Geno and UConn and NIL

[JSB60]

There’s some confusion about NIL and endorsements… and it may be mine. Currently, as I understand it, schools don’t pay NIL money to students, though this may change soon and probably should. Currently, collectives of well-meaning alums and boosters arrange a package nominally tied to endorsement deals for local businesses. The school itself can also be one of these businesses in the sense that they sell branded merch and have to compensate students for this. As far as I know, that’s the limit on direct school involvement in any pay package.

Paige and Azzi on their own had negotiated endorsement deals with national businesses, like Nike and Gatorade and Chipotle and Bose. When Paige said she didn’t need to have a piece of the school’s NIL package, she probably meant her national endorsements dwarfed what the school could arrange through its collective. I don’t know if she is compensated for the many “5” jerseys we see everywhere, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she even let UConn keep that as well.

Paige was already on magazine covers in high school. The initial NIL question concerned kids like her. Could she be disqualified by the NCAA for making money while a student on the basis of her name, image or likeness, which she unquestionably owns. There were no legal grounds to justify preventing a kid from selling her own property. But soon enough, booster organizations saw an opening to slip back into the picture and fund athletes more or less directly. This has made the picture rather murkier.

We all talk rather loosely about schools paying kids NIL, and this is not quite accurate. The schools obviously arrange for booster collectives to put lucrative packages together for their athletes. This may be a distinction without a difference, but I don’t think any school is allocating endowment funds to pay NIL money.

Personally, I think the situation would be improved if the schools simply did become the direct source of NIL money. They could raise the money from boosters, of course, and it could be somehow tied to some value-calculation. But it might be morally clarifying to do away with the current fictional facade to mask the real situation. And undoubtedly the entire situation would change college athletics in ways none of us would welcome if this were to happen. But the current situation is so rife with dishonesty as not to merit preserving.

My limited understanding is that is exactly right. Without the original NIL ruling, Paige could not have her endorsements and maintain NCAA eligibility, so technically, they’re NIL, her profiting off her own name, image, and likeness. But Geno is referring to NIL as money from the collectives that the program can allocate.

 

[reelfan]

As a taxpayer funded and maintained institution UCONN there needs to be open and transparent visibility relative to the sources of collective money and how and where it is distributed.

 

[BBallF]

There’s some confusion about NIL and endorsements… and it may be mine. Currently, as I understand it, schools don’t pay NIL money to students, though this may change soon and probably should. Currently, collectives of well-meaning alums and boosters arrange a package nominally tied to endorsement deals for local businesses. The school itself can also be one of these businesses in the sense that they sell branded merch and have to compensate students for this. As far as I know, that’s the limit on direct school involvement in any pay package.

Paige and Azzi on their own had negotiated endorsement deals with national businesses, like Nike and Gatorade and Chipotle and Bose. When Paige said she didn’t need to have a piece of the school’s NIL package, she probably meant her national endorsements dwarfed what the school could arrange through its collective. I don’t know if she is compensated for the many “5” jerseys we see everywhere, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she even let UConn keep that as well.

Paige was already on magazine covers in high school. The initial NIL question concerned kids like her. Could she be disqualified by the NCAA for making money while a student on the basis of her name, image or likeness, which she unquestionably owns. There were no legal grounds to justify preventing a kid from selling her own property. But soon enough, booster organizations saw an opening to slip back into the picture and fund athletes more or less directly. This has made the picture rather murkier.

We all talk rather loosely about schools paying kids NIL, and this is not quite accurate. The schools obviously arrange for booster collectives to put lucrative packages together for their athletes. This may be a distinction without a difference, but I don’t think any school is allocating endowment funds to pay NIL money.

Personally, I think the situation would be improved if the schools simply did become the direct source of NIL money. They could raise the money from boosters, of course, and it could be somehow tied to some value-calculation. But it might be morally clarifying to do away with the current fictional facade to mask the real situation. And undoubtedly the entire situation would change college athletics in ways none of us would welcome if this were to happen. But the current situation is so rife with dishonesty as not to merit preserving.

There is currently pending a settlement of anti-trust claims against the NCAA and a 2.7 billion dollar payment to be spread out over athletes past and current going back to 2016. The Power 5 conferences also have an agreement where they can use school revenue to pay athletes directly. The only thing that can solve this is federal legislation with an anti-trust exemption so it can be regulated with salary caps, contracts with buy outs, limitations on rosters and number of times you can transfer, and the like. Otherwise, it's the Wild West and the football schools will remain the top sports schools across the board except for certain exceptions like UCONN. How can any mid major compete with SEC football money for example? I remember listening to an NCAA Commissioner in the beginning of NIL spinning this whole system as being good for the mid majors and smaller schools. It was just utter sophistry and has proven to create a serious imbalance in all sports, especially basketball. 14 teams from the SEC made the men's NCAA this year. Go back in time and look and maybe in great year they had 5, usually 2 or 3. Why? Follow the money.

