OT: Emoni Bates arrested

[huskiesouth]

More actual facts are needed. In any traffic stop the police have a right to take reasonable measures to insure their own safety, which includes looking in the windows for the presence of weapons. If a plain sight search from the outside of the vehicle revealed a weapon that’s all they would need.

But if such a search revealed nothing, next question is why did they have driver exit the vehicle. If drive has no valid license, has a criminal record or appears to be inebriated etc. removing from vehicle is probably valid, in which case police have right to look at area where driver was sitting for a plain sight weapon. They have the right to ask driver if he has any weapons on his person and have the right to perform a search of his person.

As for searching the rest of the vehicle the law is fuzzy. If the police had already determined that driver does not own vehicle they cannot ask his permission for a search since he does not have authority to grant permission. If the police had not yet determined driver did not own vehicle and asked his permission to search the vehicle they needed some level of probable cause to ask for such permission. Driver being a seven- foot tall black man is not supposed to create probable cause to ask for search permission.

And this is why lawyers and cops and judges are held in such universal high esteem.

 

[husky429]

There’s nothing you can do about it. Maybe on board car cameras will help people these days, but if you get yanked and are trying to be peaceful because you’ve done nothing egregious, throwing an iPhone in their face will only exacerbate situations. They have full latitude, because they will more often than not make probable cause up .

Unfortunately, it's up to citizens and not the police to be reasonable in these situations because our laws aren't designed to protect us from police oversight except after the fact. "Protect and Serve" is a load of crap, and they are certainly not public servants except when they feel like it. And at a huge cost and inconvenience to the citizen. Like you said, cops don't really care if the search is legal because they can make your life hell anyways.

Use a dash cam, calmly and politely say "I do not consent to a search" over and over and over again even as a grown man with a gun berates and abuses you. Expect to be called names, lied to (legally), and be told that you have no option. If a cop asks you to leave the car, you are required to listen, and there's a not-insignificant chance that you will be assaulted. Basically do everything they say and hope they do something illegal.

 

[husky429]

If the police had already determined that driver does not own vehicle they cannot ask his permission for a search since he does not have authority to grant permission.

This is not true if the owner is not present. This is only true if the owner is present.

 

[BPT2Storrs]

More actual facts are needed. In any traffic stop the police have a right to take reasonable measures to insure their own safety, which includes looking in the windows for the presence of weapons. If a plain sight search from the outside of the vehicle revealed a weapon that’s all they would need.

But if such a search revealed nothing, next question is why did they have driver exit the vehicle. If drive has no valid license, has a criminal record or appears to be inebriated etc. removing from vehicle is probably valid, in which case police have right to look at area where driver was sitting for a plain sight weapon. They have the right to ask driver if he has any weapons on his person and have the right to perform a search of his person.

As for searching the rest of the vehicle the law is fuzzy. If the police had already determined that driver does not own vehicle they cannot ask his permission for a search since he does not have authority to grant permission. If the police had not yet determined driver did not own vehicle and asked his permission to search the vehicle they needed some level of probable cause to ask for such permission. Driver being a seven- foot tall black man is not supposed to create probable cause to ask for search permission.

And this is why lawyers and cops and judges are held in such universal high esteem.

What can the police use as “probable clause” to search the vehicle?

 

[husky429]

What can the police use as “probable clause” to search the vehicle?

Seeing weapons, drugs or something else indicating illegal activity. Smelling drugs. Someone acting drunk. Statement from someone nearby implicating you in a crime. The one that cops use to do much of what they want is that if they reasonably believe they could be in danger they are allowed to search. Stuff like that.

 

[huskiesouth]

What can the police use as “probable clause” to search the vehicle?

It’s always fact driven. Driver attempted to evade police, driver has a weapon or contraband on his body, vehicle is seriously overweight and driver has no explanation (call in the dogs), vehicle reported stolen, active warrant out on driver or owner of vehicle, etc.

 

[UconnU]

Why all the talk about the search not being justified? Is Bates using that defense? I thought he said it wasn’t his car and he didn’t know the gun was in there.

