ESPN top 25 women college players, no Kia Nurse?

[MJL243]

How is it that "UConn only wins because they get the best players", but "you can't put four UConn players in the top twenty-five?

 

[Orangutan]

1) There is no way on God's green earth that would i take either Mitchell over Alexis Jones. I'd put her third.

2) Glad to see Greenwell get some recognition, cant wait to see what she can do this year now that she doesnt have to be a primary ball-handler.

3) Not sure if the players read this Espn stuff or not... but if Im Azura Stevens.. and I see that im #24 on the list... while Turner and Wilson are #7 and #8... I'd feel some type of way

It will be interesting to see how Jones does this year. She's been out for almost two years. I don't ever remember thinking she was a top-5 player when she was at Duke. But I remember being in awe of her talent. I think if you do this list at the end of the year, she will be on it, but I don't know if she'd be in the top 10.

Regarding Stevens, I agree she is a little too low. Rightly or wrongly, I think Wilson and Turner are ahead of her because their teams were in the Final Four last year.

 

[Kibitzer]

Kia should be in the top 10-20.
She is the most under-rated player

She's also a badass.

 

[triaddukefan]

You'd feel some type of way? And what way is that, or are we supposed to guess?

Perturbed, perplexed, dumbfounded..... if I were her.

Me personally.. im so upset at the slight ..... imma go head to the gym and work off my anger..... then go get a large pizza

It will be interesting to see how Jones does this year. She's been out for almost two years. I don't ever remember thinking she was a top-5 player when she was at Duke. But I remember being in awe of her talent. I think if you do this list at the end of the year, she will be on it, but I don't know if she'd be in the top 10.

Regarding Stevens, I agree she is a little too low. Rightly or wrongly, I think Wilson and Turner are ahead of her because their teams were in the Final Four last year.

Well Jones wasnt a top 5 player two years ago.... but neither were Tiffany Mitchell, or Jefferson... two years ago I agree... it will be interesting to see how Jones plays this year. Though she is good playing off the ball... she is at her best as the lead guard position.... but Niya Johnson already is well established as the PG.

 

[Kaizen]

She's also a badass.

Yes, now we agree who is the "badass" ..................

 

[HoopsFan21]

Why does the team need a "badass?" Can't we just have a group of nice young ladies that work hard on and off the court without assigning a negative connotation?

 

[CocoHusky]

Why does the team need a "badass?" Can't we just have a group of nice young ladies that work hard on and off the court without assigning a negative connotation?

There is no bad conotation to badass. The best Badasses are also nice young ladies. There is absolutely no down side to the use of the word so stop trying to find one.

 

[huskyd]

I will probably get run off this board for saying this but I am OK with Kia not being a part of this list.
Why? The voters Charlie Creme, Graham Hays, Michelle Smith and Mechelle Voepel all cover NCAA Women's basketball. So this voting selected the 25 best underclassmen returning to college basketball. To make this list Kia would have to have been one of the top 5 Freshmen in the country last year. IMO she was solid but not top 10. Those that were better Wilson, Turner. Stevens, Mitchell, Greenwell-RSF made the list. Now we all know Kia did major damage over the Summer with Team Canada during Pan Am Games-Should that count? Maybe-then summer basketball play should also count positively for Cahtrice White of Illinois, McCall of Stanford , Harper Of KU, Ortiz of Oklahoma all of who have the credentials to take someone off this list. Kia keeps playing the way she is playing and they will have a hard time keeping her out of top 10 next year.

Mistake is viewing these players individually. If the argument is that these women have talent, that's OK. But how they contribute to their teams, how they are integral parts of their teams is the real issue. The game is not played in a vacuum. Geno, for one, wants players willing to subsume themselves in the concept of team. In my book, no one does that better than Kia Nurse. Oh, and she has talent to burn.

 

[huskyd]

There is no bad conotation to badass. The best Badasses are also nice young ladies. There is absolutely no down side to the use of the word so stop trying to find one.

Words have definitions:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/badass

 

[j66kicker]

Not only would it be awesome to have the entire 2012 recruiting class on the Wall, having three WBCA AAs on the team correlates very, very well with an NC. One need only refer to 2002, 2009, 2014, or 2015. We could easily have Stewie, Mo, and Tuck on the 1016 All-American team.

Suspect having the #1 and #2 best players on your team correlates highly with an NC. This has happened before, if you count Sue - #1 overall draft pick - and DT as 1 & 2 (not necessarily in that order).

Also suspect having 4 returning starters from the previous year's dominant NC team - including the POY and the Lieberman winner is somewhat predictive of an NC

 

[huskyd]

Suspect having the #1 and #2 best players on your team correlates highly with an NC. This has happened before, if you count Sue - #1 overall draft pick - and DT as 1 & 2 (not necessarily in that order).

