Early January All-American Considerations

[DefenseBB]

She was third behind Brink and Jump last time I looked.

Really? Look again…2022 23 Stanford Women's Basketball Combined Statistics (PDF) - Stanford University Athletics

 

[bballnut90]

Zia is averaging 19 ppg. She takes a lot of shots? LOL…See just about every player that scores a bunch of points. She shot 13 free throws last night. She got to the FT line 7 times, so that’s 7 times she shot and was fouled. I’d say drawing 7 fouls is impactful. Double figures against Stanford, MD, SDSU, UCLA, Clemson, etc. She’s our leading scorer. Against weaker teams she’s not even playing 1/2 the game. For right now Zia is playing Great.

She's averaging 15.3 points per game, not 19. She got to the line a lot last night and had her best game of the season after a slow start early. Outside of that game, she's only getting to the line 3 times per game. Drawing fouls isn't normal a big staple of her game.

And her double figure scoring in the games vs ranked teams is a product of taking a large number of shots and shooting at an inefficient clip rather than quality play. Vs. Stanford she was 3-13 from the field, vs Maryland she was 4-14, and vs. UCLA she was 5-19. To be frank, those are terrible shooting numbers (26% FG), especially for a player averaging 15+ shots in those games. She has shot the ball much better as of late and maybe she's turned a tide, but overall on the year I don't think she deserves to be in the mix for All America honors.

 

[GoChips20]

She's averaging 15.3 points per game, not 19. She got to the line a lot last night and had her best game of the season after a slow start early. Outside of that game, she's only getting to the line 3 times per game. Drawing fouls isn't normal a big staple of her game.

And her double figure scoring in the games vs ranked teams is a product of taking a large number of shots and shooting at an inefficient clip rather than quality play. Vs. Stanford she was 3-13 from the field, vs Maryland she was 4-14, and vs. UCLA she was 5-19. To be frank, those are terrible shooting numbers (26% FG), especially for a player

Zia’s yet to turn in a full season shooting above 40% from the floor. I used to think it was a result of poor shot selection rather than shooting ability but having watched more closely, I don’t think the mechanics of her shot look great. Her three-point shooting in particular looks rough.

This has been her best season yet so perhaps she’s truly improved, but as far as 2-players on elite teams in the country go, she’s not at the top of the list.

I will say this - for a SC program that has occasionally struggled to manufacture points, Zia can go get them. It’s not always efficient or pretty, but sometimes production matters more than anything else and she’s been excellent in that respect.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Really? Look again…2022 23 Stanford Women's Basketball Combined Statistics (PDF) - Stanford University Athletics

Well, "last time I looked" was a true statement. It obviously changed, maybe just since the last game.

 

[dabears17]

Through 16 games: Jump averaging 13.1 ppg, Brink 13.2 ppg, and Jones 13.3 ppg.

Basically they are tied. 209, 211, 212 points total for season.

Jones had 18, Brink 12, Jump 13 last game.

 

[Dillon77]

Through 16 games: Jump averaging 13.1 ppg, Brink 13.2 ppg, and Jones 13.3 ppg.

Basically they are tied. 209, 211, 212 points total for season.

Jones had 18, Brink 12, Jump 13 last game.

Now, that's what I'd love to see (if I were a coach): balanced scoring.

BTW, while I'm not nominating her for All-American consideration quite yet, Kiki Iriafen is having a solid season as a starter. Most certainly could improve that FT %, but is developing nicely throughout the season.

 

[DefenseBB]

So while trying to find some advanced metrics like Winshares, I did come across “herhoopstats” as both @darkstar1 and our favorite recruiting sleuth @Sluconn Husky noted in their comments. The cost to join for the year is $50 so not exorbitant and for a stats feel like me, might be worthwhile to help shed further light on our topics.
So here’s my question for all of you, has anyone subscribed to this service and does it offer good value?
Let me know either in this thread or via private chat.
Thanks

 

[The deacon]

Zia is averaging 19 ppg. She takes a lot of shots? LOL…See just about every player that scores a bunch of points. She shot 13 free throws last night. She got to the FT line 7 times, so that’s 7 times she shot and was fouled. I’d say drawing 7 fouls is impactful. Double figures against Stanford, MD, SDSU, UCLA, Clemson, etc. She’s our leading scorer. Against weaker teams she’s not even playing 1/2 the game. For right now Zia is playing Great.

Slightly revisionist stats, TC22. Zia's averaging 15.3, not 19 ppg, and at 41.8 shooting. That's not All-American caliber, considering she averages just 2.2 assists and 1.4 rebounds.

Sorry, I just noticed ballnut90 had this covered above...

 

[MilfordHusky]

25/20r against Oregon State
19/16 vs Arkansas
21/17 vs Vandy

Those aren't cupcakes.

I'm not sure about Vandy. I think Reese will continue to put up big numbers. Her production per minute may decline, but her minutes should increase.

