End of Year Awards | Page 3 | The Boneyard

End of Year Awards

Ok. bbsamjj's argument is a pretty good one. Maybe Juju is . . . . not undeserving.
 
bballnut90 said:
I’d put Kitley on there as of right now. Better stats, better in big games, and better team results. My 5 would be Clark, Brink, Watkins, Hidalgo and Kitley. 2nd Team I’d choose Bueckers, Cardoso, Reese, Pili and Sheldon. Beers and Lee are just misses at this point for me.
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It's really close. I was at the unc vs UConn game. Unc was top 25 at the time. Bueckers was incredible. She was pretty great vs Louisville as well. She definitely struggled against Texas and Notre Dame. And average against South Carolina. I actually thought she was great against NC State, we just didn't realize how good NC State was at the time.

Kitley wasn't great early in the season against Iowa or LSU, though she may have had a double double both games. She struggled in their loss to Duke and Florida State. But she's been amazing almost every other game. Id probably edge Kitley too tho but I kinda think it's a pick em. UConn does have one more loss but they've had a lot more injuries and shuffling of the lineup.

If Gonzaga ends the season with just two losses can Yvonne Ejm get some love. Comparable stats to pili except more rebounds. Put up 27 in a W vs Stanford..

Loved the two list tho.
 
bennyskid said:
... and JuJu was 11-33 in her first game against OSU. She's the definition of "volume shooter".

Color me unimpressed. She has talent, but I just can't imagine that there aren't 10 players better than her in the country.
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51 points, 11 rebounds, 4 steals in a victory over Stanford; you are an awfully hard person to impress. There is a chance that there are 5 better players, but certainly not 10.
 
VAUConnFan said:
51 points, 11 rebounds, 4 steals in a victory over Stanford; you are an awfully hard person to impress. There is a chance that there are 5 better players, but certainly not 10.
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Was there to see it live. Honestly, we didn't even defend her poorly - she was just hitting one contested mid-range jumper after another. If she can get 30+ points off the lowest percentage shots in the game, you just gotta tip your hat. I have no doubt she's one of the 5 best players in WCBB. She looked ready to start in the W already, and she's only going to get better in the next three years...
 
TheFarmFan said:
Was there to see it live. Honestly, we didn't even defend her poorly - she was just hitting one contested mid-range jumper after another. If she can get 30+ points off the lowest percentage shots in the game, you just gotta tip your hat. I have no doubt she's one of the 5 best players in WCBB. She looked ready to start in the W already, and she's only going to get better in the next three years...
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From what I've seen, only on TV, The FarmFan, I'd tend to agree, but her consistency is very much open to question. 6 of 32 in her most recent game, even in a victory, was horrible. and she's had other games with a very low percentage from the floor.

Yes, I understand she's a freshman and perhaps more prone to inconsistency, but when choosing All-Americans, shouldn't we be looking at all of her games, regardless of her class?
 
This is probably not the appropriate thread but can we do all conference teams too? Cuz I wanna go on a Sarah Ashlee Barker rant. She's been lights out this season. I always thought she was talented, like when she was at Georgia. Had good size and was a good athlete. But to go from 7 points a game to like 17 6 and 3 on her shooting splits is remarkable. And she should make All SEC first team. Overall Alabama is low key a fun team to watch. Angela Nye is awesome as well. I think they lose big tonight but don't hold that against them.
All SEC first team
Paopao
Barker
Jackson
Reese
Cardoso

I hate to not put Morrow on but Tennessee with Rickea and without Rickea is night and day.
 
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The deacon said:
From what I've seen, only on TV, The FarmFan, I'd tend to agree, but her consistency is very much open to question. 6 of 32 in her most recent game, even in a victory, was horrible. and she's had other games with a very low percentage from the floor.

Yes, I understand she's a freshman and perhaps more prone to inconsistency, but when choosing All-Americans, shouldn't we be looking at all of her games, regardless of her class?
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I mean, even Stewie had some 2-11 and 1-7 games her freshman year, and she shared the court with multiple A-As who deflected a lot of defensive attention. Off nights happen even to Goats. The difference is Stewie had Geno.

