ESPN: This year's three to see and need to Know

[MilfordHusky]

So Sue is resting her body and not playing in Russia. Interesting. Will her next career be broadcasting ... or coaching?

I think Stewie is one to watch because of her unique skills. Kaleena is efficient and a world-class shooter. Jewell Loyd is athletic and exciting. I still think that Moriah is the most exciting player out there.

I'm not sure I like these pre-set lists, even tough 3 UConn players are included. If ESPN presents them appropriately, then maybe.

 

[easttexastrash]

AND

Sue Bird, WNBA star and former All-American at UConn, has joined ESPN for the 2014-15 season and will call games on ESPN2, ESPNU and Longhorn Network this season.

Awesome! I watched her a few times last year and she was tremendous.

 

[j66kicker]

I thought MoJeff is a preseason AA...Did I misread something?

??? We must've

 

[triaddukefan]

Hmmm...Would anyone here trade MoJet for Lloyd even up?

Of course no UCONN fan would make that trade... just like no ND fan would trade Loyd. Now what would be interesting is if you went to say.... the Univ of Wyoming or Coastal Carolina WCBB board and ask the same question.

 

[j66kicker]

So Sue is resting her body and not playing in Russia. Interesting. Will her next career be broadcasting ... or coaching?.

Think Sue maybe did not get an offer to return with UMMC Ekaterinburg - may have helped her make the decision to rest her body.

 

[tennparker3]

I have always thought Sue would be a coach after her playing days are over. In all her interviews, the way she handles herself on the court or bench I've always got a coaching vibe from her. I've always been a fan of her game and personality.

And the Longhorn Network... the reason why the Big 12 is less than 12. Ask Texas A&M how they feel/felt about that. Then, for fun, revisit Kim Mulkey's comments about A&M's departure.

 

[jdubct]

Hmmm...Would anyone here trade MoJet for Lloyd even up?

ND fans wouldn't trade Lloyd for Jefferson either.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I can't be objective because I think the world of MoJet. But this question might be more easily answered after UCONN plays ND. Hopefully MoJet D's up against Loyd.

You cannot compare their head-to-head stats because Geno will most certainly scheme to remove Loyd from the game but I can guarantee that Muffet has "bigger" problems to focus on than the 8th grader. Last season Hartley had far better stats than Sims when UConn played Baylor, but one could argue that UConn's defense was focused on Sims while Baylor's defense had all sorts of threats to neutralize and could not give Hartley that type of attention. But would anyone not in Huskies' blue argue that Hartley is a better basketball player than Sims? When removed from the UConn environment, Hartley could not match Sims in the WNBA or the World Championship tryouts. One of the difficulties teams face when playing UConn is that they have to deal with the outstanding coaching of Geno. The second problem is they have to deal with the exceptional recruiting and development of players by Geno (and staff). UConn teams, stuffed as they are with well-coached top 5 recruits, are incredibly difficult to score against and to defend, which is why superstars usually have their worst games against UConn. But to argue that this proves a UConn player is better than an opponent's star is fraught with peril.

 

[alexrgct]

One thing that stands out is a distinct lack of Stanford players on these lists of players to see or to know. Maybe by next year, one of Tara's kids will have come far enough along that she'll be in these high-visibility/recognition groups. That's a testament to how reliable a coach Tara is.

The problem for Stanford: there's not a lot of time for team/player development between now and Monday...

 

[DobbsRover2]

You cannot compare their head-to-head stats because Geno will most certainly scheme to remove Loyd from the game but I can guarantee that Muffet has "bigger" problems to focus on than the 8th grader. Last season Hartley had far better stats than Sims when UConn played Baylor, but one could argue that UConn's defense was focused on Sims while Baylor's defense had all sorts of threats to neutralize and could not give Hartley that type of attention. But would anyone not in Huskies' blue argue that Hartley is a better basketball player than Sims? When removed from the UConn environment, Hartley could not match Sims in the WNBA or the World Championship tryouts. One of the difficulties teams face when playing UConn is that they have to deal with the outstanding coaching of Geno. The second problem is they have to deal with the exceptional recruiting and development of players by Geno (and staff). UConn teams, stuffed as they are with well-coached top 5 recruits, are incredibly difficult to score against and to defend, which is why superstars usually have their worst games against UConn. But to argue that this proves a UConn player is better than an opponent's star is fraught with peril.

