East Hartford’s Rentschler Field needs $63 million upgrade, new study says. ‘like walking into a time capsule’

[FfldCntyFan]

I have never looked into it so I don’t have an estimate. I’m confident it wouldn’t be an insurmountable number.

Try to ballpark it.

Better yet, as you are confident that it wouldn't be an insurmountable figure, please state a number that would be at the low end of an insurmountable figure (a starting point where anything there or above would be cost prohibitive). We can use that as a starting point. I imagine that it wouldn't take too long for you to determine a number where at that cost or higher, it would be senseless to build on campus.

After that I would like to know if you believe the non-insurmountable figure that you feel the on campus stadium would cost would fall at 20%, 45%, 70%, whatever of the insurmountable number. I'll give you a very large margin for error with the percentages on this.

 

[CL82]

Try to ballpark it.

Better yet, as you are confident that it wouldn't be an insurmountable figure, please state a number that would be at the low end of an insurmountable figure (a starting point where anything there or above would be cost prohibitive). We can use that as a starting point. I imagine that it wouldn't take too long for you to determine a number where at that cost or higher, it would be senseless to build on campus.

After that I would like to know if you believe the non-insurmountable figure that you feel the on campus stadium would cost would fall at 20%, 45%, 70%, whatever of the insurmountable number. I'll give you a very large margin for error with the percentages on this.

Sorry, I really don’t have a basis or any expertise to be able to do that. But you can look at the other posts in this thread that are based on other stadiums and get a sense of it. Or maybe Google it yourself?

Were you able to find anything about the time they tried to build a stadium on Horsebarn Hill? I didn’t remember it, but you seemed very confident that it happened and that there was considerable opposition to it that prevented it. That seems like some thing that there would be an article on memorializing it.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I get the difficulty but it's doable. A smart and savvy politician, who first galvanizes significant local support can get it done. For example, if the most vocal opponent is a former fire chief, perhaps Mansfield needs a new fire station and a few new trucks--lol.

Let's take a look at a place where it was done successfully. I believe the poster child for the process is the U of Minnesota.

The University pushed for a new on-campus stadium for football beginning in the fall of 2000, citing poor revenue and lack of a college football atmosphere at the off-campus Metrodome as their main reasons for wanting to move back on campus. (Sound familiar?)

The university concentrated on drafting a stadium proposal that would draw the support of state politicians.They went through the bumps and grinds of the legislative process and ultimately built this stadium (which seats 50,000).

View attachment 79774

Construction started in 2006 and it opened in 2009. The total cost was $288M. (Today, I don't know, $400M?)

As a product of negotiations in the legislature, 52% was borne by the University and 48% by the State of Minnesota The University then sold naming rights to a large bank, received parking and concession revenue, charged a modest $25 fee per student and engaged in smart PR, They built a Native American Plaza and received a $14.5M donation from the local Mdewakanton tribe. (Notice any similarities for us here in CT?) They also built a Marching band facility next to the stadium for easy access. (we lack any band facility, unlike UMass, which has a great one.) UMinn raised a lot of money from music alumni and the music industry.

They were also savvy to put plaques in the stadium walls honoring every county in the state, since all of them contributed. And on and on and on.

We don't need a stadium that large, but UM's is a great place to start. As Mora says "hard things are hard"--but not impossible. Don't tell me it can't be done in CT.

Larry,

It was be far more than that.

Cost of concrete for commercial construction is currently double what it was in 2019 (with the expectation that it will continue to rise drastically). In 2018 the cost was nearly double what it was in 2011 and then it was 60% higher than it was in 2004.

If we would be willing to attempt a UCF type tin can (not sure what has happened to the cost of metals over that time frame) it may be more affordable but...

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Sorry, I really don’t have a basis or any expertise to be able to do that. But you can look at the other posts in this thread that are based on other stadiums and get a sense of it. Or maybe Google it yourself?

Were you able to find anything about the time they tried to build a stadium on Horsebarn Hill? I didn’t remember it, but you seemed very confident that it happened.

Haven't looked recently. When I get home tonight I'll look for it. I don't want to use a cell phone for that.

