Fragility of NET Quad system (e.g., Marquette)

[Tiamat7]

In today's NET rankings, UCONN checks in at 18, and Marquette at 30.

UConn is 3-6 in Quad 1 games, and 5-1 vs Quad 2.

If Marquette slides one spot down, we only have two Quad 1 wins. So Marquette needs to keep winning!

As we approach seeding and tourney talk, there is perhaps too much emphasis placed on Quad 1 wins. Useful, but kind of quirky.

I imagine the committee also looks at the summation of Quad 1 plus Quad 2, where we excel.

Of course we have ample chances to add more Q1 wins to the resume in the coming weeks. Sure is nice being in the Big East!

 

[Hi-Low]

In today's NET rankings, UCONN checks in at 18, and Marquette at 30.

UConn is 3-6 in Quad 1 games, and 5-1 vs Quad 2.

If Marquette slides one spot down, we only have two Quad 1 wins. So Marquette needs to keep winning!

As we approach seeding and tourney talk, there is perhaps too much emphasis placed on Quad 1 wins. Useful, but kind of quirky.

I imagine the committee also looks at the summation of Quad 1 plus Quad 2, where we excel.

Of course we have ample chances to add more Q1 wins to the resume in the coming weeks. Sure is nice being in the Big East!

Yeah I think you almost need to look at Quad 1 & 2 combined since the diference can be so minor....both quad 1 & 2 are "quality wins".

The number of Quad 1 wins might come in to play more for seeding purposes between teams that are close.

 

[UofCT]

If you read the boneyard after a loss you would think we have 10 Quad 4 Ls.

 

[UConnSwag11]

In today's NET rankings, UCONN checks in at 18, and Marquette at 30.

UConn is 3-6 in Quad 1 games, and 5-1 vs Quad 2.

If Marquette slides one spot down, we only have two Quad 1 wins. So Marquette needs to keep winning!

As we approach seeding and tourney talk, there is perhaps too much emphasis placed on Quad 1 wins. Useful, but kind of quirky.

I imagine the committee also looks at the summation of Quad 1 plus Quad 2, where we excel.

Of course we have ample chances to add more Q1 wins to the resume in the coming weeks. Sure is nice being in the Big East!

the next three games are massive.

 

[UofCT]

the next three games are massive.

I'm sure you will call for Hurley to be fired if we lose one of those games but I personally think 4-2 in the next six is great. 21-9 for the season is a huge accomplishment given where we were in 2017 and 2018.

 

[tykurez]

I also think the Auburn win skews us a bit. Look at Providence who is 5-1 in both Q1 and Q2 yet are 28th.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I'm sure you will call for Hurley to be fired if we lose one of those games but I personally think 4-2 in the next six is great. 21-9 for the season is a huge accomplishment given where we were in 2017 and 2018.

Nah. I haven’t once called for Hurley to be fired and I have even said Hurley is our guy. Criticizing his in game flaws and refusal to adjust anything doesn’t mean I want him fired. There were glaring issues at the beginning of the season and last year that people like me pointed out while people like you brushed them aside and said chill out. That tone has changed as many of those posters have said recently Hurley needs to adjust and games like st johns were must wins.

We have to win against nova and split seton hall and Xavier at the very least. We need quality wins. Then we take care of business the last three games. This team can play great basketball and go on a run. It’s there. We just haven’t shown it consistently since Auburn.

 

[UofCT]

I also think the Auburn win skews us a bit. Look at Providence who is 5-1 in both Q1 and Q2 yet are 28th.

Hells yes it does. We own the best win in college basketball this season. It should count for everything

 

[tykurez]

Hells yes it does. We own the best win in college basketball this season. It should count for everything

That is until Arkansas beat them

 

[UofCT]

That is until Arkansas beat them

Arkansas won at home, we beat them at a neutral site.

 

[UofCT]

Nah. I haven’t once called for Hurley to be fired and I have even said Hurley is our guy. Criticizing his in game flaws and refusal to adjust anything doesn’t mean I want him fired. There were glaring issues at the beginning of the season and last year that people like me pointed out while people like you brushed them aside and said chill out. That tone has changed as many of those posters have said recently Hurley needs to adjust and games like st johns were must wins.

We have to win against nova and split seton hall and Xavier at the very least. We need quality wins. Then we take care of business the last three games. This team can play great basketball and go on a run. It’s there. We just haven’t shown it consistently since Auburn.

I guess we just disagree on certain things.

For example on Friday you said Whaley had no inside game which is borderline insane for the defending big east defensive player of the year. You even double downed on Saturday asking for Whaley to be benched. Thank goodness Hurley did not listen to you.
Whaley might have a bad game every once in a while but his inside game is great for college bball. A reminder he went 11, 7 and 5 yesterday.