All true, and the issue of comparing UConn players versus other teams' players while they are in college is the problem of how to balance the stats benefits that UConn players get from playing on a nicely polished machine versus the disadvantages they have of sharing time with stars and maybe being the 5th option for scoring when they're on the floor. Puzzles me when the Chong detractors carp that she doesn't score a lot more when they would also be howling that she would be taking shots away from a Stewie or KML or MoJeff or . . . . .

But when it comes to WNBA status, we can all cherry pick our examples to fit our set viewpoint, like matching the 2nd pick in the draft against the 7th pick in the draft and using that as the sum up of UConn non superstars in the WNBA, especially when the Baylor player at #2 is custom made for the WNBA since she has always been able to live at the foul line. I might ask though why not pick two players in the draft who were at fairly similar positions, say #1 Maya Moore and #2 Odyssey Sims? Seems more logical to me. I doubt you need a freshman year stat comparison of Moore vs. Sims.

Or I could argue the opposite with cherry-picked comparisons, but in reverse strategy. Let's take another UConn non-superstar like Hartley with some years in the league. Take Kalana Greene (2010 BET MOP ahead of Charles and Moore), which the Liberty did with the 13th (R2 #1) pick of the draft. Using your method, I would compare her to #8 pick Andrea Riley, an OK State guard with a 21 ppg college average. Greene after recovering from college ACL issues put in 4 1/2 seasons and racked up 667 points before being cut by the Sun, while Riley was gone after 2 1/2 seasons with 324 points. Move up another draft spot to the 2010 #7 spot and you find the Sun's top pick, Kansas star guard Danielle McCray, who like Greene has been somewhat dogged by ACL and other issues. Greene has accounted for almost 300 more points in her career. Move higher up in the draft to #6 Jacinta Monroe or all the way to #3 Kelsey Griffin and you still find players that were either far outperformed by Greene or in Griffin's case, not much ahead in stats.

So yes, the truth of the matter is always in the eye of the beholder of the stats sheets.

 

[mrmojack]

I think Kiah Stokes has a opportunity to put herself in the "Need to know"
conversation. We could get a good indication of this after this California
trip.

 

[Icebear]

So Sue is resting her body and not playing in Russia. Interesting. Will her next career be broadcasting ... or coaching?

Sue has indicated a preference for broadcasting and lack of interest in coaching.

 

[VAMike23]

All true, and the issue of comparing UConn players versus other teams' players while they are in college is the problem of how to balance the stats benefits that UConn players get from playing on a nicely polished machine versus the disadvantages they have of sharing time with stars and maybe being the 5th option for scoring when they're on the floor. Puzzles me when the Chong detractors carp that she doesn't score a lot more when they would also be howling that she would be taking shots away from a Stewie or KML or MoJeff or . . . . .

But when it comes to WNBA status, we can all cherry pick our examples to fit our set viewpoint, like matching the 2nd pick in the draft against the 7th pick in the draft and using that as the sum up of UConn non superstars in the WNBA, especially when the Baylor player at #2 is custom made for the WNBA since she has always been able to live at the foul line. I might ask though why not pick two players in the draft who were at fairly similar positions, say #1 Maya Moore and #2 Odyssey Sims? Seems more logical to me. I doubt you need a freshman year stat comparison of Moore vs. Sims.

Or I could argue the opposite with cherry-picked comparisons, but in reverse strategy. Let's take another UConn non-superstar like Hartley with some years in the league. Take Kalana Greene (2010 BET MOP ahead of Charles and Moore), which the Liberty did with the 13th (R2 #1) pick of the draft. Using your method, I would compare her to #8 pick Andrea Riley, an OK State guard with a 21 ppg college average. Greene after recovering from college ACL issues put in 4 1/2 seasons and racked up 667 points before being cut by the Sun, while Riley was gone after 2 1/2 seasons with 324 points. Move up another draft spot to the 2010 #7 spot and you find the Sun's top pick, Kansas star guard Danielle McCray, who like Greene has been somewhat dogged by ACL and other issues. Greene has accounted for almost 300 more points in her career. Move higher up in the draft to #6 Jacinta Monroe or all the way to #3 Kelsey Griffin and you still find players that were either far outperformed by Greene or in Griffin's case, not much ahead in stats.

