ESPN's Way Too Early Rankings -- UConn moves up!

[jonson]

You beat me to it.

Getting 5 different teams in the Final Four in a 6-year period is truly amazing. And again, this is from a 12-team conference, not these 15-team Frankensteins that still call themselves conferences.

Thank you! This is a point that too often is overlooked. With some others, I likewise think that the conference will be even stronger this year with the continuing improvement of Arizona.

That said, I believe that it's also been the case that the Pac12 has been for some time now a conference with a number of very good teams, but no great ones--or at least no teams that could be considered a legitimate contender for a national title barring a fairly major upset or two. To me, last year's Oregon team was the strongest to come out of the conference in some time, but the loss of Chavez and late-season injury to Hebard (not to mention the loss of the younger Sabally--first time--before the season even started) diminished their chances considerably, although, as a homer, I'll add that, despite that, they played
Baylor cum Cox tougher than anyone else last season. This year, Prince's availability and/or some substantial contributions up front from Cochrane and Giomi will be crucial.

 

[Waquoit]

At this point, UConn should always be in the Top 4, until they are not. Putting six teams above UConn was disrespectful.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Why?

2 words: Paige Bueckers.

 

[noirwestern]

Has Geno ever coached a team with a decided lack of height? I think the UConn fans are underestimating the impact their lack of height may have on the season. Especially if Westbrook doesn't get her waiver.

I suppose it's possible that UConn might have a problem with taller teams but as a general rule? Not so much.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Would you say that about the ACC Men's basketball conference? PAC-12 WBB is the up and coming conference in WCBB. I believe we will see a WCBB National Champion come from the PAC-12 in the next few years, if not this coming season.

deflection is ploy used by those with no defense

 

[LoTrader]

deflection is ploy used by those with no defense

This inability to respond to solid logic is the purest example of deflection.

 

[LoTrader]

2 words: Paige Bueckers.

Hanging a nat

2 words: Paige Bueckers.

No doubt Paige Bueckers is impressive. I presume there are others UCONN players in addition to Paige Bueckers that give you this confidence that all other NCAA WBB Teams should play for 2nd place? Serious expectations to hang on one recruit.

 

[HuskylnSC]

This inability to respond to solid logic is a pure example of deflection.

I believe the discussion, and my comment, was about the PAC-12 not AAC. Instead of defending your beloved, you tried to criticize another group. I just pointed out the deflection. So in the nature of your response listen to this, 'Your Mama wears combat boots!"

 

[LoTrader]

I believe the discussion, and my comment, was about the PAC-12 not AAC. Instead of defending your beloved, you tried to criticize another group. I just pointed out the deflection. So in the nature of your response listen to this, 'Your Mama wears combat boots!"

I believe my example was the Men's ACC (not AAC). And I wasn't criticizing the Men's ACC? I was using this basketball conference as a mirror of the Women's PAC-12 conference. It is now clear to me that you mis-understood.

 

[oldude]

I believe the discussion, and my comment, was about the PAC-12 not AAC. Instead of defending your beloved, you tried to criticize another group. I just pointed out the deflection. So in the nature of your response listen to this, 'Your Mama wears combat boots!"

I believe my example was the Men's ACC (not AAC). And I wasn't criticizing the Men's ACC? I was using this basketball conference as a mirror of the Women's PAC-12 conference. It is now clear to me that you mis-understood.

Well, there’s one thing that’s reasonably certain. The AAC will not be winning any WBB National Championships anytime in the near future following the 2019-20 season....

 

[soxfan23]

Why?

Because after this season UConn is about ready to go on one of their 4 or 5 year NC runs.

 

[soxfan23]

No doubt Paige Bueckers is impressive. I presume there are others UCONN players in addition to Paige Bueckers that give you this confidence that all other NCAA WBB Teams should play for 2nd place? Serious expectations to hang on one recruit.

Yes, there certainly are.

Bueckers #1
Williams #1
Westbrook #2
Walker #1
Nelson-Ododa #5

Bench
McClean #32(will be Top 20 by graduation)
Makurat
Muhl Top international player
Griffin #21
??????????
??????????