Also suspect having 4 returning starters from the previous year's dominant NC team - including the POY and the Lieberman winner is somewhat predictive of an NC

From your mouth to whoever's listening, J66.

 

[alexrgct]

a According to our own POTUS, all a young woman has to do to be a badass is to play like a girl...

 

[CocoHusky]

This has happened before, if you count Sue - #1 overall draft pick - and DT as 1 & 2 (not necessarily in that order).
Also suspect having 4 returning starters from the previous year's dominant NC team - including the POY and the Lieberman winner is somewhat predictive of an NC

Sue Bird and DT consecutive POY '02-03 is a good example but so is Maya POY '09 Tina beating her out in '10.

 

[PhillyCoach]

I will probably get run off this board for saying this but I am OK with Kia not being a part of this list.
Why? The voters Charlie Creme, Graham Hays, Michelle Smith and Mechelle Voepel all cover NCAA Women's basketball. So this voting selected the 25 best underclassmen returning to college basketball. To make this list Kia would have to have been one of the top 5 Freshmen in the country last year. IMO she was solid but not top 10. Those that were better Wilson, Turner. Stevens, Mitchell, Greenwell-RSF made the list. Now we all know Kia did major damage over the Summer with Team Canada during Pan Am Games-Should that count? Maybe-then summer basketball play should also count positively for Cahtrice White of Illinois, McCall of Stanford , Harper Of KU, Ortiz of Oklahoma all of who have the credentials to take someone off this list. Kia keeps playing the way she is playing and they will have a hard time keeping her out of top 10 next year.

Coco - my Phila. Catholic League friend - Let me just throw some thoughts out on the table regarding Nurse and your position. Huskyd, Kaizen, & others (myself included)believe that Nurse is top 25 for sure. Coco you mentioned Freshman--several top frosh kept Nurse off the list. Help me here for a moment. Was Greenwell a frosh last year? Anyway, all I know is She made the top 25 whether she was a frosh or not. Here is why Nurse should be on the list if Greenwell is. Lets be specific and focus on Greenwell vs Nurse--(even though Allen, Walker-Kimborough, J. Jones, Kelsey Plum and Romero are also not superior to Nurse IMHO.) That group is very talented and all in the Same neighborhood as I see it. Those players all have a good skill set. Just like Nurse.
NURSE versus GREENWELL---
Here is My criteria for selecting a top guard - First quality is being a lock-down defender. That's one for Nurse.
2- FG %- Nurse at 48% to 39% for Greenwell
3- long range shooting 3pt. % = Nurse again leads cause she hits 40% to Greewells 35%
4 - team play/ passing/ assists - Hey look, Nurse has 108 assists to only 70 for Greenwell. That's 4-0 for Nurse. And Nurse played 200 less minutes than Greenwell (976 to 1171 minutes)
So let's just say (giving you the benefit of the doubt) that it's very close or just about even. Nurse=Greenwell.
Well, my 5th criteria or tie-breaker would be Starter on a National Champion vs NO NC. Guess who gets that vote.
6th would be International championships played and won. One more vote for Nurse just for the heck of it.
Diamond Deshields has no last year stats/info. She was picked because we go on the total resume. That's why you would always count NC or Olympic/International experience. It is all part of a player's Resume.
Your thoughts my friend.

 

[triaddukefan]

Coco - my Phila. Catholic League friend - Let me just throw some thoughts out on the table regarding Nurse and your position. Huskyd, Kaizen, & others (myself included)believe that Nurse is top 25 for sure. Coco you mentioned Freshman--several top frosh kept Nurse off the list. Help me here for a moment. Was Greenwell a frosh last year? Anyway, all I know is She made the top 25 whether she was a frosh or not. Here is why Nurse should be on the list if Greenwell is. Lets be specific and focus on Greenwell vs Nurse--(even though Allen, Walker-Kimborough, J. Jones, Kelsey Plum and Romero are also not superior to Nurse IMHO.) That group is very talented and all in the Same neighborhood as I see it. Those players all have a good skill set. Just like Nurse.
NURSE versus GREENWELL---
Here is My criteria for selecting a top guard - First quality is being a lock-down defender. That's one for Nurse.
2- FG %- Nurse at 48% to 39% for Greenwell
3- long range shooting 3pt. % = Nurse again leads cause she hits 40% to Greewells 35%
4 - team play/ passing/ assists - Hey look, Nurse has 108 assists to only 70 for Greenwell. That's 4-0 for Nurse. And Nurse played 200 less minutes than Greenwell (976 to 1171 minutes)
So let's just say (giving you the benefit of the doubt) that it's very close or just about even. Nurse=Greenwell.
Well, my 5th criteria or tie-breaker would be Starter on a National Champion vs NO NC. Guess who gets that vote.
6th would be International championships played and won. One more vote for Nurse just for the heck of it.
Diamond Deshields has no last year stats/info. She was picked because we go on the total resume. That's why you would always count NC or Olympic/International experience. It is all part of a player's Resume.
Your thoughts my friend.