So yes, the truth of the matter is always in the eye of the beholder of the stats sheets.

Truth of what matter? The one you conjured up or the point(s) actually raised by 'Choke?

I guessed you missed the part of his post that dealt with "head-to-head" stats, on particular squads (i.e., this year's).

 

[sawxfan23]

I think Kiah Stokes has a opportunity to put herself in the "Need to know"
conversation. We could get a good indication of this after this California
trip.

I really hope that Stokes turns the page this year and becomes the great player we all know she can be. However, I am not convinced that is going to happen. I think she will continue to be a great rebounder and defender but I think that she is just too inconsistent offensively. For example look at the 2 exhibition games this year in which despite putting up great numbers (against inferior competition) she still routinely missed layups and put back chances. She was able to score on many of those by getting her own rebound multiple times but against taller and more skilled players that will not happen. If Stokes can make the routine plays and play stellar defense like she has in the past she will a huge part of this team, if she is able to gain confidence and step up her game offensively she will be an All American.

 

[semper]

??? We must've

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-comme...ge-basketball-2014-15-preseason-all-americans

 

[j66kicker]

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-comme...ge-basketball-2014-15-preseason-all-americans

OK I must've

 

[RockyMTblue2]

As a Sky fan, I'd take Jewell over Epiphanny Prince today.

It will be really interesting to see what an unleashed Jewell will do this year.

Jefferson best PG in college basketball. Loyd best SG.

Lyod is obviously a major talent and I expect her to thrive this year. But I don't think McBride's departure - or Ajawon's for that matter- unleashes her. It is her team for MM and her to mold, but the departed stars did not leash her in the slightest. I may, however, be reading too much into your reference to "unleashed"?

 

[Buzzyboy]

In the NC game, Loyd shot 50% from the arc, had a 2.0 A\TO ratio, pulled down 6 rebounds, shot 75% from the stripe, and had a block and a steal, which is all pretty decent if you're willing to overlook the 27% FG shooting. A nice person would.

I seem to remember that she hit a three or two when the game was, in essence, over. Before that, Loyd was largely putting up shots and missing and not a factor. I've seen more than a few cases of people putting up numbers when it meant virtually nothing to the team. Jim Rice of the Red Sox was that player, to me. He padded his stats when the game was well in hand, one way or another. As a Yankee fan, he was the guy I always wanted up in clutch situations because he was either going to strike out or hit into a DP. He's only in the Hall because people see the stats and not the reality of when he actually got those Homers and RBI's. Getting back to Loyd, she is a very talented lady but as mentioned, I think her numbers looked better because of some late scoring when we were cruising to a big and decisive win.

 

[Orangutan]

Lyod is obviously a major talent and I expect her to thrive this year. But I don't think McBride's departure - or Ajawon's for that matter- unleashes her. It is her team for MM and her to mold, but the departed stars did not leash her in the slightest. I may, however, be reading too much into your reference to "unleashed"?

Most of the offense was run for/through McBride, in my observation. Loyd scored a lot around the margins, put backs, transition, individual plays. They didn't really run that much offense designed for her, which I think they will do this year.

It's not so much that she was "leashed" last year. She just wasn't the focal point. She'll have the ball in her hands a lot more this year and be expected to be more of a playmaker like K-Mac was.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Anyone interested in being up to date on the best women players will definitely need to know who Morgan Tuck is. I understand why she is not mentioned, but by mid-season she will be known.

