Fuller: Geno's take on the Marcus Smart incident at Texas Tech

[Kibitzer]

Geno said it exactly right. (He even said he felt "bad" for the kid and not the ubiquitous and gratingly awful "badly". Kudos.

Good catch. The rule is that you can't feel "badly" unless you are either wearing gloves or have lost your sense of touch.

Next on my list of gratingly awful usage: modifiers for "unique" (e.g., "somewhat").

 

[terif831]

If this guy makes a habit out of his behavior, as was reported, I'm a bit surprised that it hadn't been "handled" by any of the surrounding fans at some point.

 

[pap49cba]

If this guy makes a habit out of his behavior, as was reported, I'm a bit surprised that it hadn't been "handled" by any of the surrounding fans at some point.

They probably egg him on.

 

[SallyH]

Have you ever been called the equivalent of the N word?

From what I've seen, it's the kind of thing that is really different in practice than in theory. I think it was reasonable to suspend Smart for three games, but I wouldn't judge him over his actions.

I was called about the worse thing you can call a woman and I felt no urge to further engage the foul-mouthed idiot.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

We are a society that finds entertainment in the exchanging of insults. People in the public eye discover they can increase their media value by being publicly lewd and hyper vulgar. We are a very vulgar society. Civility has been devalued. The only thing surprising in the incident is that it is thankfully an infrequent kind of thing in Div. 1. Now, if we want to talk intramural, weekend soccer and football...!!!

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I was called about the worse thing you can call a woman and I felt no urge to further engage the foul-mouthed idiot.

Good for you. Try, however, to take your shoes off and put on those of someone else.

 

[boontonbomber]

Good for you. Try, however, to take your shoes off and put on those of someone else.

well, i suppose she could say the same to you.

 

[Zorro]

Good catch. The rule is that you can't feel "badly" unless you are either wearing gloves or have lost your sense of touch.

Next on my list of gratingly awful usage: modifiers for "unique" (e.g., "somewhat").

Or if you are just not good at it.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Very unfortunate. And now a lot of fans are also thinking Texas Tech is "a piece of crap school." Admins see no problem with their fans making obscene gestures or calling players scatalogical names to their faces. And then when lardhead fan finally says "Gee maybe I shouldn't have gotten my school such bad publicity" and offers not to attend any more games this season, it appears to be just silence from the school on the offer.

It always amazes me that foulmouthed fans like Orr and his wife are so shocked when their behavior provokes these incidents at basketball games. "What us? We're just acting like normal Texas football fans. Why can't we call them crap when we're sitting ringside and they come near?"

Actually I was impressed that, even though it was after the fact, the Texas Tech fan made what sounded to me a sincere apology, realizing exactly how inappropriate his remarks were. I think a lot of people say things in the heat of the moment and you and I don't know if there was anything Smart did specifically that might have incited him to get that angry. I'm certainly not condoning it but I've said things when provoked that were an overreaction and I wished that I could take back. The important point is I saw an event where Smart had a press conference and conducted himself extraordinarily well and impressed me very much. Then I heard a written statement by the fan who took full responsibility for provoking Smart and expressed regret for the remarks that he was hopeful wouldn't reflect badly on Texas Tech University and their fans, in general. He showed a willingness to remove himself from attending any other TTU events this year. It was a regrettable incident but after the fact, both parties showed a lot of maturity in accepting responsibility and that's always a good thing. Too often, it's always the other guy whose responsible!!!!

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'll chime in with comments -

- I attended the NIT semi game that RU men were in some years back. At the Garden. Tommy Amaker (sp?) was coaching Michigan? at the time and got a fair amount of abuse. In any case, the venom and nastiness in that arena from the fans was something I was truly unprepared for from my relatively mild WBB fan experience.