put Greenwell on UCONN's squad... as a part of your great offensive system as opposed to playing at Duke where she was the only consistent perimeter threat.... and you think that she wouldnt have better numbers? Greenwell averaged probably 38 minutes a game....... so alot of the time she was playing tired... but out of necessity due to the lack of guard's on the Duke squad. Come on Coach.... I expected better of you

 

[HGN]

FWIW, I am glad she is not on the list. I hope Kia somehow see that list. And see that so called basketball writers, experts , and announcers still don't give her the respect she is due. And I hope she gets totally pissed and MOTIVATED and plays with a chip on her shoulder all season long.

Now, I am sure she would probably be in their top 50. But the shear competitive nature of this young lady will Motivate her to want to prove to the whole country that she not only should be in the top 25 , but in the top 10. And that will help the Huskie cause.

 

[CBear01]

.. so alot of the time she was playing tired...

Exactly...I can't ever remember watching Kia Nurse play tired. Perhaps another point for Kia

 

[Sluconn Husky]

FWIW, I am glad she is not on the list. I hope Kia somehow see that list. And see that so called basketball writers, experts , and announcers still don't give her the respect she is due. And I hope she gets totally pissed and MOTIVATED and plays with a chip on her shoulder all season long.

Now, I am sure she would probably be in their top 50. But the shear competitive nature of this young lady will Motivate her to want to prove to the whole country that she not only should be in the top 25 , but in the top 10. And that will help the Huskie cause.

Don't think she cares about these types of things. She'd probably laugh and smile if told. She is naturally competitive, worried about her team, not a list made for discussion and entertainment.

 

[jdubct]

I would prefer a list of the top 5 or 10 players. Below that the list can be much more subjective. I imagine Kia was overlooked because there are 3 other players on Uconn more highly regarded nationally going into the season: Stewart, Jefferson, and Tuck. After the season she's likely to have, she undoubtedly will be listed among the top 10 players.

 

[kat0189]

The players I think are too high on this list mostly happen to be PG's: Romero, Lindsay Allen, and Niya Johnson. Then Nina Davis I think is a little too high, but I'm not terribly surprised they put her there. TBH, I even think Tiffany Mitchell seems high at #4, but also not surprised. Oregon State is a great TEAM, as in the sum is greater than their individual parts. Their two players on the list are excellent but I don't know if individually speaking I'd consider them that elite on a national scale.

If Diamond is picked coming off a redshirt year, then Alexis Jones should be. Russell will be top 25 but she didn't do much her frosh year, so it would be based off USA BBall if she were included.

Erica McCall of Stanford could be top 25 based on her summer with USA hoops but I can see why she was left off as she has yet to prove herself at Stanford.

I would take Nurse over the three PG's I mentioned above.

 

[HGN]

Don't think she cares about these types of things. She'd probably laugh and smile if told. She is naturally competitive, worried about her team, not a list made for discussion and entertainment.

Sluconn, you may be right......But if somehow she stumbles upon it , I hope it serves as just more motivation.

 

[connboy77]

Russell from TN will be Top 25 also.

Maybe and that is a big maybe!

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco - my Phila. Catholic League friend - Let me just throw some thoughts out on the table regarding Nurse and your position. Huskyd, Kaizen, & others (myself included)believe that Nurse is top 25 for sure. Coco you mentioned Freshman--several top frosh kept Nurse off the list. Help me here for a moment. Was Greenwell a frosh last year? Anyway, all I know is She made the top 25 whether she was a frosh or not. Here is why Nurse should be on the list if Greenwell is. Lets be specific and focus on Greenwell vs Nurse--(even though Allen, Walker-Kimborough, J. Jones, Kelsey Plum and Romero are also not superior to Nurse IMHO.) That group is very talented and all in the Same neighborhood as I see it. Those players all have a good skill set. Just like Nurse.
NURSE versus GREENWELL---
Here is My criteria for selecting a top guard - First quality is being a lock-down defender. That's one for Nurse.
2- FG %- Nurse at 48% to 39% for Greenwell
3- long range shooting 3pt. % = Nurse again leads cause she hits 40% to Greewells 35%
4 - team play/ passing/ assists - Hey look, Nurse has 108 assists to only 70 for Greenwell. That's 4-0 for Nurse. And Nurse played 200 less minutes than Greenwell (976 to 1171 minutes)
So let's just say (giving you the benefit of the doubt) that it's very close or just about even. Nurse=Greenwell.
Well, my 5th criteria or tie-breaker would be Starter on a National Champion vs NO NC. Guess who gets that vote.
6th would be International championships played and won. One more vote for Nurse just for the heck of it.
Diamond Deshields has no last year stats/info. She was picked because we go on the total resume. That's why you would always count NC or Olympic/International experience. It is all part of a player's Resume.
Your thoughts my friend.

