ESPN

[TexanMark]

Syracuse lets their players get away with criminal behavior. No exaggeration.

This all sounds good until you realize the Bernie Fine Story was all blown up by Mark Schwartz...a year later: All four witnesses discredited to varying degrees, lawsuits dropped and a federal investigation ended with no charges.

 

[RMoore1999]

Nobody has to expand. It's probably not over but nobody has to expand.

$10m plus additional to an athletic budget = "has" in my book, but maybe its just semantics...

 

[whaler11]

$10m plus additional to an athletic budget = "has" in my book, but maybe its just semantics...

What conferences get an incremental 10 million for their schools with expansion? I must have missed the ACC increase for Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt. Colorado and Utah got USC and Arizona 10 million more?

 

[UConnDan97]

What conferences get an incremental 10 million for their schools with expansion? I must have missed the ACC increase for Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt. Colorado and Utah got USC and Arizona 10 million more?

First of all, don't pretend like you didn't understand that RMoore was using the 10 mil figure to describe the benefits to the school and not the conference.

Secondly, if you don't believe that a school's addition to a conference adds millions of dollars to the new conference, then it means that you don't understand what's going on around you. Why else do you think that the tv companies add one to two million dollars per every team in a conference when one or two new schools join? Expansion = Bigger money for the conferences. Don't pretend that you don't get it, because I know you're smart enough to understand...

 

[upstater]

Whether Herbst/Warde have a master plan or are just f#%cking clueless, who knows?

Whether HFDan is brilliant or just some bullshstting drunk fortune teller, who knows?

But this, this is UNDENIABLE:

"the sec, b10, b12 and pac all still have to expand. its not close to over"

How so many of you dont see this, have given up hope and resigned Connecticut to cusa/Mac status is startling.

The way this plays out for me is that UConn, USF and Cincy rejoin all former BE teams except VT, Miami, WV, Rutgers and maybe Pitt, with the addition of Wake Forest and possibly Duke. That's maybe not the best case scenario, but the likeliest "good" scenario.

 

[whaler11]

First of all, don't pretend like you didn't understand that RMoore was using the 10 mil figure to describe the benefits to the school and not the conference.

Secondly, if you don't believe that a school's addition to a conference adds millions of dollars to the new conference, then it means that you don't understand what's going on around you. Why else do you think that the tv companies add one to two million dollars per every team in a conference when one or two new schools join? Expansion = Bigger money for the conferences. Don't pretend that you don't get it, because I know you're smart enough to understand...

Dan, I'll spell this out nice and clear for you guys.

The fact that the added schools benefit does not force the existing power conferences to do anything.

Why does any league need to expand if the current members do not increase their individual rake. If the Pac 12 schools get 25 million and adding new schools they still get 25 million - why do they HAVE to expand?

If they gave them incremental money for each team they add why wouldn't a league just add every team available. The ACC could have 30 teams if they so chose and it meant incremental dollars for each of the existing schools for each addition.

 

[mavblues]

Nobody has to expand. It's probably not over but nobody has to expand.

They absolutely do have to expand if they plan to breakaway from the NCAA. As of today, there's too many schools left out.

 

[upstater]

This all sounds good until you realize the Bernie Fine Story was all blown up by Mark Schwartz...a year later: All four witnesses discredited to varying degrees, lawsuits dropped and a federal investigation ended with no charges.

How was Bobby Davis discredited? Law enforcement in Syracuse stated that there was more than enough evidence there that, had there not been a statute of limitations, Fine would have been arrested. One listen to the Laurie Fine tape tells me that Bernie Fine used to visit Davis in his basement regularly when Davis was 13-15 years old, and Laurie Fine thought he was molesting the kid.

 

[UConnDan97]

Dan, I'll spell this out nice and clear for you guys.

The fact that the added schools benefit does not force the existing power conferences to do anything.

Why does any league need to expand if the current members do not increase their individual rake. If the Pac 12 schools get 25 million and adding new schools they still get 25 million - why do they HAVE to expand?

If they gave them incremental money for each team they add why wouldn't a league just add every team available. The ACC could have 30 teams if they so chose and it meant incremental dollars for each of the existing schools for each addition.

You're kidding about all this, right? Please tell me you're kidding, because I know you're smarter than this.