 

[azfan]

As a taxpayer funded and maintained institution UCONN there needs to be open and transparent visibility relative to the sources of collective money and how and where it is distributed.

Yes. True for all publicly funded institutions. And unfortunately that will never ever ever happen.

 

[Ozimoto]

And I think UConn will only remain where they are in the pecking order (especially for women's basketball) until Geno and Chris retire. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to maintain the program status once the builders are gone.

 

[HuskyNan]

As a taxpayer funded and maintained institution UCONN there needs to be open and transparent visibility relative to the sources of collective money and how and where it is distributed.

Yes. True for all publicly funded institutions. And unfortunately that will never ever ever happen.

There is no taxpayer money in the collective and UConn doesn’t manage the it, booster Mark D’Amelio does. There is a lot of info at the link below

Home | Name, Image, and Likeness at UConn

Name, Image, Likeness at UConnNIL @ UConn As the landscape of college athletics continues to change, UConn has embraced the Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) ...

nil.uconnhuskies.com

 

[azfan]

There is no taxpayer money in the collective and UConn doesn’t manage the it, booster Mark D’Amelio does. There is a lot of info at the link below

Home | Name, Image, and Likeness at UConn

Name, Image, Likeness at UConnNIL @ UConn As the landscape of college athletics continues to change, UConn has embraced the Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) ...

nil.uconnhuskies.com

The lack of transparency however as indicated by the authors of the nil report on a separate thread remains a troubling issue. The institution benefits directly from the work of these third party collectives and as indicated Connecticut was one of the states that passed legislation that attempts to block transparency and reporting of these sons of money.

 

[YKCornelius]

And I think UConn will only remain where they are in the pecking order (especially for women's basketball) until Geno and Chris retire. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to maintain the program status once the builders are gone.

Ozimoto, while I agree that UConn will remain where they are in the pecking order while Geno and CD are still leading the way, I am no longer inclined to think that the program will hit a down turn once they retire. Rather, I think this year's championship cemented the notion that it is not so much about Geno, as it is about the program culture that he and CD built.

I will go one step further. I think it is quite probable that the way that $$ are being offered for 1-2 years of hired talent, that most of the other WCBB quality programs will continue to fall short in consistently bringing together Final Four contenders. There are some that will - South Carolina, Iowa, Duke and possibly Texas - because these schools, like UConn, focus on a building a "team first" chemistry. But the majority of the other top programs - i.e., the ones trying to buy an All-American squad, will have to be content with Sweet Sixteen appearances, vying for Elite Eight, and an occasional Final Four. Meanwhile, UConn, S Carolina, Iowa, Duke, and Texas will continue to attract top HS and international freshman talent, and deliberately mold them into high performing teams that will be FF competitive every year.

At least until the other programs come to the realization you can't buy National Championships. You have to build and develop them.

Armed with this thought, I think it is quite plausible that the other UConn coaches can continue with the same similar "team first" concept which they have been exposed to and inculcated by Geno and CD over the past few decades. The exceptional culture is there, the successful history is there, the superb assistant coaching is there (as evidenced by the game scouts), the devoted fan base (sell-out crowds and frenetic student body) is there, and top programs' interest in competing against the UConn mystique will still be there.

If just one of the current assistant coaches has learned how to identify HS and international talent to fit the program culture the way Geno has, then I think UConn WBB will continue to sustain greatness. In light of the current environment of throwing bags of $$ to individual players in order to attain immediate results, I am more than very optimistic about the future post-Geno environment. I am confident.

 

[flowerpet22]

N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.

It's not. It's an unintended consequence, however, of the NCAA and universities' insistence that revenue-generating athletes aren't also employees entitled to a cut. NIL is a byproduct of a Supreme Court case that allowed athletes to profit over use of their image. It's still side-stepping the original problem and claim by some athletes: that they deserve to be treated like revenue-generating workers (versus now, pitchpeople for products or products with their images on them.)

 

[HuskyNan]

N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.

The NCAA fought NIL as hard as it could but eventually folded under pressure. The NCAA is NOT responsible for NIL

NCAA to let schools offer NIL before enrollment

The NCAA is dropping its rule that prohibited athletes from negotiating the terms of NIL payments until after they enrolled in school.

www.espn.com

 

[huskyblooz]

I believe Geno is targeting international players cause he doesn't have to pay them NIL.