That's quite true. No one has seen Morgan play a college basketball game totally healthy. She's suffered with her injury through the last few years and still has been quite impressive. If anyone is going to be UNLEASHED this year, it just might be Morgan. She was the number one rated kid in high school her sophomore or junior year, until she got injured and Geno always speaks about her total game and how effortlessly she does so many different facets of the game. She had a monster game her last game before she was redshirted (while injured) so it isn't crazy to think that she might really emerge and have a spectacular year. It'd be great to see, wouldn't it????

 

[Orangutan]

I seem to remember that she hit a three or two when the game was, in essence, over. Before that, Loyd was largely putting up shots and missing and not a factor. I've seen more than a few cases of people putting up numbers when it meant virtually nothing to the team. Jim Rice of the Red Sox was that player, to me. He padded his stats when the game was well in hand, one way or another. As a Yankee fan, he was the guy I always wanted up in clutch situations because he was either going to strike out or hit into a DP. He's only in the Hall because people see the stats and not the reality of when he actually got those Homers and RBI's. Getting back to Loyd, she is a very talented lady but as mentioned, I think her numbers looked better because of some late scoring when we were cruising to a big and decisive win.

She scored 11 of her 13 points in the first half in the national championship game, including both of her made 3-pointers.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Most of the offense was run for/through McBride, in my observation. Loyd scored a lot around the margins, put backs, transition, individual plays. They didn't really run that much offense designed for her, which I think they will do this year.

It's not so much that she was "leashed" last year. She just wasn't the focal point. She'll have the ball in her hands a lot more this year and be expected to be more of a playmaker like K-Mac was.

Actually you mentioned her not being the focal point and that's why she may not have as good a year as you're implying she will. She is really apt to be more of the focal point of defenses since McBride and company have left. Last year they had a few go to players and now, on the surface at least, until someone else really shows themselves, she is the ONE go to player that should be keyed on, game after game, after game!

 

[Buzzyboy]

She scored 11 of her 13 points in the first half in the national championship game, including both of her made 3-pointers.

Sounds like you have factual info so I'll concede that I was mistaken. I guess I can't rely on my "recollections" anymore! Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Orangutan]

Actually you mentioned her not being the focal point and that's why she may not have as good a year as you're implying she will. She is really apt to be more of the focal point of defenses since McBride and company have left. Last year they had a few go to players and now, on the surface at least, until someone else really shows themselves, she is the ONE go to player that should be keyed on, game after game, after game!

I wouldn't be surprised to see her percentages slip a little but I'd guess her overall numbers remain similar because she takes more shots and her assist totals jump. Yes, every D will be keying on her but Mabrey, Johnson, and Cable are all reliable three-point threats, so you can't really afford to leave the others open.

I think ND has enough other threats to keep teams honest, but we'll see. The big thing is whether Reimer and Turner can score consistently in the post. I think they will...but it will be interesting to see what happens the first time they run into a really formidable post team.

 

[Buzzyboy]

You cannot compare their head-to-head stats because Geno will most certainly scheme to remove Loyd from the game but I can guarantee that Muffet has "bigger" problems to focus on than the 8th grader. Last season Hartley had far better stats than Sims when UConn played Baylor, but one could argue that UConn's defense was focused on Sims while Baylor's defense had all sorts of threats to neutralize and could not give Hartley that type of attention. But would anyone not in Huskies' blue argue that Hartley is a better basketball player than Sims? When removed from the UConn environment, Hartley could not match Sims in the WNBA or the World Championship tryouts. One of the difficulties teams face when playing UConn is that they have to deal with the outstanding coaching of Geno. The second problem is they have to deal with the exceptional recruiting and development of players by Geno (and staff). UConn teams, stuffed as they are with well-coached top 5 recruits, are incredibly difficult to score against and to defend, which is why superstars usually have their worst games against UConn. But to argue that this proves a UConn player is better than an opponent's star is fraught with peril.

Conversely, wouldn't you say that in some cases a player of enormous talent, like Breanna, might have lesser stats than would a player like Sims BECAUSE of the team philosophy that UConn presents continually. I mean, if Breanna were in Sims role, where she was the offense, wouldn't her stats be appreciably better. More points for sure and probably more rebounds, assists, blocks, etc.? Sims was the point guard and the two guard, rolled into one and her stats were through the roof because of it. If Baylor had Griner back and if they had more shooters on their team last year, her stats would never have approached what they did. What's amazing is that Maya scored as many points as she did while playing for UConn because with the exception ofher senior year, she never really was THE focal point of UConn's offense. Her senior year, with Tina Charles having left, that changed a bit.