Back to Hurley, criticizing him after every loss (like you do) is unfair. He has done a phenomenal job.

 

[auror]

I'm not sure how much the committee uses the quadrants. They're on the team sheet, so I'm sure in some way they influence the committee. But my hope is that the committee dives in a bit deeper on the resumes.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I guess we just disagree on certain things.

For example on Friday you said Whaley had no inside game which is borderline insane for the defending big east defensive player of the year. You even double downed on Saturday asking for Whaley to be benched. Thank goodness Hurley did not listen to you.
Whaley might have a bad game every once in a while but his inside game is great for college bball. A reminder he went 11, 7 and 5 yesterday.

Back to Hurley, criticizing him after every loss (like you do) is unfair. He has done a phenomenal job.

When did I say bench him? If you mean not to start him, yes. Whaley doesn't have an inside game. He was the defensive player of the year, not offensive. He gets his points from putbacks not from back to the basket moves. We played better when he and Sanogo aren't on the floor together because we're able to space the floor more with another wing or guard. I'm not the only one who has said this.

Yes, Hurley has done a phenomenal job bringing us from where we were to where we are. There's no arguing that. From the standings to recruiting, he's been great. I also criticize him after wins so at least I'm consistent. Saying these things doesn't mean rooting for the team to lose. Far from it. Don't get it twisted

 

[navery12]

When did I say bench him? If you mean not to start him, yes. Whaley doesn't have an inside game. He was the defensive player of the year, not offensive. He gets his points from putbacks not from back to the basket moves. We played better when he and Sanogo aren't on the floor together because we're able to space the floor more with another wing or guard. I'm not the only one who has said this.

Yes, Hurley has done a phenomenal job bringing us from where we were to where we are. There's no arguing that. From the standings to recruiting, he's been great. I also criticize him after wins so at least I'm consistent. Saying these things doesn't mean rooting for the team to lose. Far from it. Don't get it twisted

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

 

[UConnSwag11]

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

Yeah, it's weird. I don't get it. But unless we get more scoring either from our starting unit or bench, it's going to be tough to continue to win games in the 50's and 60's

 

[Hungryhusky99]

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

I think it is mainly because Hawkins and Polley are just not shooting the ball very well at all outside of a few games.

 

[UofCT]

When did I say bench him? If you mean not to start him, yes. Whaley doesn't have an inside game. He was the defensive player of the year, not offensive. He gets his points from putbacks not from back to the basket moves. We played better when he and Sanogo aren't on the floor together because we're able to space the floor more with another wing or guard. I'm not the only one who has said this.

Yes, Hurley has done a phenomenal job bringing us from where we were to where we are. There's no arguing that. From the standings to recruiting, he's been great. I also criticize him after wins so at least I'm consistent. Saying these things doesn't mean rooting for the team to lose. Far from it. Don't get it twisted

Whaley is fine offensively and he actually finishes better around the rim than most our roster. There is nobody on our bench who can consistently and positively contribute like Whaley. I don't want to go down our bench and list reasons because that usually leads to me getting banned.

 

[navery12]

I think it is mainly because Hawkins and Polley are just not shooting the ball very well at all outside of a few games.

That's my guess as well. Initially I figured a lot of the 1 big lineups were with Gaffney, but the numbers are similar with Gaffney and with Cole. So my guess now is we're getting worse rebounding numbers with the smaller lineup, and Polley/Hawkins aren't making up for it with the better shooting we should be getting

 

[Hungryhusky99]

That's my guess as well. Initially I figured a lot of the 1 big lineups were with Gaffney, but the numbers are similar with Gaffney and with Cole. So my guess now is we're getting worse rebounding numbers with the smaller lineup, and Polley/Hawkins aren't making up for it with the better shooting we should be getting

The first half yesterday was so frustrating because they both got a lot of the looks we want them to get and I think they combined for 3 points. The first half against Marquette they were both making shots and we looked like such a different team. I really believe how far we can go depends on the shot making of these 2 and hopefully something will click on this homestand, it has seemed to me at least that Hawkins has shot the ball much better at home.

 

[navery12]

The first half yesterday was so frustrating because they both got a lot of the looks we want them to get and I think they combined for 3 points. The first half against Marquette they were both making shots and we looked like such a different team. I really believe how far we can go depends on the shot making of these 2 and hopefully something will click on this homestand, it has seemed to me at least that Hawkins has shot the ball much better at home.

Hawkins has shot 30% from 3 in away games and 34% at home so not a huge difference there but definitely better. From 2 though, he's 13/23 at home and 1/16 on the road, so definitely true.

 

[auror]

Hawkins...is 1/16 [from 2] on the road, so definitely true.

Wow.

