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ESPN's Top 25 For Next Year

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When Diggins departed, all the so-called "expoits" jumped off the ND bandwagon. Same thing happened when McBride left. Now it's Jewell saying bye-bye that causes folks to insist that the Irish have fallen off the elite map. When's everyone gonna give Muffett her obviously deserved due? I think Tenn will be hugely improved, and maybe even second best, but ND will still be right there!
 
Orangutan said:
I'm fine with where he's put Tenn. but they have a lot to prove to me. When I watched them this year, their tendency was to bog down into players taking turns going 1-on-5. That worries me because that also seems to be DeShields preferred method of playing basketball. If it all comes together, they will be special but I could see it going either way.
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However, she's really really good at it. And for most teams they play, that should be enough.
 
meyers7 said:
However, she's really really good at it. And for most teams they play, that should be enough.
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Yeah, they'll get away with not playing team offense just like they did most of this year. But it will matter when it comes to the elite 8 and getting them over the hump and back to the final four.
 
Back in the day when widespread hope existed on this Board that Diamond would play for UConn, her abundant talents were extravagantly recognized. Interesting how she suddenly became a less-valued commodity when she elected to go elsewhere. Sorry, but she's the real deal, as is that Freshman guard Tenn has coming in....they will be formidable, and, even if Vol-hate is in our collective DNA, Holly will do just fine with them. I put them and ND ahead of SC for next year.
 
meyers7 said:
However, she's really really good at it. And for most teams they play, that should be enough.
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Yes with her talent and skill level. I think she will be The best player at Tennssee since Parker.The opponents will have to know where she is. The other thing is having Russell back. A fully healthy player who can score and block shots. I think we will see why she was the top ranked player out of HS. Even ranked ahead of Diamond.
 
Bigpetunia said:
Back in the day when widespread hope existed on this Board that Diamond would play for UConn, her abundant talents were extravagantly recognized. Interesting how she suddenly became a less-valued commodity when she elected to go elsewhere. Sorry, but she's the real deal, as is that Freshman guard Tenn has coming in....they will be formidable, and, even if Vol-hate is in our collective DNA, Holly will do just fine with them. I put them and ND ahead of SC for next year.
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I like to think I've been skeptical of DeShields since before it was cool.
 
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Orangutan said:
I had the same thought. FSU loses basically just Conwright, who is good but not a massive loss. He's ignoring what FSU's returning players have already done while giving Louisville's freshman credit before they even step on campus.

I also think Duke is too low. There's some serious "Ewing Theory" potential with Elizabeth Williams and having more than one guard who can actually handle the ball will be an immense help for them.
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I put FSU at 6...... but after thinking about it..... I probably would have them at 5 ahead of MD. Romero is at worst the 3rd best PG in the country next year.

Im not sure what "Ewing Theory" means...:confused: But I look forward to Duke being a under the radar team next season.
 
Bigpetunia said:
When Diggins departed, all the so-called "expoits" jumped off the ND bandwagon. Same thing happened when McBride left. Now it's Jewell saying bye-bye that causes folks to insist that the Irish have fallen off the elite map. When's everyone gonna give Muffett her obviously deserved due? I think Tenn will be hugely improved, and maybe even second best, but ND will still be right there!
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I agree, though we knew that McBride was talented before Skylar left, and we knew that Loyd was very talented before McBride left. I'm not sure who is the next star player there, especially at guard. But I think that Turner may be an AA next year and Lindsay Allen is really good. My guess is that at least one of the freshman guards will be an impact player early join. My guess is Ogunbowale, because of her aggressiveness. My top 5 are UConn, Baylor, ND, SC, and Tenn. I also agree that Duke MAY be very underrated. They may have been too dependent on Williams, and clearly they were missing guards. Greenwell and Stevens should be very good, and Salvadores could be a star. Can JPM coach them up?
 
triaddukefan said:
I put FSU at 6. but after thinking about it..... I probably would have them at 5 ahead of MD. Romero is at worst the 3rd best PG in the country next year.

Im not sure what "Ewing Theory" means...:confused: But I look forward to Duke being a under the radar team next season.
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It's a Bill Simmons concept: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1193711 The idea is based off the fact that Ewing was a highly-hyped star yet his teams often played better without him. The qualifications for the Ewing Theory are:
  1. A star athlete receives an inordinate amount of media attention and fan interest, and yet his teams never win anything substantial with him (other than maybe some early-round playoff series).
  2. That same athlete leaves his team (either by injury, trade, graduation, free agency or retirement) -- and both the media and fans immediately write off the team for the following season.
 