- the PAC12 / Arizona has an announcement about foul language read before games (all sports). Yesterday, some students from an ASU bus chanted, after an early foul, about our player, her foul and that she s_cked. Arena security spoke to an ASU official and the students were warned. The next time they chanted, they didn't include the last line. That said, I have no idea how much that sort of thing is enforced at men's basketball and I don't sit anywhere near the field in football. For the 3 women's sports I do attend, that sort of remark was completely uncharacteristic.

- After an incident where RU student / fans were insulting to players of another team (a service academy, which took it to a different level), our then head coach, Greg Schiano, came out very strongly about insulting student athletes, commenting that coaches are (well) paid to take the abuse, and if you had to be abusive, boo the coach, not the athletes.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

well, i suppose she could say the same to you.

And I would try to do it.

 

[SallyH]

Good for you. Try, however, to take your shoes off and put on those of someone else.

I still believe there can be no justification for putting your hands on someone, ever. I don't care what he said. Apparently, that is no longer taught and it's a shame. So Smart was mad and insulted, get used to it, it won't be the last time.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I still believe there can be no justification for putting your hands on someone, ever. I don't care what he said. Apparently, that is no longer taught and it's a shame. So Smart was mad and insulted, get used to it, it won't be the last time.

Real world. Some folks will respond with fists.

In many cases, folks who say things are asking for it. That doesn't make it right, but as someone who has never responded physically to anything said to me (or encouraged anyone to respond physically to something said), I admit that, every once in a while, I like to see when some venom filled nasty-fan has a negative consequence. Get thrown out of an arena. Better yet, resist getting ejected from the arena and have the cops toss you out - literally. Something of that sort. Unfortunately, it rarely happens. At sporting events or elsewhere.

 

[HuskerDo]

Two things in reply to an earlier post.
1. There is no such thing, in a legal sense, as "hate speech." Most people think there is, and in the 1940s the Court toyed with the idea of creating such a category, but it turned decisively away from that post-War eraand killed that idea in the RAV cross-burning case in 1992. Liberals and conservatives on the Court are united in rejecting the idea of unprotected "hate speech."
2. In a 1942 ruling, the Court said that speech that might lead to an imminent breach of the peace might be subject to prosecution. But since then, no conviction based on that standard has been upheld. As several posters replied, words can antagonize, but only acts assault.
3. But no one has a "right" to go to a basketball game. If the apology isn't enough, I'd have no problem with denying him a seat.

 

[Blue Huskie]

Let's be clear here. Has it been definitively established that Orr used the racial slur? If so then ban him forever . He deserves every rotten thing said about him. But I haven't seen it corroborated by other people near the incident. Not that there aren't any number of other miserable things he could have said. It would seem from all estimates of Smart's personality that the fan's remark would have to have been extreme for him to react in such a way.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Civil society in all its forms has taken a beating in the last 40+ years.

The illusion that society was somehow "more" civil previous to the past 40+ is amusing: Um, segregation anyone?

There have been fisticuffs between fans and players since sports began. Ditto with insulting language The biggest change is it's captured on film and shared -- which underscores the free rein given fans AND players AND coaches.

 

[CCinCT]

Let's be clear here. Has it been definitively established that Orr used the racial slur? If so then ban him forever . He deserves every rotten thing said about him. But I haven't seen it corroborated by other people near the incident. Not that there aren't any number of other miserable things he could have said. It would seem from all estimates of Smart's personality that the fan's remark would have to have been extreme for him to react in such a way.

One news report tonight had a short video clip that indicated that Orr said "You piece of crap" , which though not very complimentary, is a far cry from a racial slur.

 

[Geno-ista]

The simple fact is, the fan needs to have his season tickets revoked and he should be banned from the arena for at least one season.

The school said that that fan has never been a problem or had another incident- then we see him giving an obscene gesture to another player on video. It is ridiculous. I wish he knocked him out----that is what he deserved. Here Smart was trying to keep the camera guy he hit from getting hurt, 10 seconds left, 2 pt game and this idiot is screaming whatever at him from a few feet away- I wish he clocked him - because that idiot deserved it- especially if he said what we heard he may have said!