2021
Poffenbarger #21(Many feel she will be ranked higher)
Fudd???
DeBerry???

 

[Argonaut]

Yes, there certainly are.

Bueckers #1
Williams #1
Westbrook #2
Walker #1
Nelson-Ododa #5

Bench
McClean #32(will be Top 20 by graduation)
Makurat
Muhl Top international player
Griffin #21
??????????
??????????

2021
Poffenbarger #21(Many feel she will be ranked higher)
Fudd???
DeBerry???

This makes my heart sing.

 

[TheFarmFan]

The right WCBB experts know about her. Look where she is predicted to go in next year's WNBA draft.

2020 WNBA Mock Draft - WNBA - DraftSite.com
2020 WNBA mock draft: Big Board 2.0 with team projections

Who lives in the "biased, unreal world"?

Pretty dang cool that nearly half of the projected first round draft picks are playing college ball in the state of Oregon. A decade ago those schools having even two picks combined would have been unthinkable. Real, real testament to what Rueck and Graves have built.

 

[LoTrader]

Yes, there certainly are.

Bueckers #1
Williams #1
Westbrook #2
Walker #1
Nelson-Ododa #5

Bench
McClean #32(will be Top 20 by graduation)
Makurat
Muhl Top international player
Griffin #21
??????????
??????????

2021
Poffenbarger #21(Many feel she will be ranked higher)
Fudd???
DeBerry???

Impressive for sure. I also think UO and Stanford's future looks pretty darn bright from a recruiting perspective. Point being, the NCAA WCBB scene is a lot more balanced than ever before. I don't see any team going on a 4-5 year NC run in the next decade. I know UCONN will be in the mix, per usual, but I believe the field of legitimate contenders is growing, not shrinking, over the next decade.

 

[Alydar]

Would you say that about the ACC Men's basketball conference? PAC-12 WBB is the up and coming conference in WCBB. I believe we will see a WCBB National Champion come from the PAC-12 in the next few years, if not this coming season.

What I have noticed is that fans of programs that haven't won a title like to brag about their conference. I can understand your excitement but is the "rise" you see at least in part a shift in the balance of power.

You will likely get a lot more support from me later in the season, about the west coast but it's a little early to brag about what hasn't yet happened.

 

[Alydar]

You beat me to it.

Getting 5 different teams in the Final Four in a 6-year period is truly amazing. And again, this is from a 12-team conference, not these 15-team Frankensteins that still call themselves conferences.

Or it could be that there simply is a dearth of FF caliber teams but 4 teams have to make it.

I enjoy PAC12 wbb games but I think that among the P5's it is the best of a not so great group. Another point about all those FF's is that the top seeded PAC12 team (either a 1 or 2) gets to stay out west EVERY YEAR. The West regional is always the furthest site for any team east of the Mississippi or in Texas so a west coast team seeded as the 4th best or 8th best still gets to stay in the west and gain the home crowd against any eastern team often getting to play in a familiar arena. A significant edge and responsible for some of those 5 teams making it there. I remember one year when Duke and I assume Stan were contending for the last one seed. They gave it to Duke and the Tree fans were livid. I asked them if they would be happier if they were the one seed if it meant playing in Durham, which is what Duke was faced with. Not one of them had an answer. Stanford was going to be in the west regional no matter what and whether it was a a one or two made no difference. (Stan beat Duke in the E8)

 

[nwhoopfan]

Or it could be that there simply is a dearth of FF caliber teams but 4 teams have to make it.

