ESPN re-ranks the Class of 2017... Megan and Evina fall just a bit...

[willtalk]

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Are some of you salty that Walker and Westbrook moved back? Or is it really because this content really makes you that mad? That's what I'm trying to figure out. It baffles me that people will complain about WBB getting more exposure, considering it needs help to grow.

Some people seem to put too much emphasis on rankings. We can see this even in the preseason rankings when people become upset that the team they follow is not ranked high enough. Rankings are just educated guesses. They have no actual impact on how well a player or team actually does, although many fans seem to think that it does. The only sport where a team is limited considerable by their ranking is in college football. It decides if teams are one of the four teams that get a chance to play for the championship.

Where players and teams are ranked at the end of the season does matter, because it influences the draft. The WNBA goes a lot on hype. They have no scouting depts. Teams because it influences their seeding. Although for the top eight it isn't really that much of a factor.

 

[cbraarj]

Who cares about Dan Olsen? He dropped 50% in his profession IMO. All that counts is who wins the next 2 NCs!

 

[Carnac]

In Megan's blurb, they aggregated all her statistics instead of seperating the Freshman and Sophmore years. Other candidates were written up illustrating growth from freshman to sophomore years

Walker, the national player of the year out of Virginia in 2017, was sensational as a high schooler. However, she hasn't put up the statistics that some other players have, largely because she was the fourth option on a Huskies team that featured All-Americans Katie Lou Samuelson and WNBA Rookie of the Year Napheesa Collier. Still, Walker has averaged 9.1 points per game in 68 games for perennial national championship contender UConn.

That’s right. When UConn brings the ball to the front court, you’d better believe there’s a “pecking order” with respect to who gets to put up a shot. This year, Megan moves to the top. It’s her turn, she’s paid her dues. In years past, she had Gabby, Kia, Lou and Napheesa in front of her.

 

[CL82]

I’m sorry. Dan Olson shouldn’t be entitled to a do over. His initial ratings, good or bad, should stand on their own.

Weird article. I guess he's saying "my predictions were wrong" but it seems a subtle (and perhaps not all that subtle) swipe at Megan and Evina.

Well, as with all such things, my response is simply:

 

[bballnut90]

Weird article. I guess he's saying "my predictions were wrong" but it seems a subtle (and perhaps not all that subtle) swipe at Megan and Evina.

Well, as with all such things, my response is simply:

View attachment 47807

How is it a swipe at them? They clearly havent been the two best players in their class so far. Westbrook is probably over ranked in his article as is and if anything it is more of a swipe at players 3-5 who are nowhere to be found.

 

[CL82]

How is it a swipe at them? They clearly havent been the two best players in their class so far. Westbrook is probably over ranked in his article as is and if anything it is more of a swipe at players 3-5 who are nowhere to be found.

If I want complement your daughter I can do it without reminding your wife that she hasn't aged well.

 

[Argonaut]

Just because I was curious about who was missing...
3) Rellah Boothe -- Texas to Middle Tennessee
4) Chasity Patterson -- Texas to Kentucky
5) Sidney Cooks -- Michigan State to Mississippi State
7) Anastasia Hayes -- Tennessee to Middle Tennessee

And, obviously, we know that Evina (at #2) transferred, too.

I guess if you want to stay on these lists, your best bet is not to transfer.

So 50% of the top 10 in 2017 is no longer at their original school.

2/10 have already transferred from the class of 2018
5/10 transferred from the class of 2016
1/10 transferred from the class of 2015 (looking at you, Jess Shepard)
1/10 transferred form the class of 2014
2013 was a big, hot mess.

Maybe ESPN should do a investigative report on the recruiting process instead of just rehashing old lists.

 

[DeeHusky]

It’s always hilarious to me when my fellow UConn fans get heated when someone may be ranked better than a player in an article or post or if someone make a factual statement towards any UConn player. I mean you won’t lose your fan card if you feel like a player from another team is better. It’s okay to get rid of bias and be a fan of everyone.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Are UConn fans actually upset the author dropped Westbrook a few spots in his rankings based on her 2 years at Tennessee? She hasn't even played for UConn yet. She's barely practiced with them so far. This can't possibly be a swipe at UConn, but some seem to be taking it that way.

I can just about guarantee if she was still at Tennessee some here would be clamoring for her to be dropped even further in the rankings. It's amazing that transferring to UConn has instantaneously made her better, before she's even had the opportunity to benefit from the tutelage of Geno and company. (I'm already ducking, but keep in mind that 2 years at UConn didn't really lead to dramatic improvement for Azura Stevens).

 

[oldude]

Are UConn fans actually upset the author dropped Westbrook a few spots in his rankings based on her 2 years at Tennessee? She hasn't even played for UConn yet. She's barely practiced with them so far. This can't possibly be a swipe at UConn, but some seem to be taking it that way.

