ESPN re-ranks the Class of 2017... Megan and Evina fall just a bit...

[CL82]

How is it a swipe at them? They clearly havent been the two best players in their class so far. Westbrook is probably over ranked in his article as is and if anything it is more of a swipe at players 3-5 who are nowhere to be found.

If I want complement your daughter I can do it without reminding your wife that she hasn't aged well.

 

[Argonaut]

Just because I was curious about who was missing...
3) Rellah Boothe -- Texas to Middle Tennessee
4) Chasity Patterson -- Texas to Kentucky
5) Sidney Cooks -- Michigan State to Mississippi State
7) Anastasia Hayes -- Tennessee to Middle Tennessee

And, obviously, we know that Evina (at #2) transferred, too.

I guess if you want to stay on these lists, your best bet is not to transfer.

So 50% of the top 10 in 2017 is no longer at their original school.

2/10 have already transferred from the class of 2018
5/10 transferred from the class of 2016
1/10 transferred from the class of 2015 (looking at you, Jess Shepard)
1/10 transferred form the class of 2014
2013 was a big, hot mess.

Maybe ESPN should do a investigative report on the recruiting process instead of just rehashing old lists.

 

[DeeHusky]

It’s always hilarious to me when my fellow UConn fans get heated when someone may be ranked better than a player in an article or post or if someone make a factual statement towards any UConn player. I mean you won’t lose your fan card if you feel like a player from another team is better. It’s okay to get rid of bias and be a fan of everyone.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Are UConn fans actually upset the author dropped Westbrook a few spots in his rankings based on her 2 years at Tennessee? She hasn't even played for UConn yet. She's barely practiced with them so far. This can't possibly be a swipe at UConn, but some seem to be taking it that way.

I can just about guarantee if she was still at Tennessee some here would be clamoring for her to be dropped even further in the rankings. It's amazing that transferring to UConn has instantaneously made her better, before she's even had the opportunity to benefit from the tutelage of Geno and company. (I'm already ducking, but keep in mind that 2 years at UConn didn't really lead to dramatic improvement for Azura Stevens).

 

[oldude]

Are UConn fans actually upset the author dropped Westbrook a few spots in his rankings based on her 2 years at Tennessee? She hasn't even played for UConn yet. She's barely practiced with them so far. This can't possibly be a swipe at UConn, but some seem to be taking it that way.

I can just about guarantee if she was still at Tennessee some here would be clamoring for her to be dropped even further in the rankings. It's amazing that transferring to UConn has instantaneously made her better, before she's even had the opportunity to benefit from the tutelage of Geno and company. (I'm already ducking, but keep in mind that 2 years at UConn didn't really lead to dramatic improvement for Azura Stevens).

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

 

[bballnut90]

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

It 100% makes sense to compare rankings then and now. HS rankings are a prediction of how the players will do collegiately. Ranking them after 2 years is an update on how he thinks his predictions/assessments have panned out. That's it--nothing more, nothing less. Obviously there is still a lot of time left for players to improve and make bigger impacts. It's simply an update of what theyve proven at this point in their career. Not sure why people are getting upset and butthurt about one writer's opinion.

 

[oldude]

It 100% makes sense to compare rankings then and now. HS rankings are a prediction of how the players will do collegiately. Ranking them after 2 years is an update on how he thinks his predictions/assessments have panned out. That's it--nothing more, nothing less. Obviously there is still a lot of time left for players to improve and make bigger impacts. It's simply an update of what theyve proven at this point in their career. Not sure why people are getting upset and butthurt about one writer's opinion.

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

 

[Reypl21]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

Which is the exact reason you are comparing them!? It's a ranking amongst your peers in HS, and then again on college. Many high rated players out of HS didn't do anything, which is why people fall back on the HS rankings. They were expected to do better than most. Of course, other people improve and turn out to be better than expected. Why wouldn't you compare that? Or why wouldn't you make another list?