I do have a bit of background in commercial construction (financial end) and I can assure you that the cost will be prohibitive (for openers, look at my recent response to Nostical). If there is no land cost (as it was with the Rent two decades ago) and similar excavation costs (do not see how this would be possible considering the favorable landscape at PW in comparison to the campus in Storrs), an identical structure would be at a minimum five to six times the cost of building the Rent when we did. Viewing what we have ahead of us with inflation and fuel costs (quite a bit of heavy machinery is required for projects like this and gasoline consumption is astronomical), six times the cost may be very conservative.

 

[CL82]

Haven't looked recently. When I get home tonight I'll look for it. I don't want to use a cell phone for that.

I do have a bit of background in commercial construction (financial end) and I can assure you that the cost will be prohibitive (for openers, look at my recent response to Nostical). If there is no land cost (as it was with the Rent two decades ago) and similar excavation costs (do not see how this would be possible considering the favorable landscape at PW in comparison to the campus in Storrs), an identical structure would be at a minimum five to six times the cost of building the Rent when we did. Viewing what we have ahead of us with inflation and fuel costs (quite a bit of heavy machinery is required for projects like this and gasoline consumption is astronomical), six times the cost may be very conservative.

That seems high compared to what other universities are spending for comparable or larger stadiums.

Given your background in commercial real estate, I would be very interested in why you feel that the university of Connecticut would have to pay such a significant premium versus other institutions and why you feel that making this investment would be “prohibitive” for the state of Connecticut. One would think it is entirely feasible given the availability of 30 year bonding opportunities.

 

[Stinger92860]

Retractable dome on Horsebarn Hill! Go BIG or go home. Lol…

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That seems high compared to what other universities are spending for comparable or larger stadiums.

Given your background in commercial real estate, I would be very interested in why you feel that the university of Connecticut would have to pay such a significant premium versus other institutions and why you feel that making this investment would be “prohibitive” for the state of Connecticut. One would think it is entirely feasible given the availability of 30 year bonding opportunities.

You can begin with the part of the country where we are located and the comparative cost of labor. Add disparities in licensing requirements (Ct is extremely strict, many parts of the south and midwest are not) for skilled (non laborer) workers.

It will be far easier if you gave me an example of what you are comparing to. If it was built more than three years ago, the concrete costs alone would be basically half (this is a huge component in the type of structure we are discussing). If it was more than a decade ago, concrete would have been a fraction of the current cost.

 

[CL82]

You can begin with the part of the country where we are located and the comparative cost of labor. Add disparities in licensing requirements (Ct is extremely strict, many parts of the south and midwest are not) for skilled (non laborer) workers.

It will be far easier if you gave me an example of what you are comparing to. If it was built more than three years ago, the concrete costs alone would be basically half (this is a huge component in the type of structure we are discussing). If it was more than a decade ago, concrete would have been a fraction of the current cost.

Lol, this is your hypothetical, not mine. You keep on making these assertions and then asking me to help you defend them. You stated as a matter of fact that the cost would be prohibitive. What does that mean? Why do you think the state of Connecticut can’t afford it? What amount do you think is prohibitive? What amount do you think the new stadium will cost?

Really, I’m at a loss on where your head is at on this. You keep jumping around from one supposed reason why this can’t happen to the another without ever backing them up for having any basis. It’s fine if, for whatever reason, you’re opposed to building a stadium in Storrs. I’m not sure why you feel the need to fabricate reasons why it “cannot“ happen.

But, whatever.

 

[jdb50]

Sorry, I really don’t have a basis or any expertise to be able to do that. But you can look at the other posts in this thread that are based on other stadiums and get a sense of it. Or maybe Google it yourself?

Were you able to find anything about the time they tried to build a stadium on Horsebarn Hill? I didn’t remember it, but you seemed very confident that it happened and that there was considerable opposition to it that prevented it. That seems like some thing that there would be an article on memorializing it.

CL82 there was a proposal to build a Pfizer research building on the back side of Horsebarn Hill north of the paved road that goes over it and local Mansfield residents worked to shoot it down. It would have had lights etc and changed the look of the area but the actual hill that many people walk over and provides hay for the dairy cows would have been untouched. This area is still a forest and had a huge amount of ash tree dieoff due to emerald ash borer. I do not remember any stadium proposed for Horsebarn Hill. I do recall some talk of a stadium north of the water towers maybe when we were looking to move up under Lew Perkins. Remember how Georgia Tech laughed at our high school stadium when they came to Storrs. Then the whole Patriots thing happened and we wound up in East Hartford. If the new stadium would be on UConn property the locals can go pound sand IMHO.