OF COURSE not every addition of a school adds money!!! That's why nobody is racing to add UL-Monroe! The point here is that there is most certainly an "arms race" going on here, and it is involving well known universities, tv markets, etc. Is there anything that inherently makes Missouri an SEC team? Is there anything that inherently makes WVU a Big12 team? How about Louisville becoming a member of an "Atlantic" Coast Conference? (all these questions were rhetorical, so I'll supply the "no" for you). They were deemed to be additions that would add monetary value to the conference, or at the very least, membership stability (which is monetary value also).

And if you think that each major conference isn't actively continuing that process, in order to insure their respective long-term survival (a.k.a., don't "Big East" yourself), then you are kidding yourself and others...

 

[whaler11]

You're kidding about all this, right? Please tell me you're kidding, because I know you're smarter than this.

OF COURSE not every addition of a school adds money!!! That's why nobody is racing to add UL-Monroe! The point here is that there is most certainly an "arms race" going on here, and it is involving well known universities, tv markets, etc. Is there anything that inherently makes Missouri an SEC team? Is there anything that inherently makes WVU a Big12 team? How about Louisville becoming a member of an "Atlantic" Coast Conference? (all these questions were rhetorical, so I'll supply the "no" for you). They were deemed to be additions that would add monetary value to the conference, or at the very least, membership stability (which is monetary value also).

And if you think that each major conference isn't actively continuing that process, in order to insure their respective long-term survival (a.k.a., don't "Big East" yourself), then you are kidding yourself and others...

None of which means that any individual conference HAS to expand now or ever. There is a difference between needing to and choosing to.

 

[mavblues]

None of which means that any individual conference HAS to expand now or ever. There is a difference between needing to and choosing to.

I've already explained this to you, and you've conveniently ignored it.

I get it though - you are by nature a negative person. You just can't bring yourself to accept the fact that this may in fact work out just fine for UConn.

 

[UConnDan97]

None of which means that any individual conference HAS to expand now or ever. There is a difference between needing to and choosing to.

Oh, for !

I don't HAVE to try my best at work. But doing so insures my relative security at my job.
I don't HAVE to try my best at school. But doing so insures my relative chances to secure employment.
Conferences don't HAVE to actively participate in expansion. Because the Big East model was so successful, so there's no real reason to fortify themselves, is there?

Could you just stop trying to be the contrarian for 5 minutes, especially when it's painfully clear that you understand what is being typed in the thread, and what's worse, I'm pretty sure that in large part you agree with it.....please!....

 

[mavblues]

Just as an aside, I keep getting boneyard alerts that say "X" has replied to the thread ESPN...

Hahahahaha. Little things like that cheer me up...

 

[Adios]

This all sounds good until you realize the Bernie Fine Story was all blown up by Mark Schwartz...a year later: All four witnesses discredited to varying degrees, lawsuits dropped and a federal investigation ended with no charges.

Is Bernie Fine a player?

 

[mavblues]

Is Bernie Fine a player?

According to Gerry Sandusky he is.

 

[whaler11]

I've already explained this to you, and you've conveniently ignored it.

I get it though - you are by nature a negative person. You just can't bring yourself to accept the fact that this may in fact work out just fine for UConn.

I certainly understand that it might and maybe your explanation works for you in the same way the HFD believes UConn keeps turning down the ACC

At this point in time there is not a single god damn thing to be positive with respect to UConn and conference realignment. Every single school that was playing in a BCS league in 2004 is in a Big 5 league today except for UConn and Temple.

Every single school that was in a BCS league in 2005 is in a Big 5 league except for USF, UConn and Cincinnati.

The simple fact is that the athletic department is dead until if and when the situation is rectified. If you'd like to dream of scenarios where things work out that is great - I'll believe one when I see it happen because of the shit thrown around the internet on the topic the past few years, .000001% has happened in the end.

I'll be honest. I don't give a shit about research or the AAU or if UConn is ranked 20th or 30th or 40th in US News. I give a shit about basketball and football - so until those programs are safe I'm not going to pretend things are something they are not.

 

[whaler11]

Oh, for !

I don't HAVE to try my best at work. But doing so insures my relative security at my job.
I don't HAVE to try my best at school. But doing so insures my relative chances to secure employment.
Conferences don't HAVE to actively participate in expansion. Because the Big East model was so successful, so there's no real reason to fortify themselves, is there?

Could you just stop trying to be the contrarian for 5 minutes, especially when it's painfully clear that you understand what is being typed in the thread, and what's worse, I'm pretty sure that in large part you agree with it.....please!....