Greenwell was a Redshirt Freshmen last NCAA season. Your numbers ignores volume and obviously the teammates. Greenwell took 202 3Pt shot attempts last year. The next closest Duke player took 62. Simply put if Greenwell didn't take a 3Pt attempt for Duke last year Duke didn't get a good attempt. Teams knew this and if Greenwell didn't make a 3PT shot Duke was in trouble. UCONN had 5 players with close to 100 3Pt attempts and one KML with almst 250 3Pt Attempts. I would point you in the direction that Triad is going which is that a strict numbers comparison will not get at the right answer. Greenwell was required to do (and did) more for Duke last year that Kia did for UCONN.
Full court selected 3 All Freshmen teams and put Greenwell on Second team and Nurse on the Thrid team.
http://www.fullcourt.com/ncaa/25320...ne-full-court-all-american-all-freshman-teams. Full court had 5 Guards listed as having a better Frehsmen season than Kia Nurse, while I might not agree with all of them I agree with enough to keep Kia off this list and to put Greenwell on the list.
Greenwell does not have the weakest resume on this list IMO, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough does. That is also not to say I would replace Shatori Walker-Kimbrough with Nurse either because there are other Freshmen that I would put ahead of Nurse such as Victoria Vivians or Mariya Moore.
With regards to Diamond no numbers from last year that is true but she was the National Freshmen of year when she last played. So her selection was based on Freshmen numbers. Likewise if a player is not going to be to play this coming year they were intentionally left off this list. Specifically this list did not include Lexie Brown , Alisha Gary Jewell Lloyd-off to WNBA all of who had better 2014-15 seasons than Kia Nurse IMO.

 

[PhillyCoach]

put Greenwell on UCONN's squad... as a part of your great offensive system as opposed to playing at Duke where she was the only consistent perimeter threat.... and you think that she wouldnt have better numbers? Greenwell averaged probably 38 minutes a game.. so alot of the time she was playing tired... but out of necessity due to the lack of guard's on the Duke squad. Come on Coach.... I expected better of you

Yo triad - Greenwell is my kind of player - - yes, a UConn type player with every quality Geno looks for. I agree with the big minutes and tiredness. However, you did not take in my key line----I said, "Here is why Nurse should be on the list if Greenwell is." I did not say that Greenwell should not be on the list. I believe Greenwell is a special player --just like Nurse. They are in the same neighborhood. Nevertheless, Nurse has the tie-breakers if you want to place them in order.
By the way, Coach K is one of my all-time favorites (like many other UConn posters would say.)

 

[PhillyCoach]

Greenwell was a Redshirt Freshmen last NCAA season. Your numbers ignores volume and obviously the teammates. Greenwell took 202 3Pt shot attempts last year. The next closest Duke player took 62. Simply put if Greenwell didn't take a 3Pt attempt for Duke last year Duke didn't get a good attempt. Teams knew this and if Greenwell didn't make a 3PT shot Duke was in trouble. UCONN had 5 players with close to 100 3Pt attempts and one KML with almst 250 3Pt Attempts. I would point you in the direction that Triad is going which is that a strict numbers comparison will not get at the right answer. Greenwell was required to do (and did) more for Duke last year that Kia did for UCONN.
Full court selected 3 All Freshmen teams and put Greenwell on Second team and Nurse on the Thrid team.
http://www.fullcourt.com/ncaa/25320...ne-full-court-all-american-all-freshman-teams. Full court had 5 Guards listed as having a better Frehsmen season than Kia Nurse, while I might not agree with all of them I agree with enough to keep Kia off this list and to put Greenwell on the list.
Greenwell does not have the weakest resume on this list IMO, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough does. That is also not to say I would replace Shatori Walker-Kimbrough with Nurse either because there are other Freshmen that I would put ahead of Nurse such as Victoria Vivians or Mariya Moore.
With regards to Diamond no numbers from last year that is true but she was the National Freshmen of year when she last played. So her selection was based on Freshmen numbers. Likewise if a player is not going to be to play this coming year they were intentionally left off this list. Specifically this list did not include Lexie Brown , Alisha Gary Jewell Lloyd-off to WNBA all of who had better 2014-15 seasons than Kia Nurse IMO.