Without throwing her coach too far under the bus, let's just say I suspect part of JuJu's inconsistent shooting stats are as much about the quality of the offensive plays drawn up for her / her team as anything else. 6-32 is at least as much on the coach for not coming up with a Plan B. The idea of any player attempting that under Geno is laughable - his head might actually explode.

I feel really, really confident that JuJu is generationally talented after watching her play up close and in person. First time I've ever been in Maples to see Stanford lose, and even I was glad to be there just to witness such an unforgettable athletic performance.
 
jdote33 said:
This is probably not the appropriate thread but can we do all conference teams too? Cuz I wanna go on a Sarah Ashlee Barker rant. She's been lights out this season. I always thought she was talented, like when she was at Georgia. Had good size and was a good athlete. But to go from 7 points a game to like 17 6 and 3 on her shooting splits is remarkable. And she should make All SEC first team. Overall Alabama is low key a fun team to watch. Angela Nye is awesome as well. I think they lose big tonight but don't hold that against them.
All SEC first team
Paopao
Barker
Jackson
Reese
Cardoso

I hate to not put Morrow on but Tennessee with Rickea and without Rickea is night and day.
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I think this thread is appropriate for conference discussion too. Barker is having a great year but I'd choose Morrow over her. That said, last year 8 players made 1st team All-SEC, so there's room for both. I'd choose:

Angel Reese (POY)
Kamilla Cardoso
Rickea Jackson
Aneesah Morrow
JerKaila Jordan
Sarah Ashlee Barker
Raven Johnson
Te-hina Pao Pao


Worth noting, I would've put Taliah Scott on the team but she has likely missed too many games (6) to be eligible for conference awards.
 
The deacon said:
From what I've seen, only on TV, The FarmFan, I'd tend to agree, but her consistency is very much open to question. 6 of 32 in her most recent game, even in a victory, was horrible. and she's had other games with a very low percentage from the floor.

Yes, I understand she's a freshman and perhaps more prone to inconsistency, but when choosing All-Americans, shouldn't we be looking at all of her games, regardless of her class?
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Caitlin Clark had her share of poor shooting nights as a sophomore but was still a unanimous 1st team All American and likely NPOY runner up to Boston. Some shooting numbers below from that year:

4-19 FG vs. Creighton
6-17 FG vs. Indiana
7-25 FG vs. Maryland
6-17 FG @ Penn State
5-14 FG @ Purdue
5-18 FG vs. UCF
9-25 FG vs. Michigan State
9-27 FG @ Duke
2-9 FG vs. Southern


Just from a historical aspect, I don't think there's ever been a player who has averaged 25+ PPG and led her team to be ranked top 10 almost all year who wasn't picked for 1st Team All America honors.
 
GoChips20 said:
Paige is going to win based on narrative (and she is deserving, no doubt) but I’d give it to Edwards. Producing excellent numbers while playing out of position as the only serviceable frontcourt player on the team.
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ConnMotors said:
The way that Edwards is currently playing she will be named the Big East Player of the Year.
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A few days ago, @ucbart texted me and @EricLA with his hot take about Aaliyah Edwards being Big East POY. She has been a dominant force but in such a workmanlike, unsung way.
I would be thrilled if Edwards won BE POY!
 
Paige is going to win and it isn't just on narrative. She is producing excellent numbers across the board, points rebounds assists fg% 3pt%. Steals, Blocks all around outstanding defense. And all of this while playing out of position. Outstanding leadership, the glue that holds the team together and outstanding character.

Yes Aaliyah is deserving but ....
 
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JuJu goes for 42 against a very good Colorado squad. TheFarmFan is right - She is Top 5 without doubt.

It should also be noted that there are a ton of outstanding freshmen making major contributions throughout WCBB. The freshman I will be having my eyes on over the next three seasons is Milaysia Fulwiley at South Carolina; might already be the most skilled player in WCBB and her defense improves with every outing.
 
bballnut90 said:
Just from a historical aspect, I don't think there's ever been a player who has averaged 25+ PPG and led her team to be ranked top 10 almost all year who wasn't picked for 1st Team All America honors.
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As you using stats to determine potential AA status, since 2002-03 every player who has averaged 25+ PPG for a Top 15 ranked team (Last Week AP Rank) has been an 1st Team AP AA.