You do know the Big East expanded the most and had the most schools right? They keep expanding and keep losing teams - so it's not as though expansion has proven to be much of a defensive strategy.

 

[UConnDan97]

You do know the Big East expanded the most and had the most schools right? They keep expanding and keep losing teams - so it's not as though expansion has proven to be much of a defensive strategy.

Ridiculous statement! Purely ridiculous. If the Big East hadn't expanded....THERE WOULD BE NO BIG EAST!!! Don't you get that? Don't you get the fact that as f#$ked as our situation is right now from a "big boy" standpoint, that it could be worse? Don't you get that the ball hasn't stopped rolling yet?

Stop. Please stop. Because you're giving me "agita" and I can't take it. If you were a dumb poster, I would just ignore you. But you're smarter than this, and you're just looking for a meaningless fight. Just admit that realignment is happening, is continuing, and is somewhat necessary in this money-grab arms race to stay at the big boy table. Because if you don't admit that, then perhaps I've grossly overestimated your intelligence...

 

[ruskin]

Seriously, to go back to the OP. . . If Im Susan Herbst I am picking up the phone and calling John Skipper (ESPN chief poohbah) in Bristol. Probably ought to be at the Governor level too but now probably not the right time for that call (maybe after Jan. 1). You can't have ESPN cranking this out acting as if it has nothing to do with any of this and is just observing what is going on.

 

[ctchamps]

Not saying they don't exercise any editorial control, I just find it hard to beleive they have Monday morning staff meetings where they distribute realignment bullet points requiring that Connecticut be sabotaged to everyone from D Vitale to McMurphy to some no-name blogger....

Not ragging on you by what reason is there for ESPN to not have a plan. They aren't regulated. There aren't any laws that prohibit inaccurate speech. These forums prove that. And UConn won't even try to go for damages because they don't have the leverage. So ESPN, and any other of the media, can, and will do what serves their bottom line including pressuring their talking heads. I would expect a bone here and there just to keep things honest. Otherwise the blitz is on.

 

[ctchamps]

This all sounds good until you realize the Bernie Fine Story was all blown up by Mark Schwartz...a year later: All four witnesses discredited to varying degrees, lawsuits dropped and a federal investigation ended with no charges.

The legitimate charges could not be made because of statute of limitations. And the reason the statue of limitations expired was because the police in the area didn't do their due diligence when the first victims made the complaint. The victims tried once again trying to capitalize on the PSU/Sandusky nightmare but the new victims turned out to be false. The reporting was an end run around the local media which doesn't happen often. Fortunately for Syracuse BF is not a serial pedophile like Sandusky.

 

[mavblues]

I certainly understand that it might and maybe your explanation works for you in the same way the HFD believes UConn keeps turning down the ACC

At this point in time there is not a single god damn thing to be positive with respect to UConn and conference realignment. Every single school that was playing in a BCS league in 2004 is in a Big 5 league today except for UConn and Temple.

Every single school that was in a BCS league in 2005 is in a Big 5 league except for USF, UConn and Cincinnati.

The simple fact is that the athletic department is dead until if and when the situation is rectified. If you'd like to dream of scenarios where things work out that is great - I'll believe one when I see it happen because of the **** thrown around the internet on the topic the past few years, .000001% has happened in the end.

I'll be honest. I don't give a **** about research or the AAU or if UConn is ranked 20th or 30th or 40th in US News. I give a **** about basketball and football - so until those programs are safe I'm not going to pretend things are something they are not.

Nice diatribe. It has nothing to do with the comment you made that I responded to, but I'm sure venting made you feel better.

You made the comment that "Nobody has to expand. It's probably not over but nobody has to expand."

I responded with "They absolutely do have to expand if they plan to breakaway from the NCAA. As of today, there's too many schools left out."

I stand by my comment. It has been widely reported by mainstream media that the ultimate plan is for the football playing schools to break away from the NCAA, form their own governance body, and institute their own set of rules.

This is not a HFD delusion, not a rah-rah rant from mavblues, and not someone sticking their head in the sand hoping UConn's problems will somehow go away. It is being reported as fact.

Delany has gone one record as stating that B1G will have more conference games in the future.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE FOOTBALL PLAYING SCHOOLS CAN BREAK AWAY FROM THE NCAA WITHOUT ADDING MORE SCHOOLS TO THEIR GROUP.

Why?

Antitrust concerns.

There is a big difference between 80 schools breaking off and 64 schools breaking off.