 

[pinotbear]

I seem to remember that she hit a three or two when the game was, in essence, over. Before that, Loyd was largely putting up shots and missing and not a factor. I've seen more than a few cases of people putting up numbers when it meant virtually nothing to the team. Jim Rice of the Red Sox was that player, to me. He padded his stats when the game was well in hand, one way or another. As a Yankee fan, he was the guy I always wanted up in clutch situations because he was either going to strike out or hit into a DP. He's only in the Hall because people see the stats and not the reality of when he actually got those Homers and RBI's. Getting back to Loyd, she is a very talented lady but as mentioned, I think her numbers looked better because of some late scoring when we were cruising to a big and decisive win.

Not gonna get into a long debate about it, but, couldn't disagree with you more regarding Jim Rice - the most feared hitter of his era. Yankee fans remember well Dave Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Sox in 1983. Red Sox fans remember that Righetti walked Rice two of the three times he faced him. You may have wanted Rice up in a clutch situation, but, clearly, Dave, Billy Martin, and the Yankee coaching staff did not.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Truth of what matter? The one you conjured up or the point(s) actually raised by 'Choke?

I guessed you missed the part of his post that dealt with "head-to-head" stats, on particular squads (i.e., this year's).

I noted that it's hard to compare two players on different squads, and in this case with very different roles. Comparing stats for a player who could take 30+ shots in a game even when she was going 13-37 against a team like Kansas against a player like Hartley who definitely could not, well that's tough. And of course if Hartley did have any stats that were better in a head-to-head, you and others might just say it was because she was on a better team.

But let's make that college match-up comparison anyway, since you insist. In that "neutral site" game down in Texas, the line was:

Sims: 4-25 FGs, 16% on FGs, 2-6 3pt, 10-10 FTs, 1 Reb, 4 PF, 20 points, 4 assists, 7 TOs, 1 steal.

Hartley: 7-18 FGs, 39% on FGs, 2-6 3pt, 3 Reb, 3 PF, 17 points, 3 assists, 4 TOs, 2 steals.

Maybe you're saying that the tremendous FT shooting and 3 more points on a ton more shots from the field and line means that Sims won the head-to-head? Personally, I 'd take Hartley's stats, even if you say it's all due to that mystical "Husky support factor." UConn always does have best defense in the nation, but some big game players like Diggins still learned how to deal with it well enough in many games.

But I was mainly responding to the view that a Husky star like Hartley (as opposed to a superstar like Moore) was getting the advantage of being on a Husky team but would be at a big disadvantage against a player like Sims in the WNBA. Maybe you missed it, but the statement was "Hartley could not match Sims in the WNBA."

We'll see more about that as time goes on and their careers play out, but again Hartley was not one of the "Three to See" and plays a different role on teams both in the college and pros. No, she is not going to toss up 27 shots like Sims in her first WNBA game, and perhaps that makes her a far lesser player.

But personally, if I was to compose an argument concerning the effects of playing on a team like UConn versus a team like Baylor that has been one of the top 3 over the last three years, I would play fair and choose two players at basically the same level and with the same role, such as Maya Moore and Odyssey Sims as seniors and in the first WNBA season. Both were the focal points of their team. Hartley was not, though it didn't stop her from going "head-to-head" against other team's stars and often coming out on top.

 

[Orangutan]

Hartley was not, though it didn't stop her from going "head-to-head" against other team's stars and often coming out on top.

Consider that she often came out on top because she wasn't the focal point...of the best defense in the country.

 

[easttexastrash]

I would add Welch from South Carolina and call it "The Four to Adore." IMO she is a top 3 player.

 

[triaddukefan]

I would add Welch from South Carolina and call it "The Four to Adore." IMO she is a top 3 player.

If I didnt know any better, I'd think you were angling for a job as the Mayor of Columbia