ESPN names their preseason All-Americans | The Boneyard

ESPN names their preseason All-Americans

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JoePgh said:
KML is getting (slightly) disrespected here. Who wouldn't rather have her than Alyssa Thomas? Much more scoring, more consistency, more of an all-around game.
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Umm lets be honest here. KML is an outstanding player, best shooter in the country, and everyone here loves her, but.... Alyssa has a better all around game then KML. She lead her conference in scoring, rebounding, and assist last year with 18.8ppl 10.3rpg, and 5.3apg. KML numbers last year for comparison 17.6ppl, 6.3rpg, and 2.3apg.
 
Would any1 have any objection if KML made 1st team and Stewie was 2nd team? Who is the best player on this years team?
 
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I actually can't argue with those selections at all. I think Alyssa deserves preseason to be on the 1st team and based on the entirety of last year, you really should switch Stewie and KML. By the end of the season, of course these names might change, but the fact remains that UCONN is so deep and so talented at every position that individual numbers might be "less than" for some of the UCONN stars.

UCONN fans can argue that as a team, UCONN held Alyssa to season lows when they play, just like they did with Chiney, but there were a number of games last year where KML was held to a low scoring output. Was it a bad game? Great defense by the other team? Either way it's hard to argue that KML has a better all around game than Alyssa and therefore deserves to be 1st team.

Geno has said KML is often the best player on the court, and I think he may have said this year that she's the best player on the team. But these ESPN lists are only preseason and KML has the entire year to show if/why she deserves to be 1st team. Honestly, tho, there's no shame in being named to the 2nd team as a junior...
 
What stuck out to me the most is the Conference Champs.

The Big10 and the Big East are up in the air. Should be interesting.

and I do think Duke and Tennessee could get challenged in their respective conferences.
 
Coach Auriemma thinks Mosqueda-Lewis is the best player in the country, and I'd say he has a pretty good eye for talent. After all she was the #1 recruit in her class. I think UConn wasn't getting more than 1 first teamer on the list no matter what just to make it seem fair, but let's be real, no coach is going to pick Thomas over Mosqueda-Lewis if given the choice.
 
xHunt3r said:
Umm lets be honest here. KML is an outstanding player, best shooter in the country, and everyone here loves her, but.... Alyssa has a better all around game then KML. She lead her conference in scoring, rebounding, and assist last year with 18.8ppl 10.3rpg, and 5.3apg. KML numbers last year for comparison 17.6ppl, 6.3rpg, and 2.3apg.
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No, she is not. We had this discussion last week and AT's numbers are no better than KML's when minutes are accounted for. KML is a far better player than Alyssa right now with more more help which probably lowers her numbers. Talk to us after ND tears up the ACC this year. And if AT manages to score more than 15 points other than after the game is over. Be nice or we'll sic DD on you.
 
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xHunt3r said:
Umm lets be honest here. KML is an outstanding player, best shooter in the country, and everyone here loves her, but.... Alyssa has a better all around game then KML. She lead her conference in scoring, rebounding, and assist last year with 18.8ppl 10.3rpg, and 5.3apg. KML numbers last year for comparison 17.6ppl, 6.3rpg, and 2.3apg.
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Based upon how many minutes per game? Just curious.
 
xHunt3r said:
Umm lets be honest here. KML is an outstanding player, best shooter in the country, and everyone here loves her, but.... Alyssa has a better all around game then KML. She lead her conference in scoring, rebounding, and assist last year with 18.8ppl 10.3rpg, and 5.3apg. KML numbers last year for comparison 17.6ppl, 6.3rpg, and 2.3apg.
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All you have to do is look at her team. She had to have the ball all the time and she got considerably more minutes than did KML. Given the opportunities that she had, her numbers should be higher than KML because of all the extra floor time and the fact that Duke doesn't emphasize team nearly to the extent that UConn does. Geno doesn't allow any one player for UConn to dominate the floor at any time. UConn has always been far and way the most team oriented major women's basketball team and hence, their success.
 
Auriemma says that Mosqueda - Lewis is the best player on the team. That's
good enough for me.
 
It's politically difficult for any rating group to pick two players from one team. When three are picked, it's almost impossible for fear of favoritism. These analysts need fan support to retain their jobs. I think having picked three UConn player on the two lists shows remarkable courage. It's unrealistic for us to expect more.
 
xHunt3r said:
Umm lets be honest here. KML is an outstanding player, best shooter in the country, and everyone here loves her, but.... Alyssa has a better all around game then KML. She lead her conference in scoring, rebounding, and assist last year with 18.8ppl 10.3rpg, and 5.3apg. KML numbers last year for comparison 17.6ppl, 6.3rpg, and 2.3apg.
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And if you believe that I've got a guard in Knoxville I'd likr to sell you.
 
