Gail Goestenkors ready to return to coaching

[DefenseBB]

To this day, I'm still very disappointed Gail didn't work out better at Texas. I can understand bringing Gale Valley with her as one of her assistant coaches; I thought her hiring Micki DeMoss was a homerun hire. Her hiring LaKale Malone from Nebraska was a huge head-scratcher; that hire should have been someone with recruiting connections (high school & club) within the state of Texas. Not sure why no one follows my advice . . .

I know Micki went into the WBB Hall of Fame with CD but I am not convinced she's a difference maker any more. My gosh, look at all the stops she's had since she "resigned" from Kentucky. Where has she stayed and actually contributed to a program improving? Maybe this year with Nell, other than that, all the others were disasters..
Check out all these:

1985–2000	Tennessee (asst.)
2000–2003	Tennessee (assoc. HC)
2003–2007	Kentucky
2007–2010	Texas (asst.)
2010–2012	Tennessee (asst.)
2012–2014	Indiana Fever (asst.)
2014–2016	Louisiana Tech (assoc. HC)
2016–2018	LSU (asst.)
2018–2019	Vanderbilt (offensive analyst)
2019–present	Georgia Tech (chief of staff)

 

[willtalk]

She was a pro assistant in 2014 and 2015, plus has broadcasted games over the last several years. She's always been around the sport and likely still has connections even if she didnt do great at Texas. The AD at Duke gave her zero respect so I wouldnt consider that a red flag.

She's a former NCOY, has coached in 4 Final Fours and 2 title games, and is a Hall of Famer. I cant imagine too many ADs would overlook her if she was seriously interested in their program.

Look, I would like to see her get a coaching gig if only to clear up some of my own ambiguity with respect to her abilities. My posts are only to play devils advocate to counter the prevalent fan perspectives that not only is she a hidden gem but that any AD would be foolish not to hire her.

My major point was that she has been out of coaching and the WCBB landscape has undergone a huge change since then. Being a Pro assistant is meaningless in respect to WCBB. Michael Cooper was a Pro coach who won championships with the Sparks. He later coached at the USC trojans and turned out to be a horrible college coach. Gottleib is presently a NBA assistant and was not a good college coach. Does her being an assistant mean she is not a good coach? No, but it certainly does not translate to her being a good one either.

Being a broadcaster could help someone to get a better perspective on coaching and I am sure that it has certainly helped her in that respect. But it also does not help her in respect to maintaining connections that are essential for a D1 coach to have. He stint at Texas showed how important the right connections are in recruiting. You also need connections in hiring assistants and filling out your staff.

As to her conflict with the AD at Duke, many of the Duke WCBB posters took her side in that dispute. The reason being that she took the side of elevating the Duke Women's Basketball program. However, the AD might have thought that the expenditure was not worth it. With the exception of WCBB fans, right or wrong, that is not an unreasonable perspective for an AD. That is his job. If she disagreed with him she had the option to go else where- which she did.

The fact that this disagreement became public is what an AD might have a problem with. In fact, it resulted in so much stink that the animosity carried over and stayed long after she and the AD had left. The negativity created still lingers until today. It is professional to keep issues "in house" and not attempt to use public opinion to force your point. Who is wrong and who is right should not have any effect on propriety. The coaches and the AD need to be on the same page with respect to their programs, at least in public.

 

[bballnut90]

Look, I would like to see her get a coaching gig if only to clear up some of my own ambiguity with respect to her abilities. My posts are only to play devils advocate to counter the prevalent fan perspectives that not only is she a hidden gem but that any AD would be foolish not to hire her.

My major point was that she has been out of coaching and the WCBB landscape has undergone a huge change since then. Being a Pro assistant is meaningless in respect to WCBB. Michael Cooper was a Pro coach who won championships with the Sparks. He later coached at the USC trojans and turned out to be a horrible college coach. Gottleib is presently a NBA assistant and was not a good college coach. Does her being an assistant mean she is not a good coach? No, but it certainly does not translate to her being a good one either.

Being a broadcaster could help someone to get a better perspective on coaching and I am sure that it has certainly helped her in that respect. But it also does not help her in respect to maintaining connections that are essential for a D1 coach to have. He stint at Texas showed how important the right connections are in recruiting. You also need connections in hiring assistants and filling out your staff.

