. How overall this year Liv has gotten better from her prior 3 years. UCONN just beat the number 3 team in the country. Some of the UCONN players had to get better for this to happen. And as a result, they achieved their team goal and aren't as interested in the minute allocation of every player goal than a fan might otherwise be.

And they don’t get as better if you don’t play them a certain number of minutes. You are just haphazardly assuming giving the players you like more minutes will result in a victory. The point I made about Jada Boyd (the bench player) and NC State was that during regulation she was minus 4 in the plus-minus-minutes-stat. Well suppose they gave a few minutes to the starter instead? Maybe they win and UCONN loses, right? So why are you assuming that CD - a freshman - was going to shine when for example you see her blow to easy layups vs UCF? You knew she would automatically play well after that?

Sure CW also missed some layups too but are you suggesting that freshmen in NCAA Tourney conditions will always play as well as they did during the reg, season? And if it is CD vs Azzi who do you feel is more reliable? If the answer is Azzi then why wouldn't you want more passing type of players to get the ball to Azzi? In regards to CW, another poster mentioned CWill also missed layups. But as we know if we are going to look at the past to justify the resume of CD in some manner, then CWill certainly has a much better resume if you look at last year, right? She performed vs much much better vs tougher competition, didn’t she?

If the goal is to make everyone better then why not play every player an equal amount of minutes? Anyhow, what Geno is telling you in a way is that it isn’t fair to Paige, Azzi and CWill for example that he is to take away minutes from those players that he feels are superior for the style he wants to coach. For example he is telling you that CWill is a better defender than CD. Maybe even a better passer. He is definitely telling you that Evina is a better passer. The question is—are you going "to listen" that the 11 time National Championship coach and 14 time consecutive Final Fours coach is having some trepidation that one of his freshmen doesn’t provide the passing and./or defense vs 4 year and 5 year seniors that helped the team go to the FF last year? Are you going “to listen” that if he feels he has superior players he will play them mega minutes (just as every championship wcbb does including Stanford from last year with their pg and Lexie Hull)?

If you are wrong you shrug your shoulders and are sad as a fan if UCONN loses but plays the players you want. But if Geno makes the move you want and they lose and let’s say before FF then he let down every player and coach on his team. But he didn’t let them down if he is coaching to a style he nearly always coaches to and they win (ie Final Four.).

 

[Greg]

Is it bad that Muhl played 8 good minutes and UConn won?
More players are simply available now, so PT has been adjusted.
Usually fans wait until after a team loses before complaining about how much PT their favored players get.
And don't forget that UConn could need to play again on Sunday with short rest.

The problem is too many awesome players. He has to play te five that will win the game.

 

[ucbart]

If match-ups are an issue this year won’t they be an issue next year too?

Not as she matures as a player and thinks the game differently.

 

[cohenzone]

Not as she matures as a player and thinks the game differently.

Not only that, but the team will be far less crowded with players who can play both guard and forward who are the most experienced players on the team. I’m not that worried about Caroline having a key role going forward.

 

[ballerfan]

IMHO with Dorka hurt and out for the rest of the Final 4, UCONN needs a replacement, why not Caroline Ducharme?
She is 6'2" and plays pretty good defense and has shown this season she can dominate offensively!
It would be the perfect spot for her! And the main scorers, Paige, Azzi, and Christyn get their majority of players minutes!
I love Nika's style both offensively as well as defensively but the problem is as good as Nika can be she is not a high point scorer!
The Final 4 begs for the biggest offensive scorers being on the court the majority of the time, so Nika sits! EW has problems scoring also but Mama E brings something intangible to the mix.
If Dorka was healthy Caroline Ducharme's time would be limited but that's all changed.
If Geno went to Caroline Ducharme and said we need the middle of the season Caroline Ducharme, Carolyn would rise to the occasion, and shine brightly, she's done it before! She loves a challenge, here's a huge one!

I agree with some of what you’re saying. With Dorka out, Caroline suddenly becomes a lot more important. If you haven’t already, take a look at Stanford’s roster. They’re really tall.

Stanford, I think, will try to get Liv and AE in foul trouble early. As much as I would enjoy watching Amari or Piath out on the floor, they are a huge risk. So the next tallest player is Caroline. And Caroline is a good shot blocker.

On the other hand, Caroline has not played a lot of minutes against a team as good as Stanford. She’s a freshman, and it’s hard to know how she’d respond. I don’t think it’s a given that she would become better if Geno said he needed her to be. But she might be the best option. We’ll see what Geno decides to do.

 

[JBK]

Right like what match ups? She is 6'2" and scores inside / out, rebounds, defends and has steals. How does she not fit in? For 10 mins at least.

Agree. He likes playing 4 guards at times and should consider Caroline vs Westbrook. Evina for some reason, does not like to penetrate and shoot much, especially after a miss.
When Nika and Westbrook play together, it gets very difficult for the other 3. With Caroline - she can be very dangerous.