 

[DeeHusky]

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

So you’ve never gone back and looked at Hoopgurlz rankings to see where a player was ranked in high school and how it might or might not equate to what they’ve done in college or later?...Compared to what players ranked ahead or after them have done? As a fan I do it all the time. Even for classes back in like 2009, 2007, or 2011. It’s always a great thing to see players like Natasha Cloud who ranked 96th in her class and was the starting PG on a WNBA championship team...or Aeriel Powers who was 98th in her class also from that same team play a pivotal role in that championship. As a wbb fan, for me, re-rankings are fun to look at even though I might not agree.

 

[nwhoopfan]

It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight.

That's an interesting comparison. I'm gonna try that. Can't wait to brag about how much weight I've lost on the moon.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS.

I don't think that's what HS rankings are. They are supposed to be about projecting how they will do in college. That of course is an inexact science w/ too many variables, thus often not very accurate.

 

[oldude]

Which is the exact reason you are comparing them!? It's a ranking amongst your peers in HS, and then again on college. Many high rated players out of HS didn't do anything, which is why people fall back on the HS rankings. They were expected to do better than most. Of course, other people improve and turn out to be better than expected. Why wouldn't you compare that? Or why wouldn't you make another list?

I’m fine with ranking HS players. I’m also fine with ranking college players. I just have a problem equating the two. There are just too many variables that come into play. Somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned Rellah Boothe, the 3rd rated player in the 2017 class. Subsequently she left Baylor for academic reasons, ended up at a JC and is now a redshirt sophomore at Middle TN St. Where does she rank in her HS class?

What if the NCAA denies Evina’s appeal? Is she still the 6th player in her HS class even if she’s ineligible to play? Again, my problem is that Olson is trying to link two things that should not be linked.

 

[CL82]

It’s okay to get rid of bias and be a fan of everyone.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

That's wrong--HS rankings are predictions of how they'll do collegiately, hence why those rankings would go hand in hand with these ones. They're not an evaluation of how good a player is at that given moment. Read Dan Olson's article from last year where he states, "Who's the best prospect in the country, regardless of class? Christyn Williams, a senior who has signed with Connecticut, is the best player in the country. Charli Collier, a senior who has signed with Texas, is a really, really, really close second.

But the key word is "prospect." Who has the most potential? Who do I predict will have the best college career? I looked into my crystal ball and saw these as the top 10."

Top prospect in high school basketball? A freshman emerges in our crystal ball

UConn signee Christyn Williams is No. 1 in the senior class. Texas-bound Charli Collier and Baylor-bound Aquira DeCosta are among the elite, too. But rising to the top is a prospect who hasn't yet played 20 high school games.

www.espn.com

Note how the prospect rankings lined up exactly with the HG rankings at the time for the 2018 kids.

Rankings never line up perfectly but they're a best guess. Some players develop into stars, others don't. Lots of factors go into this and it is difficult to predict. But it's a best guess effort and a great resource for us fans to learn about recruits and how professionals are assessing them.

 

[DeeHusky]

View attachment 47816

Lmao. Not necessarily be fan of everyone, but don’t let your bias cloud your judgement, analysis, critique or whatever when comparing your teams vs others. There are going to be times when you have the best player and times when you don’t. Some people just can’t see pass their bias to the point of insanity.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m fine with ranking HS players. I’m also fine with ranking college players. I just have a problem equating the two. There are just too many variables that come into play. Somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned Rellah Boothe, the 3rd rated player in the 2017 class. Subsequently she left Baylor for academic reasons, ended up at a JC and is now a redshirt sophomore at Middle TN St. Where does she rank in her HS class?

What if the NCAA denies Evina’s appeal? Is she still the 6th player in her HS class even if she’s ineligible to play? Again, my problem is that Olson is trying to link two things that should not be linked.

Boothe left Texas, not Baylor. He ranked her 3rd on the HG 100 based on how he thought her collegiate career would pan out. He couldn't have predicted that she'd transfer and have an ACL injury. Since this ranking is based off of how a player has done up to this point, she wouldn't be in the top 100. She was seldom used freshman and hasn't played since then.

If Evina has her appeal denied, she'll likely move back in his rankings (which are assessing how players have performed collegiately) if he re-evaluates at the end of this season since many of her classmates will ultimately have an extra to year to make an impact that Evina doesn't. All he'd have to assess Evina on are her 2 years of play at Tennessee which were up and down.

