Game Two: UCFBfan vs. ColoradoUCFan ***Winner: ColoradoUCFan***

[PcketknfNiels]

Having two PGs is ideal; in 2004 I'd say we had a PG and a combo guard, that's pretty close.

In 1999, we had two PGs. In 2011 we played a lot of the game with two PGs (Kemba and Bazz). And, obviously, this year, we had Boat and Bazz, and sometimes Samuel as well.

Either way, you can't get away with having zero true PGs, which UCF is trying to do.

Again, 2004 proves that 2 PG isn't a necessity. Taliek was at best very inconsistent and BG was about as much of a point as Ray ever was. KEA, Kemba, and Bazz (and perhaps even Boat) were exceptional individuals, people who's sheer force of will can't be compared. Taliek on the other hand was nowhere near that level, yet 2004 was so extremely talented everywhere else that it remains our best team.

Point being is that you don't need 2, and even if you only have 1 they don't need to be Bazz or Kemba.

For the record, I picked Colorado, he put together a better overall team. If UCFB had any kind of PG (or even if a better 2nd rounder non PG had fallen to him) I'd probably have voted for him though.

 

[hoophuskee]

Give Rip Hamilton a passing pg and he will flourish. None of the guards he has above make him better/compliment his game as much as they should. Though it is interesting to have Kelly start here. A huge weakness is having just one pg.

Really tight game - could go either way. I went with Donyell's team here.

 

[Matrim55]

Either way, you can't get away with having zero true PGs, which UCF is trying to do.

Earl was definitely a true PG.

 

[hoophuskee]

Earl was definitely a true PG.

IMO he was a scoring pg.

 

[tzznandrew]

Again, 2004 proves that 2 PG isn't a necessity. Taliek was at best very inconsistent and BG was about as much of a point as Ray ever was. KEA, Kemba, and Bazz (and perhaps even Boat) were exceptional individuals, people who's sheer force of will can't be compared. Taliek on the other hand was nowhere near that level, yet 2004 was so extremely talented everywhere else that it remains our best team.

Point being is that you don't need 2, and even if you only have 1 they don't need to be Bazz or Kemba.

For the record, I picked Colorado, he put together a better overall team. If UCFB had any kind of PG (or even if a better 2nd rounder non PG had fallen to him) I'd probably have voted for him though.

Ben Gordon averaged 4.5 assists that year. That's 0.3 less than what Tate George averaged in 1990. I take your general point, but Brown-Goron was much closer to the norm than you're giving them credit for.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Ben Gordon averaged 4.5 assists that year. That's 0.3 less than what Tate George averaged in 1990. I take your general point, but Brown-Goron was much closer to the norm than you're giving them credit for.

Me and you both know that's less a credit to Gordon and more to do with both Taliek and the insane amount of talent to pass to.

 

[tzznandrew]

Me and you both know that's less a credit to Gordon and more to do with both Taliek and the insane amount of talent to pass to.

Lots of other players in UConn history had an insane amount of talent, and didn't average that. AJP didn't, and he was passing to Dyson-Kemba-Adrien-Stanley-Hasheem. Those guys aren't, I'll grant you, Gordon-Okafor-Anderson-Brown-Villanueva...but they're close. And it's not like our 2s averaged that in 2006, when they were stacked.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Lots of other players in UConn history had an insane amount of talent, and didn't average that. AJP didn't, and he was passing to Dyson-Kemba-Adrien-Stanley-Hasheem. Those guys aren't, I'll grant you, Gordon-Okafor-Anderson-Brown-Villanueva...but they're close. And it's not like our 2s averaged that in 2006, when they were stacked.

Uhh, AJP had 5.8 his Jr year, 4.7 his Sr year. Kemba was a frosh, Stanley and Hasheem weren't really major offensive threats, Dyson got injured mid 09...

Want to stop now? I'm starting to feel bad for you bro.

 

[tzznandrew]

Uhh, AJP had 5.8 his Jr year, 4.7 his Sr year. Kemba was a frosh, Stanley and Hasheem weren't really major offensive threats, Dyson got injured mid 09...

Want to stop now? I'm starting to feel bad for you bro.

So, one year AJP averaged significantly more than Ben...and one year he averaged about the same...and I should be embarrassed. Hell, Taliek averaged over 6.5 in 2004...so Ben had to do it with premiere another distributor. And Talike averaged over 4.7 every year.

Also, can we agree to stop arguing about this until it is our turn? We got a long way to go, and people are going to really be annoyed with us.

 

[tzznandrew]

That's a very negligible difference, explained by Taliek having a better crew of guys to pass to than Tate. Pace of play also works against Tate here as more possessions=more chance for TO, which even 1 extra TO every 5 games will skew the ratio.

Your point was that, somehow, Taliek started all these fast breaks for opponents. He didn't. He had more assists per TO than Tate. And pace of play also means there are more opportunities for assists.

I tried to move this to keep from mucking other threads up. I'll stop now, because I guess you can't. Sorry. Regardless, the voters will decide in a few days.

 

[UCFBfan]

I'll be honest. I really struggled between taking Charlie or grabbing Marcus Williams. I thought I'd luck out with getting Taliek or Boatright at end of 4. Unfortunately didnt happen but looking more at Kelley I really felt he was more of a true PG.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll be honest. I really struggled between taking Charlie or grabbing Marcus Williams. I thought I'd luck out with getting Taliek or Boatright at end of 4. Unfortunately didnt happen but looking more at Kelley I really felt he was more of a true PG.

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised Boatright went as fast as he did. I thought he should go fast because of the offense/defense/ballhandling/PG skills, but I didn't know if people would recognize it.

It was easy to wait on a guard, but not a PG.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

So, one year AJP averaged significantly more than Ben...and one year he averaged about the same...and I should be embarrassed. Hell, Taliek averaged over 6.5 in 2004...so Ben had to do it with premiere another distributor. And Talike averaged over 4.7 every year.

Also, can we agree to stop arguing about this until it is our turn? We got a long way to go, and people are going to really be annoyed with us.

Considering you claimed that AJP never did that, yes, you should be embarrassed.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Your point was that, somehow, Taliek started all these fast breaks for opponents. He didn't. He had more assists per TO than Tate. And pace of play also means there are more opportunities for assists.

I tried to move this to keep from mucking other threads up. I'll stop now, because I guess you can't. Sorry. Regardless, the voters will decide in a few days.

You forgot to mention all of Talieks missed shots, you do realize teams can break on a missed shot, right? When you're running fast break, you're also not necessarily directing offense with your PG as much, both because pressing off of missed shots and TO means the first person on your team is more randomized, and finding your PG to initiate defeats the purpose of pushing the ball before the defense can get back and set.

I think you're taking this more personally than it needs to be. Slick announcing of the last word though, that's always classy.

 

[tzznandrew]

I think you're taking this more personally than it needs to be. Slick announcing of the last word though, that's always classy.

Mistook what I meant...I mean in other threads like this, not overall. We can always pick it up elsewhere.

Not taking it personally, I just think we shouldn't be mucking up a thread about UCFB and and ColoradoUConnFan.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Mistook what I meant...I mean in other threads like this, not overall. We can always pick it up elsewhere.

Not taking it personally, I just think we shouldn't be mucking up a thread about UCFB and and ColoradoUConnFan.

It's more respectful for us both to just stop here rather than announce we're done (and then continue to post more)

 

[tzznandrew]

It's more respectful for us both to just stop here rather than announce we're done (and then continue to post more)

I clearly can't stop posting either...so, yeah, it came off douchier than I meant it to.