 

[easttexastrash]

Actually I was impressed that, even though it was after the fact, the Texas Tech fan made what sounded to me a sincere apology, realizing exactly how inappropriate his remarks were. I think a lot of people say things in the heat of the moment and you and I don't know if there was anything Smart did specifically that might have incited him to get that angry. I'm certainly not condoning it but I've said things when provoked that were an overreaction and I wished that I could take back. The important point is I saw an event where Smart had a press conference and conducted himself extraordinarily well and impressed me very much. Then I heard a written statement by the fan who took full responsibility for provoking Smart and expressed regret for the remarks that he was hopeful wouldn't reflect badly on Texas Tech University and their fans, in general. He showed a willingness to remove himself from attending any other TTU events this year. It was a regrettable incident but after the fact, both parties showed a lot of maturity in accepting responsibility and that's always a good thing. Too often, it's always the other guy whose responsible!!!!

And most boyfriends and husbands apologize after they hit their girlfriends and wives. It's the act that defines you, not the apology.

 

[easttexastrash]

TTU has tolerated this behavior from their fans for many years. I'm really surprised that this is the first incident of its kind there.

 

[DaddyChoc]

- After an incident where RU student / fans were insulting to players of another team (a service academy, which took it to a different level), our then head coach, Greg Schiano, came out very strongly about insulting student athletes, commenting that coaches are (well) paid to take the abuse, and if you had to be abusive, boo the coach, not the athletes.

the coach isnt some poor black kid from the city who's mom and/or pops hasnt been around since the kid was 5... so sometimes its easier for the million dollar coach to shake it off but a player not so much. some comments really strike a nerve and the chanter knows this.

react and deal with the consequences later (shrugs)

btw there's name calling/insults on message boards by some but of course they wouldnt say it to the other's face.

lets be kind to one another and stop hurling insults because you never know how someone will react!

 

[stamfordhusky]

Let's be clear here. Has it been definitively established that Orr used the racial slur? If so then ban him forever . He deserves every rotten thing said about him. But I haven't seen it corroborated by other people near the incident. Not that there aren't any number of other miserable things he could have said. It would seem from all estimates of Smart's personality that the fan's remark would have to have been extreme for him to react in such a way.

All evidence suggests that Orr did not use any racial slurs. Still no excuse for what he said - but Smart's actions were still wrong and he deserved the suspension. Had he been an NBA player, he would be sitting for a month.

 

[mauconnfan]

I guess my question to Geno would be is it alright for the students to have a chant of "You suck" to a player or referee then? Or according to all of you we reprimand all of the students?

Sorry, calling a player a "piece of crap" is pretty immature I agree but compared to what some of the chants are at other schools, you can't do anything to this guy!

 

[easttexastrash]

I would venture to guess that no player in college basketball was called worse than what BG was called, and did you see her hitting anyone? Oh, wait...

 

[DaddyChoc]

dang it... another reason to mention BG

 

[DobbsRover2]

TTU has tolerated this behavior from their fans for many years. I'm really surprised that this is the first incident of its kind there.

It's not really the first incident of its kind, though in the 2010 BB incident with Orr at TT against Texas A&M, his crappy behavior was at more of a distance and didn't provoke physical action. But what if he had given the T A&M player the same gestures in his face from a foot away back then? Would there have been an incident? If anything from the tape of the 2010 incident, he seemed even more over the top back then.

How do you describe someone like Orr? Well, at TTech he's known as a "superfan," the kind who travels thousands of miles each year following the football and basketball teams and screaming his big lungs out for his team and emptying his back passage toward the opponent. He gets profiled on the university web sites, and the coaches laud him saying, "We can always count on Jeff." And of course they can. They know he's there behind the basket abusing the visiting players and working the home advantage and doing his obscenely creative best to get to the other team's best players. Until the shove, the school had never indicated it found any of his past behavior "unacceptable." And I'm sure he's a hero to TTech fans because he can provoke the other team's stars into suspensions because he's a well-placed superfan who can say anything he wants and the BB players are just NCAA lackeys who are all very well paid to take the abuse and turn the other cheek.