I enjoy PAC12 wbb games but I think that among the P5's it is the best of a not so great group. Another point about all those FF's is that the top seeded PAC12 team (either a 1 or 2) gets to stay out west EVERY YEAR. The West regional is always the furthest site for any team east of the Mississippi or in Texas so a west coast team seeded as the 4th best or 8th best still gets to stay in the west and gain the home crowd against any eastern team often getting to play in a familiar arena. A significant edge and responsible for some of those 5 teams making it there. I remember one year when Duke and I assume Stan were contending for the last one seed. They gave it to Duke and the Tree fans were livid. I asked them if they would be happier if they were the one seed if it meant playing in Durham, which is what Duke was faced with. Not one of them had an answer. Stanford was going to be in the west regional no matter what and whether it was a a one or two made no difference. (Stan beat Duke in the E8)

Hold on a minute. On their way to the Final 4 Washington beat both Maryland and Kentucky on their home floor. Oregon St. beat Tennessee in Knoxville and has beaten Baylor in both Dallas and OKC. Come to think of it Oregon and UCLA have also beaten Maryland on their home floor. So ONE Pac 12 team gets to play close to home, everybody else gets shipped all over the country yet they have won plenty of games, as lower seeded teams in the last few years. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this concern.

 

[LoTrader]

What I have noticed is that fans of programs that haven't won a title like to brag about their conference. I can understand your excitement but is the "rise" you see at least in part a shift in the balance of power.

You will likely get a lot more support from me later in the season, about the west coast but it's a little early to brag about what hasn't yet happened.

I don't see how its bragging, as the facts support the statements about the PAC-12's "rise" over the last 4-5 years. I'm not sure what you mean by " I think that among the P5's it is the best of a not so great group"?

 

[TheFarmFan]

Or it could be that there simply is a dearth of FF caliber teams but 4 teams have to make it.

I enjoy PAC12 wbb games but I think that among the P5's it is the best of a not so great group. Another point about all those FF's is that the top seeded PAC12 team (either a 1 or 2) gets to stay out west EVERY YEAR. The West regional is always the furthest site for any team east of the Mississippi or in Texas so a west coast team seeded as the 4th best or 8th best still gets to stay in the west and gain the home crowd against any eastern team often getting to play in a familiar arena. A significant edge and responsible for some of those 5 teams making it there.

With respect, I feel like this analysis is really short on facts, and its claims don't actually fit the data. Here's the data for the past 5 tournaments:

In 2015, no PAC-12 teams made the Final Four. #4 Stanford was the auto-bid and was sent to Kentucky, #3 Oregon State was the only PAC-12 team to be in the West region (Spokane) and was rewarded with a second-round game against a dangerous #11 Gonzaga that upset them.
In 2016, #7 Washington got to the Final Four by beating #4 Stanford in Kentucky. #2 auto-bid Oregon State was rewarded for its conference title by having to upset #1 Baylor IN TEXAS to get to the Final Four.
In 2017, Autobid #2 Stanford upset #1 Notre Dame in Kentucky, a state which borders Indiana...
In 2018, no PAC-12 made the Final Four. 2/3 Elite Eight teams (#3 UCLA and #6 Oregon State) got there by upsetting higher ranked teams back East (UCLA beat #2 Texas in Missouri, one state over from Texas, and Oregon State beat Baylor in Kentucky).
In 2019, #2 Stanford was the auto-bid and was reward with a trip to Chicago against #1 Notre Dame (very close to a home game for the Domers). #2 Oregon got to stay in the Portland regional. That's probably the only game in all five season where region significantly benefited a PAC-12 team in an unfair way (i.e., the lower seeded PAC-12 benefited from geography - and even there, I think most people thought Oregon was a better team than MSU and they only ended up #2 because Stanford edged them in the PAC-12 championship game).

I remember one year when Duke and I assume Stan were contending for the last one seed. They gave it to Duke and the Tree fans were livid. I asked them if they would be happier if they were the one seed if it meant playing in Durham, which is what Duke was faced with. Not one of them had an answer. Stanford was going to be in the west regional no matter what and whether it was a a one or two made no difference. (Stan beat Duke in the E8)

I don't know what year you have in mind, but the last time this happened Stanford was the auto-bid and a #1 seed with a 31-1 record and Duke was a #2 at-large that went 24-5. I'm pretty sure Stanford deserved the West #1 seed over Duke. If you're remembering a different year before 2012, then you're talking about the PAC-10 era, and therefore not the era any of the rest of us is talking about, which is the past 5-6 seasons.

