Early January All-American Considerations

[DefenseBB]

If you are taking Boston off this list you need to move Zia Cooke onto it. Teams are literally triple teaming Boston to the point of being ridiculous and Zia is taking advantage of it. If SC remains the #1 team in the country one of those will be on it.

I am curious what the rest of the SC faithful on this forum think about whether Boston is worthy of AA accolades. For example, while Haley Jones is not having nearly as good a statistical shooting year, many of the Cardinal still tout her as the leader of that team (hard to disagree as she does lead them in points per game and does rebound and dish assists), so I am curious is the Gamecock acolytes feel similar that Boston is the dominant leader of this elite team or if the leadership is shared among many.

 

[TC22]

I am curious what the rest of the SC faithful on this forum think about whether Boston is worthy of AA accolades. For example, while Haley Jones is not having nearly as good a statistical shooting year, many of the Cardinal still tout her as the leader of that team (hard to disagree as she does lead them in points per game and does rebound and dish assists), so I am curious is the Gamecock acolytes feel similar that Boston is the dominant leader of this elite team or if the leadership is shared among many.

I do. There aren't many players that get triple teamed night in and night out. It's crazy. The opposing coaches have determined, to beat Carolina you MUST stop Boston. Well, Boston had 4 points in last game. We won by 17. You can shove that Boston theory...lo Eventually teams are going to figure out Aliyah isn't our only player and if they want to win they are going to have to play defense on the other players on our team. Zia and Brea are hitting almost 40% from there. I know people are just trying to win any way they can, but imagine if Angel Reese or Cameron Brink or whoever got triple teamed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Their stats wouldn't be the same either. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. SD State did it, TAMU did it, and Georgia did it. We beat SDSU and Georgia by under 20 and TAMU by 42, but Aliyah didn't get her DD. I guess that's the goal.

 

[bballnut90]

I do. There aren't many players that get triple teamed night in and night out. It's crazy. The opposing coaches have determined, to beat Carolina you MUST stop Boston. Well, Boston had 4 points in last game. We won by 17. You can shove that Boston theory...lo Eventually teams are going to figure out Aliyah isn't our only player and if they want to win they are going to have to play defense on the other players on our team. Zia and Brea are hitting almost 40% from there. I know people are just trying to win any way they can, but imagine if Angel Reese or Cameron Brink or whoever got triple teamed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Their stats wouldn't be the same either. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. SD State did it, TAMU did it, and Georgia did it. We beat SDSU and Georgia by under 20 and TAMU by 42, but Aliyah didn't get her DD. I guess that's the goal.

Agree about Boston. People are over blowing one mediocre game vs Georgia. If she continues to struggle then she gets dropped but as it is right now she’s come up huge in big games and is still SC’s clear cut best player. Cooke isn’t deserving of a spot IMO. She’s shooting better as of late against weaker teams and defends well but doesn’t impact the game in a big way besides taking a lot of shots. I’d still keep Boston on first or second team.

 

[TC22]

Agree about Boston. People are over blowing one mediocre game vs Georgia. If she continues to struggle then she gets dropped but as it is right now she’s come up huge in big games and is still SC’s clear cut best player. Cooke isn’t deserving of a spot IMO. She’s shooting better as of late against weaker teams and defends well but doesn’t impact the game in a big way besides taking a lot of shots. I’d still keep Boston on first or second team.

Zia is averaging 19 ppg. She takes a lot of shots? LOL…See just about every player that scores a bunch of points. She shot 13 free throws last night. She got to the FT line 7 times, so that’s 7 times she shot and was fouled. I’d say drawing 7 fouls is impactful. Double figures against Stanford, MD, SDSU, UCLA, Clemson, etc. She’s our leading scorer. Against weaker teams she’s not even playing 1/2 the game. For right now Zia is playing Great.

 

[nwhoopfan]

hard to disagree as she does lead them in points per game

She was third behind Brink and Jump last time I looked.

 

[DefenseBB]

She was third behind Brink and Jump last time I looked.

Really? Look again…2022 23 Stanford Women's Basketball Combined Statistics (PDF) - Stanford University Athletics

 

[bballnut90]

Zia is averaging 19 ppg. She takes a lot of shots? LOL…See just about every player that scores a bunch of points. She shot 13 free throws last night. She got to the FT line 7 times, so that’s 7 times she shot and was fouled. I’d say drawing 7 fouls is impactful. Double figures against Stanford, MD, SDSU, UCLA, Clemson, etc. She’s our leading scorer. Against weaker teams she’s not even playing 1/2 the game. For right now Zia is playing Great.

She's averaging 15.3 points per game, not 19. She got to the line a lot last night and had her best game of the season after a slow start early. Outside of that game, she's only getting to the line 3 times per game. Drawing fouls isn't normal a big staple of her game.