Code: 
        Games  Minutes   Points  Rebounds  Assist  Block  Steals
KML     38.00  1,146.00  670.00  240.00    89.00   12.00  57.00
Aylissa 34.00  1,163.00  640.00  349.00    181.00  26.00  61.00

Code: 
         Per Game  Per Game  Per Game  Per Game   Per Game  Per Game
         Minutes   Points    Rebounds  Assist     Block     Steals
KML      30.16     17.63     6.32      2.34       0.32      1.50
Aylissa  34.21     18.82     10.26     5.32       0.76      1.79

Code: 
        Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min
        Points     Rebounds   Assist     Block      Steals
KML     23.39      8.38       3.11       0.42       1.99
Aylissa 22.01      12.00      6.23       0.89       2.10

When you take the stats to per 40mins to account for differences with time on the court, Kalenna only pulls ahead in points per min. So, Kalenna is a better scorer per min played... other wise Alyssa is pulling down more rebounds, dishing out more assist, block more shots and coming away with more steals per minute. She has a better all around game. Or shall I say, played a better all around game last year. Kalenna looks like she is going to try and show she can do more this year... reference her play in the exhibition games.
 
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xHunt3r said:
Code: 
        Games  Minutes   Points  Rebounds  Assist  Block  Steals
KML     38.00  1,146.00  670.00  240.00    89.00   12.00  57.00
Aylissa 34.00  1,163.00  640.00  349.00    181.00  26.00  61.00

Code: 
         Per Game  Per Game  Per Game  Per Game   Per Game  Per Game
         Minutes   Points    Rebounds  Assist     Block     Steals
KML      30.16     17.63     6.32      2.34       0.32      1.50
Aylissa  34.21     18.82     10.26     5.32       0.76      1.79

Code: 
        Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min  Per 40min
        Points     Rebounds   Assist     Block      Steals
KML     23.39      8.38       3.11       0.42       1.99
Aylissa 22.01      12.00      6.23       0.89       2.10

When you take the stats to per 40mins to account for differences with time on the court, Kalenna only pulls ahead in points per min. So, Kalenna is a better scorer per min played... other wise Alyssa is pulling down more rebounds, dishing out more assist, block more shots and coming away with more steals per minute. She has a better all around game. Or shall I say, played a better all around game last year. Kalenna looks like she is going to try and show she can do more this year... reference her play in the exhibition games.
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That's great and all, but stats don't tell the whole story. Given that a basketball team consists of five players on the court at any given time, stats are largely dependent on the other players around you. The best way to put it is if you have two players to choose from, Mosqueda-Lewis or Thomas, who do you pick? I'll bet most coaches will take Mosqueda-Lewis over Thomas 9 times out of 10.
 
I have no quarrel with Gray's talent but I'm not sure how you assume her game will be back to 100% following major reconstructive knee surgery. Were she to end up being named at the end of the season, fine. But right now, preseason, is a bit premature IMO.
 
pap49cba said:
I have no quarrel with Gray's talent but I'm not sure how you assume her game will be back to 100% following major reconstructive knee surgery. Were she to end up being named at the end of the season, fine. But right now, preseason, is a bit premature IMO.
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I've seen her twice so far in person.... at the Blue/White Scrimmage on Oct 27... and this past Sunday at the exhibition game vs Coker. Her game is back to 100%... her conditioning isnt quite there yet though, but its close.
 
Buzzyboy said:
All you have to do is look at her team. She had to have the ball all the time and she got considerably more minutes than did KML. Given the opportunities that she had, her numbers should be higher than KML because of all the extra floor time and the fact that Duke doesn't emphasize team nearly to the extent that UConn does. Geno doesn't allow any one player for UConn to dominate the floor at any time. UConn has always been far and way the most team oriented major women's basketball team and hence, their success.
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The comment you're referencing compared KML to Alyssa Thomas, not Chelsea Gray. Regardless, you wrote "Geno doesn't allow one player to dominate the floor at any time." Maryland had 2 player that starred last season, scoring 18.8 (Thomas) and 18 points (Hawkins) each, which was 25% and 24% of their total points scored. Maryland had a rash of injuries last season, so their reliance on Thomas was completely understandable. In Maya's senior year, she averaged 22.8 pts./game, which represented 30% of UConn's total points scored that season. You have to play with the cards you're dealt.
 
It cuts both ways on the KML/AT debate with regard to teammates on the court - KML benefits having a better team surrounding her in that a defense cannot simply focus on stopping her or her and one other player, but has to play 'honest' or be steamrolled by one of the other really good players. AT benefits because if she didn't do it no one else could so her team depended on and looked to her to lead them statistically in every game.
They are both really good players and any coach would jump at getting either of them I think. If I were a coach, it would depend on what else I had on the team to some extent as to which I would take.
OK - take of my objective glasses ... Are you kidding me - of course KML is the better player!:cool:
 
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Bestiarius said:
It's politically difficult for any rating group to pick two players from one team. When three are picked, it's almost impossible for fear of favoritism. These analysts need fan support to retain their jobs. I think having picked three UConn player on the two lists shows remarkable courage. It's unrealistic for us to expect more.
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Same as when the Big East weekly awards used to go to players on other teams. Usually the best a UConn player could expect was a shared award.
 