As to her conflict with the AD at Duke, many of the Duke WCBB posters took her side in that dispute. The reason being that she took the side of elevating the Duke Women's Basketball program. However, the AD might have thought that the expenditure was not worth it. With the exception of WCBB fans, right or wrong, that is not an unreasonable perspective for an AD. That is his job. If she disagreed with him she had the option to go else where- which she did.

The fact that this disagreement became public is what an AD might have a problem with. In fact, it resulted in so much stink that the animosity carried over and stayed long after she and the AD had left. The negativity created still lingers until today. It is professional to keep issues "in house" and not attempt to use public opinion to force your point. Who is wrong and who is right should not have any effect on propriety. The coaches and the AD need to be on the same page with respect to their programs, at least in public.

The Cooper/Gottlieb argument holds little credence since Goestenkors is a hall of famer based specifically on her collegiate coaching. She's a former National Coach of the Year and a 5x ACC Coach of the Year. She's coached in two title games and four Final Fours. She had a winning record against both Pat and Geno at Duke. Her teams were phenomenal. It's not like she's some former great player/broadcaster an AD would be rolling the dice with, she's a Hall of Fame coach.

Being an assistant and broadcaster shows she's still around the sport. I don't think those stints make her a more well rounded coach, they just show she hasn't completely been off the grid the past decade.

And did Gail ever make the issue public? From what I can tell, the AD is the one who made rude public remarks that created speculation, it wasn't from Gail. GG always kept it classy. When she left Duke she specifically made a statement of, “Over the past few weeks, it has been disheartening to hear misinformation regarding Duke's support of me and our program, specifically from Duke's athletic administration. Before I entered into discussions with the University of Texas, Athletic Director Joe Alleva and Duke's administration approached me with a contract that was more than fair and addressed all of the issues I felt were important to the continued success of the women's basketball program.”
Link: Gail Goestenkors Statement On Duke University - Duke University


She never trashed the AD. Even so, let's say she is at fault. One issue with an AD from 13 years ago isn't going to hold much credence nor is it a red flag IMO. Her next AD liked her and wanted to keep her on longer before she decided she was burnt out and needed to take a step back.

Furthermore, let's take another example of a 'new' coach who hasn't coached in a while, Nell Fortner. Nell struggled coaching collegiately at Auburn for 8 years (went to the tournament twice), prior to that coached Purdue for 1 year before jumping ship, and prior to that accepted a head coaching role at Wisconsin for 6 days before quitting and leaving them high and dry. She also had a 3 year stint in the WNBA where she never had a winning record and ultimately resigned. 7 year break as an announcer and she's now back in coaching at a P5 school. How anyone would think that Fortner is less of a risk than GG is beyond me. If she can get a job at a P5 school, GG can.

 

[DefenseBB]

The best thing Nell did was hire Micki DeMoss to help oversee the basketball operations including getting the right coaches, practice structure and recruiting (yet to be seen). I was shocked at how well Georgia Tech did this year for any number of reasons-3 top transfers out of the program, a mediocre record in 2019, Nell not having been a "strong resume" coach and her being out of the daily coaching aspect for many years.

There are a few questions that Gail needs to answer if I am an AD wanting to hire her-
Does she have connections for her assistant coaches?
What lessons did she learn from Texas as to why she wasn't more successful?
What is her perspective on coaching "today's players" vs. just a few years ago?

Other than that, I agree with @bballnut90 that she is less of a risk than most other coaches. Say it with me BYers...Villanova, Villanova, Villanova!

 

[Shades]

Goestenkors doesn’t seem too content to stay in one place. The expectations were too high in Texas and she struggled to recruit well there, so she quit. She quit her assistant job at the Sparks most likely because the head coach was fired, so she’d probably be let go anyway. She quit her assistant job at the Fever because she felt she didn’t fit in. She was doing color commentary for a little while, but haven’t heard her doing any of that for a few years now... most likely because she was no better than Holly Warlick at it.

 

[DefenseBB]

Goestenkors doesn’t seem too content to stay in one place. The expectations were too high in Texas and she struggled to recruit well there, so she quit. She quit her assistant job at the Sparks most likely because the head coach was fired, so she’d probably be let go anyway. She quit her assistant job at the Fever because she felt she didn’t fit in. She was doing color commentary for a little while, but haven’t heard her doing any of that for a few years now... most likely because she was no better than Holly Warlick at it.