I think he just loves the international game . Players are more versatile.

 

[1974yankees]

I believe Geno is targeting international players cause he doesn't have to pay them NIL.

NIL has ruined the game in my opinion. So has the "transfer portal".....This goes for all college sports and especially football....

They are not really "amateurs" anymore when they are getting paid to play.....I just read somewhere where that Arch Manning of Texas (who was a backup QB for his first two years) is the highest paid NIL athlete at $6.5 million....

They are not "student athletes" anymore as far as I am concerned either. They are basically pro's now....

I am with Geno on this...It's a shame that money has ruined college athletics.... If someone argues that these athletes make the schools a ton of money, I would counter with the free tuition should be good enough.

A four year tuition at Uconn for out of staters is about $253, 656...

As a graduate from of Uconn myself, I don't remember anyone paying my way...

Just my opinions on this matter..

 

[CTBballfan243]

I think he just loves the international game . Players are more versatile.

Hopefully Geno continues to get International players like Paige, Azzi, Strong, Kk, and Shade. USF also loves to target international players, That must be why USF wins so many championships LoL

 

[visitingcock]

N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.

No. It was NOT created by the NCAA. It was forced down the throat of the NCAA by the courts,

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I wonder if that's why I never see Paige in local ad campaigns, but I do see the rest of the team all the time. There's a couple of billboards on 95 in Bridgeport with KK and Ashlynn.

I wonder if it may have more to do with avoiding dilution of brand?

 

[Bone Dog]

A four year tuition at Uconn for out of staters is about $253, 656...

In this context, that’s just an accounting fiction. A body in a seat in a classroom is the only reality here. The scholarship doesn’t cost the university any more if it’s an out-of-state student-athlete. It’s only money the school pays to itself. It’s real cost is the minimum the university is willing to charge any student to sit in that seat.

 

[1974yankees]

In this context, that’s just an accounting fiction. A body in a seat in a classroom is the only reality here. The scholarship doesn’t cost the university any more if it’s an out-of-state student-athlete. It’s only money the school pays to itself. It’s real cost is the minimum the university is willing to charge any student to sit in that seat.

My point is that if you are an out of state student going to Uconn for 4 years that would be the estimated costs for tuition/room/board....

I believe every single Uconn player is from out of state..

My other point regarding the free tuition (ie: a full ride scholarship) is that it should be all they get because that is more than enough.

No college player ever deserves to be paid millions and no college player should be allowed to become basically free agents at the end of the year and go to the highest bidder....

Call me old fashion but that is how I feel. I guarantee that Geno feels the same way but has Zero control over the situation.

This is one of the reasons Nick Saben retired too.

 

[Dogdude]

I don't think it works to conflate regular scholarships with athletic ones, at least as far as the revenue-generating sports. My daughters went to private universities at almost no cost, simply due to academic achievements and qualifications. However, they earned nothing for the school while they were there. In actual fact, students cost a university money. Outside of major sports and medical research, departments lose money for a college. The hope is that the college generates superb citizens (and earners) who then return the favor by donating large sums of money. The athletes in the major sports start earning money for the institution from day one, and as is the case at UConn, by elevating the prestige of the university, allowing them to be more selective in their admissions (and fewer need based scholarships awarded.) The closest parallel would be the teaching graduate assistants, who get paid very little for teaching a course curriculum that the "star academic" designed. It's pretty common for graduate students to pick a program based on the fame of the professor in order to hopefully advance their own careers.

 

[Skeets]

My point is that if you are an out of state student going to Uconn for 4 years that would be the estimated costs for tuition/room/board....

I believe every single Uconn player is from out of state..

My other point regarding the free tuition (ie: a full ride scholarship) is that it should be all they get because that is more than enough.

No college player ever deserves to be paid millions and no college player should be allowed to become basically free agents at the end of the year and go to the highest bidder....

Call me old fashion but that is how I feel. I guarantee that Geno feels the same way but has Zero control over the situation.

This is one of the reasons Nick Saben retired too.

I have to pinch myself to ensure that I'm still in the here and now. It's easy to forget that these millionaires are kids who recently turned 18. I don't want to see kids get taken advantage of, but this is nuts. Talk about the pendulum swinging in the other direction...

 

[cancontent]

I believe Geno is targeting international players cause he doesn't have to pay them NIL.

This has been a common talking point recently, but it doesn't make sense in my opinion. Geno focuses on the best available players, regardless of country. Doubt that will ever change.

