Fall Practice Thread

[Mr. French]

Maybe he just learned how to pass better (that’s obviously what happened).

Because they JUST STARTED telling him to get better! Duhhhh

It hasn’t dawned on the entire staff to work on his handle and guard skills, they waited til Feb of soph year to start helping him develop.

 

[HW611]

Because they JUST STARTED telling him to get better! Duhhhh

It hasn’t dawned on the entire staff to work on his handle and guard skills, they waited til Feb of soph year to start helping him develop.

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

 

[superjohn]

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

They moved Andre to the dunker spot because teams were packing it in on us and daring him to shoot. It wasn't because he had a new skill the staff never knew about until midway thru his junior season.

You can't possibly think the staff was telling Adama to never pass and then a lightbulb went off with them that passing is a good thing.

 

[HW611]

You can't possibly think the staff was telling Adama to never pass and then a lightbulb went off with them that passing is a good thing.

The inverse is the staff was telling Adams to pass the ball and Adama was just ignoring them.

Do you think Sanogo was ignoring the staff by never attempting to pass the ball at their requests before then?

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

In games 1-18 Andre averaged 6.1 FGA/gm

In 19-36 he averaged 6.3 FGA/gm.

Andre never became aggressive as an offensive option, and that issue plagues him in the NBA today.

 

[Mr. French]

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

The difference is you say for a fact they haven’t worked on these things until BOOM now they decide. That’s not how basketball works. You don’t know if it’s the case but you claim it is.

A guy not passing or not being aggressive or not handling well, then that skill changing, does not indicate for a fact that the coaches weren’t working on these things.

You’re very narrow-focused in these conversations.

They moved Andre to the dunker spot because teams were packing it in on us and daring him to shoot. It wasn't because he had a new skill the staff never knew about until midway thru his junior season.

You can't possibly think the staff was telling Adama to never pass and then a lightbulb went off with them that passing is a good thing.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[Mr. French]

The inverse is the staff was telling Adams to pass the ball and Adama was just ignoring them.

Do you think Sanogo was ignoring the staff by never attempting to pass the ball at their requests before then?

Sometimes in a game you do things you’re not necessarily trying to do, then you fix it.

Often times with the coaches continuously emphasizing it.

 

[Mr. French]

This is wild.

 

[SoCalCanine]

One thing that 611 seems not to realize is that Hurley and staff are more focused on TEAM development. After all Hurley is not Caliparii, who puts INDIVIDUAL accomplishments above team success. Dan and staff of course work on individual development also, just not to the point that it detracts from team success. They still seem to manage getting a substantial amount of players to the NBA and other pro leagues and their team success should speak for itself.

 

[HW611]

In games 1-18 Andre averaged 6.1 FGA/gm

In 19-36 he averaged 6.3 FGA/gm.

Andre never became aggressive as an offensive option, and that issue plagues him in the NBA today.

The stat you should be looking up is 2PA per game.

I’ve already looked at the box scores so I know there’s a stark difference in the amount of 2s he took from 1/25 on. But I’d be curious to see what the actual number was if you have it.

 

[Hunt for 7]

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

On Adama: There is a difference between telling a player if you pass make sure it serves a purpose and you are confident that you are seeing enough of the floor that you don’t turn a pass into a turnover. Than just saying hey you stink at passing so never pass the ball.

Then in practice the player starts to hone this part of his craft then he has the confidence to make meaningful possession changing passes during a game without having to worry about whether it is going to work or not.

Letting players develop and become confident enough to take certain things into a game is what coaching is all about.

The comment on AJ do you really think the coaches did not know his skill set until halfway through his junior year? They just needed to figure out how to maximize it and make it fit with what they were asking the other 4 players on the floor to do.

 

[Mr. French]

On Adama: There is a difference between telling a player if you pass make sure it serves a purpose and you are confident that you are seeing enough of the floor that you don’t turn a pass into a turnover. Than just saying hey you stink at passing so never pass the ball.

Then in practice the player starts to hone this part of his craft then he has the confidence to make meaningful possession changing passes during a game without having to worry about whether it is going to work or not.

Letting players develop and become confident enough to take certain things into a game is what coaching is all about.

The comment on AJ do you really think the coaches did not know his skill set until halfway through his junior year? They just needed to figure out how to maximize it and make it fit with what they were asking the other 4 players on the floor to do.