 

[jdb50]

As to the construction cost issue in the above posts. The Rent was built so as to have the open walkway above the lower bowl as a selling point. The lastest thing. You all must have been to the Yale Bowl. Lower bowl below grade and soil fill under the upper structure with no open walk way. I always like walking through the portals. This would have to bring down some of the concrete cost. There are ways to get things done that would still result in a great stadium the size of the Rent in Storrs. Maybe the VIP indoor boxes are not needed in as great a number reducing the size of the Tower? It would be a good time to analyze the true needs of the program.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Lol, this is your hypothetical, not mine. You keep on making these assertions and then asking me to help you defend them. You stated as a matter of fact that the cost would be prohibitive. What does that mean? Why do you think the state of Connecticut can’t afford it? What amount do you think is prohibitive? What amount do you think the new stadium will cost?

Really, I’m at a loss on where your head is at on this. You keep jumping around from one supposed reason why this can’t happen to the another without ever backing them up for having any basis. It’s fine if, for whatever reason, you’re opposed to building a stadium in Storrs. I’m not sure why you feel the need to fabricate reasons why it “cannot“ happen.

But, whatever.

What is my hypothetical? You asked why it would cost so much more at UConn than other places. If I knew what other places you feel are so much more reasonable, I could provide a very good estimate of the costs to build some something similar in Storrs, excluding (as for this example it would be easier to assume no acquisition cost) land or anything beyond very minor excavation (this could also increase project costs by tens of millions of dollars). The only example I see in recent posts in this thread is a stadium built roughly the same time as Rentschler Field in Minnesota.

An educated guess, to build something that would be comparable to the Rent, on campus, with sitework beginning within the next ten months would approach $600 million, possibly a reasonable amount more depending on amenities. This estimate assumes nothing being done to address the increased parking requirements or the (substantial) traffic on campus for home football games.

As building that stadium would among pother things turn Rentschler Field into a white elephant, I would love to know how someone would present this proposal to the powers that be in the state government and in the school.

Oh, by the way,....

Connecticut News - Hartford Courant

www.courant.com

 

[CONN78SEJ]

What is my hypothetical? You asked why it would cost so much more at UConn than other places. If I knew what other places you feel are so much more reasonable, I could provide a very good estimate of the costs to build some something similar in Storrs, excluding (as for this example it would be easier to assume no acquisition cost) land or anything beyond very minor excavation (this could also increase project costs by tens of millions of dollars). The only example I see in recent posts in this thread is a stadium built roughly the same time as Rentschler Field in Minnesota.

An educated guess, to build something that would be comparable to the Rent, on campus, with sitework beginning within the next ten months would approach $600 million, possibly a reasonable amount more depending on amenities. This estimate assumes nothing being done to address the increased parking requirements or the (substantial) traffic on campus for home football games.

As building that stadium would among pother things turn Rentschler Field into a white elephant, I would love to know how someone would present this proposal to the powers that be in the state government and in the school.

Oh, by the way,....

Connecticut News - Hartford Courant

www.courant.com

Nice idea by trying to scare people into not supporting an on campus stadium by suggesting a $600 million price tag “and possibly a reasonable amount more”, plus amenities and parking. I don’t know, but either you’re crazy and stupid or you just don’t have the smarts to make a proper cost estimate.

Tell us how the Univerity of Hawaii can demolish their old 50,000 seat stadium built in 1975, AND in its place build a new one all for $420 million on the island of Oahu where construction costs for labor and materials is the highest anywhere. Consider the parallels between Connecticut and Hawaii on the costs to fix up and refurbish the old stadiums that are both in dire need of repairs vs building a new stadium.

 

[CL82]

What is my hypothetical? You asked why it would cost so much more at UConn than other places. If I knew what other places you feel are so much more reasonable, I could provide a very good estimate of the costs to build some something similar in Storrs, excluding (as for this example it would be easier to assume no acquisition cost) land or anything beyond very minor excavation (this could also increase project costs by tens of millions of dollars). The only example I see in recent posts in this thread is a stadium built roughly the same time as Rentschler Field in Minnesota.