And her double figure scoring in the games vs ranked teams is a product of taking a large number of shots and shooting at an inefficient clip rather than quality play. Vs. Stanford she was 3-13 from the field, vs Maryland she was 4-14, and vs. UCLA she was 5-19. To be frank, those are terrible shooting numbers (26% FG), especially for a player averaging 15+ shots in those games. She has shot the ball much better as of late and maybe she's turned a tide, but overall on the year I don't think she deserves to be in the mix for All America honors.

 

[GoChips20]

She's averaging 15.3 points per game, not 19. She got to the line a lot last night and had her best game of the season after a slow start early. Outside of that game, she's only getting to the line 3 times per game. Drawing fouls isn't normal a big staple of her game.

And her double figure scoring in the games vs ranked teams is a product of taking a large number of shots and shooting at an inefficient clip rather than quality play. Vs. Stanford she was 3-13 from the field, vs Maryland she was 4-14, and vs. UCLA she was 5-19. To be frank, those are terrible shooting numbers (26% FG), especially for a player

Zia’s yet to turn in a full season shooting above 40% from the floor. I used to think it was a result of poor shot selection rather than shooting ability but having watched more closely, I don’t think the mechanics of her shot look great. Her three-point shooting in particular looks rough.

This has been her best season yet so perhaps she’s truly improved, but as far as 2-players on elite teams in the country go, she’s not at the top of the list.

I will say this - for a SC program that has occasionally struggled to manufacture points, Zia can go get them. It’s not always efficient or pretty, but sometimes production matters more than anything else and she’s been excellent in that respect.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Really? Look again…2022 23 Stanford Women's Basketball Combined Statistics (PDF) - Stanford University Athletics

Well, "last time I looked" was a true statement. It obviously changed, maybe just since the last game.

 

[dabears17]

Through 16 games: Jump averaging 13.1 ppg, Brink 13.2 ppg, and Jones 13.3 ppg.

Basically they are tied. 209, 211, 212 points total for season.

Jones had 18, Brink 12, Jump 13 last game.

 

[Dillon77]

Through 16 games: Jump averaging 13.1 ppg, Brink 13.2 ppg, and Jones 13.3 ppg.

Basically they are tied. 209, 211, 212 points total for season.

Jones had 18, Brink 12, Jump 13 last game.

Now, that's what I'd love to see (if I were a coach): balanced scoring.

BTW, while I'm not nominating her for All-American consideration quite yet, Kiki Iriafen is having a solid season as a starter. Most certainly could improve that FT %, but is developing nicely throughout the season.

 

[DefenseBB]

So while trying to find some advanced metrics like Winshares, I did come across “herhoopstats” as both @darkstar1 and our favorite recruiting sleuth @Sluconn Husky noted in their comments. The cost to join for the year is $50 so not exorbitant and for a stats feel like me, might be worthwhile to help shed further light on our topics.
So here’s my question for all of you, has anyone subscribed to this service and does it offer good value?
Let me know either in this thread or via private chat.
Thanks

 

[The deacon]

Zia is averaging 19 ppg. She takes a lot of shots? LOL…See just about every player that scores a bunch of points. She shot 13 free throws last night. She got to the FT line 7 times, so that’s 7 times she shot and was fouled. I’d say drawing 7 fouls is impactful. Double figures against Stanford, MD, SDSU, UCLA, Clemson, etc. She’s our leading scorer. Against weaker teams she’s not even playing 1/2 the game. For right now Zia is playing Great.

Slightly revisionist stats, TC22. Zia's averaging 15.3, not 19 ppg, and at 41.8 shooting. That's not All-American caliber, considering she averages just 2.2 assists and 1.4 rebounds.

Sorry, I just noticed ballnut90 had this covered above...

 

[MilfordHusky]

25/20r against Oregon State
19/16 vs Arkansas
21/17 vs Vandy

Those aren't cupcakes.

I'm not sure about Vandy. I think Reese will continue to put up big numbers. Her production per minute may decline, but her minutes should increase.

 

[DefenseBB]

As I noted when I posted this "EARLY" list, we still have a conference season of play to go before the ballots are cast but I would give a not so subtle reminder that one of the dominant top teams in the country will have to have at least one player on the AA team be it Boston, Cooke or both. It only makes sense as those two drive that team (along with Dawn!). I do think the SEC Player of the Year has a clear leader right now in Angel Reese that the LSU-SC matchup will be much anticipated in many facets. That game will be Sunday, Feb 12 at 2 PM on ESPN and in Colonial Life Stadium with 14,000+ Gamecock supporters....

 

[The deacon]

As I noted when I posted this "EARLY" list, we still have a conference season of play to go before the ballots are cast but I would give a not so subtle reminder that one of the dominant top teams in the country will have to have at least one player on the AA team be it Boston, Cooke or both. It only makes sense as those two drive that team (along with Dawn!). I do think the SEC Player of the Year has a clear leader right now in Angel Reese that the LSU-SC matchup will be much anticipated in many facets. That game will be Sunday, Feb 12 at 2 PM on ESPN and in Colonial Life Stadium with 14,000+ Gamecock supporters....