The other challenge with international players, especially overseas, is that NIL may not be enough to entice a player to come to the US. The pathway to be a pro for top talent is available in various leagues and they can become eligible for the draft sooner. Not to mention the cultural differences as living in North America is very different.

 

[MooseJaw]

Ozimoto, while I agree that UConn will remain where they are in the pecking order while Geno and CD are still leading the way, I am no longer inclined to think that the program will hit a down turn once they retire. Rather, I think this year's championship cemented the notion that it is not so much about Geno, as it is about the program culture that he and CD built.

I will go one step further. I think it is quite probable that the way that $$ are being offered for 1-2 years of hired talent, that most of the other WCBB quality programs will continue to fall short in consistently bringing together Final Four contenders. There are some that will - South Carolina, Iowa, Duke and possibly Texas - because these schools, like UConn, focus on a building a "team first" chemistry. But the majority of the other top programs - i.e., the ones trying to buy an All-American squad, will have to be content with Sweet Sixteen appearances, vying for Elite Eight, and an occasional Final Four. Meanwhile, UConn, S Carolina, Iowa, Duke, and Texas will continue to attract top HS and international freshman talent, and deliberately mold them into high performing teams that will be FF competitive every year.

At least until the other programs come to the realization you can't buy National Championships. You have to build and develop them.

Armed with this thought, I think it is quite plausible that the other UConn coaches can continue with the same similar "team first" concept which they have been exposed to and inculcated by Geno and CD over the past few decades. The exceptional culture is there, the successful history is there, the superb assistant coaching is there (as evidenced by the game scouts), the devoted fan base (sell-out crowds and frenetic student body) is there, and top programs' interest in competing against the UConn mystique will still be there.

If just one of the current assistant coaches has learned how to identify HS and international talent to fit the program culture the way Geno has, then I think UConn WBB will continue to sustain greatness. In light of the current environment of throwing bags of $$ to individual players in order to attain immediate results, I am more than very optimistic about the future post-Geno environment. I am confident.

History says you are wrong. I agree with history, Geno, CD recruit when that stops things change. It may be a shortchange or it may not be so short, but it will be there. It does not matter one bit who the new coach will be. Think about this if you ignore all else. Which coach is the goat of WCBB? Where does the goat coach? OK, so if Geno is the goat and he coaches at UConn when the goat retires will the program be the same? If you are honest, no matter how many ideas, theories, or suppositions you have common sense tells us that things will be different. Will any new coach be the goat? Sorry that ship will have sailed, and whoever comes in will not be Geno, CD or the rest of his staff. I am confident that while we may still be a top team, we will not match the teams of the Geno era, with 12 Nattys and counting.

 

[YKCornelius]

History says you are wrong. I agree with history, Geno, CD recruit when that stops things change. It may be a shortchange or it may not be so short, but it will be there. It does not matter one bit who the new coach will be. Think about this if you ignore all else. Which coach is the goat of WCBB? Where does the goat coach? OK, so if Geno is the goat and he coaches at UConn when the goat retires will the program be the same? If you are honest, no matter how many ideas, theories, or suppositions you have common sense tells us that things will be different. Will any new coach be the goat? Sorry that ship will have sailed, and whoever comes in will not be Geno, CD or the rest of his staff. I am confident that while we may still be a top team, we will not match the teams of the Geno era, with 12 Nattys and counting.

MooseJaw, I appreciate your post and your opinion. Don't take this response as me disagreeing with you disagreeing with me, but rather as me elaborating on my contentions. FWIW, I agree with you (and history) that there will be a change after Geno and CD eventually move on. Nor am I suggesting that Geno/CD are not the best of all-time, or that their level of achievements will ever be approached. They are the GOATs for sure.

I am posturing, however, that the change will likely not be as drastic or as cataclysmic as some might think (or as some UConn opponents might hope). I believe Geno/CD have set the program up for continued very high-level success - i.e., competing annually for Final Fours and NCs. My contention is based on the culture that they have established - one that recent recruits and their families have bought into, and one that has been validated by this year's championship. Player development and team chemistry are both required to sustain greatness. Top talent is not enough.

Thanks to Geno/CD, the ingredients are in place to sustain greatness. The only question is whether the next head coach continues with the same modis operandi, or tries to institute a new way of doing things.

My second posture (which is in-line with the topic of this thread) is that the current NIL/transfer portal environment will underscore the legitimacy of Geno/CD's approach, as contrasted against many top-25 programs who will opt for the path of throwing bags of $$ at 1-2 year mercenaries.