Isn't coaching by design, a vagabond life anyway? Some minor quibbles are that "while she resigned" at Texas, I think her contract had expired and she was allowed to gracefully exit stage left. Her results there were abysmal. I would not say the expectations were too high as in 5 years she placed 7th, 6th, 4th, 7th and 8th in the Big12. Pro jobs are nefarious by nature. I don't really remember her style announcing but gosh, she wasn't or couldn't have been worse than Holly, she doesn't even have a southern drawl...Your point of she's been absent for 5 years now is noted. That's why I don't think an elite or mid-tier P5 school would touch her. She seems to do better on the East coast and in the color blue...

 

[Plebe]

Isn't coaching by design, a vagabond life anyway? Some minor quibbles are that "while she resigned" at Texas, I think her contract had expired and she was allowed to gracefully exit stage left. Her results there were abysmal. I would not say the expectations were too high as in 5 years she placed 7th, 6th, 4th, 7th and 8th in the Big12. Pro jobs are nefarious by nature. I don't really remember her style announcing but gosh, she wasn't or couldn't have been worse than Holly, she doesn't even have a southern drawl...Your point of she's been absent for 5 years now is noted. That's why I don't think an elite or mid-tier P5 school would touch her. She seems to do better on the East coast and in the color blue...

I think it's a big red flag when the initial cursory resume check reveals that GG cited being "tired" when she resigned from Texas. UT threw a ton of money at what they thought was a home-run hire, and they got one NCAA tournament victory and no higher than 4th in the Big 12 standings over a five-year period. (The Big 12 was a **much** tougher conference at that time, probably the best or second-best in the nation during that era, but still.)

But "tired" indicates a level of motivation and commitment that's less than fully reliable. How can an AD be assured that she won't get "tired" after another 3 or 4 years in her new job? Collegiate coaching is notoriously a demanding, all-consuming job, and no AD wants to have doubts about whether the new hire will be "all in" or not.

 

[DefenseBB]

I think it's a big red flag when the initial cursory resume check reveals that GG cited being "tired" when she resigned from Texas. UT threw a ton of money at what they thought was a home-run hire, and they got one NCAA tournament victory and no higher than 4th in the Big 12 standings over a five-year period. (The Big 12 was a **much** tougher conference at that time, probably the best or second-best in the nation during that era, but still.)

But "tired" indicates a level of motivation and commitment that's less than fully reliable. How can an AD be assured that she won't get "tired" after another 3 or 4 years in her new job? Collegiate coaching is notoriously a demanding, all-consuming job, and no AD wants to have doubts about whether the new hire will be "all in" or not.

Look, I get it, I am not one advocating for Gail but given her resume vs. Nell's, I take Gail every time. Her whole personal life at Texas was a mess and now maybe 7, 8, 9 years later, she's ready to 'recommit' but as I said, I am not a huge GG fan anyway. But let me ask you this, if you are Villanova, would you interview her for the position and ask her all the relevant questions her tenure at Texas are raising? To me, I would put her in the candidate pool and see who does the best job interviewing.

Here's the interesting question, if Aston is let go, what "big" name would Texas go after and more importantly, what "big" name would actually go?

 

[bballnut90]

Look, I get it, I am not one advocating for Gail but given her resume vs. Nell's, I take Gail every time. Her whole personal life at Texas was a mess and now maybe 7, 8, 9 years later, she's ready to 'recommit' but as I said, I am not a huge GG fan anyway. But let me ask you this, if you are Villanova, would you interview her for the position and ask her all the relevant questions her tenure at Texas are raising? To me, I would put her in the candidate pool and see who does the best job interviewing.

Here's the interesting question, if Aston is let go, what "big" name would Texas go after and more importantly, what "big" name would actually go?

Not the biggest name but I'd scoop up Fortier at Gonzaga ASAP. She's done a heck of a job there. Barnes is another one but still early in her career and I think much of her success the past two years can be attributed to Aari McDonald.

Agree though that the pool of coaches who'd up and leave for Texas is probably not the strongest right now.