What nobody wants to get into about all this is the racial dynamics. Whatever, accept that he didn't sneak in any n-words under his breath after the more clearly heard "piece of crap" stuff. Still, you have the big fat white doofus hurling invective at players who are mainly all tall and black (okay, Orr probably did yell something like "You little white POS" at OK St's Phil Forte). If the solution to all this is just the same-old namby-pamby "They're college athletes and they have to be ready to be abused on the court and if they do react maybe they should even face criminal charges," then maybe the NCAA really should be paying the athletes for hardship duty, as there will be more of these incidents in the future. Sure, the generally directed "Visiting U succccks!" chants will continue to rain down from the student sections for any school that has a pulse, but until schools get proactive about enforcing conduct standards in the volatile sections of the arena, we're in for more shoving matches and some ugly questions about racial issues to follow.

 

[HuskyPup]

My brother is gay and been called every nasty name in the book, equally as bad as any demeaning ethnic insult you can think of, and he's never punched anyone because of it. Would he be justified? Probably. But there are consequences for laying your hands on someone in an offensive manner. It sucks, but it's the law.

True that!.... even though Orr is an idiot, he could sue Smart and Okla St because he was physically assaulted ...and you know what...he would win.
Simply put... you can't put your hands on people.....ever. It doesn't matter what pressure Smart is under or how obnoxious fans can be. Because Smart placed his university and himself at risk legally, he probably should have received more that the 3 game suspension. IMO........

 

[Geno-ista]

It's not really the first incident of its kind, though in the 2010 BB incident with Orr at TT against Texas A&M, his crappy behavior was at more of a distance and didn't provoke physical action. But what if he had given the T A&M player the same gestures in his face from a foot away back then? Would there have been an incident? If anything from the tape of the 2010 incident, he seemed even more over the top back then.

How do you describe someone like Orr? Well, at TTech he's known as a "superfan," the kind who travels thousands of miles each year following the football and basketball teams and screaming his big lungs out for his team and emptying his back passage toward the opponent. He gets profiled on the university web sites, and the coaches laud him saying, "We can always count on Jeff." And of course they can. They know he's there behind the basket abusing the visiting players and working the home advantage and doing his obscenely creative best to get to the other team's best players. Until the shove, the school had never indicated it found any of his past behavior "unacceptable." And I'm sure he's a hero to TTech fans because he can provoke the other team's stars into suspensions because he's a well-placed superfan who can say anything he wants and the BB players are just NCAA lackeys who are all very well paid to take the abuse and turn the other cheek.

What nobody wants to get into about all this is the racial dynamics. Whatever, accept that he didn't sneak in any n-words under his breath after the more clearly heard "piece of crap" stuff. Still, you have the big fat white doofus hurling invective at players who are mainly all tall and black (okay, Orr probably did yell something like "You little white POS" at OK St's Phil Forte). If the solution to all this is just the same-old namby-pamby "They're college athletes and they have to be ready to be abused on the court and if they do react maybe they should even face criminal charges," then maybe the NCAA really should be paying the athletes for hardship duty, as there will be more of these incidents in the future. Sure, the generally directed "Visiting U succccks!" chants will continue to rain down from the student sections for any school that has a pulse, but until schools get proactive about enforcing conduct standards in the volatile sections of the arena, we're in for more shoving matches and some ugly questions about racial issues to follow.

Well said DR- excellent

 

[Icebear]

True that!.... even though Orr is an idiot, he could sue Smart and Okla St because he was physically assaulted ...and you know what...he would win.
Simply put... you can't put your hands on people.....ever. It doesn't matter what pressure Smart is under or how obnoxious fans can be. Because Smart placed his university and himself at risk legally, he probably should have received more that the 3 game suspension. IMO...

Then Smart turns around and sues the university for allowing a guy with a history of harassment of players into games. They are both wrong. Both should should be accountable for their part in the incident.