An educated guess, to build something that would be comparable to the Rent, on campus, with sitework beginning within the next ten months would approach $600 million, possibly a reasonable amount more depending on amenities. This estimate assumes nothing being done to address the increased parking requirements or the (substantial) traffic on campus for home football games.

As building that stadium would among pother things turn Rentschler Field into a white elephant, I would love to know how someone would present this proposal to the powers that be in the state government and in the school.

Oh, by the way,....

Connecticut News - Hartford Courant

www.courant.com

Lol! It’s your hypothetical, because you are the one supposing that it would be prohibitive. If you believe it, support it, or not, it really doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. But don’t ask me to fill in the blanks in your hypothetical.

Since you’ve been reading exactly the same thread I have, you do know what the other buildings cost. I’m not going to go up and look at each post for you, but you can.

$600 million seems high given that it was higher than every other comparable facility listed in this thread. You say that is your educated guess, why do you think it is so much more expensive to build in Storrs, Connecticut?

Regarding Rentschler field, there we can find some agreement. As I have said throughout this thread as long as we have A viable building to play at in East Hartford, we are not going to build another one on campus. that said, 20 years is the useful life of a stadium according to the links above. We can extend that, but as we do so it will cease to be a quality facility. Eventually, we will end up repeating the mistakes made with the XL Center. Continually adding ill-conceived patching to facility eventually is what makes it into “a white elephant“ that is neither cost-effective nor desirable to play in. extending it an additional 10 years would seem to be as far as it could reasonably be pushed. So a decision is going to have to be made do we continue to reinvest in a facility that won’t meet her needs in a location that was foolish to begin with, or do we reinvest on campus. As a commercial real estate professional, I would think that you would know what the answer to that question is.

Not sure what you were linking to, but the link doesn’t work.

 

[Rdkid]

The Rent will probably die a slow, painful death the same way XL has. Especially if we remain in indy limbo. As the university continues to consolidate power as an institution that has grown massively in the 20 years since Rent was built, it will not lose battles to the town of Mansfield. Repair and outfit the Rent to get another 10 years out of it & see where the program has gone. If we are a viable program with a paying audience, a stadium will be built on campus. Hell, it could be smaller and nicer to accommodate a second-tier (non-professional) program when we ultimately end up without a chair in the professional college football conference wars. $63 million that buys 10 years for leadership to see what happens is nothing. UConn athletics is living via a subsidized model (as most universities are). Unless as a poster to this board and a taxpayer you are expecting free entertainment from UConn athletics, what is your quarrel with settling for renovations? No move to build anything is happening until the question is settled on what our football program is. If you build it they will come with regard to an on-campus stadium is not happening without alumni seed money of at least $100 million. We’ve never had that scratch, which is why the CDA/legislature will continue to be our slumlords.

 

[UConnJim]

San Diego St. just built a stadium in San Diego for $310 million that seats 35k and can be expanded to 55k.

If you do build an on-campus stadium, it should be part of a larger development project to upgrade the university. Either add housing, locate a university school, ...

 

[LoyalFanCT]

San Diego St. just built a stadium in San Diego for $310 million that seats 35k and can be expanded to 55k.

If you do build an on-campus stadium, it should be part of a larger development project to upgrade the university. Either add housing, locate a university school, ...

If you build it on Discovery Drive, it can include meeting/gathering space for the companies who locate their research facilities there. Would work out well for football gatherings and research activities.

 

[huskymedic]

If you build it on Discovery Drive, it can include meeting/gathering space for the companies who locate their research facilities there. Would work out well for football gatherings and research activities.

You keep talking about including research meeting space in a football stadium design - I’m curious, have you ever visited/locked @ the UConn Innovation Partnership Building on Discovery Drive?

 

[Waquoit]

As for a new on-campus stadium being “wasteful spending”, let me remind you what wasteful spending actually looks like in the State of CT...

Some highway projects didn't get finished 50 years ago so we should build a new FB stadium on-campus today? You convinced me!