No doubt player agents will disagree with my second posture (as will some parents), as they try to sell the notion that a WCBB program can buy All-American talent every year and quickly mold it into a NC team. However, there is no evidence of that being reality. The only recent program that quickly assembled a team that won a national championship - LSU three years ago (in Mulkey's second year) - hasn't been able to get back to the FF since, despite heavy recruitment via the portal. On the contrary, UConn, South Carolina, and Iowa have made it to multiple Final Fours over the same period with minimal portal recruitment.

Once schools and athletic directors see for themselves the evidence that money can't buy instant championships, the selling point from player agents and chase-the-money parents will shift to "money can buy your WCBB program legitimacy in conference". Basically the same salesmanship/rationale ADs grasp at for hiring new head coaches, but with a much shorter time frame to deliver.

Recent evidence suggests the transfer portal success can elevate a school's position in their conference (re: USC, UCLA, TCU, Kentucky), which is probably the objective of most ADs and a concern for most head coaches. However, that mindset is not a concern for UConn who can focus on pinpointing the right player to fit inside a team culture and chemistry aimed at Final Fours and National Championships.

 

[MooseJaw]

MooseJaw, I appreciate your post and your opinion. Don't take this response as me disagreeing with you disagreeing with me, but rather as me elaborating on my contentions. FWIW, I agree with you (and history) that there will be a change after Geno and CD eventually move on. Nor am I suggesting that Geno/CD are not the best of all-time, or that their level of achievements will ever be approached. They are the GOATs for sure.

I am posturing, however, that the change will likely not be as drastic or as cataclysmic as some might think (or as some UConn opponents might hope). I believe Geno/CD have set the program up for continued very high-level success - i.e., competing annually for Final Fours and NCs. My contention is based on the culture that they have established - one that recent recruits and their families have bought into, and one that has been validated by this year's championship. Player development and team chemistry are both required to sustain greatness. Top talent is not enough.

Thanks to Geno/CD, the ingredients are in place to sustain greatness. The only question is whether the next head coach continues with the same modis operandi, or tries to institute a new way of doing things.

My second posture (which is in-line with the topic of this thread) is that the current NIL/transfer portal environment will underscore the legitimacy of Geno/CD's approach, as contrasted against many top-25 programs who will opt for the path of throwing bags of $$ at 1-2 year mercenaries.

No doubt player agents will disagree with my second posture (as will some parents), as they try to sell the notion that a WCBB program can buy All-American talent every year and quickly mold it into a NC team. However, there is no evidence of that being reality. The only recent program that quickly assembled a team that won a national championship - LSU three years ago (in Mulkey's second year) - hasn't been able to get back to the FF since, despite heavy recruitment via the portal. On the contrary, UConn, South Carolina, and Iowa have made it to multiple Final Fours over the same period with minimal portal recruitment.

Once schools and athletic directors see for themselves the evidence that money can't buy instant championships, the selling point from player agents and chase-the-money parents will shift to "money can buy your WCBB program legitimacy in conference". Basically the same salesmanship/rationale ADs grasp at for hiring new head coaches, but with a much shorter time frame to deliver.

Recent evidence suggests the transfer portal success can elevate a school's position in their conference (re: USC, UCLA, TCU, Kentucky), which is probably the objective of most ADs and a concern for most head coaches. However, that mindset is not a concern for UConn who can focus on pinpointing the right player to fit inside a team culture and chemistry aimed at Final Fours and National Championships.

All said and done, I hope you are right, just understand I won't be betting the mortgage money on it. I just look at the sure thing dynasties in BB. Men's UCLA, women's Tenn. any other you wish. No team has ever continued to be the top dog after a legend has retired, ever.
We are still at the top, the longest run in BB ever, men's or women's. If we find the right coach, we can remain an excellent team. It isn't realistic to expect any hire to match what the Geno years brought us. No coach in history has come close to doing what Geno and staff have accomplished. Right now, there is one coach above all others that I would trust in enough to hand the team to. Shea.

 

[Steelerone]

First of all, while the term "student athlete" is sort of by the board I believe it will still apply to schools like Uconn. There will always be recruits who will want the comfort of being able to form relationships with players other than on the court. And the great players crave that discipline that will enable them to reach their full potential.

 

[1974yankees]

N I L is a monster created by NCAA. Has yet to be tamed.

This "monster" is about to get worse....The NCAA committee just passed new rules on Monday which allows the Universities to pay "student athletes" directly...

After decades of forbidding this practice. They are just waiting on a federal judge to approve everything later this month.

People can Google the story on their own. (I don't want to post links here)