Orangutan said:
It's a Bill Simmons concept: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1193711 The idea is based off the fact that Ewing was a highly-hyped star yet his teams often played better without him. The qualifications for the Ewing Theory are:
  1. A star athlete receives an inordinate amount of media attention and fan interest, and yet his teams never win anything substantial with him (other than maybe some early-round playoff series).
  2. That same athlete leaves his team (either by injury, trade, graduation, free agency or retirement) -- and both the media and fans immediately write off the team for the following season.
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Good theory. Good article. Williams could be a prime example.
 
Tennessee will have a ton of talent.... Especially with the players they are adding to the roster. What happened with Russell this year???? They make me nervous....
 
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01Neaggrad02 said:
Tennessee will have a ton of talent.... Especially with the players they are adding to the roster. What happened with Russell this year???? They make me nervous....
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Surgery on both her feet. Supposedly, she is back 100%.
 
01Neaggrad02 said:
Tennessee will have a ton of talent.... Especially with the players they are adding to the roster. What happened with Russell this year???? They make me nervous....
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You should be. I think Tennessee will be very good next year. Final Four good. If Warlick doesn't come through with all of that talent on the roster.. her continued employment as HC should seriously be under consideration. Tennessee is STACKED. I am NOT looking forward to playing them next year. They are always pumped up to play SC.
 
DobbsRover2 said:
Always fun to speculate I guess, but in a sport that is famed supposedly for being so "predictable," it's also interesting to see how Creme did with the 2014-15 "way too early" preview, actually done last year in July.

Top 2 in NC: UConn (1 right)
Top 4 who got to FF: UConn, USCar (2 right)
Top 8 who got to E8: UConn, ND, USCar, UTenn (4 right)
Top 16 who got to S16: UConn, ND, USCar, UTenn, Texas, Louisville, Maryland, Duke, Iowa, Baylor, UNC (11 right)

So for the total of 30 prediction associations with final performance, the rate is 60%. Kind of ehhh for such a no-surprises sport. A lot will happen before March rolls around again.
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First, using all of the predictions and adding them together assumes they are of equal value. It is harder to gauge the Sweet 16, as there are a lot of variables, including injuries. It may be predictable at the top, but only at the very top.

11 out of 16 teams correct in the 2015 Sweet 16 when the preview was done in April 2014? That is pretty darn impressive. That was before major transfers were announced. That is before the impact of injuries that take place in the offseason. Give credit where it is due; Crème did a good job with his predictions last year.
 
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stwainfan said:
Yes with her talent and skill level. I think she will be The best player at Tennssee since Parker.The opponents will have to know where she is. The other thing is having Russell back. A fully healthy player who can score and block shots. I think we will see why she was the top ranked player out of HS. Even ranked ahead of Diamond.
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I agree that DD will be the best player at Tenn since Parker, but those are lofty expectations for Russell. If she is back "100%" she still hasn't played up to speed basketball an a entire year. Her freshman year she did some nice things but nothing that screamed best freshman in the world... and I've heard some say it was because she was bothered with her foot but even then that makes what 2 years she's been 100%? I think Russell needs to embrace the defensive anchor role her first season back for Tenn to be a top 3 squad. There will be plenty of shots thrown up in Tenn offense next year. Tenn just needs her to clean up the misses.

I do not expect DD to have a dropoff in her game like some may want to say. The difference between her and Russell is she has been practicing with the team ALL YEAR. She still is in basketball shape. If anything it will take her a month of games if not sooner to officially be back in "game shape"... Does Tenn play Baylor next year? That will be a MUST SEE.
 
BlueDevils said:
I agree that DD will be the best player at Tenn since Parker, but those are lofty expectations for Russell. If she is back "100%" she still hasn't played up to speed basketball an a entire year. Her freshman year she did some nice things but nothing that screamed best freshman in the world... and I've heard some say it was because she was bothered with her foot but even then that makes what 2 years she's been 100%? I think Russell needs to embrace the defensive anchor role her first season back for Tenn to be a top 3 squad. There will be plenty of shots thrown up in Tenn offense next year. Tenn just needs her to clean up the misses.

I do not expect DD to have a dropoff in her game like some may want to say. The difference between her and Russell is she has been practicing with the team ALL YEAR. She still is in basketball shape. If anything it will take her a month of games if not sooner to officially be back in "game shape"... Does Tenn play Baylor next year? That will be a MUST SEE.
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Yes Diamond is a elite athlete. The thing I was saying about Russell. Yes she missed the past season. I think because she is now fully health. We will see a lot more of her game this year. Yes she will get some points on rebounds. At times she will get the ball on offense also. She has been practicing since Janurary.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
First, using all of the predictions and adding them together assumes they are of equal value. It is harder to gauge the Sweet 16, as there are a lot of variables, including injuries. It may be predictable at the top, but only at the very top.