 

[SCyankee]

No. That's what some are saying about Caroline and it is an excuse. I believe she is just fine health wise. What is missing from her game is minutes played and Geno has not been willing to give her those minutes at this time. She showed, when given the opportunity, that she could produce as much offensively as anyone else on the team. However, Geno is going with the players he thinks will be best for the team, as he should. But there have been times when the players on the floor were struggling and he kept them out there. Level of play will not go down when Caroline is out there, she has proven that. See ME Husky Fan's post above. That is the best probable answer, imo.

I apologize if my comment is covered later in this thread. Caroline is fearless on the court. Her anxiety is the quick hook by Geno. When he had to play her due to injuries she excelled. Now back to the quick hook.

 

[GoUconn7961]

It would be interesting to know how many Caroline and/or Nika threads we've had this season - along with the "why doesn't Geno play Caroline, Nika, Amari, Piath more?"

 

[Centerstream]

It would be interesting to know how many Caroline and/or Nika threads we've had this season - along with the "why doesn't Geno play Caroline, Nika, Amari, Piath more?"

Just wait until the "slower" months arrive (July - November)...

 

[hoophuskee]

Its a forum and every coach in every sport is not perfect. Is Pete Caroll a great coach but decided to pass on one yard line in SB and not give the ball to the beast. Even an undefeated Pats team lost SB to Giants, anything they could have done differently? Can we discuss as fans? Or since every coach in every sport is more qualified than any of us we shouldnt wonder, ask and discuss why they make the decisons they are making?

We all know, and i think trust, Geno's ability to win a chip. I guess many folks really admire CD and know we would not have a #2 seed or have played in Bridgeport if not for a fearless freshman that stepped up as much as an starter when PB and Azzi were out.

It's possible this game Geno plays CD more. Absolutely.

But as you said this is a discussion forum. And reasons have been provided why CD shouldn't have played much on this forum. And it just happens to coincide with the HOF coach not playing her. And with one of the reasons some of us have favored Geno's decision, it coincides with every other championship coach the past recent 5 years. So as you say it's a discussion forum - therefore it's also okay for some of us to counter those arguments from those that felt Geno has made a mistake not playing CD.

 

[Ferrarifan]

Its a forum and every coach in every sport is not perfect. Is Pete Caroll a great coach but decided to pass on one yard line in SB and not give the ball to the beast. Even an undefeated Pats team lost SB to Giants, anything they could have done differently? Can we discuss as fans? Or since every coach in every sport is more qualified than any of us we shouldnt wonder, ask and discuss why they make the decisons they are making?

We all know, and i think trust, Geno's ability to win a chip. I guess many folks really admire CD and know we would not have a #2 seed or have played in Bridgeport if not for a fearless freshman that stepped up as much as an starter when PB and Azzi were out.

Well said. These forums are just an electronic bar. I still remember when people would discuss sports over a beer. They would disagree but I never heard anyone say stuff like, "we shouldn't be talking about this". It seems that some people hate talking about certain stuff so much that they refuse to listen to what other people are actually saying. Yes, Geno is the best but it isn't "funny" to critique him on one or two things. He isn't infallible. He isn't even the Pope.

Some people are saying it is too late to try and fix Caroline and get mid-season Caroline back. Well, that may be true. If it is then the failure to get her back on track before now may prove to be fatal. I guess that begs the question, do we need her back to win the championship? If the answer is no then you don't play her. If the answer is yes, you play her and do whatever you can think of to get her back on track. I am not interested in losing a close game. I would rather take the risk of losing big if it is necessary to have a chance to win. And to those who think this is about "liking" a player, it isn't. Like Geno, my mentality has always been to prioritize winning. This is all just an opinion.

 

[Ferrarifan]

So as you say it's a discussion forum - therefore it's also okay for some of us to counter those arguments from those that felt Geno has made a mistake not playing CD.

No disagreement. It is expected that people will have a difference in opinion and that is a good thing. What I think is truly "funny" is that some believe you should never express an opinion if it is counter to the coach's decision. If an opinion is wrong, it is simply just wrong. It isn't automatically wrong because it is counter to what the coach did. Discuss/debate/argue the opinion itself. The mentality of "worst post ever because it disagrees with what Geno/Calhoun/Hurley did" is kinda bizarre. But these ARE strange times...

 

[hoophuskee]

No disagreement. It is expected that people will have a difference in opinion and that is a good thing. What I think is truly "funny" is that some believe you should never express an opinion if it is counter to the coach's decision. If an opinion is wrong, it is simply just wrong. It isn't automatically wrong because it is counter to what the coach did. Discuss/debate/argue the opinion itself. The mentality of "worst post ever because it disagrees with what Geno/Calhoun/Hurley did" is kinda bizarre. But these ARE strange times...

I'm not sure that is the case though. I think it's the way you present it. It's one thing to say is that "I'd like to see . . . " vs "Geno is making a mistake . . . "

At least to me it appears that you are coming on very strong here that Geno is making a mistake. If that is the case, then after a close win, why shouldn't you expect from any random particular poster that you are automatically wrong? Your point can't be proven that it would have been better. But the point of Geno and his usage of the bench can. Because he wins.

Several years ago before season began I felt Stevens should start and have Dangerfield come off the bench. Well UCONN went 38-0 and wound up losing on a buzzer beater to ND. Do I kill Geno for going 38-0 and losing on a buzzer beater?