 

[DefenseBB]

Not the biggest name but I'd scoop up Fortier at Gonzaga ASAP. She's done a heck of a job there. Barnes is another one but still early in her career and I think much of her success the past two years can be attributed to Aari McDonald.

Agree though that the pool of coaches who'd up and leave for Texas is probably not the strongest right now.

Completely agree with you on Fortier, plus, that school has a pretty good track record with coaches going to P5 West Coast Schools...So here's some off the wall thinking, Texas throws oodles of money at Scott Rueck, he takes the Longhorns job and Lisa goes to OSU to battle against her mentor...

 

[bballnut90]

Completely agree with you on Fortier, plus, that school has a pretty good track record with coaches going to P5 West Coast Schools...So here's some off the wall thinking, Texas throws oodles of money at Scott Rueck, he takes the Longhorns job and Lisa goes to OSU to battle against her mentor...

Fun idea but cant imagine Scott leaving OSU considering he is from the area and lived there his whole life. Has good fan support and is raising a family there. Texas would be a massive pay bump though so you never know.

 

[Dillon77]

The best thing Nell did was hire Micki DeMoss to help oversee the basketball operations including getting the right coaches, practice structure and recruiting (yet to be seen). I was shocked at how well Georgia Tech did this year for any number of reasons-3 top transfers out of the program, a mediocre record in 2019, Nell not having been a "strong resume" coach and her being out of the daily coaching aspect for many years.

There are a few questions that Gail needs to answer if I am an AD wanting to hire her-
Does she have connections for her assistant coaches?
What lessons did she learn from Texas as to why she wasn't more successful?
What is her perspective on coaching "today's players" vs. just a few years ago?

Other than that, I agree with @bballnut90 that she is less of a risk than most other coaches. Say it with me BYers...Villanova, Villanova, Villanova!

Going to combine responses to a couple of your posts on this reply.

On Gail G. & Villanova:
- I can see this working if GG comes in ready to go. While Harry P's kids may not be the most athletic, he usually recruited smart kids who knew how to play and one thing I admired about her Duke teams was they seemed "to get it."
- Would very much hire an assistant coach with recruiting inwards into the I-95 corridor, specifically Jersey's rich girls basketball scene.
- I think being affiliated with a program that has venerable coaches such as Geno and Doug, along with young up and comers such as Megan Duffy would be helpful with recruiting. And gosh knows, GG would have to work it (whch I think she would).

Texas
- I remember reading either a very good post or article that opined GG had a tough time expanding her reach into the many (but tight) circles of Texas high school and/or AAU coaches. I'm not certain how much that had to do with her ultimate (lack of) success, but I can sure see how it would make one "tired."
- So with in mind, does it make sense to at least drop a dial on a coach who is familiar with the Texas scene?
I'm thinking of Tina Langley, the head coach at Rice, who did a very good job of utilizing a combination of transfers and recruits to resurrect/make that program. Her key players are pretty much at the end of their eligibiltiy, so this could be a good time for both sides to strike.
- I like Lisa Fortier of Gonzaga a bunch, as well: they played ND tough in that Thanksgiving tournament in Vancouver. However, she strikes me as as Left-Coach kinda person.

- What about Jennie Baranczyk at Drake? While not a Texan, she could rely on her connections in the the Plains States while establishing herself with the Texas coaching circles. Still young and might be at the stage of wanting to give the P5 conferences a shot.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Barnes is another one but still early in her career and I think much of her success the past two years can be attributed to Aari McDonald.

UA is her alma mater, she's really built that program up quickly. I just can't see her leaving.

 

[WestCoast]

Fun idea but cant imagine Scott leaving OSU considering he is from the area and lived there his whole life. Has good fan support and is raising a family there. Texas would be a massive pay bump though so you never know.

It will take a great job to compel Rueck to leave Oregon State. He seemed to be a little off this year with respect to how he dealt with officials and complained in press conferences following games. PAC-12 officials issued him at least three technicals this year and appear to be increasingly less tolerant each year with his comments during games. Not sure if that will change going forward as he has earned a reputation of complaining about the physicality in the conference

 

[bballnut90]

UA is her alma mater, she's really built that program up quickly. I just can't see her leaving.