He looks at things incredibly black and white.

Apparentlt they just started focusing on these things, and voila! The player gets better. And he pumps his chest saying “I TOLD YOU TO DEVELOP THAT SKILL!”

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

If this is a bit it’s on par with the guy who does Chief.

 

[HW611]

On Adama: There is a difference between telling a player if you pass make sure it serves a purpose and you are confident that you are seeing enough of the floor that you don’t turn a pass into a turnover. Than just saying hey you stink at passing so never pass the ball.

Then in practice the player starts to hone this part of his craft then he has the confidence to make meaningful possession changing passes during a game without having to worry about whether it is going to work or not.

Letting players develop and become confident enough to take certain things into a game is what coaching is all about.

The comment on AJ do you really think the coaches did not know his skill set until halfway through his junior year? They just needed to figure out how to maximize it and make it fit with what they were asking the other 4 players on the floor to do.

If you all want to think that Adama was on a Goku chamber developing his passing skills were perfect to show it then go for it. I’m not believing he just held out on passing at a coaches request until he was ready to do it. That just sounds silly.

On Andre, for three years the staff tried to make him a jump shooter and that was their only focus for him offensively. Once it started failing so bad that we went on that losing streak they scrapped it and pretty much used the Seton Hall gameplan for him which was just… cutting to the rim.

People on this board was ready to have Andre benched simply because we were misusing him lol

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I think you’re over exaggerating with the ocean thing as well. If his handles are improved that’s a pretty big step in itself to be able to do it for him. His handles in general would open up so much to his game (which is why it’s so frustrating that it was so bad at this point and hopefully it’s much improved this year).

In my humble opinion, it’s not just his handles that are keeping him from being a PG in college and certainly not the pros. I think you dramatically oversimplify how easy it is to just teach anyone PG skills, which is a bit odd given you consistently blast Hurley for not being able to develop PGs.

 

[Hunt for 7]

If you all want to think that Adama was on a Goku chamber developing his passing skills were perfect to show it then go for it. I’m not believing he just held out on passing at a coaches request until he was ready to do it. That just sounds silly.

On Andre, for three years the staff tried to make him a jump shooter and that was their only focus for him offensively. Once it started failing so bad that we went on that losing streak they scrapped it and pretty much used the Seton Hall gameplan for him which was just… cutting to the rim.

People on this board was ready to have Andre benched simply because we were misusing him lol

Have you ever gotten better at anything by doing it more. For example if you golf are you just as good a golfer the first time you played or are better after playing for a few years.

Now I understand there is a ceiling but name just one human being that was better at something the first time they did it than they are after doing it for years.

Because that is kind of your position with this. There is no development curve there is just you are good at it or you are not. And if you a good at it at and not doing it that is because your coach is telling you not to do it.

 

[superjohn]

If this is a bit it’s on par with the guy who does Chief.

Now he's saying for three years all the staff ever focused on offensively with Andre was making him a jump shooter.

He's also relentlessly blamed the staff for not making Andre a shooter which has kept him from having success in the NBA.

 

[Hunt for 7]

If you all want to think that Adama was on a Goku chamber developing his passing skills were perfect to show it then go for it. I’m not believing he just held out on passing at a coaches request until he was ready to do it. That just sounds silly.

This sounds like Cruise cross examining Nicholson in A Few Good Men.

Soldiers follow orders on a frontline or people die so yes they follow orders all the time. Ok then if you ordered no Code Red then why did it happen if soldiers always follow orders.

Of course we all understand in real life always and never do not exist.

 

[knicksin7]

Maybe those long arms don't translate to tight handle, listed at 7 foot.

Interesting point. Do longer armed players have worse shooting percentage or ball handling? I could see it either way

 

[HW611]

Have you ever gotten better at anything by doing it more. For example if you golf are you just as good a golfer the first time you played or are better after playing for a few years.

Now I understand there is a ceiling but name just one human being that was better at something the first time they did it than they are after doing it for years.

Because that is kind of your position with this. There is no development curve there is just you are good at it or you are not. And if you a good at it at and not doing it that is because your coach is telling you not to do it.

I actually agree with this premise here which is why I think it was more of an ask than a skill thing.