 

[Ferrarifan]

I'm not sure that is the case though. I think it's the way you present it. It's one thing to say is that "I'd like to see . . . " vs "Geno is making a mistake . . . "

At least to me it appears that you are coming on very strong here that Geno is making a mistake. If that is the case, then after a close win, why shouldn't you expect from any random particular poster that you are automatically wrong? Your point can't be proven that it would have been better. But the point of Geno and his usage of the bench can. Because he wins.

Several years ago before season began I felt Stevens should start and have Dangerfield come off the bench. Well UCONN went 38-0 and wound up losing on a buzzer beater to ND. Do I kill Geno for going 38-0 and losing on a buzzer beater?

Well, the refs are why we lost that game but that is another topic for another day. Really sore subject for me. I felt it was criminal.

Geno has been wrong in the past. Ask him. He will tell you. He is the GOAT because that is incredibly rare. But you can't say that an opinion is automatically wrong just because he is the GOAT. I mean, you can but that is just lazy thinking in my opinion. Some people have given some good solid reasons why they think he has been right on this topic. I like that. The only issue I have is with people who say that every post that disagrees with Geno is the "worst post ever" or something similar. I mean, jeez, it is just an opinion.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I agree with some of what you’re saying. With Dorka out, Caroline suddenly becomes a lot more important. If you haven’t already, take a look at Stanford’s roster. They’re really tall.

Stanford, I think, will try to get Liv and AE in foul trouble early. As much as I would enjoy watching Amari or Piath out on the floor, they are a huge risk. So the next tallest player is Caroline. And Caroline is a good shot blocker.

On the other hand, Caroline has not played a lot of minutes against a team as good as Stanford. She’s a freshman, and it’s hard to know how she’d respond. I don’t think it’s a given that she would become better if Geno said he needed her to be. But she might be the best option. We’ll see what Geno decides to do.

ballerfan- - -Paige, Azzi, and even Geno has said that Caroline Ducharme has always risen to the challenge given!
After watching her dominate when the injuries got out of hand I really feel she'll rise to the challenge if if it is presented!

 

[hoophuskee]

Well, the refs are why we lost that game but that is another topic for another day. Really sore subject for me. I felt it was criminal.

Geno has been wrong in the past. Ask him. He will tell you. He is the GOAT because that is incredibly rare. But you can't say that an opinion is automatically wrong just because he is the GOAT. I mean, you can but that is just lazy thinking in my opinion. Some people have given some good solid reasons why they think he has been right on this topic. I like that. The only issue I have is with people who say that every post that disagrees with Geno is the "worst post ever" or something similar. I mean, jeez, it is just an opinion.

But if he wins - and coaches to a style that he usually does, then how is he wrong if that style that he has preference to has been proven to be the best ever in wcbb history?

And then it leads to--- at what point do you "blast him? That was the point of my Stevens vs Dangerfield comment.

 

[Centerstream]

No disagreement. It is expected that people will have a difference in opinion and that is a good thing. What I think is truly "funny" is that some believe you should never express an opinion if it is counter to the coach's decision. If an opinion is wrong, it is simply just wrong. It isn't automatically wrong because it is counter to what the coach did. Discuss/debate/argue the opinion itself. The mentality of "worst post ever because it disagrees with what Geno/Calhoun/Hurley did" is kinda bizarre. But these ARE strange times...

An opinion can not be wrong because it is not a statement of fact.
I may have the opinion that a 427 V8 Corvette is the best muscle car ever. It is not a fact but something I believe so I can't be wrong. And no one is going to make me change my opinion.

 

[Los24]

It's possible this game Geno plays CD more. Absolutely.

But as you said this is a discussion forum. And reasons have been provided why CD shouldn't have played much on this forum. And it just happens to coincide with the HOF coach not playing her. And with one of the reasons some of us have favored Geno's decision, it coincides with every other championship coach the past recent 5 years. So as you say it's a discussion forum - therefore it's also okay for some of us to counter those arguments from those that felt Geno has made a mistake not playing CD.

I agree. The comment is was for those that make an argument or sarcastic comment when folks question the coach or do not agree with his decisions. 100% cool with anyone that thinks CD should be played more, as is or not at all.

 

[Urshurak]

I know he tends to shorten the bench. Most of the time I understand why. Ducharme scored 28 points in a game this year and had a game winning bucket. He has called Nika the heart of the team and, five times, she lead the team in assists.

Against NC State, Muhl only played 8 minutes despite getting 2 rebounds a steal and hitting her only shot in those 8 minutes. And she had zero fouls. And we had a hard time stopping NC State from scoring. And Ducharme only played 5 minutes.

I have seen nothing from Muhl that suggests she is off her game. And if Ducharme is sitting because she is struggling, why is she struggling? The kid went from no confidence to massive confidence to no confidence again? If that is true, Geno and the staff need to ask themselves what they did wrong because that shouldn't happen. And, in my coaching days, whenever I saw it happen, it was usually the coach's fault. The guy is a genius but even a genius is wrong sometimes. We need that depth and only Geno can make it happen.

Love this post! Hysterical!