In fact there was only 1 player from a ranked team who wasn't 1st Team, which was Andre Riley (2009-10 Oklahoma St. Ranked 20) who was 2nd Team AP AA that year.

Table below is sorted by TS% (which is favorable to Waktins because she shoots so many Free Throws), even then she would still have the worst shooting efficiency to make 1st Team AP AA.

Bold = PPG Season Leader

20240223 25 PPG AP AA 1st Team.jpg
 
maccca3232 said:
As you using stats to determine potential AA status, since 2002-03 every player who has averaged 25+ PPG for a Top 15 ranked team (Last Week AP Rank) has been an 1st Team AP AA.

In fact there was only 1 player from a ranked team who wasn't 1st Team, which was Andre Riley (2009-10 Oklahoma St. Ranked 20) who was 2nd Team AP AA that year.

Table below is sorted by TS% (which is favorable to Waktins because she shoots so many Free Throws), even then she would still have the worst shooting efficiency to make 1st Team AP AA.

Bold = PPG Season Leader

View attachment 96877
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Stats are a big determining factor, but also eye test, performances in big games, team success and how a player helps her team win games should be considered. People can use whatever criteria they like to support certain players, but at the end of the day I don’t see 5 other players having better seasons or a more well rounded case than Watkins even if she isn’t the most efficient.
 
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Gabby Williams was WBCA, USBWA, and AP All American for 2 seasons. Eye test during prime time games most definitely had an influence on voters.

Do any of these recognize or use Effective Field Goal %, True Shooting %, and Per 40 Averages, when determining awards?

  • NCAA.
  • Naismith.
  • Associated Press.
  • Wade Trophy / Women’s Basketball Coaches Association.
  • Ann Meyers Drysdale Award / United States Basketball Writers Association.

Just a comparison only. No claims being made. No assumptions being made.


PointsReboundsAssistsSteals
Gabby - junior14.38.45.12.7
Gabby - senior10.87.35.02.4
Hannah Hildago23.76.25.54.9
JuJu Watkins28.17.03.42.6
 
Twelve said:
Gabby Williams was WBCA, USBWA, and AP All American for 2 seasons. Eye test during prime time games most definitely had an influence on voters.

Do any of these recognize or use Effective Field Goal %, True Shooting %, and Per 40 Averages, when determining awards?

  • NCAA.
  • Naismith.
  • Associated Press.
  • Wade Trophy / Women’s Basketball Coaches Association.
  • Ann Meyers Drysdale Award / United States Basketball Writers Association.

Just a comparison only. No claims being made. No assumptions being made.


PointsReboundsAssistsSteals
Gabby - junior14.38.45.12.7
Gabby - senior10.87.35.02.4
Hannah Hildago23.76.25.54.9
JuJu Watkins28.17.03.42.6
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For context the discussion was if Watkins should be 1st Team AP AA. I confirm Gabby was a 2 x 2nd Team AP AA.
 
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Vowelguy said:
Meaning … ?
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Effective FG% in essence converts three point attempts to the equivalent two point %. A third of your threes would be equivalent to 50% of your two's etc. True shooting percentage takes that one step further by taking into account free throws, both how often you draw fouls and what % of your FT's you make.

In that case you are substituting or converting FT's into FG attempts and because most players have a higher FT % their TS% will be higher than their EFG%. So TS% is trying to take all forms of shooting including 3pt and FT attempts and converting them into a 2pt equivalent that compensates for the greater value of a 3pt shot and factors in both drawing and making FT attempts.

There is actually one statistic that goes even further factoring in turnovers as a failed attempt to score, taking the TS% data and adding an adjustment for turnovers. that is called Points Per Play (PPP).
 
oldhusky said:
Effective FG% in essence converts three point attempts to the equivalent two point %. A third of your threes would be equivalent to 50% of your two's etc. True shooting percentage takes that one step further by taking into account free throws, both how often you draw fouls and what % of your FT's you make.

In that case you are substituting or converting FT's into FG attempts and because most players have a higher FT % their TS% will be higher than their EFG%. So TS% is trying to take all forms of shooting including 3pt and FT attempts and converting them into a 2pt equivalent that compensates for the greater value of a 3pt shot and factors in both drawing and making FT attempts.

