Fuller: Geno's take on the Marcus Smart incident at Texas Tech | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Fuller: Geno's take on the Marcus Smart incident at Texas Tech

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UCONNfan1 said:
My brother is gay and been called every nasty name in the book, equally as bad as any demeaning ethnic insult you can think of, and he's never punched anyone because of it. Would he be justified? Probably. But there are consequences for laying your hands on someone in an offensive manner. It sucks, but it's the law.
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So what you are sqaying is no matter what someone can verbally assault you, yes someone can verbally assault you and that's o.k. but physical
reaction is not normal.
 
The fact is, these sporting events should have security personnel enforcing some degree of civil conduct, but behind the basket which is the most likely place for players to go into the stands, they just have a bunch of photographers sitting there. It is also the point where the worst behaved fans congregate to egg each other on. But arenas should enforce a certain level of behavior, maybe allowing certain broad statements like "Duke socks!" but stifling fans who yell out "Laettner, you're a pile of shot!" Texas Tech didn't really seem to think that Orr was a problem.

At Yankee Stadium if you sit in the bleacher seats where the beer tends to flow more heavily, they have security guards at the end of the aisles along the wall that are on the lookout guys like Orr, and they make sure they stay within bounds or they get escorted out.
 
phil sampieri said:
So what you are sqaying is no matter what someone can verbally assault you, yes someone can verbally assault you and that's o.k. but physical
reaction is not normal.
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I'm saying it's the law. If I could have someone arrested for an offensive verbal tirade, I'd certainly do it. But that's not the law.

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. I'm not a lawyer - I'm sure there is someone on here who knows better than I do. But I think... Threatening to kill someone while I'm holding a knife, gun, club etc. is verbal assault. But just calling someone a bunch of horrifying names, or saying incredibly offensive things about their race, religion, mother, sexual orientation, etc etc. is really really bad, but it's not against the law. But if I turn around and physically assault them, then I'm the one who gets arrested...
 
Geno said it exactly right. (He even said he felt "bad" for the kid and not the ubiquitous and gratingly awful "badly". Kudos.
 
Unfortunately, much of sports seems to have devolved into a trash-talking pile of manure. Last Fall I attended a high school football game for the first time in well over 40 years. I could not believe some of the things I heard in the stands and also on the field. Very sad.
 
elzorrogris said:
Geno said it exactly right. (He even said he felt "bad" for the kid and not the ubiquitous and gratingly awful "badly". Kudos.
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Good catch. The rule is that you can't feel "badly" unless you are either wearing gloves or have lost your sense of touch.

Next on my list of gratingly awful usage: modifiers for "unique" (e.g., "somewhat").
 
If this guy makes a habit out of his behavior, as was reported, I'm a bit surprised that it hadn't been "handled" by any of the surrounding fans at some point.
 
terif831 said:
If this guy makes a habit out of his behavior, as was reported, I'm a bit surprised that it hadn't been "handled" by any of the surrounding fans at some point.
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They probably egg him on.
 
ndmb said:
Have you ever been called the equivalent of the N word?

From what I've seen, it's the kind of thing that is really different in practice than in theory. I think it was reasonable to suspend Smart for three games, but I wouldn't judge him over his actions.
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I was called about the worse thing you can call a woman and I felt no urge to further engage the foul-mouthed idiot.
 
We are a society that finds entertainment in the exchanging of insults. People in the public eye discover they can increase their media value by being publicly lewd and hyper vulgar. We are a very vulgar society. Civility has been devalued. The only thing surprising in the incident is that it is thankfully an infrequent kind of thing in Div. 1. Now, if we want to talk intramural, weekend soccer and football...!!!
 
Kibitzer said:
Good catch. The rule is that you can't feel "badly" unless you are either wearing gloves or have lost your sense of touch.

Next on my list of gratingly awful usage: modifiers for "unique" (e.g., "somewhat").
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Or if you are just not good at it. ;)
 
DobbsRover2 said:
Very unfortunate. And now a lot of fans are also thinking Texas Tech is "a piece of crap school." Admins see no problem with their fans making obscene gestures or calling players scatalogical names to their faces. And then when lardhead fan finally says "Gee maybe I shouldn't have gotten my school such bad publicity" and offers not to attend any more games this season, it appears to be just silence from the school on the offer.

It always amazes me that foulmouthed fans like Orr and his wife are so shocked when their behavior provokes these incidents at basketball games. "What us? We're just acting like normal Texas football fans. Why can't we call them crap when we're sitting ringside and they come near?"
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Actually I was impressed that, even though it was after the fact, the Texas Tech fan made what sounded to me a sincere apology, realizing exactly how inappropriate his remarks were. I think a lot of people say things in the heat of the moment and you and I don't know if there was anything Smart did specifically that might have incited him to get that angry. I'm certainly not condoning it but I've said things when provoked that were an overreaction and I wished that I could take back. The important point is I saw an event where Smart had a press conference and conducted himself extraordinarily well and impressed me very much. Then I heard a written statement by the fan who took full responsibility for provoking Smart and expressed regret for the remarks that he was hopeful wouldn't reflect badly on Texas Tech University and their fans, in general. He showed a willingness to remove himself from attending any other TTU events this year. It was a regrettable incident but after the fact, both parties showed a lot of maturity in accepting responsibility and that's always a good thing. Too often, it's always the other guy whose responsible!!!!
 