 

[huskiesouth]

Why all the talk about the search not being justified? Is Bates using that defense? I thought he said it wasn’t his car and he didn’t know the gun was in there.

Someone’s going to take a hit for the gun. The attorney representing Bates will throw every possible defense at the prosecutors as early as possible to convince them to tell the cops to focus on the owner of the vehicle rather than the current apparently naive accused.

 

[UconnU]

Someone’s going to take a hit for the gun. The attorney representing Bates will throw every possible defense at the prosecutors as early as possible to convince them to tell the cops to focus on the owner of the vehicle rather than the current apparently naive accused.

I wonder if he’ll just get a fall guy to say it was his gun. He has a lot more to lose than some of his friends.

 

[huskiesouth]

I wonder if he’ll just get a fall guy to say it was his gun. He has a lot more to lose than some of his friends.

Probably not, even in Michigan where more guns are carried in public than library books destroying gun ID information is a serious offense.

 

[superjohn]

Someone’s going to take a hit for the gun. The attorney representing Bates will throw every possible defense at the prosecutors as early as possible to convince them to tell the cops to focus on the owner of the vehicle rather than the current apparently naive accused.

We don't even know if it's someone else's car, that's what his lawyer said.

 

[superjohn]

Probably not, even in Michigan where more guns are carried in public than library books destroying gun ID information is a serious offense.

Michigan isn't all that big a gun state.

 

[huskiesouth]

We don't even know if it's someone else's car, that's what his lawyer said.

Are you implying that a lawyer might stretch a ‘fact’?

 

[huskiesouth]

Michigan isn't all that big a gun state.

At least twice in the Spring of 2020 armed protestors invaded and took over the Michigan state capital building, upset about COVID regulations. They were not arrested as open carry is legal in Michigan. Michigan has more armed militia members than any other state, including Floriduh where I hang my hat.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Pretty sure probable cause searches are legal in Connecticut.

My statement concerned rolling through a stop sign or a red light, which is what the article suggested. No way that calls for a search.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Are you kidding?

I’m 55 years old , drug free ( not even weed) with a good job and a 21 year old college student daughter and another daughter on the way in a week. I’ve had my car torn apart twice in last 5 years ( last time a year ago with 3 cop cars ) in CT because it’s 2am and how dare I drive with guitar gear in my car on way home from a gig. One stop cause was a dirty license plate. Seriously.

I would never have anything illegal in my car, and I would still never allow my car to be searched. I would ask to speak to the captain and then the chief and then the mayor. Zero reason for a search in the instances you mentioned. I’d sue.

 

[superjohn]

At least twice in the Spring of 2020 armed protestors invaded and took over the Michigan state capital building, upset about COVID regulations. They were not arrested as open carry is legal in Michigan. Michigan has more armed militia members than any other state, including Floriduh where I hang my hat.

Michigan is a shall issue state, it's not a permitless concealed carry state like half of the states are. They're only 38th in gun ownership per capita out off the 50 states.

 

[8893]

At least twice in the Spring of 2020 armed protestors invaded and took over the Michigan state capital building, upset about COVID regulations. They were not arrested as open carry is legal in Michigan. Michigan has more armed militia members than any other state, including Floriduh where I hang my hat.

There’s even a song about it

 

[superjohn]

My statement concerned rolling through a stop sign or a red light, which is what the article suggested. No way that calls for a search.

That's what he was pulled over for, not what he was searched for.

 

[XLCenterFan]

That's what he was pulled over for, not what he was searched for.

Then the article is pointless. Can someone here FOI this please? We need to know!!!!

 

[UconnU]

My statement concerned rolling through a stop sign or a red light, which is what the article suggested. No way that calls for a search.

Was it actually a search or was the gun just visible?

 

[husky429]

At least twice in the Spring of 2020 armed protestors invaded and took over the Michigan state capital building, upset about COVID regulations. They were not arrested as open carry is legal in Michigan. Michigan has more armed militia members than any other state, including Floriduh where I hang my hat.

Open carry is legal in CT, too.