There is actually one statistic that goes even further factoring in turnovers as a failed attempt to score, taking the TS% data and adding an adjustment for turnovers. that is called Points Per Play (PPP).
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Great writeup. I think PPP is the best overall metric, because someone sloppy but aggressive and a good shooter will generate a lot of points but also, potentially, a lot for the other team, too. TS is best as a pure measure of overall shooting ability, but I think PPP is the gold standard for who's has the best overall offensive game.
 
Conference Predictions now the regular season is over:

Big Ten:
POY: Cailin Clark, Iowa
COY: Kevin McGuff, Ohio State
FOY: Natalie Potts, Nebraska

I think these awards will be the most straight forward.

PAC 12:
POY: Cameron Brink, Stanford
COY: Scott Rueck, Oregon State
FOY: Juju Watkins, USC

Brink/Watkins are easy picks. COY could easily go to Gottlieb too.

ACC:
POY: Elizabeth Kitley, Virginia Tech
COY: Felisha Legette-Jack, Syracuse
FOY: Hannah Hidalgo, Notre Dame

POY/FOY look like clear cut choices. COY I think Legette-Jack is the best pick but Wes Moore also has a strong case.

SEC:
POY: Angel Reese, LSU
COY: Dawn Staley, South Carolina
FOY: Mikaylah Williams, LSU

FOY is likely a toss up between Fulwiley and Williams since Scott is likely ineligible due to games missed. Their conference only stats are similar with a slight edge to Williams, but Fulwiley is a lot more disruptive defensively and SC won the conference.

Dawn should get COY (and National Coach of the Year for the 4th time in 5 years) but Shea Ralph deserves a major shout out for the job she's done at Vanderbilt. I don't think anyone predicted they'd have a winning record in conference play. Reese is the obvious POY this season.

Big 12:
POY: Madison Booker, Texas
COY Jennie Baranczyk, Oklahoma
FOY Madison Booker, Texas (or Co-FOY with Audi Crooks)

Looking at conference only stats, Booker is the POY even though she's a freshman. In conference she's averaging 20.2 points, 5.4 rebounds, and 5.5 assists while shooting 48% from the field and 92% from the free throw line. Her team finished 2nd in conference with a 14-4 record.

Other potential other candidates are:

Audi Crooks-19.7 points and 8.8 rebounds on 54% shooting in conference play. Team finished 4th at 12-6

JJ Quinerly-19.4 points, 3.1 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2.8 steals on 43% shooting in conference play. Team finished 4th at 12-6.

Skylar Vann-15.6 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists on 50% shooting. Team finished 1st at 15-3


Ayoka Lee was injured for too many games so she isn't a candidate. COY I think goes to Baranczyk but you could make a case for Schafer or Mittie too.

Big East:
POY: Paige Bueckers, Connecticut
COY Geno Auriemma, Connecticut
FOY: Ashlynn Shade, Connecticut

The Paige/Aaliyah debate is somewhat of a crapshoot, but Paige's conference only numbers are phenomenal so she gets the nod (22 ppg, 57% FG). I think most UCONN fans are hoping Edwards gets it since Paige has won it before and will likely win it again next year, but if I had to pick between the two based solely on conference play this season, Paige is my pick.

Geno is the clear choice for COY going undefeated in conference after all of the injuries.
 
Coach Staley with well-deserved recognition as SEC Coach of the Year this morning. I say that as a very proud fan of Shea Ralph, who, in most other seasons, would merit serious consideration for the award. But, what Dawn Staley has done this season is truly remarkable, and I can only tip my hat to her.

Also, I think Kristy Curry at Alabama deserves to have a mention along with coach Ralph. Both have had great seasons.
 
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A bit surprised LSU and Ole Miss both have two players on SEC first team while SC only has one; although potentially the 3 players from SC on second team all split votes.
 
Geew1992 said:
I don't think Bueckers is a lock. Her running mate, Edwards and Karlen, from Marquette, may have a word.
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it's Paige or Aaliyah for sure in the Big East.........the bigger question is do either or both of them get first or second-team All American honors.....
 
bballnut90 said:
Ashlyn Watkins not being on the All-Defensive team is criminal
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Curious about the 8-player all SEC team. Did the SEC only go to 8-player teams when the league went to 14 teams, or is that the WBB tradition in the SEC? The Big Ten is a 10-player all-conference team.
 
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