 

[LoyalFanCT]

You keep talking about including research meeting space in a football stadium design - I’m curious, have you ever visited/locked @ the UConn Innovation Partnership Building on Discovery Drive?

That building is only a start. We are far from reaching an adequate level. I would point out Innovation Park at Penn State is home to Penn Stater Conference Center Hotel—a 300-room hotel with world class conference facilities. Notre Dame's Innovation Park currently offers easy meeting rooms for rent. Other collegiate-based innovation parks, that link businesses to university research, have far more extensive resources. With decent meeting space, both the football gatherings and the research initiatives can benefit.

 

[dvegas]

Yeah, that FfldCntyFan definitely has no clue re construction costs, what's he smoking? I'm sure all you geniuses have you Marshall & Swift guides to refute him

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Some highway projects didn't get finished 50 years ago so we should build a new FB stadium on-campus today? You convinced me!

Only one I can remember was Super 7, in the far western part of the state. Any others that didn’t get finished?

 

[CCSU97]

Only one I can remember was Super 7, in the far western part of the state. Any others that didn’t get finished?

US-7 Norwalk to Danbury
US-6 (I-84/384) Manchester to Providence
I-291 Rocky Hill to Windsor (Hartford Bypass West)
(I-484) Whitehead Highway
CT-34 New Haven to West Haven
CT-2A (Circumferential around Norwich)
CT-11 Colchester to Waterford

 

[CCSU97]

Central is FCS. "UPGRADE" for that program is getting into the Colonial, where they should be, and maybe expanding their current stadium to 10k. Central is not an athletics school. It will never be an FBS school and has no interest in doing so.

The state also owns close to 1000 undeveloped acres east of route 9 that would be ideal for a new stadium if the situation ever arose. Again, there is no way CCSU taking on the Rent makes any sense to anyone with ties to the university.

Agreed with everything here. A "realistic" upgrade for CCSU is simply playing in a football league alongside URI, Maine, and UNH in moderately improved on-campus field. Basically most fans would be ecstatic with an Arute Field upgrade to about 8-10k that looks something like UConn's Morrone Stadium - that's it. However, even these very moderate dreams are unlikely to come to fruition anytime soon.

FYI - My understanding is the property CCSU/State owns in Newington across Route 9 and alongside the Busway (once proposed East Campus) is basically unbuildable. Environmental issues and challenges connecting it to the rest of campus means it will likely stay unimproved for decades to come. There were concepts/proposals for a new arena to replace Detrick and some campus housing, but the University and State were unable to get the necessary funding and approvals.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Agreed with everything here. A "realistic" upgrade for CCSU is simply playing in a football league alongside URI, Maine, and UNH in moderately improved on-campus field. Basically most fans would be ecstatic with an Arute Field upgrade to about 8-10k that looks something like UConn's Morrone Stadium - that's it. However, even these very moderate dreams are unlikely to come to fruition anytime soon.

FYI - My understanding is the property CCSU/State owns in Newington across Route 9 and alongside the Busway (once proposed East Campus) is basically unbuildable. Environmental issues and challenges connecting it to the rest of campus means it will likely stay unimproved for decades to come. There were concepts/proposals for a new arena to replace Detrick and some campus housing, but the University and State were unable to get the necessary funding and approvals.

Then if UConn gets an on campus stadium what does the state do with the Rent? Neighbors there do not want concerts. Who is going to use it. Tearing it down sends a horrible impression to taxpayers. It is close to Central. Even if the seats are not filled, if Central goes into the Colonial, it deserves a decent stadium.

 

[huskymedic]

Then if UConn gets an on campus stadium what does the state do with the Rent? Neighbors there do not want concerts. Who is going to use it. Tearing it down sends a horrible impression to taxpayers.

They will likely dump the land in a New York minute and East Hartford will get even more new tax revenue w/ the planned East Hartford Logistics & Technology Park at Rentschler Field.

Journal Inquirer

The latest news from Manchester, Connecticut, as well as coverage of Enfield, Vernon, South Windsor, East Hartford and beyond.

www.journalinquirer.com

Journal Inquirer

The latest news from Manchester, Connecticut, as well as coverage of Enfield, Vernon, South Windsor, East Hartford and beyond.

www.journalinquirer.com