I've noticed a trend here on the Boneyard. None of the negative posters will come forward and say what they actually believe will happen. You guys are quick to say "UConn will never get into the B1G", and "UConn isn't getting into the ACC anytime soon", and 'there's no indication conferences will expand further", but none of you actually say what will happen to UConn.

So I ask Whaler, Vuce, and the rest of you negative nellies:

Please tell us in detail where you think UConn will be playing 5 years from now, and contrast that to where you think the members of the so-called big 4 conferences will be.

Should take you guys 2 paragraphs or less to answer.

It's really easy to pick apart other people's thoughts, but I haven't seen any detailed, thoughful analysis from the contrarians.

TIA

 

[mavblues]

You do know the Big East expanded the most and had the most schools right? They keep expanding and keep losing teams - so it's not as though expansion has proven to be much of a defensive strategy.

I'm no math major, but how is it called "expanding" if you add schools to replace schools that are leaving? Isn't that "maintaining"?

And if you were to factor in that the schools added were lesser quality athletic departments than the schools that were leaving, wouldn't that in fact be considered "downgrading"?

Any thoughts the Big East had of proactively expanding were repeatedly shot down by the basketball schools.

Finally, wouldn't the Big East's past mistakes seem to be reproduced by the ACC's recent actions? And aren't there (apparently) similar results coming to pass in the ACC? (If you believe rumors that FSU etc are going to leave.)

 

[Husky68]

The legitimate charges could not be made because of statute of limitations. And the reason the statue of limitations expired was because the police in the area didn't do their due diligence when the first victims made the complaint. The victims tried once again trying to capitalize on the PSU/Sandusky nightmare but the new victims turned out to be false. The reporting was an end run around the local media which doesn't happen often. Fortunately for Syracuse BF is not a serial pedophile like Sandusky.

I thought pedophiles are serial. Is it likely that Fine, who seems like an old guy, has only done this with these brothers in his whole life? Not saying I know, just that expected more victims once heard of this.

 

[Waquoit]

Seriously, to go back to the OP. . . If Im Susan Herbst I am picking up the phone and calling John Skipper (ESPN chief poohbah) in Bristol. Probably ought to be at the Governor level too but now probably not the right time for that call (maybe after Jan. 1). You can't have ESPN cranking this out acting as if it has nothing to do with any of this and is just observing what is going on.

No, you don't. It's one guys opinion. If she did what you said, the ESPN Prez would give the guy a raise.

 

[whaler11]

Nice diatribe. It has nothing to do with the comment you made that I responded to, but I'm sure venting made you feel better.

You made the comment that "Nobody has to expand. It's probably not over but nobody has to expand."

I responded with "They absolutely do have to expand if they plan to breakaway from the NCAA. As of today, there's too many schools left out."

I stand by my comment. It has been widely reported by mainstream media that the ultimate plan is for the football playing schools to break away from the NCAA, form their own governance body, and institute their own set of rules.

This is not a HFD delusion, not a rah-rah rant from mavblues, and not someone sticking their head in the sand hoping UConn's problems will somehow go away. It is being reported as fact.

Delany has gone one record as stating that B1G will have more conference games in the future.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE FOOTBALL PLAYING SCHOOLS CAN BREAK AWAY FROM THE NCAA WITHOUT ADDING MORE SCHOOLS TO THEIR GROUP.

Why?

Antitrust concerns.

There is a big difference between 80 schools breaking off and 64 schools breaking off.

I've noticed a trend here on the Boneyard. None of the negative posters will come forward and say what they actually believe will happen. You guys are quick to say "UConn will never get into the B1G", and "UConn isn't getting into the ACC anytime soon", and 'there's no indication conferences will expand further", but none of you actually say what will happen to UConn.

So I ask Whaler, Vuce, and the rest of you negative nellies:

Please tell us in detail where you think UConn will be playing 5 years from now, and contrast that to where you think the members of the so-called big 4 conferences will be.

Should take you guys 2 paragraphs or less to answer.

It's really easy to pick apart other people's thoughts, but I haven't seen any detailed, thoughful analysis from the contrarians.

TIA

I have never said that UConn will never be in the Big 10. I hope that they are. I think in 5 years its 45% ACC 45% some combination of the current free agents and 10% Big 10.

As for the big conferences breaking away: It may happen. It may not. Anti-trust might save some, it may not. Nothing to date has saved UConn - so I won't hold my breath on potential anti-trust concerns.