xHunt3r said:
When you take the stats to per 40mins to account for differences with time on the court, Kalenna only pulls ahead in points per min. So, Kalenna is a better scorer per min played... other wise Alyssa is pulling down more rebounds, dishing out more assist, block more shots and coming away with more steals per minute. She has a better all around game. Or shall I say, played a better all around game last year. Kalenna looks like she is going to try and show she can do more this year... reference her play in the exhibition games.
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Lies, damned lies, and statistics…

The problem with statistics is that they are meaningless unless we know what went into them and how they were calculated. As several others have said, we have to look at the context in which those numbers are accumulated, and the circumstances in which those two players played. In this case to try and compare two players by their numbers that nominally play the same position but in vastly different ways is pointless. But since you’ve decided to go down that road, comparing their totals to an arbitrary calculated 40 minute standard isn’t a relevant way to evaluate these two players

In any game there are only so many possessions, and therefore only so many opportunities to score; every basket that Breanna scores is a basket that the various other killer Bre’s (Brianna, Briana, or Bria) can’t score - or in this case, Kaleena. Statistically players are competing for a limited number of points. In another thread, we talked about the fact that, with all Maryland’s injuries, Alyssa Thomas was forced to carry a disproportionate share of Maryland’s offense, so it would stand to reason that she should have larger numbers than Kaleena, both overall and in this case, per 40 minutes.

On the other hand, Kaleena play’s for a more talented team – it is harder to double on Kaleena if that means leaving Stephanie or Breanna or Kelly unguarded – pick your poison, right? That also leads to less obvious benefits – for example, with the nature of UConn’s offense the ball movement tends to generate better shot opportunities, and reduces the need to force up a bad shot – if it’s not there, just pass off to another All-American...

So the nature of the two teams by itself favors Alyssa in terms of sheer number of opportunities, and Kaleena in terms of the quality of the opportunities; but let’s look at the numbers and see what we get:

There is no need to make any corrections for “40 minute standards” or other nonsense; in raw numbers, Kaleena played four more games (she sat out against Colgate) but had seventeen fewer minutes for the season (just about equal to a half) – that makes sense with the both UConn’s depth and also the number of games in which Geno could rest the starters significantly. Yet in that (less) time Kaleena made 13 more baskets (242 - 229), of which far more were three pointers (118 - 6) or 138 more points from the floor (602 - 464) – again, in fewer minutes. We would expect Kaleena to have a better shooting percentage and she does (.528 - .452, including three pointers).

Where Alyssa catches up is in free throws, which we should expect with the nature of her game compared to Kaleena’s – Alyssa made almost three times as many free throw points as Kaleena (176 - 68) though at a lower percentage (.765 - .895). Even with that huge advantage in foul shots, combined with points from the floor, Kaleena still outscored Alyssa by 30 points (670 - 640), again in fewer minutes. Kaleena’s minutes were spread over more games, though, which gives Alyssa the advantage per game (18.8 – 17.6) but I think we see clearly that the numbers show that Kaleena is the more productive scorer when she is in the game.

Some other statistics – we would expect that Alyssa would probably get more rebounds and she does (349 - 240) – that makes sense considering where they each would tend to be when a shot goes up. Alyssa has far more assists (181 – 89) which makes some sense if we consider that Kaleena is a shooter and is more likely to get the ball in a situation where she is going to shoot than pass. On the other hand, Alyssa also has far more turnovers (137-58) and a worse assist/turnover ratio (1.32 – 1.53). Alyssa had twice as many blocks (26 – 12), but they were just about even in steals (61 – 57).

So what does this all mean? Not much, really. There aren’t any surprises. Kaleena is a better scorer – far better from the floor. Alyssa gets fouled a lot more which we expect from a player who’s game is more oriented on driving and posting up, and many (though certainly not all) of those foul points would otherwise be floor points if she weren’t fouled, but at the end of the day Kaleena still scored more points in fewer minutes, had better percentages from the floor and foul line, and a better assist/turnoever ratio. Alyssa had far more rebounds and blocks, so I think over the course of the season the statistics pretty much confirm what we think of these two players. And again in fairness, with injuries Alyssa became the primary threat (along with Tianna Hawkins) and therefore the primary target of most opponents, while Kaleena played on a far more balanced team where opponents couldn’t afford to concentrate on just her, so points for Alyssa may have been harder to come by.

So who’s the better player? We can’t let the numbers lead us to conclusions that we don’t see on our own; but in this case the numbers do seem to echo the differing nature of their games fairly accurately, and they support my personal subjective opinion that the leading scorer on the best team in the country is the better player.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
That's great and all, but stats don't tell the whole story. Given that a basketball team consists of five players on the court at any given time, stats are largely dependent on the other players around you. The best way to put it is if you have two players to choose from, Mosqueda-Lewis or Thomas, who do you pick? I'll bet most coaches will take Mosqueda-Lewis over Thomas 9 times out of 10.
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more like 10 out of 10. it's not even close. i think kaleena , everything considered, is the best player in the country.
 
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