... seven days after Aliyah, Zia and co. play the Huskies at the XL Center.

Like it or not, DefenseBB, you're almost certainly right that one of those two Gamecocks will be on the A-A team, regardless of numbers or anyone else's thoughts. It's just hard to imagine that's the best way to document the best performances for the season by the best players. At this point, there are dozens of players who have performed better than both of them.

 

[Bone Dog]

... seven days after Aliyah, Zia and co. play the Huskies at the XL Center.

Like it or not, DefenseBB, you're almost certainly right that one of those two Gamecocks will be on the A-A team, regardless of numbers or anyone else's thoughts. It's just hard to imagine that's the best way to document the best performances for the season by the best players. At this point, there are dozens of players who have performed better than both of them.

I think there's very good reason to expect to find a first team AA (maybe more than one) on SC, which is arguably the best team in D1 right now. It's not just an unthinking prejudice. And if we seriously doubt that there's even one, and SC goes on to win the NC, then Dawn will have proved to be the one of the greatest coaches in the history of WCBB, to have built this juggernaut with no AA-level talent on it. No slight to Dawn -- she is a great coach already -- but this alternative conclusion seems much less reasonable. SC didn't get to be this good with no AAs on it. Of course, the real oddity is that Geno managed to get UConn to the NC game last year with no AAs on it. But we already knew he's the greatest coach of all time.

 

[The deacon]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

 

[TC22]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

Aliyah’s stats are down some because she’s not playing as much, mainly because of the schedule. She’s certainly not a worse player this year than she was last year. The difference is the emergence of Kamilla, along with the play of our other bigs. Kamilla and Aliyah are playing together a lot and when that happens AB moves out to the top of the key so gives up a lot of points and rebounds to Kamilla.

We may not win another championship this year but this team is better than last year. The difference is experience and there’s just waves of players who come in and do their thing with little or no drop-off in production. There’s a lot of season left to play and we will see how things unfold. As a season ticket holder for many years I have watched this program grow. There’s no one player that’s going to blow you away this year, but collectively they just keep up steady defensive pressure and offensively seem to be figuring things out.

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

 

[Bone Dog]

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

She is totally a gamer! A solid, reliable contributor with some awesome games too. I don't think she's exactly AA caliber, but any coach would be happy to have her on her team.

 

[tigers4ever]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

"""Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?"""

This year, I think this is exactly what it is.

 

[The deacon]

Aliyah’s stats are down some because she’s not playing as much, mainly because of the schedule. She’s certainly not a worse player this year than she was last year. The difference is the emergence of Kamilla, along with the play of our other bigs. Kamilla and Aliyah are playing together a lot and when that happens AB moves out to the top of the key so gives up a lot of points and rebounds to Kamilla.

We may not win another championship this year but this team is better than last year. The difference is experience and there’s just waves of players who come in and do their thing with little or no drop-off in production. There’s a lot of season left to play and we will see how things unfold. As a season ticket holder for many years I have watched this program grow. There’s no one player that’s going to blow you away this year, but collectively they just keep up steady defensive pressure and offensively seem to be figuring things out.

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

Well said, TC22, better than how I was trying to explain the Gamecocks this season. It might not be the fault of Aliyah, but the depth of the team and growth of others have combined to lessen her role.

 

[TC22]

She is totally a gamer! A solid, reliable contributor with some awesome games too. I don't think she's exactly AA caliber, but any coach would be happy to have her on her team.

Maybe not, but we will see. Lot of season left. We have some games coming up where we will be tested. Anxious to see how we have grown.

 

[bballnut90]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

I feel like if SC goes undefeated or at the very least goes wire to wire as #1 they I'll be shocked if they don't get someone on 1st team. Team success matters a lot in these awards and historically I don't think there's ever been a team that didn't get a first team recipient when they've gone undefeated or #1 wire to wire. SC should (and likely will) reap the benefit of it, and there's no question that it'd be Aliyah Boston over Cooke at this juncture.

 

[bballnut90]

I think there's very good reason to expect to find a first team AA (maybe more than one) on SC, which is arguably the best team in D1 right now. It's not just an unthinking prejudice. And if we seriously doubt that there's even one, and SC goes on to win the NC, then Dawn will have proved to be the one of the greatest coaches in the history of WCBB, to have built this juggernaut with no AA-level talent on it. No slight to Dawn -- she is a great coach already -- but this alternative conclusion seems much less reasonable. SC didn't get to be this good with no AAs on it. Of course, the real oddity is that Geno managed to get UConn to the NC game last year with no AAs on it. But we already knew he's the greatest coach of all time.

His starting included three former #1 overall recruits, a former top 5 senior in Nelson-Ododa, and Aaliyah Edwards. Wasn't exactly an oddity with that much talent stacked.