I can just about guarantee if she was still at Tennessee some here would be clamoring for her to be dropped even further in the rankings. It's amazing that transferring to UConn has instantaneously made her better, before she's even had the opportunity to benefit from the tutelage of Geno and company. (I'm already ducking, but keep in mind that 2 years at UConn didn't really lead to dramatic improvement for Azura Stevens).

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

 

[bballnut90]

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

It 100% makes sense to compare rankings then and now. HS rankings are a prediction of how the players will do collegiately. Ranking them after 2 years is an update on how he thinks his predictions/assessments have panned out. That's it--nothing more, nothing less. Obviously there is still a lot of time left for players to improve and make bigger impacts. It's simply an update of what theyve proven at this point in their career. Not sure why people are getting upset and butthurt about one writer's opinion.

 

[oldude]

It 100% makes sense to compare rankings then and now. HS rankings are a prediction of how the players will do collegiately. Ranking them after 2 years is an update on how he thinks his predictions/assessments have panned out. That's it--nothing more, nothing less. Obviously there is still a lot of time left for players to improve and make bigger impacts. It's simply an update of what theyve proven at this point in their career. Not sure why people are getting upset and butthurt about one writer's opinion.

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

 

[Reypl21]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

Which is the exact reason you are comparing them!? It's a ranking amongst your peers in HS, and then again on college. Many high rated players out of HS didn't do anything, which is why people fall back on the HS rankings. They were expected to do better than most. Of course, other people improve and turn out to be better than expected. Why wouldn't you compare that? Or why wouldn't you make another list?

 

[DeeHusky]

I cannot speak for other UConn fans, but the point I have been trying to make (badly evidently) is that it makes no sense to compare players HS rankings vs where they are in college. It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight. As an example, is it relevant that Lauren Cox was the top rated HS player in the class of 2016, but as a senior in college, most pundits would rate Ionescu as the top senior in the nation (4th in the class of 2016)?

So you’ve never gone back and looked at Hoopgurlz rankings to see where a player was ranked in high school and how it might or might not equate to what they’ve done in college or later?...Compared to what players ranked ahead or after them have done? As a fan I do it all the time. Even for classes back in like 2009, 2007, or 2011. It’s always a great thing to see players like Natasha Cloud who ranked 96th in her class and was the starting PG on a WNBA championship team...or Aeriel Powers who was 98th in her class also from that same team play a pivotal role in that championship. As a wbb fan, for me, re-rankings are fun to look at even though I might not agree.

 

[nwhoopfan]

It’s two completely different environments, like weighing yourself on the earth and subsequently weighing yourself on the moon, and then suggesting you lost a lot of weight.

That's an interesting comparison. I'm gonna try that. Can't wait to brag about how much weight I've lost on the moon.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS.

I don't think that's what HS rankings are. They are supposed to be about projecting how they will do in college. That of course is an inexact science w/ too many variables, thus often not very accurate.

 

[oldude]

Which is the exact reason you are comparing them!? It's a ranking amongst your peers in HS, and then again on college. Many high rated players out of HS didn't do anything, which is why people fall back on the HS rankings. They were expected to do better than most. Of course, other people improve and turn out to be better than expected. Why wouldn't you compare that? Or why wouldn't you make another list?

I’m fine with ranking HS players. I’m also fine with ranking college players. I just have a problem equating the two. There are just too many variables that come into play. Somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned Rellah Boothe, the 3rd rated player in the 2017 class. Subsequently she left Baylor for academic reasons, ended up at a JC and is now a redshirt sophomore at Middle TN St. Where does she rank in her HS class?

What if the NCAA denies Evina’s appeal? Is she still the 6th player in her HS class even if she’s ineligible to play? Again, my problem is that Olson is trying to link two things that should not be linked.

 

[CL82]

It’s okay to get rid of bias and be a fan of everyone.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m afraid we’re going to have to disagree. HS rankings are nothing more than a rating services evaluation of how a player did in HS. If there is anything that is consistent about HS rankings it is that they are not necessarily predictive of how a player will do once they get to the next level. All you have to do is go back a few years and take a look at past HS rankings and you will come across numerous players who never did much of anything once they got to college.

That's wrong--HS rankings are predictions of how they'll do collegiately, hence why those rankings would go hand in hand with these ones. They're not an evaluation of how good a player is at that given moment. Read Dan Olson's article from last year where he states, "Who's the best prospect in the country, regardless of class? Christyn Williams, a senior who has signed with Connecticut, is the best player in the country. Charli Collier, a senior who has signed with Texas, is a really, really, really close second.

But the key word is "prospect." Who has the most potential? Who do I predict will have the best college career? I looked into my crystal ball and saw these as the top 10."