Her pay isnt great (400k/year) and she could get a massive pay day at Texas. Aston makes double what she does, GG made over a million each year at Texas. Agree though, I have a hard time seeing her leave considering the foundation she has built in a short time frame.

 

[Plebe]

Her pay isnt great (400k/year) and she could get a massive pay day at Texas. Aston makes double what she does, GG made over a million each year at Texas. Agree though, I have a hard time seeing her leave considering the foundation she has built in a short time frame.

A more likely outcome might be that she uses a high offer from UT as leverage to get a hefty raise at UA. The AD would have egg on his face if he let her get bought away.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Yeah, you never know. Sometimes getting a pay increase is enough for a change of location. Sometimes a coach is really happy where they are and have no desire to leave.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

A more likely outcome might be that she uses a high offer from UT as leverage to get a hefty raise at UA. The AD would have egg on his face if he let her get bought away.

Good luck with that. UA is cheap and proud of it.

But Adia isn't going anywhere, unless she is outright mistreated.

Not only as an alum but she is just immensely popular. For longevity -

Mike Candrea, Softball - 1985
David Rubio, Volleyball - 1992

So, long careers are possible at U of A.

 

[DefenseBB]

A more likely outcome might be that she uses a high offer from UT as leverage to get a hefty raise at UA. The AD would have egg on his face if he let her get bought away.

The thing I really like about what Adia has done is garner the fan support. She had the second highest PAC-12 attendance per game at 5,944! Just look at these improvements in attendance and the recruiting. The AD better pay up...
2019...3,675
2018...1,933
2017...1,839
2016...1386

 

[bballnut90]

The thing I really like about what Adia has done is garner the fan support. She had the second highest PAC-12 attendance per game at 5,944! Just look at these improvements in attendance and the recruiting. The AD better pay up...
2019...3,675
2018...1,933
2017...1,839
2016...1386

Good for her. They had some massive crowds this year. Should continue to, especially if Aari is back.

 

[Figurehead]

It will take a great job to compel Rueck to leave Oregon State. He seemed to be a little off this year with respect to how he dealt with officials and complained in press conferences following games. PAC-12 officials issued him least three technicals this year and appear to be increasingly less tolerant each year with his comments during games. Not sure if that will change going forward as he has earned a reputation of complaining about the physicality in the conference

Not understanding his recruiting direction either. He definitely needs to land a huge time transfer.

 

[southie]

Here's the interesting question, if Aston is let go, what "big" name would Texas go after and more importantly, what "big" name would actually go?

IMO, it's not about getting a "big" name, it's about getting a great coach (in all areas: recruiting, player development, x's and o's, and post-season success). They come out of a box like that, right?

Contrary to some Texas fans' clueless outlooks, schools like Louisville, Miss. State, South Carolina, Notre Dame, etc. are not going to be outbid by Texas for their head coaches; thanks to equal revenue sharing, teams from P5 schools have plenty of money to retain any head coach in any sport. The exception is the PAC 12, who is struggling financially. IMO, if Texas is looking to replace Aston, the next head coach will come from the PAC 12 as not many will be able (or willing) to match Texas' offer (which one would imagine is gonna have to be greater than $1.25 million to poach someone with a proven track record).

Adia Barnes is my top candidate; but, she is a UofA alum; and, her husband is an assistant on her staff; Texas may have a nepotism clause in place (not sure).

Cori Close is a great recruiter; not sure she's best at x's and o's. Some feel she is too similar to Karen Aston. She is a California native, I believe; graduate from UCSB.

The Oregon and Oregon State head coaches aren't realistic, IMO. But, hey, if it comes down to money for them, then either would be a tremendous hire.

I am not a Charli Thorne fan; she pulls off some big wins every now again, but I see newer coaches having more success in shorter amounts of time, and simply leaving ASU behind.

 

[DefenseBB]

IMO, it's not about getting a "big" name, it's about getting a great coach (in all areas: recruiting, player development, x's and o's, and post-season success). They come out of a box like that, right?