 

[oldude]

That's wrong--HS rankings are predictions of how they'll do collegiately, hence why those rankings would go hand in hand with these ones. They're not an evaluation of how good a player is at that given moment. Read Dan Olson's article from last year where he states, "Who's the best prospect in the country, regardless of class? Christyn Williams, a senior who has signed with Connecticut, is the best player in the country. Charli Collier, a senior who has signed with Texas, is a really, really, really close second.

But the key word is "prospect." Who has the most potential? Who do I predict will have the best college career? I looked into my crystal ball and saw these as the top 10."

Top prospect in high school basketball? A freshman emerges in our crystal ball

UConn signee Christyn Williams is No. 1 in the senior class. Texas-bound Charli Collier and Baylor-bound Aquira DeCosta are among the elite, too. But rising to the top is a prospect who hasn't yet played 20 high school games.

www.espn.com

Note how the prospect rankings lined up exactly with the HG rankings at the time for the 2018 kids.

Rankings never line up perfectly but they're a best guess. Some players develop into stars, others don't. Lots of factors go into this and it is difficult to predict. But it's a best guess effort and a great resource for us fans to learn about recruits and how professionals are assessing them.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t agree. HS ratings are fun and interesting, but I guarantee you that college coaches don’t base their evaluations of players or recruiting decisions on rankings.

 

[bballnut90]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t agree. HS ratings are fun and interesting, but I guarantee you that college coaches don’t base their evaluations of players or recruiting decisions on rankings.

It's not an opinion--HS rankings are made as an indication of how a player will perform at the collegiate level, not how good a player is at the HS level.

And coaches 100% use recruiting services to identify prospects. It is one of the big reasons why coaches are able to recruit all over the country and cast such a wide net. Take a look at Dan Olson's company and bio. He is the one who creates the HG rankings and wrote the follow up article.

Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

 

[oldude]

So you’ve never gone back and looked at Hoopgurlz rankings to see where a player was ranked in high school and how it might or might not equate to what they’ve done in college or later?...Compared to what players ranked ahead or after them have done? As a fan I do it all the time. Even for classes back in like 2009, 2007, or 2011. It’s always a great thing to see players like Natasha Cloud who ranked 96th in her class and was the starting PG on a WNBA championship team...or Aeriel Powers who was 98th in her class also from that same team play a pivotal role in that championship. As a wbb fan, for me, re-rankings are fun to look at even though I might not agree.

Sure I look back at HS rankings and, as you indicated, it’s fun. What I don’t do is attempt to draw some kind of formal equivalencies between HS and college. There are just too many variables in play.

 

[Bigboote]

IMHO, Chennedy Carter is the most overrated player in WCBB! She plays ZERO defense and she is a gunner!

Last season her shooting percentage and three-point percentage were both lower than that of the team as a whole, and she had more turnovers than assists. She's fun to watch, but I agree with you 100%.

 

[Kaizen]

Take a look at Dan Olson's company and bio. He is the one who creates the HG rankings and wrote the follow up article.

Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

You do realize that you have to pay between $500 -$1500 to read those reports? Those articles are not free.

 

[Bigboote]

After watching the two exhibition games, I'm thinking Walker will move up. I thought she'd make a leap this year, and I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise, although the way Makurat is rebounding, Megan won't be getting the 8-9 rebounds a game I thought she would. She may very well approach 20 points per game, though.

 

[bballnut90]

You do realize that you have to pay between $500 -$1500 to read those reports? Those articles are not free.

He is the one who does the HG rankings and the more detailed reports. If you look at HG rankings it says, "Prepared by Dan Olson, Collegiate Girls Basketball Report"

 

[jonson]

Sure I look back at HS rankings and, as you indicated, it’s fun. What I don’t do is attempt to draw some kind of formal equivalencies between HS and college. There are just too many variables in play.

I don't really see these as formal equivalences, just an attempt to see whether high school rankings (his) ended up predicting with some degree of accuracy how (again, in his view) the same players have performed so far at the collegiate level. If nothing else, it indicates how challenging it can be to measure potential in the case of some (many?) players, as well as how many factors (coach, team, attitude, work ethic, etc., and all of them difficult to measure) influence whether or not that potential is realized or exceeded.