11 out of 16 teams correct in the 2015 Sweet 16 when the preview was done in April 2014? That is pretty darn impressive. That was before major transfers were announced. That is before the impact of injuries that take place in the offseason. Give credit where it is due; Crème did a good job with his predictions last year.
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No as mentioned above, it was done in July, as the Way Too Early series hadn't started yet. So if 60% is considered good for you, that's fine, but it doesn't really impress me enough as a particularly great form of info on the coming season, as likely a blind hyperactive gerbil could pick just as well, maybe better.

We're talking about trotting out the standard P5 team names that filled up the S16 this year to make the 2015-16 preview along with a stray mainstay but early-exiter this year like Kentucky, and of course no non-P5 team other than UConn gets up among that top 16 group (4 nonP5 teams made the S16 in 2014, 3 did this year). The year before for 2014, 11 of Creme's top 16 also made it to the S16, but his #2 team bowed out as you know in the second round. How hard and illuminating is it to shovel out the usual feed in the trough for the masses?

Ehhh, personally I'll wait for the only meaningful prognostication that Creme does, which happens in early March. But as you said, a lot can change just in the summer months, so enjoy the current guesstimates while they still are worth the pixels they're printed with.
 
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DobbsRover2 said:
No as mentioned above, it was done in July, as the Way Too Early series hadn't started yet. So if 60% is considered good for you, that's fine, but it doesn't really impress me enough as a particularly great form of info on the coming season, as likely a blind hyperactive gerbil could pick just as well, maybe better.
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Not true. It was April 24, 2014, confirmed by Way Back and the ESPN archives:

  1. Women's college basketball - A very early look at the Top 25 for ...
    Charlie Creme
    Connecticut is the obvious pick as the top team when the Top 25 rankings are revealed this fall. Until then, we check in with our own Top 25.

    Story | Conversation | April 21, 2014

 
Aside from bad losses to Pitt and OSU, UNC played everyone tough all year long. They have loads of individual talent returning and are a fun team to watch, always trying to get out in transition and displaying wonderful athleticism. Having said that, their half-court game was really not good, and their idea of team play seemed nonexistent. Guards Coleman, Cherry and Washington too often played "out of control." While returning starters Mavunga and Gray were outstanding, watching a UNC game was like watching an undisciplined mish mosh of athletic ballers in a playground pickup game. Judging from the 8 or so games I saw last year, UNC obviously had great athletes and all the requisite ingredients to put them in NC contention, but Hatchell's players (and I think you have to blame the coach) rarely played like a team. A #10-15 ranking is pretty much their ceiling.
[Speaking of UNC, will the NCAA ever punish those cheaters? Sadly,I think not.]
 
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MilfordHusky said:
I agree, though we knew that McBride was talented before Skylar left, and we knew that Loyd was very talented before McBride left. I'm not sure who is the next star player there, especially at guard. But I think that Turner may be an AA next year and Lindsay Allen is really good. My guess is that at least one of the freshman guards will be an impact player early join. My guess is Ogunbowale, because of her aggressiveness. My top 5 are UConn, Baylor, ND, SC, and Tenn. I also agree that Duke MAY be very underrated. They may have been too dependent on Williams, and clearly they were missing guards. Greenwell and Stevens should be very good, and Salvadores could be a star. Can JPM coach them up?
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+1. This is arguably the most talent Duke has ever had from 1-12. With this team we have there should not be anymore "horrible" or "terrible" as acceptable postgame responses. This upcoming team is versatile and there's no reason why this team should feel they can't compete with anyone. Can JPM coach them up?
 
Huskies Rule said:
Aside from bad losses to Pitt and OSU, UNC played everyone tough all year long. They have loads of individual talent returning and are a fun team to watch, always trying to get out in transition and displaying wonderful athleticism. Having said that, their half-court game was really not good, and their idea of team play seemed nonexistent. Guards Coleman, Cherry and Washington too often played "out of control." While returning starters Mavunga and Gray were outstanding, watching a UNC game was like watching an undisciplined mish mosh of athletic ballers in a playground pickup game. Judging from the 8 or so games I saw last year, UNC obviously had great athletes and all the requisite ingredients to put them in NC contention, but Hatchell's players (and I think you have to blame the coach) rarely played like a team. A #10-15 ranking is pretty much their ceiling.
[Speaking of UNC, will the NCAA ever punish those cheaters? Sadly,I think not.]
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The situation seems ripe for a Shea Ralph takeover.
 