 

[auror]

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

Pretty simple, the 2 of them plus Martin makes us the best offensive rebounding team in the country.

With both Sanogo and Whaley we have a 38.8% offensive rebounding rate, which as a team would tie for 1st nationally.
With only one of the two we have a 33.9% offensive rebounding rate, which as a team would be ~30th.
With neither we have a 23.4% oreb rate, which is ~300th nationally.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

LOL. Whaley and Sanogo have to play some together, because we only have 3 bigs the coaches trust and the other one is an outside jump shooter.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with the fact that, in terms of just offense, Sanogo and Whaley aren't a great combination. They're not. But they are our two best overall bigs by a large margin. And reality counts for something.

 

[gtcam]

I'm sure you will call for Hurley to be fired if we lose one of those games but I personally think 4-2 in the next six is great. 21-9 for the season is a huge accomplishment given where we were in 2017 and 2018.

I love comparing years and accomplishments- In Calhouns 4th year at UConn in the tough OBE the team went 31-6/12-4 in OBE/Elite 8
He came into a very similar situation at UConn in a more competitive league and when there were very few if any one and done. That is a huge/great accomplishment and I would love to see UConn match that this year.

I don't think Dan Hurley has done a phenomenal job, that's a huge adjective to throw around. If UConn gets to the finals of the NBE tournament and the second weekend of the NCAAs this season he has done a very good job. He recruits with the best coaches in the country, no doubt about it. He wins a NC, we can talk phenomenal.

 

[UofCT]

I love comparing years and accomplishments- In Calhouns 4th year at UConn in the tough OBE the team went 31-6/12-4 in OBE/Elite 8
He came into a very similar situation at UConn in a more competitive league and when there were very few if any one and done. That is a huge/great accomplishment and I would love to see UConn match that this year.

I don't think Dan Hurley has done a phenomenal job, that's a huge adjective to throw around. If UConn gets to the finals of the NBE tournament and the second weekend of the NCAAs this season he has done a very good job. He recruits with the best coaches in the country, no doubt about it. He wins a NC, we can talk phenomenal.

To be fair to Hurley this is his second year coaching UConn in the Big East. He has two years recruiting in this conference not four.

 

[Mike1984]

I love comparing years and accomplishments- In Calhouns 4th year at UConn in the tough OBE the team went 31-6/12-4 in OBE/Elite 8
He came into a very similar situation at UConn in a more competitive league and when there were very few if any one and done. That is a huge/great accomplishment and I would love to see UConn match that this year.

I don't think Dan Hurley has done a phenomenal job, that's a huge adjective to throw around. If UConn gets to the finals of the NBE tournament and the second weekend of the NCAAs this season he has done a very good job. He recruits with the best coaches in the country, no doubt about it. He wins a NC, we can talk phenomenal.

So if we don’t get to the finals of the NBE tournament and then don’t make the second weekend, he sucks? How many times did Calhoun not make the finals of the BE or the second weekend of the tourney? Your bar is way to high, come back down to reality!
For comparison, Patrick Ewing won the NBE tourney last year, he must be a good coach.

 

[3rdbass]

Wow.

Yeah that surprised me too but he was dreadful from 2 on Sunday against St. John's.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

The Marquette road win is safely a Q1 unless they lose like all their remaining games

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I'm all for separating Whaley and Sanogo and I still kind of feel like it needs to happen. But the reality is that our offensive numbers are much better with both on the floor than with one. I have no idea how because it doesn't seem that way at all, but we now have a 25 game sample where it's happened

Five years from now, there will be a lot fewer people arguing that "smaller is better" in basketball. This year, as last year, the data for UConn is overwhelming that basketball is a sport that has a height advantage. 5 out offenses are actually very inefficient, because it is easy for defenses to rotate to shooters along the perimeter if they don't have to defend the middle, cutters and dribble penetration from 20+ feet out to the basket is easy to defend, and offensive rebounds are the highest expected value shots on the court.

The funny thing is that you actually end up with worse 3 point shooting in 5 out sets than you do in 4 or 3 out sets, yet the rationale for playing 5 out is to get more 3's.

 

[wheelerdog]

In today's NET rankings, UCONN checks in at 18, and Marquette at 30.

UConn is 3-6 in Quad 1 games, and 5-1 vs Quad 2.

If Marquette slides one spot down, we only have two Quad 1 wins. So Marquette needs to keep winning!

As we approach seeding and tourney talk, there is perhaps too much emphasis placed on Quad 1 wins. Useful, but kind of quirky.

I imagine the committee also looks at the summation of Quad 1 plus Quad 2, where we excel.

Of course we have ample chances to add more Q1 wins to the resume in the coming weeks. Sure is nice being in the Big East!

This is why the Villanova game, and too an extent Xavier, are so important