When Adama started to pass the ball he did it just fine. It wasn’t this thing where he tried to do it and got better over time. He just started… doing it. It wasn’t a skill thing rather than him just actually trying to do it.

I actually push for our kids to do things they aren’t good if it’s something they’ll need to do so we can actually see that progression… like if we’re going to watch Solo have more ball handling and playmaking duties there will be times he struggles but he’ll be getting better because he’s actually being asked to do it.

Now he's saying for three years all the staff ever focused on offensively with Andre was making him a jump shooter.

He's also relentlessly blamed the staff for not making Andre a shooter which has kept him from having success in the NBA.

lol at you saying I blamed the staff for, out of all things, not making Andre a shooter.

That literally goes against my entire brand on this board to care about somebodies shooting.

Gotta come up with a better lie.

 

[HooperScooper]

Maybe those long arms don't translate to tight handle, listed at 7 foot.

Wouldn't having longer arms help with your handle? Your hands are lower to the ground so the dribble isn't as high. Maybe I'm off base on this.

 

[SoCalCanine]

Wouldn't having longer arms help with your handle? Your hands are lower to the ground so the dribble isn't as high. Maybe I'm off base on this.

It could be a farther from your body thing? I can see both points having validity.

 

[RuffRuff]

Wouldn't having longer arms help with your handle? Your hands are lower to the ground so the dribble isn't as high. Maybe I'm off base on this.

Ask yourself this - which position on the floor typically has the best handle? Then ask yourself, what is usually the smallest position on the floor? Are they the same position?

No, longer arms don't help. You want your dribble to be compact and close to the body, faster hand to ball cycle. Have you ever seen a center try to dribble coast to coast? It looks ridiculous and really easy to steal the ball because of distance from the body & slow hand to ball cycle.

 

[REB1094]

Late to the party but Solo actually does have a tight handle. He’s never been primary playmaker but he was able to get the ball into the offense without turning it over and even tossing in some between the leg or behind the back dribbling. The handle is solid

In between the swarm of him coming off screens for threes, I don’t remember him consistently using those moves to get by a defender and swinging it to the open man, or running a fast break to get other guys shots. Those are the PG skills he doesn’t have, not handles

I would agree his NBA calling card is to play CG, not just SG. I think I’ve said it before here but if he develops just basic PG skills on top of his shooting, that’s a much more interesting prospect. If he doesn't, we’ll still be an amazing team and he’ll be competing for All BE teams, but the NBA upside is more limited

6’6 Jordan Hawkins was projected first round/lottery most of the year and made 106 threes at 38.8% (16.2 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.8 APG). 6’3 Solo, in the same role, wasn’t on draft boards after making 99 threes at 41.4% (14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.6 APG). Positional size matters for the next step

 

[RuffRuff]

Late to the party but Solo actually does have a tight handle. He’s never been primary playmaker but he was able to get the ball into the offense without turning it over and even tossing in some between the leg or behind the back dribbling. The handle is solid

In between the swarm of him coming off screens for threes, I don’t remember him consistently using those moves to get by a defender and swinging it to the open man, or running a fast break to get other guys shots. Those are the PG skills he doesn’t have, not handles

I would agree his NBA calling card is to play CG, not just SG. I think I’ve said it before here but if he develops just basic PG skills on top of his shooting, that’s a much more interesting prospect. If he doesn't, we’ll still be an amazing team and he’ll be competing for All BE teams, but the NBA upside is more limited

6’6 Jordan Hawkins was projected first round/lottery most of the year and made 106 threes at 38.8% (16.2 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.8 APG). 6’3 Solo, in the same role, wasn’t on draft boards after making 99 threes at 41.4% (14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.6 APG). Positional size matters for the next step

Hawkins had height and could elevate, quickly, over a defender.

Solo will never be a PG. Disagree he has a tight handle, at least he didn't last year. His way to the NBA will be an ability to stave off the close out with some ability to consistently create off the dribble, whether that be a middy game (which he started showing), or by taking it to the rim (which he struggled with). AND showing some ability to stay in front of his man as a defender. I don't care what he shoots from 3, at the NBA at 6'3" (in shoes), you're not going to do much as just a shooter who can't defend.