Contrary to some Texas fans' clueless outlooks, schools like Louisville, Miss. State, South Carolina, Notre Dame, etc. are not going to be outbid by Texas for their head coaches; thanks to equal revenue sharing, teams from P5 schools have plenty of money to retain any head coach in any sport. The exception is the PAC 12, who is struggling financially. IMO, if Texas is looking to replace Aston, the next head coach will come from the PAC 12 as not many will be able (or willing) to match Texas' offer (which one would imagine is gonna have to be greater than $1.25 million to poach someone with a proven track record).

Adia Barnes is my top candidate; but, she is a UofA alum; and, her husband is an assistant on her staff; Texas may have a nepotism clause in place (not sure).

Cori Close is a great recruiter; not sure she's best at x's and o's. Some feel she is too similar to Karen Aston. She is a California native, I believe; graduate from UCSB.

The Oregon and Oregon State head coaches aren't realistic, IMO. But, hey, if it comes down to money for them, then either would be a tremendous hire.

I am not a Charli Thorne fan; she pulls off some big wins every now again, but I see newer coaches having more success in shorter amounts of time, and simply leaving ASU behind.

Big names usually means they check all the boxes. To your point, yes, just like the Tennessee fans last year, those schools are pipe dreams. Kelly is not leaving the University of Nike. Money is not an issue there. I don't see Adia leaving Arizona but who knows.

Where I digress from you is Scott Rueck at Oregon State. While he is from the NW, coached at a DII school up there as well and while he has built OSU into something, big money and chance to really compete on a national level (in front of more eyes) could be appealing. The main worry I have is that "Texas recruiting circuit" and how difficult is it to break into. I wanted to like Karen but after watching her teams for years and never developing any coherent offense despite oodles of talent, I think it's time to move on. ​

 

[southie]

Big names usually means they check all the boxes. To your point, yes, just like the Tennessee fans last year, those schools are pipe dreams. Kelly is not leaving the University of Nike. Money is not an issue there. I don't see Adia leaving Arizona but who knows.
Where I digress from you is Scott Rueck at Oregon State. While he is from the NW, coached at a DII school up there as well and while he has built OSU into something, big money and chance to really compete on a national level (in front of more eyes) could be appealing. The main worry I have is that "Texas recruiting circuit" and how difficult is it to break into. I wanted to like Karen but after watching her teams for years and never developing any coherent offense despite oodles of talent, I think it's time to move on.

That "University of Nike" comment makes me think you believe Oregon pays their head coaches Top 10 salaries nationally; their football head coach's salary ranks 56th nationally from what I saw (unless that is now outdated).

I would have thought Kelly Graves was earning more money than what I found reported in the media. Looks like he received a 6-year contract extension in 2017 that bumped his salary up to $687,500. In March 2019, Oregon bumped his salary again; not sure the exact number, but my math says maybe around $950,000. That is still not Top 5 nationally, maybe not even Top 10 nationally.

Oregon Ducks extend contract of women’s basketball coach Kelly Graves through 2025-26

The school announced the three-year extension of Graves’s contract, pending approval of UO’s Board of Trustees, on Wednesday

www.oregonlive.com

There is also a revision to the buyout Graves would owe Oregon if he chose to leave for another job. If Graves were to do so before April 6, 2021, he would owe Oregon $500,000, the same as his original contract.

 

[Figurehead]

That "University of Nike" comment makes me think you believe Oregon pays their head coaches Top 10 salaries nationally; their football head coach's salary ranks 56th nationally from what I saw (unless that is now outdated).

I would have thought Kelly Graves was earning more money than what I found reported in the media. Looks like he received a 6-year contract extension in 2017 that bumped his salary up to $687,500. In March 2019, Oregon bumped his salary again; not sure the exact number, but my math says maybe around $950,000. That is still not Top 5 nationally, maybe not even Top 10 nationally.

Oregon Ducks extend contract of women’s basketball coach Kelly Graves through 2025-26

The school announced the three-year extension of Graves’s contract, pending approval of UO’s Board of Trustees, on Wednesday

www.oregonlive.com

There is also a revision to the buyout Graves would owe Oregon if he chose to leave for another job. If Graves were to do so before April 6, 2021, he would owe Oregon $500,000, the same as his original contract.

Lol, He will retire from here. Has a nice extra home in Bend Oregon. Some people are not all about money but for others like Mike White it was as much as I can haul in attitude. Surprising why some can't see that.

So Texas throwing money left and right does not make a good return on investment.