 

[triaddukefan]

Or it could be that there simply is a dearth of FF caliber teams but 4 teams have to make it.

I enjoy PAC12 wbb games but I think that among the P5's it is the best of a not so great group. Another point about all those FF's is that the top seeded PAC12 team (either a 1 or 2) gets to stay out west EVERY YEAR. The West regional is always the furthest site for any team east of the Mississippi or in Texas so a west coast team seeded as the 4th best or 8th best still gets to stay in the west and gain the home crowd against any eastern team often getting to play in a familiar arena. A significant edge and responsible for some of those 5 teams making it there. I remember one year when Duke and I assume Stan were contending for the last one seed. They gave it to Duke and the Tree fans were livid. I asked them if they would be happier if they were the one seed if it meant playing in Durham, which is what Duke was faced with. Not one of them had an answer. Stanford was going to be in the west regional no matter what and whether it was a a one or two made no difference. (Stan beat Duke in the E8)

The year you are referring to is 2009..... Duke was the #1, Stanford was the #2..... but Duke lost to Michigan State on MSU's home floor in the second round. I think Stanford beat Iowa State in the Regional Final that year. The year that Duke and Stanford met in the Regional Final was 2013...... Stanford was the #1 and Duke was the #2.... that game was played in Fresno.

 

[Ex Nutmegger]

Prospects Nation has Poffenbarger at Number 6.

Yep, that’s 6 without a 1 In front of it!

The others will have her up in that neighborhood by Thanksgiving.

 

[Gate81]

The year you are referring to is 2009..... Duke was the #1, Stanford was the #2..... but Duke lost to Michigan State on MSU's home floor in the second round. I think Stanford beat Iowa State in the Regional Final that year. The year that Duke and Stanford met in the Regional Final was 2013. Stanford was the #1 and Duke was the #2.... that game was played in Fresno.

Yeah, attended that one and while I was cheering for Stanford, still disappointed that Chelsea Gray was unable to play for Duke.

 

[Alydar]

The year you are referring to is 2009..... Duke was the #1, Stanford was the #2..... but Duke lost to Michigan State on MSU's home floor in the second round. I think Stanford beat Iowa State in the Regional Final that year. The year that Duke and Stanford met in the Regional Final was 2013. Stanford was the #1 and Duke was the #2.... that game was played in Fresno.

Thanks for the accurate information. While recently OSU, Wash & Or have gone to the FF and it was a promising sign when they both made it, it's been Stanford that has been holding up the conference. And most of those years they were the one or two seed. If they were the 1 they got the worst of the four 2 seeds to face in the E8. If they were the 2 seed they got the 4th 1 seed. Not a decisive factor, but an edge.

Five years from now the PAC12 could conceivably have 3 teams in the FF. But as long as UConn is the 4th, I say let's rumble.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yeah, attended that one and while I was cheering for Stanford, still disappointed that Chelsea Gray was unable to play for Duke.

Actually it was 2012.... and Gray played in that game. She missed the tournaments in 2013 and 2014.

Thanks for the accurate information. While recently OSU, Wash & Or have gone to the FF and it was a promising sign when they both made it, it's been Stanford that has been holding up the conference. And most of those years they were the one or two seed. If they were the 1 they got the worst of the four 2 seeds to face in the E8. If they were the 2 seed they got the 4th 1 seed. Not a decisive factor, but an edge.

Five years from now the PAC12 could conceivably have 3 teams in the FF. But as long as UConn is the 4th, I say let's rumble.

My mistake, actually it was 2012 when Stanford and Duke met in the Regional Final. In the 2008-2009 season... Duke beat Stanford in Durham......... guess that is one reason why they gave Duke the #1 seed out west. If Duke had won the ACC tournament (they lost in OT to maryland in the finals), Duke would have been the #1 seed in Raleigh... and Stanford would have gotten the #1 in the West.