 

[whaler11]

I'm no math major, but how is it called "expanding" if you add schools to replace schools that are leaving? Isn't that "maintaining"?

And if you were to factor in that the schools added were lesser quality athletic departments than the schools that were leaving, wouldn't that in fact be considered "downgrading"?

Any thoughts the Big East had of proactively expanding were repeatedly shot down by the basketball schools.

Finally, wouldn't the Big East's past mistakes seem to be reproduced by the ACC's recent actions? And aren't there (apparently) similar results coming to pass in the ACC? (If you believe rumors that FSU etc are going to leave.)

The Big East had 8 and with TCU 9 teams in the football league. Then after some departures they grew to 12 and 13, now 14. How is that not expanding?

Many conference expansions have been downgrades by your definition. Colorado, Utah, Rutgers, Maryland, Missouri for examples... So that wouldn't be only something that can be said for the Big East.

The ACC at least managed to add athletic programs that are on par or better than their former members in general. Louisville and Notre Dame certainly. Syracuse probably. Pittsburgh maybe. The ACC has grown from 9 to 14/15 and has a lot of risk and already lost Maryland - so it's not like the simple act of expanding protects you.

 

[caw]

I certainly understand that it might and maybe your explanation works for you in the same way the HFD believes UConn keeps turning down the ACC

At this point in time there is not a single god damn thing to be positive with respect to UConn and conference realignment. Every single school that was playing in a BCS league in 2004 is in a Big 5 league today except for UConn and Temple.

Every single school that was in a BCS league in 2005 is in a Big 5 league except for USF, UConn and Cincinnati.

The simple fact is that the athletic department is dead until if and when the situation is rectified. If you'd like to dream of scenarios where things work out that is great - I'll believe one when I see it happen because of the **** thrown around the internet on the topic the past few years, .000001% has happened in the end.

I'll be honest. I don't give a **** about research or the AAU or if UConn is ranked 20th or 30th or 40th in US News. I give a **** about basketball and football - so until those programs are safe I'm not going to pretend things are something they are not.

I'll explain why AAU and rankings are important.

I don't fully subscribe to HFD's POV, but I do think the B1G is more realistic than the ACC right now.

Right now there is only two ways UConn gets into the ACC:


In my opinion there is nothing that can be done on the ACC front. They aren't expanding and don't seem to plan to do so soon. We also know they have elements that don't care for UConn (BC/Miami/Cuse?). Herbst can't do anything to hasten the ACC's implosion, nor can she magically get them into the ACC. That is dead in the water right now.
The B1G may be a pipe-dream but at least UConn/Herbst knows that they want to expand again and might do it in the next year. They have said as much. UConn may only be 4th at best on their list, but we know they care about three things: eyeballs (land grant universities), research (AAU) and football. Herbst needs to position UConn as best she can as an option (if only a fallback option). That's what she is doing. It's the only play on the table right now for UConn (aside from staying in the BE/whatever).
If UConn gets an indication they are under consideration from the B1G, they would next need to come up with Rent expansion plans even if it's on a freaking cocktail napkin, to make UConn even more viable. Publicly Herbst can't/shouldn't make those plans known right now, but she should make it known behind closed doors to Presidents of the B1G (and ACC). Manuel as well should be on the phone with the ADs from the B1G schools.
Down the road something may open up in the ACC, but for now this is what Herbst can do to help UConn athletics.
I do think signing Ollie would help a bit, but honestly, not a huge deal either way when it comes to conference realignment.

 

[ctchamps]

I thought pedophiles are serial. Is it likely that Fine, who seems like an old guy, has only done this with these brothers in his whole life? Not saying I know, just that expected more victims once heard of this.

A predilection for the young is a pedophile. Not everyone with the predilection acts on it. Sandusky was out of control obviously Bernie Fine appears to have only two victims.

 

[ctchamps]

In my experience, every large corporation I've worked for has had some event occur (aqcuisition, layoffs, etc) where the employees received an email regarding how to respond to questions in the event we were asked about it. These were emails to everyone from the security guards to the help desk guys to the upper management.

On the other hand, ESPN is a corporation where public perception is everything. I'm not trying to argue what it all means, whether this means there are secret CR dealings going on. But I would be suprised to find out that everyone who has a public face for ESPN doesn't know what message they're supposed to be sending.

Exactly. They aren't going to send memos or emails. I wish they would. Sue the Batards for multimillions and buy our way into the B!G. But the message gets delivered you can be sure.