Bigpetunia said:
Back in the day when widespread hope existed on this Board that Diamond would play for UConn, her abundant talents were extravagantly recognized. Interesting how she suddenly became a less-valued commodity when she elected to go elsewhere. Sorry, but she's the real deal, as is that Freshman guard Tenn has coming in....they will be formidable, and, even if Vol-hate is in our collective DNA, Holly will do just fine with them. I put them and ND ahead of SC for next year.
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For whatever reason DD got upset and took her act to TN where Holly Warlick is clueless and DD will get to run the TN team for 1 or 2 years till she can run to the pros before her RS year where she won't be able to run the show anymore and learn the coach is the boss not the player! The days of TN going to the Final 4 are over! Stick a fork in them they're done! They're now in the Remember when we used to be great stage!
 
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Huskies Rule- - - -Judging from the 8 or so games I saw last year, UNC obviously had great athletes and all the requisite ingredients to put them in NC contention, but Hatchell's players (and I think you have to blame the coach) rarely played like a team. A #10-15 ranking is pretty much their ceiling.

I lost a lot of respect for Sylvia Hatchell when she said to Holly Rowe several years ago before a UCONN game that, "I don't care if we have a 100 turnovers just as long as we play fast!" That game they had 28 turnovers and lost to UCONN by 30+ points! Great recruiter no clue as a game coach!
 
Orangutan said:
It's a Bill Simmons concept: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1193711 The idea is based off the fact that Ewing was a highly-hyped star yet his teams often played better without him. The qualifications for the Ewing Theory are:
  1. A star athlete receives an inordinate amount of media attention and fan interest, and yet his teams never win anything substantial with him (other than maybe some early-round playoff series).
  2. That same athlete leaves his team (either by injury, trade, graduation, free agency or retirement) -- and both the media and fans immediately write off the team for the following season.
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The theory is so ignorant it should be banned from being posted. Of course UCONN being better without Donyell had everything to do the team just wanting to feed Donyell and nothing to do with Ollie and Marshall and Fair being seniors. Sheffer getting his 3rd year under his belt as a junior. And Ray Allen getting that frosh to soph jump.

I guess all those years ago when the Knicks won a title in 69-70 the series was tied 2-2t down. How silly of us to not recognize the Knicks won despite Reed, and the Ewing Theory should apply to back then too.
 
Some of thoughts:
1. Dobbs - thanks for going back and doing the analysis of Creme from last year - I would say getting 11-16 sweet sixteen teams is pretty impressive - 69%. Getting the exact ranking within that universe is pretty tough.

2. On TN and Diamond - absolutely the most exciting player TN has had since Parker. But, I said this during her freshman year, and after it - do not remember the exact numbers but she took something like 35% of the UNC shots and her shooting percentage was almost 10% worse than the other four starters on the team - her three point percentage was also bad and bad when compared to her more accurate teammates from 3. Loyd and Sims are the two players in recent times that best compare with that kind of weighting in terms of number of shots for a good team and both of them were significantly more accurate. DD on a team with a strong coach teaching her to harness her talent would be scary good - just not sure Holly is that coach - she had players admit to ignoring the coaching staff previously. (And a concern for TN I think is the reportedly strong friendship between Cooper and DD - if the backcourt forms a clique that does their own thing ...)

3. One more thought on TN - they have always preached strong defense, but have been less than stellar at 'team defense'. The help side has frequently been slow or nonexistent. Those are things that really well coached teams late in the NCAA expose.

4. Duke with a backcourt! What a novel concept! Really interested to see what happens for them this year. Stevens was impressive if 'under the radar'.

5. Turner - she and ND will be good. How good depends on the freshman.

6. MD - they were a very young team this year and I think surprised a lot of people. They should be better next year just with maturity and experience and they lost no one.

7. SC - a young team as well, but they did lose some key elements. Should still be good, but I wonder if they haven't peaked.

8. FLSt - out of nowhere but should be contenders again.

9. TX - yeah that was embarrassing - but they saw the mountaintop and they have talent - if they do not have a mid-season swoon they should be better with a better seeding.

10. West coast ... meh. Exciting Pac12 season this past year, but I think exposed in the NCAAs - the story was really Stanford having an off year and not a sudden leap in quality amongst the others.
 
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