Freshman tops list of high school prospects

UConn signee Christyn Williams is No. 1 in the senior class. Texas-bound Charli Collier and Baylor-bound Aquira DeCosta are among the elite, too. But rising to the top is a prospect who hasn't yet played 20 high school games.

www.espn.com

Note how the prospect rankings lined up exactly with the HG rankings at the time for the 2018 kids.

Rankings never line up perfectly but they're a best guess. Some players develop into stars, others don't. Lots of factors go into this and it is difficult to predict. But it's a best guess effort and a great resource for us fans to learn about recruits and how professionals are assessing them.

 

[DeeHusky]

View attachment 47816

Lmao. Not necessarily be fan of everyone, but don’t let your bias cloud your judgement, analysis, critique or whatever when comparing your teams vs others. There are going to be times when you have the best player and times when you don’t. Some people just can’t see pass their bias to the point of insanity.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m fine with ranking HS players. I’m also fine with ranking college players. I just have a problem equating the two. There are just too many variables that come into play. Somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned Rellah Boothe, the 3rd rated player in the 2017 class. Subsequently she left Baylor for academic reasons, ended up at a JC and is now a redshirt sophomore at Middle TN St. Where does she rank in her HS class?

What if the NCAA denies Evina’s appeal? Is she still the 6th player in her HS class even if she’s ineligible to play? Again, my problem is that Olson is trying to link two things that should not be linked.

Boothe left Texas, not Baylor. He ranked her 3rd on the HG 100 based on how he thought her collegiate career would pan out. He couldn't have predicted that she'd transfer and have an ACL injury. Since this ranking is based off of how a player has done up to this point, she wouldn't be in the top 100. She was seldom used freshman and hasn't played since then.

If Evina has her appeal denied, she'll likely move back in his rankings (which are assessing how players have performed collegiately) if he re-evaluates at the end of this season since many of her classmates will ultimately have an extra to year to make an impact that Evina doesn't. All he'd have to assess Evina on are her 2 years of play at Tennessee which were up and down.

 

[oldude]

That's wrong--HS rankings are predictions of how they'll do collegiately, hence why those rankings would go hand in hand with these ones. They're not an evaluation of how good a player is at that given moment. Read Dan Olson's article from last year where he states, "Who's the best prospect in the country, regardless of class? Christyn Williams, a senior who has signed with Connecticut, is the best player in the country. Charli Collier, a senior who has signed with Texas, is a really, really, really close second.

But the key word is "prospect." Who has the most potential? Who do I predict will have the best college career? I looked into my crystal ball and saw these as the top 10."

Freshman tops list of high school prospects

UConn signee Christyn Williams is No. 1 in the senior class. Texas-bound Charli Collier and Baylor-bound Aquira DeCosta are among the elite, too. But rising to the top is a prospect who hasn't yet played 20 high school games.

www.espn.com

Note how the prospect rankings lined up exactly with the HG rankings at the time for the 2018 kids.

Rankings never line up perfectly but they're a best guess. Some players develop into stars, others don't. Lots of factors go into this and it is difficult to predict. But it's a best guess effort and a great resource for us fans to learn about recruits and how professionals are assessing them.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t agree. HS ratings are fun and interesting, but I guarantee you that college coaches don’t base their evaluations of players or recruiting decisions on rankings.

 

[bballnut90]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t agree. HS ratings are fun and interesting, but I guarantee you that college coaches don’t base their evaluations of players or recruiting decisions on rankings.

It's not an opinion--HS rankings are made as an indication of how a player will perform at the collegiate level, not how good a player is at the HS level.

And coaches 100% use recruiting services to identify prospects. It is one of the big reasons why coaches are able to recruit all over the country and cast such a wide net. Take a look at Dan Olson's company and bio. He is the one who creates the HG rankings and wrote the follow up article.

Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

 

[oldude]

So you’ve never gone back and looked at Hoopgurlz rankings to see where a player was ranked in high school and how it might or might not equate to what they’ve done in college or later?...Compared to what players ranked ahead or after them have done? As a fan I do it all the time. Even for classes back in like 2009, 2007, or 2011. It’s always a great thing to see players like Natasha Cloud who ranked 96th in her class and was the starting PG on a WNBA championship team...or Aeriel Powers who was 98th in her class also from that same team play a pivotal role in that championship. As a wbb fan, for me, re-rankings are fun to look at even though I might not agree.

Sure I look back at HS rankings and, as you indicated, it’s fun. What I don’t do is attempt to draw some kind of formal equivalencies between HS and college. There are just too many variables in play.

 

[Bigboote]

IMHO, Chennedy Carter is the most overrated player in WCBB! She plays ZERO defense and she is a gunner!

Last season her shooting percentage and three-point percentage were both lower than that of the team as a whole, and she had more turnovers than assists. She's fun to watch, but I agree with you 100%.