 

[imno1]

Late to the party but Solo actually does have a tight handle. He’s never been primary playmaker but he was able to get the ball into the offense without turning it over and even tossing in some between the leg or behind the back dribbling. The handle is solid

In between the swarm of him coming off screens for threes, I don’t remember him consistently using those moves to get by a defender and swinging it to the open man, or running a fast break to get other guys shots. Those are the PG skills he doesn’t have, not handles

I would agree his NBA calling card is to play CG, not just SG. I think I’ve said it before here but if he develops just basic PG skills on top of his shooting, that’s a much more interesting prospect. If he doesn't, we’ll still be an amazing team and he’ll be competing for All BE teams, but the NBA upside is more limited

6’6 Jordan Hawkins was projected first round/lottery most of the year and made 106 threes at 38.8% (16.2 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.8 APG). 6’3 Solo, in the same role, wasn’t on draft boards after making 99 threes at 41.4% (14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.6 APG). Positional size matters for the next step

Did Hawkins grow a few inches?

 

[REB1094]

Hawkins had height and could elevate, quickly, over a defender.

Solo will never be a PG. Disagree he has a tight handle, at least he didn't last year. His way to the NBA will be an ability to stave off the close out with some ability to consistently create off the dribble, whether that be a middy game (which he started showing), or by taking it to the rim (which he struggled with). AND showing some ability to stay in front of his man as a defender. I don't care what he shoots from 3, at the NBA at 6'3" (in shoes), you're not going to do much as just a shooter who can't defend.

For what it’s worth, the only players drafted in the first round last year who were under 6’5 (I incorrectly said before Hawkins was 6’6):

7. Jeremiah Fears (6’4 PG)
18. Walter Clayton (6’2 PG, F4 MOP)
19. Nolan Traore (6’4, 19 year old international but I think a PG or CG)
25. Jase Richardson (6’0 SG, or was he a CG with the other Fears brother?)

There were a lot the year before that - Reed Sheppard, Rob Dillingham, Devin Carter, Bub Carrington, Jared McCain, Isaiah Collier. But mostly freshman and mostly guys that played some PG/CG (exception being Devin Carter)

I’m sure there are a lot of really good scorers in college at 6’3 that can shoot and create off the dribble but NBA teams don’t seem to be taking them first round unless they also play some PG

We have 3 PGs (two being REALLY strong) so forcing Solo to play PG won’t maximize the team’s success. He’ll be in the same role + more scoring versatility. If he does really well expanding his game and the team is successful, he probably is on draft boards. But I don’t know many successful 6’3 NBA players who can’t play a little PG

 

[jibsey]

For what it’s worth, the only players drafted in the first round last year who were under 6’5 (I incorrectly said before Hawkins was 6’6):

7. Jeremiah Fears (6’4 PG)
18. Walter Clayton (6’2 PG, F4 MOP)
19. Nolan Traore (6’4, 19 year old international but I think a PG or CG)
25. Jase Richardson (6’0 SG, or was he a CG with the other Fears brother?)

There were a lot the year before that - Reed Sheppard, Rob Dillingham, Devin Carter, Bub Carrington, Jared McCain, Isaiah Collier. But mostly freshman and mostly guys that played some PG/CG (exception being Devin Carter)

I’m sure there are a lot of really good scorers in college at 6’3 that can shoot and create off the dribble but NBA teams don’t seem to be taking them first round unless they also play some PG

We have 3 PGs (two being REALLY strong) so forcing Solo to play PG won’t maximize the team’s success. He’ll be in the same role + more scoring versatility. If he does really well expanding his game and the team is successful, he probably is on draft boards. But I don’t know many successful 6’3 NBA players who can’t play a little PG

Shooting guards do point guard stuff all of the time whether they are called point guard or not and I’m sure Solo will.

 

[87Xfer]

It’s the same way they didn’t start telling Andre to be aggressive finishing and cutting until halfway through his junior year (when we were losing games because he couldn’t make 3s) or when they didn’t push for Sanogo to pass the ball more until that year as well.

Even though everyone on the board saw Sanogo being a black hole when he got the ball for awhile. There’s a pattern of these things man. If you don’t agree fine but I’ll say my perspective on this pattern I see with our player development.

You're just making stuff up at this point. You have no idea what or when the staff tells players.

 

[navery12]

What HW611 thinks he looks like in this thread:

What HW611 actually looks like in this thread: