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Endorsement Deals Shaping the NCAA Tournament

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CL82

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Interesting analogy. I'd add, if you're on salary at IBM, your side gig also cannot hinder your work for IBM, even if it doesn't represent any other sort of conflict.

This concept of "leveraging" is really intriguing and complicated. I think you have to be right about employment status not being the employee's property. That doesn't seem to be a credible argument. Now to test the analogy: 1) is a student athlete an employee? and the prior question, Are students employees? Many students have tested this notion in litigation against universities. Grad student TAs recently won a significant concession from the UC in which they demanded employee benefits, and this entailed being recognized as employees, something the university had resisted for many years. 2) Even if NIL is best understood as a property rights issue, is the student-athlete's training and competing while wearing a university-branded jersey a form of employment? If we think it could be leveraged, we might have to say so. But here again, I think universities have resisted this notion too. But if the student-athletes are not employees, then leverage may not be the appropriate category to apply here. This looks like a delicious rabbit hole to plunge into! Who knows what warren of distinctions might be discovered.

One last thought: the endorsements Paige and Azzi and others get are sometimes for athletic shoe companies and other things tangentially related to their athletic endeavors. But they also endorse things like restaurant chains, electronics brands, etc. In other words, much of their NIL income is not closely related to their student-athlete status and yet was forbidden until recently.

You raise a really interesting question about the application of the prior rules to AzzI or Paige, that being with their Internet fame, be considered derivative of their athletic status. My best guess is probably not given that a pre-existed their affiliation with an NCAA institution so long as the videos they posted the social media weren’t in athletic facilities, like Gampel, I and they were not wearing uniforms or other Connecticut gear.
 
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Absolutely, but the fact that they’ll be competing is implicit and excepting a scholarship, right?

That's a question for lawyers to get rich arguing over.

If I was a genius in physics with a scholarship and made a major discovery that the school sold to private industry for tens of millions do I not have a right to ask for some? Do schools implicitly own whatever their students produce? Does a scholarship change the school-student relationship from academic to economic?
 
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That's a question for lawyers to get rich arguing over.

If I was a genius in physics with a scholarship and made a major discovery that the school sold to private industry for tens of millions do I not have a right to ask for some? Do schools implicitly own whatever their students produce? Does a scholarship change the school-student relationship from academic to economic?
The case of Gatorade is worth considering in this light — an invention the profits for which had to be shared with the university that employed the inventors.
 
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The case of Gatorade is worth considering in this light — an invention the profits for which had to be shared with the university that employed the inventors.
I believe university based researchers are required to sign an agreement prior to beginning research that clearly specifies ownership of any inventions as well as proceeds from commercializing discoveries.

What's important about this is that the researcher has agency and the ability to make a decision about the terms of the legal contract.

Until very recently athletes were denied this agency, and continue to have very very limited legal participation beyond NIL. As an example foreign for an athletes in this country on a Visa I believe have no legal voice. Foreign born researchers in the United States working at a university if I'm not mistaken do that the ability and agency to enter into contracts with universities.
 
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That's a question for lawyers to get rich arguing over.

If I was a genius in physics with a scholarship and made a major discovery that the school sold to private industry for tens of millions do I not have a right to ask for some? Do schools implicitly own whatever their students produce? Does a scholarship change the school-student relationship from academic to economic?
As I indicated below research institutions typically require researchers to sign a legal contract that specifies on their ship and royalties or profit. So in your example as a genius physics student who wishes to engage in research at university you will be presented with a contract by university legal counsel specifying ownership and royalties are positives.

I suppose if you had a genius lawyer who didn't find those terms equitable you could approach another research university and negotiate for a contract more in line with your expectation.

In general until very recently college athletes did not have these rights and opportunities. And currently the NCAA continues to make efforts to significantly limit those rights and opportunities.

As a genius physics student you would also have the option to go directly to the private sector and if your genius idea was good enough negotiate an even better deal through your genius lawyer.

In the status quo athletes have significant restrictions on their ability to go outside the NCAA monopoly domain.
 
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No, what I asked you was whether you could give me an examples of schools profiting off of a player image pre-NIL. Your example was marketing tickets, and televising games. Those things seem part and parcel of being a scholarship athlete, right? In fact, they continue to exist in the NIL era. Your argument that television broadcast are actually a tort which injures student athletes, is, well, let’s call it a unique take.

But now you’re asserting, that schools are somehow using student athletes images to advertise the school “in other ways.” What exactly are these “other ways” that you are imagining?

Regarding your assertion, that schools or the NCAA have somehow impinged upon individuals rights to utilize their own image, you would have to clarify what you mean by that assertion because it feels like you are conflating a few things here. Let me give you a real world example a police officer could get a side job modeling. That would be profiting off their image, right? But most, if not all, police departments prohibit an individual from wearing their uniform for personal commercial ventures. Do you understand the distinction?
I don't think the schools directly profited, but the NCAA did. Madden had to pay theNCAA for player images used in the games and ads for games. Jadaveon Clowney never received a nickle for his garnet and clad college NIL image used in the numerous ads and video games. I have no clue how much, if any, trickled down to SCar from the NCAA treasury. I doubt any was left after administrative costs.
 
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Do we all see where this has inevitably led and will continue to lead? It's not pretty. The NCAA has allowed college sports to be up for sale. They never adopt smart and enforceable regulations, they never oversee anything. It's just play for the highest bidder. Another example is the change in transfer rules. The entire Transfer Portal creation was due to the fact that they couldn't fairly apply the hardship exemption rule and wanted to avoid additional litigation or Congressional intervention and just threw their hands up. Just go play for the highest bidder. for your one shot transfer. Why not bring the transfer rule to high schools also with NIL money? 1-2 punch to college athletics that made the NCAA irrelevant overnight. That is actually welcome.
 
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college sports to be up for sale. They never adopt smart and enforceable regulations, they couldn't fairly apply the hardship exemption rule and wanted to avoid additional litigation or Congressional intervention and just threw their hands up. Just go play for the highest bidder. for your one shot transfer. Why not bring the transfer rule to high schools also with NIL money? 1-2 punch to college athletics that made the NCAA irrelevant overnight. That is actually welcome.
NCAA as a monopolist lost control of the narrative, then the process and finally the product.

I suspect the super conferences will drive the NCAA to irrelevant interference in non revenue sports at the majority of schools which are non elite in football.

As to high school athletes, transfer has been very, very common for decades.
 
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Do we all see where this has inevitably led and will continue to lead? It's not pretty. The NCAA has allowed college sports to be up for sale. They never adopt smart and enforceable regulations, they never oversee anything. It's just play for the highest bidder. Another example is the change in transfer rules. The entire Transfer Portal creation was due to the fact that they couldn't fairly apply the hardship exemption rule and wanted to avoid additional litigation or Congressional intervention and just threw their hands up. Just go play for the highest bidder. for your one shot transfer. Why not bring the transfer rule to high schools also with NIL money? 1-2 punch to college athletics that made the NCAA irrelevant overnight. That is actually welcome.
The NCAA has “allowed” nothing. The Supreme Court forced them to stop being a monopoly that can control individual “labor prices.” They have no ability to control how individual player NIL - Paige, Caitlin, the Cavinders can do with shoe companies, or Bose, or Gatoraid- or even a bench player paid by a local used car lot. Players are free can to do what they want individually.

Let’s talk South Carolina’s team/player NIL deal: isn’t it better that their “minimum wage” is made public? The NCAA can monitor that and make sure it is actually NIL rather than pay for play. We have no clue what most other schools are paying as “minimum wage.”

I favor disclosure of “minimum wage” and the source of the funding by all schools for such deals. Every school is doing it. If not, they will face a lawsuit in the future because the players are entitled to a cut of the school’s merchandizing revenue from Their name, image and likeness.
 
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The NCAA has “allowed” nothing. The Supreme Court forced them to stop being a monopoly that can control individual “labor prices.” They have no ability to control how individual player NIL - Paige, Caitlin, the Cavinders can do with shoe companies, or Bose, or Gatoraid- or even a bench player paid by a local used car lot. Players are free can to do what they want individually.

Let’s talk South Carolina’s team/player NIL deal: isn’t it better that their “minimum wage” is made public? The NCAA can monitor that and make sure it is actually NIL rather than pay for play. We have no clue what most other schools are paying as “minimum wage.”

I favor disclosure of “minimum wage” and the source of the funding by all schools for such deals. Every school is doing it. If not, they will face a lawsuit in the future because the players are entitled to a cut of the school’s merchandizing revenue from Their name, image and likeness.
What Supreme Court case are you referring to? I have no problem with NIL and the original design of it. I have a problem with large athletic slush funds as a result of rich alumni contributions that, combined with the transfer portal, will be the end of college sports as you know it. The money is only going to get bigger, the corruption only bigger, and soon you are going to have wholesale legalized purchase of high school players if you don't have that already. As for the NCAA monitoring South Carolina's minimum wage, you are not serious are you?
 
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What Supreme Court case are you referring to? I have no problem with NIL and the original design of it. I have a problem with large athletic slush funds as a result of rich alumni contributions that, combined with the transfer portal, will be the end of college sports as you know it. The money is only going to get bigger, the corruption only bigger, and soon you are going to have wholesale legalized purchase of high school players if you don't have that already. As for the NCAA monitoring South Carolina's minimum wage, you are not serious are you?
National Collegiate Athletic Assn. v. Alston, 594 US 2147 (2021).

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-512_gfbh.pdf

And yes, i am completely serious. The NCAA can and does monitor to insure that SCar is using NIL money from commercial sponsors and merchandise sales rather than boosters (which the NCAA can prohibit from making payments to athletes). We went public because we are trying to keep everything "transparent." few others do.
 
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The NCAA has “allowed” nothing. The Supreme Court forced them to stop being a monopoly that can control individual “labor prices.” They have no ability to control how individual player NIL - Paige, Caitlin, the Cavinders can do with shoe companies, or Bose, or Gatoraid- or even a bench player paid by a local used car lot. Players are free can to do what they want individually.

Let’s talk South Carolina’s team/player NIL deal: isn’t it better that their “minimum wage” is made public? The NCAA can monitor that and make sure it is actually NIL rather than pay for play. We have no clue what most other schools are paying as “minimum wage.”

I favor disclosure of “minimum wage” and the source of the funding by all schools for such deals. Every school is doing it. If not, they will face a lawsuit in the future because the players are entitled to a cut of the school’s merchandizing revenue from Their name, image and likeness.
Absolutely. The bureaucracy and leadership of the NCAA have been myopic, obstructionist, and focused really on a misguided effort to retain the status quo.

"While players make no money from March Madness, they can now get paid from endorsement deals following a narrow Supreme Court ruling in 2021. This was after the NCAA blocked players from earning money for years."



"March Madness is big business for the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), when its most anticipated basketball games tip off and sports fanatics scramble to fill out tournament brackets and place bets in office pools. The NCAA typically pulls in about a billion dollars each year in revenue from media rights fees, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, and a proliferation of television ads anchored around the three-week-long tournament."
 
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The bottom line is that basketball is on the cusp of shifting to a professional development system that soccer operates around the world, and which baseball also has maintained for nearly a century. Young kids get scouted to play on youth teams operated by major soccer teams. If they develop, they rise up, and then if they're good enough, they join the main team.

Basketball doesn't really need colleges anymore. They appreciated the system that developed young players without having to provide a single dime in salary or facilities, just reaping the reward from drafting adult and talented players. But with NIL and guaranteed payments to players on major WCBB teams, what's the difference between a farm system and what's developing now?

And how will the NCAA continue to exist when compensation is increasingly in the open? The NCAA is there solely to prevent WCBB from having to pay salaries to players. Will players continue to knuckle under to the NCAA and its restrictions when they're looking at big bucks?

This is the death nell of the college game.
 

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The bottom line is that basketball is on the cusp of shifting to a professional development system that soccer operates around the world, and which baseball also has maintained for nearly a century. Young kids get scouted to play on youth teams operated by major soccer teams. If they develop, they rise up, and then if they're good enough, they join the main team.

Basketball doesn't really need colleges anymore. They appreciated the system that developed young players without having to provide a single dime in salary or facilities, just reaping the reward from drafting adult and talented players. But with NIL and guaranteed payments to players on major WCBB teams, what's the difference between a farm system and what's developing now?

And how will the NCAA continue to exist when compensation is increasingly in the open? The NCAA is there solely to prevent WCBB from having to pay salaries to players. Will players continue to knuckle under to the NCAA and its restrictions when they're looking at big bucks?

This is the death nell of the college game.
I disagree.
The NCAA is becoming more successful rather than less successful.
The NCAA also formed a new Constitution in 2022 giving each Division more control over their own rules.
Most athletes want to get an education while being able to play sports.
Female athletes have an even greater need since they have an even shorter window with which to go to school & play sports while still leaving enough time to consider motherhood, raising a family & a career.
There's no other way to combine so many different aspects of growing into adulthood that has become part of attending college, and the success of US Olympians is a reflection of the success of the NCAA sports model.

The NCAA isn't perfect, they've been sued before and have made changes when needed.
They change just like sports rules change, but some fans don't easily accept change.
However the universities represent the forefront of change and will always be able to figure out a way to change with the times for the benefit of society, athletes & most sports, whether the changes are court ordered or not.

 
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National Collegiate Athletic Assn. v. Alston, 594 US 2147 (2021).

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-512_gfbh.pdf

And yes, i am completely serious. The NCAA can and does monitor to insure that SCar is using NIL money from commercial sponsors and merchandise sales rather than boosters (which the NCAA can prohibit from making payments to athletes). We went public because we are trying to keep everything "transparent." few others do.
First of all, that case doesn't say what you think it does. It occurred after the NIL rules was adopted and only involved the regulations the NCAA adopted pursuant to it. Secondly, what about the U. of Miami booster who gave 10 million to the men's and women's basketball teams? What about the boosters all over the country who gave money to the various NIL funds? To say that only commercial sponsors and merchandise sales funds are going into these funds cannot possibly be true. I will test the proposition myself. I will send $ to a random college athletic NIL fund and see if it is returned.
 
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NCAA as a monopolist lost control of the narrative, then the process and finally the product.

I suspect the super conferences will drive the NCAA to irrelevant interference in non revenue sports at the majority of schools which are non elite in football.

As to high school athletes, transfer has been very, very common for decades.
In New Jersey, you can't transfer for athletic benefit only. There are often "hardship" applications and issues about residency for athletes for public schools. Often, you will hear of student/athletes living with their coaches.
 
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Where does it end? My point guard on my 4th grade rec team wants to change teams because my NIL funding is off this year?
 
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First of all, that case doesn't say what you think it does. It occurred after the NIL rules was adopted and only involved the regulations the NCAA adopted pursuant to it. Secondly, what about the U. of Miami booster who gave 10 million to the men's and women's basketball teams? What about the boosters all over the country who gave money to the various NIL funds? To say that only commercial sponsors and merchandise sales funds are going into these funds cannot possibly be true. I will test the proposition myself. I will send $ to a random college athletic NIL fund and see if it is returned.
The NCAA has sanctioned Miami for it’s booster’s activities.

The Supreme Court case broke the NCAAs monopoly that kept players from being paid. That told the NCAA to get out of the way in player incime but left them the power to regulate booster payments. No, it is not directly on point about NIL, but it is on point in cutting NCAA powers drastically.

Send your money to a team that you are a booster of please,
 
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The NCAA has sanctioned Miami for it’s booster’s activities.

The Supreme Court case broke the NCAAs monopoly that kept players from being paid
. That told the NCAA to get out of the way in player incime but left them the power to regulate booster payments. No, it is not directly on point about NIL, but it is on point in cutting NCAA powers drastically.

Send your money to a team that you are a booster of please,
There's increasing momentum to address the abusive monopoly power of the NCAA. The extent to which that momentum has been successful I think is debatable. That said the transfer portal, NIL, an ongoing lawsuits do suggest increasing opposition and opposition to the NCAA.

The Supreme Court case limited but did not break the NCAA power to limit payment to players just think of international players under the current situation. If the NCAA Monopoly power were truly broken Lou or Dorka would have the same earnings opportunities as Paige and Azzi. Monopolies are like the infections that players get in their feet or other areas of the body they're corrosive and extremely difficult to eliminate.

15 years from now after the two football super conferences have developed a track record I think we'll be in a better position to evaluate the extent the NCAA has been curtailed as a corrosive influence and monopolist in college athletics.

Unfortunately the power of the NCAA is still imposed in arbitrary, confusing, and exploitative manners on all non-revenue sports Division 2, and the vast majority of division one schools who don't compete at a high level. I'm hopeful but not optimistic that NCAA interference and control will diminish over the next 15 years, particularly on the vast majority of college athletes who are not currently at elite division 1 schools as represented by the schools who will be competing in the two super conferences.

These are the true student athletes who have been marginalized and exploited over the years.

One really has to look at the ongoing and increasing revenues of the NCAA and the types of investigations that the NCAA conducts to conclude that there's both incompetence and exploitation taking place. I'm thinking of some specific cases including the Waco sexual abuse cases that a true trade organization or governing authority would address with competence, speed, and professionalism. I guess whenever I think of Art Briles or Rick Pitino I think of the absolute failure and exploitative Monopoly that is the NCAA.
 
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There's increasing momentum to address the abusive monopoly power of the NCAA. The extent to which that momentum has been successful I think is debatable. That said the transfer portal, NIL, an ongoing lawsuits do suggest increasing opposition and opposition to the NCAA.

The Supreme Court case limited but did not break the NCAA power to limit payment to players just think of international players under the current situation. If the NCAA Monopoly power were truly broken Lou or Dorka would have the same earnings opportunities as Paige and Azzi. Monopolies are like the infections that players get in their feet or other areas of the body they're corrosive and extremely difficult to eliminate.

15 years from now after the two football super conferences have developed a track record I think we'll be in a better position to evaluate the extent the NCAA has been curtailed as a corrosive influence and monopolist in college athletics.

Unfortunately the power of the NCAA is still imposed in arbitrary, confusing, and exploitative manners on all non-revenue sports Division 2, and the vast majority of division one schools who don't compete at a high level. I'm hopeful but not optimistic that NCAA interference and control will diminish over the next 15 years, particularly on the vast majority of college athletes who are not currently at elite division 1 schools as represented by the schools who will be competing in the two super conferences.

These are the true student athletes who have been marginalized and exploited over the years.

One really has to look at the ongoing and increasing revenues of the NCAA and the types of investigations that the NCAA conducts to conclude that there's both incompetence and exploitation taking place. I'm thinking of some specific cases including the Waco sexual abuse cases that a true trade organization or governing authority would address with competence, speed, and professionalism. I guess whenever I think of Art Briles or Rick Pitino I think of the absolute failure and exploitative Monopoly that is the NCAA.
The SEC is continuously reviewing the possibility of withdrawing from the NCAA. Of course football and money it generates are the primary conference concerns. I would imagine the BIG Ten is considering withdrawal too It perhaps not as strongly or as vocally. If the two mega conferences both withdraw, the NCAA wild sumoly bbecome irrelevant.

One non-football issue that the SEC feels strongly about is scholarship limitations on no -football sports; particularly baseball and softball. Presently, the limitation to 12 scholarships for teams with approximately 25 players means that most players end up getting only half sholarships. The SEC could probably get the ACC PAC and maybe the Big12 to vote their way but that group of big conferences would still be outvoted by the small schools that want to control their expenditures.

The Power Six pays for smaller conferences to compete with them. Fair or unfair I dunno.
I
 
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There's increasing momentum to address the abusive monopoly power of the NCAA. The extent to which that momentum has been successful I think is debatable. That said the transfer portal, NIL, an ongoing lawsuits do suggest increasing opposition and opposition to the NCAA.

The Supreme Court case limited but did not break the NCAA power to limit payment to players just think of international players under the current situation. If the NCAA Monopoly power were truly broken Lou or Dorka would have the same earnings opportunities as Paige and Azzi. Monopolies are like the infections that players get in their feet or other areas of the body they're corrosive and extremely difficult to eliminate.

15 years from now after the two football super conferences have developed a track record I think we'll be in a better position to evaluate the extent the NCAA has been curtailed as a corrosive influence and monopolist in college athletics.

Unfortunately the power of the NCAA is still imposed in arbitrary, confusing, and exploitative manners on all non-revenue sports Division 2, and the vast majority of division one schools who don't compete at a high level. I'm hopeful but not optimistic that NCAA interference and control will diminish over the next 15 years, particularly on the vast majority of college athletes who are not currently at elite division 1 schools as represented by the schools who will be competing in the two super conferences.

These are the true student athletes who have been marginalized and exploited over the years.

One really has to look at the ongoing and increasing revenues of the NCAA and the types of investigations that the NCAA conducts to conclude that there's both incompetence and exploitation taking place. I'm thinking of some specific cases including the Waco sexual abuse cases that a true trade organization or governing authority would address with competence, speed, and professionalism. I guess whenever I think of Art Briles or Rick Pitino I think of the absolute failure and exploitative Monopoly that is the NCAA.
Women's basketball just doesn't need the NCAA anymore. With money coming in legally, the raison d'etre of the NCAA, to keep money out, is gone. It's fighting a battle it's already lost.

Better to let young women sign with professional teams that train them property and funnel them into top pro leagues, rather than deal with the NCAA's BS.

That is the system in Europe, and has been for years.
 
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Women's basketball just doesn't need the NCAA anymore. With money coming in legally, the raison d'etre of the NCAA, to keep money out, is gone. It's fighting a battle it's already lost.

Better to let young women sign with professional teams that train them property and funnel them into top pro leagues, rather than deal with the NCAA's BS.

That is the system in Europe, and has been for years.
The NCAA opened the barn doors and then decided they wanted to regulate how fast the horses run out.
 
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Women's basketball just doesn't need the NCAA anymore. With money coming in legally, the raison d'etre of the NCAA, to keep money out, is gone. It's fighting a battle it's already lost.

Better to let young women sign with professional teams that train them property and funnel them into top pro leagues, rather than deal with the NCAA's BS.

That is the system in Europe, and has been for years.
None of the athletes who are forced to enroll in college prior to a professional career need the NCAA. I'd go a step farther and say no athlete in college needs the NCAA as whatever mission the bureaucrats of the NCAA articulate they fail to achieve and fail miserably.

NCAA a monopoly? | Department of Economics

"I teach an Economics of Sports class here at Iowa State University. In my class, we discuss the economic structure of the NCAA and professional sports leagues in the U.S. You are correct that the NCAA is a cartel and so is a professional sports league."

"The ability to influence or have some control over the terms of trade in selling is referred to as ‘monopoly power’ and in buying it is referred to as ‘monopsony power’. The NCAA generates approximately $1 billion in revenue annually. Most of that revenue comes from their ‘monopoly’ power to sell broadcast rights to the NCAA post-season basketball tournament."

Monopolies, cartels, trade organizations, whatever term you wish to apply to the NCAA and like organizations they have one goal in mind and that is to benefit the organization at the expense of the consumers, workers, suppliers, and society at large.
 
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The NCAA has sanctioned Miami for it’s booster’s activities.

The Supreme Court case broke the NCAAs monopoly that kept players from being paid. That told the NCAA to get out of the way in player incime but left them the power to regulate booster payments. No, it is not directly on point about NIL, but it is on point in cutting NCAA powers drastically.

Send your money to a team that you are a booster of please,
Once again, the case which I just read in full didn't break the monopoly and force compensation. It held that their current methods of restricting and dictating compensation which they previously adopted were in restraint of trade. This case came after compensation was allowed. It also invalidated the NCAA's policy of not allowing graduate education to be offered to induce an athlete to attend which tells you everything about the NCAA. The problem is that once you combine the compensation window called NIL with the transfer portal, you are basically allowing solicitation and a form of corruption. You will also see the emergence of super conferences and the death of parity. "I'll get you $500,000.00 if you come here", whether spoken by a coach in violation of the rules or a booster or a friend of a friend of a player invites veniality.
 
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