I'll chime in with comments -

- I attended the NIT semi game that RU men were in some years back. At the Garden. Tommy Amaker (sp?) was coaching Michigan? at the time and got a fair amount of abuse. In any case, the venom and nastiness in that arena from the fans was something I was truly unprepared for from my relatively mild WBB fan experience.

- the PAC12 / Arizona has an announcement about foul language read before games (all sports). Yesterday, some students from an ASU bus chanted, after an early foul, about our player, her foul and that she s_cked. Arena security spoke to an ASU official and the students were warned. The next time they chanted, they didn't include the last line. That said, I have no idea how much that sort of thing is enforced at men's basketball and I don't sit anywhere near the field in football. For the 3 women's sports I do attend, that sort of remark was completely uncharacteristic.

- After an incident where RU student / fans were insulting to players of another team (a service academy, which took it to a different level), our then head coach, Greg Schiano, came out very strongly about insulting student athletes, commenting that coaches are (well) paid to take the abuse, and if you had to be abusive, boo the coach, not the athletes.
 
Ozzie Nelson said:
Good for you. Try, however, to take your shoes off and put on those of someone else.
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I still believe there can be no justification for putting your hands on someone, ever. I don't care what he said. Apparently, that is no longer taught and it's a shame. So Smart was mad and insulted, get used to it, it won't be the last time.
 
SallyH said:
I still believe there can be no justification for putting your hands on someone, ever. I don't care what he said. Apparently, that is no longer taught and it's a shame. So Smart was mad and insulted, get used to it, it won't be the last time.
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Real world. Some folks will respond with fists.

In many cases, folks who say things are asking for it. That doesn't make it right, but as someone who has never responded physically to anything said to me (or encouraged anyone to respond physically to something said), I admit that, every once in a while, I like to see when some venom filled nasty-fan has a negative consequence. Get thrown out of an arena. Better yet, resist getting ejected from the arena and have the cops toss you out - literally. Something of that sort. Unfortunately, it rarely happens. At sporting events or elsewhere.
 
Two things in reply to an earlier post.
1. There is no such thing, in a legal sense, as "hate speech." Most people think there is, and in the 1940s the Court toyed with the idea of creating such a category, but it turned decisively away from that post-War eraand killed that idea in the RAV cross-burning case in 1992. Liberals and conservatives on the Court are united in rejecting the idea of unprotected "hate speech."
2. In a 1942 ruling, the Court said that speech that might lead to an imminent breach of the peace might be subject to prosecution. But since then, no conviction based on that standard has been upheld. As several posters replied, words can antagonize, but only acts assault.
3. But no one has a "right" to go to a basketball game. If the apology isn't enough, I'd have no problem with denying him a seat.
 
Let's be clear here. Has it been definitively established that Orr used the racial slur? If so then ban him forever . He deserves every rotten thing said about him. But I haven't seen it corroborated by other people near the incident. Not that there aren't any number of other miserable things he could have said. It would seem from all estimates of Smart's personality that the fan's remark would have to have been extreme for him to react in such a way.
 
Civil society in all its forms has taken a beating in the last 40+ years.

The illusion that society was somehow "more" civil previous to the past 40+ is amusing: Um, segregation anyone?

There have been fisticuffs between fans and players since sports began. Ditto with insulting language The biggest change is it's captured on film and shared -- which underscores the free rein given fans AND players AND coaches.
 
Blueballer said:
Let's be clear here. Has it been definitively established that Orr used the racial slur? If so then ban him forever . He deserves every rotten thing said about him. But I haven't seen it corroborated by other people near the incident. Not that there aren't any number of other miserable things he could have said. It would seem from all estimates of Smart's personality that the fan's remark would have to have been extreme for him to react in such a way.
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One news report tonight had a short video clip that indicated that Orr said "You piece of crap" , which though not very complimentary, is a far cry from a racial slur.
 
Deadrody said:
The simple fact is, the fan needs to have his season tickets revoked and he should be banned from the arena for at least one season.
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The school said that that fan has never been a problem or had another incident- then we see him giving an obscene gesture to another player on video. It is ridiculous. I wish he knocked him out----that is what he deserved. Here Smart was trying to keep the camera guy he hit from getting hurt, 10 seconds left, 2 pt game and this idiot is screaming whatever at him from a few feet away- I wish he clocked him - because that idiot deserved it- especially if he said what we heard he may have said!
 
Buzzyboy said:
Actually I was impressed that, even though it was after the fact, the Texas Tech fan made what sounded to me a sincere apology, realizing exactly how inappropriate his remarks were. I think a lot of people say things in the heat of the moment and you and I don't know if there was anything Smart did specifically that might have incited him to get that angry. I'm certainly not condoning it but I've said things when provoked that were an overreaction and I wished that I could take back. The important point is I saw an event where Smart had a press conference and conducted himself extraordinarily well and impressed me very much. Then I heard a written statement by the fan who took full responsibility for provoking Smart and expressed regret for the remarks that he was hopeful wouldn't reflect badly on Texas Tech University and their fans, in general. He showed a willingness to remove himself from attending any other TTU events this year. It was a regrettable incident but after the fact, both parties showed a lot of maturity in accepting responsibility and that's always a good thing. Too often, it's always the other guy whose responsible!!!!
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And most boyfriends and husbands apologize after they hit their girlfriends and wives. It's the act that defines you, not the apology.
 
TTU has tolerated this behavior from their fans for many years. I'm really surprised that this is the first incident of its kind there.
 
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