Since she's from my team, Satou Sabally's ratings (36 to 2) are the ones that stand out most to me. Did Olson simply miss the boat in the earlier rating (or the later one), since she's from Germany, and Graves see what he didn't? Is it a tribute to how well Oregon develops players? A sign of Sabally's work ethic and willingness to acknowledge areas she needs to improve? A benefit of the attention given to Ionescu or Hebard (who had a rating even lower than Sabally's), or Ionescu's passes? Some combination? And so on. There's lots to talk/think about, with none of it really provable. In short, something irresistible for a lot of fans.

 

[bballnut90]

I don't really see these as formal equivalences, just an attempt to see whether high school rankings (his) ended up predicting with some degree of accuracy how (again, in his view) the same players have performed so far at the collegiate level. If nothing else, it indicates how challenging it can be to measure potential in the case of some (many?) players, as well as how many factors (coach, team, attitude, work ethic, etc., and all of them difficult to measure) influence whether or not that potential is realized or exceeded.

Since she's from my team, Satou Sabally's ratings (36 to 2) are the ones that stand out most to me. Did Olson simply miss the boat in the earlier rating (or the later one), since she's from Germany, and Graves see what he didn't? Is it a tribute to how well Oregon develops players? A sign of Sabally's work ethic and willingness to acknowledge areas she needs to improve? A benefit of the attention given to Ionescu or Hebard (who had a rating even lower than Sabally's), or Ionescu's passes? Some combination? And so on. There's lots to talk/think about, with none of it really provable. In short, something irresistible for a lot of fans.

I think she was vastly underrated more than anything else, or maybe she made big improvements over her senior year after rankings were finished. She's definitely improved big time while at Oregon, but from day 1 she was a double digit scorer. Obviously it helps to play with Sabrina and the competition in front of her wasn't exactly stiff (Mallory McGwire) so she came into a good opportunity, but she has taken full advantage of it. I'd personally rank her over Carter but understand the argument for Chennedy.

 

[LoTrader]

Nonsense!

We shall see how nonsensical when the draft comes around for this class. MO will be drafted ahead of MW

 

[willtalk]

I think she was vastly underrated more than anything else, or maybe she made big improvements over her senior year after rankings were finished. She's definitely improved big time while at Oregon, but from day 1 she was a double digit scorer. Obviously it helps to play with Sabrina and the competition in front of her wasn't exactly stiff (Mallory McGwire) so she came into a good opportunity, but she has taken full advantage of it. I'd personally rank her over Carter but understand the argument for Chennedy.

Overseas players never get rated correctly. I do think that Sabbally being from Germany may have played a role. Generally, Germany just hadn't produced any high-level women's players until Gulish. Sab was picked for the Jordan classic, and although she scored few points I remember telling people , because of all the other things she did so well, that she looked like the most versatile and talented player on the floor.

 

[soxfan23]

We shall see how nonsensical when the draft comes around for this class. MO will be drafted ahead of MW

Sure she will.

 

[oldude]

We shall see how nonsensical when the draft comes around for this class. MO will be drafted ahead of MW

With all due respect, it’s too early to tell. MO is an exceptional athlete, but if UConn’s 2 exhibition games are any indication, Megan is ready to step into the shoes of the great UConn players that came before her. She put up two easy 28 pt games and filled up the stat sheets playing limited minutes, albeit against lesser competition. Megan has transformed her body to become stronger and leaner so that she can run all day and bang in the paint with Bigs.

More importantly she reminds me of the young kid I watched play several times at Monacan HS in VA leading her team to three straight AAA state championships. Megan is playing with a sense of confidence and control that tells you she’ll do whatever it takes whenever it’s needed. Geno often refers to it as, “I got this coach.” It’s something you see in the great ones. Stewie had it. Gabby had it. Ionescu has it. Megan Walker has it too.

 

[JonathanXIV]

We shall see how nonsensical when the draft comes around for this class. MO will be drafted ahead of MW

Now you are adding yet another element into the equation. Where a player is only partially related to how good a college career a player has had. The needs of the teams drafting, for example, play a significant role. I don’t think anyone believes that Pheesha was the 6th best senior last year.