Geno Advocating for Major Change...[merged thread]

[meyers7]

I Do we really think that women miss layups becasue they are not capable of getting the ball up to a 10 foot rim, as if they are so lacking in strength that they cannot muster enough power to get the ball up to 10 feet?

The point is layups shouldn't be based on strength (except leg strength - and yes women have less leg strength than men). It's a layup. Unfortunately for many women it becomes a pushup (arm strength) due to the height. Then it does become a matter of strength (too much or too little). With a lower rim, many more women could perform an actual layup as opposed to a pushup as lots of them tend to do.

Maya had the leg strength (and height) to perform layups. Lots of women do not. They jump but have to push the ball the rest of the way up.

 

[easttexastrash]

I simply cannot get on board with lowering the rims. More people are not going to watch because more layups are made. I would rather see evolution of the female basketball player than lowering of the rim.

Brooklyn Pope misses more point blank shots than any player I've ever seen but it certainly isn't due to lack of strength.

 

[mr006]

They jump but have to push the ball the rest of the way up.

Don't they have to do this on *all* shots? In fact, on other shots, they of course have to not only push it up, but also toward the hoop - 10, 15, 20 or more feet away. There is a reason that the word "lay-up" is sometimes used similarly to the "batting practice fastball"; it's supposed to be relatively easy. Shouldn't be a lot of strength required to push it up maybe 4 feet at most, usually with a good running start.

 

[Icebear]

Don't they have to do this on *all* shots? In fact, on other shots, they of course have to not only push it up, but also toward the hoop - 10, 15, 20 or more feet away. There is a reason that the word "lay-up" is sometimes used similarly to the "batting practice fastball"; it's supposed to be relatively easy. Shouldn't be a lot of strength required to push it up maybe 4 feet at most, usually with a good running start.

Not really a matter of shot strength but more of an exercise of math, geometry and the distance the ball must travel after leaving the hand after release. Men releasing the ball on a lay up are much closer to the rim, often literally inches when not dunking. Women are often 4 to five times the distance far more often.

 

[Waquoit]

I don't agree with Geno about changing WBB to Biddy Basketball. If they players can't shoot well they should practice shooting more. How do you think Ray Allen and Larry Bird got to be such great shooters? Geno's said in the past that girls don't work on their games as much as boys.

 

[meyers7]

Don't they have to do this on *all* shots? In fact, on other shots, they of course have to not only push it up, but also toward the hoop - 10, 15, 20 or more feet away. There is a reason that the word "lay-up" is sometimes used similarly to the "batting practice fastball"; it's supposed to be relatively easy. Shouldn't be a lot of strength required to push it up maybe 4 feet at most, usually with a good running start.

Yes that's the point. It makes a layup like other shots instead of a layup. With a lower rim, some of them, more of them could actually do a layup instead of a pushup.

I'm not advocating for this change. Just stating the mechanics of it.

 

[Alydar]

Most of the missed layups are put back attempts. How many times did we see Tina take 3 shots to make a layup? If a 6' 4" post can't make them its more of "hands of stone" issue than a height issue. IMO most of the missed shots by guards are due to them being out of control on their drives. I'd say they need less practice on spins and other fancy moves and more time practicing shots.

 

[mr006]

I'd guess missing the layups are more a result of not focusing rather than not being able to physically do so. Perhaps being distracted by footsteps behind you, or waiting for the contact. If that's the case (and I've always believed it was), then not sure that lowering the rim is going to do anything. A larger ball? Maybe...

BTW, I'm considering layups as a drive of some length, with perhaps minimal opposition, not the put-backs under the hoop with arms flailing all about. I still don't think those need a lower rim either.

 

[mr006]

Not really a matter of shot strength but more of an exercise of math, geometry and the distance the ball must travel after leaving the hand after release. Men releasing the ball on a lay up are much closer to the rim, often literally inches when not dunking. Women are often 4 to five times the distance far more often.

True, it may be 4 or 5 times the distance but I don't think that's applicable when a matter of inches is involved. "Free throws" are supposed to be relatively easy payback for fouls, and what do they do? Shoot undefended - from 15 *feet* out. So if someone is right under the basket, 8 inches or 40 should not matter. Work on the mathematics and geometry then, I say. How are you gonna make "free throws" (let alone three pointers) if you cannot hit what is essentially a point-blank shot?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I disagree with much of Geno's opinions here and I'm sure he doesn't care that I do.

Sure the game hasn't grown like he and others hoped it would. But I don't agree that making it more like the men's game is the answer. Head up. I don't think the Women's game will attract the same audience as the men's . A large part of the existing women's game fan base is there because it is a different game. Keep it that way and celebrate it.

I'm not sure that you increase the fanbase because your layup percentage increases. Players can't shoot? Work on grassroots programs to develop proper shooting technique early on. I also disagree on the half-court time line. To me that just will add more responsibility and error on the officials. Want more action in a shorter time? Just decrease the shot clock time.

I never take anything that Geno says literally. He runs at the mouth way too often to take his word as gospel. However this is one of those times he seems to show m4 he really doesn't understand a large part of his fan-base and why it is there.

But then again I've been wrong once or trice before.

Geno sounds like he is bored, waiting to get it on with the season. But I think he is spot on about where to hold events. Major cities/venues are just not into the womens' game. Rim??? No way. I am with you on that. It would denigrate the game just when women are demonstrating they have a big game. Clock...definitely.

 

[Icebear]

True, it may be 4 or 5 times the distance but I don't think that's applicable when a matter of inches is involved. "Free throws" are supposed to be relatively easy payback for fouls, and what do they do? Shoot undefended - from 15 *feet* out. So if someone is right under the basket, 8 inches or 40 should not matter. Work on the mathematics and geometry then, I say. How are you gonna make "free throws" (let alone three pointers) if you cannot hit what is essentially a point-blank shot?

Except that there are other factors involved that are impacted by that increased error in minute of angler. Many of the missed lay ups occur at high speed on breakaways and not at drill speed. Others occurs under contact on the boards. Under simple conditions it may not make much difference but under complex game conditions that increased need for precision is likely significant. Lay ups in game conditions are rarely shot under the static conditions at the foul line and are shot from numerous angles, multiple release points, and at multiple speeds. Consider alone the number of times guys simply lay the ball over the rim into the hoop vs women. Women almost always use the board. It adds complexity and further increases the distance traveled, the impact of English, etc.