 

[DefenseBB]

As I noted when I posted this "EARLY" list, we still have a conference season of play to go before the ballots are cast but I would give a not so subtle reminder that one of the dominant top teams in the country will have to have at least one player on the AA team be it Boston, Cooke or both. It only makes sense as those two drive that team (along with Dawn!). I do think the SEC Player of the Year has a clear leader right now in Angel Reese that the LSU-SC matchup will be much anticipated in many facets. That game will be Sunday, Feb 12 at 2 PM on ESPN and in Colonial Life Stadium with 14,000+ Gamecock supporters....

 

[The deacon]

As I noted when I posted this "EARLY" list, we still have a conference season of play to go before the ballots are cast but I would give a not so subtle reminder that one of the dominant top teams in the country will have to have at least one player on the AA team be it Boston, Cooke or both. It only makes sense as those two drive that team (along with Dawn!). I do think the SEC Player of the Year has a clear leader right now in Angel Reese that the LSU-SC matchup will be much anticipated in many facets. That game will be Sunday, Feb 12 at 2 PM on ESPN and in Colonial Life Stadium with 14,000+ Gamecock supporters....

... seven days after Aliyah, Zia and co. play the Huskies at the XL Center.

Like it or not, DefenseBB, you're almost certainly right that one of those two Gamecocks will be on the A-A team, regardless of numbers or anyone else's thoughts. It's just hard to imagine that's the best way to document the best performances for the season by the best players. At this point, there are dozens of players who have performed better than both of them.

 

[Bone Dog]

... seven days after Aliyah, Zia and co. play the Huskies at the XL Center.

Like it or not, DefenseBB, you're almost certainly right that one of those two Gamecocks will be on the A-A team, regardless of numbers or anyone else's thoughts. It's just hard to imagine that's the best way to document the best performances for the season by the best players. At this point, there are dozens of players who have performed better than both of them.

I think there's very good reason to expect to find a first team AA (maybe more than one) on SC, which is arguably the best team in D1 right now. It's not just an unthinking prejudice. And if we seriously doubt that there's even one, and SC goes on to win the NC, then Dawn will have proved to be the one of the greatest coaches in the history of WCBB, to have built this juggernaut with no AA-level talent on it. No slight to Dawn -- she is a great coach already -- but this alternative conclusion seems much less reasonable. SC didn't get to be this good with no AAs on it. Of course, the real oddity is that Geno managed to get UConn to the NC game last year with no AAs on it. But we already knew he's the greatest coach of all time.

 

[The deacon]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

 

[TC22]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

Aliyah’s stats are down some because she’s not playing as much, mainly because of the schedule. She’s certainly not a worse player this year than she was last year. The difference is the emergence of Kamilla, along with the play of our other bigs. Kamilla and Aliyah are playing together a lot and when that happens AB moves out to the top of the key so gives up a lot of points and rebounds to Kamilla.

We may not win another championship this year but this team is better than last year. The difference is experience and there’s just waves of players who come in and do their thing with little or no drop-off in production. There’s a lot of season left to play and we will see how things unfold. As a season ticket holder for many years I have watched this program grow. There’s no one player that’s going to blow you away this year, but collectively they just keep up steady defensive pressure and offensively seem to be figuring things out.

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

 

[Bone Dog]

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

She is totally a gamer! A solid, reliable contributor with some awesome games too. I don't think she's exactly AA caliber, but any coach would be happy to have her on her team.

 

[tigers4ever]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

"""Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?"""

This year, I think this is exactly what it is.

 

[The deacon]

Aliyah’s stats are down some because she’s not playing as much, mainly because of the schedule. She’s certainly not a worse player this year than she was last year. The difference is the emergence of Kamilla, along with the play of our other bigs. Kamilla and Aliyah are playing together a lot and when that happens AB moves out to the top of the key so gives up a lot of points and rebounds to Kamilla.

We may not win another championship this year but this team is better than last year. The difference is experience and there’s just waves of players who come in and do their thing with little or no drop-off in production. There’s a lot of season left to play and we will see how things unfold. As a season ticket holder for many years I have watched this program grow. There’s no one player that’s going to blow you away this year, but collectively they just keep up steady defensive pressure and offensively seem to be figuring things out.

Say what you will about Zia, but she is a gamer.

Well said, TC22, better than how I was trying to explain the Gamecocks this season. It might not be the fault of Aliyah, but the depth of the team and growth of others have combined to lessen her role.

 

[TC22]

She is totally a gamer! A solid, reliable contributor with some awesome games too. I don't think she's exactly AA caliber, but any coach would be happy to have her on her team.

Maybe not, but we will see. Lot of season left. We have some games coming up where we will be tested. Anxious to see how we have grown.

 

[bballnut90]

I'd agree, Bone Dog, but it's just hard to lobby for a player, whether it's because of triple-teaming or otherwise, who's 1 of 6 from the floor and gets five rebounds in 30 minutes in the Gamecocks' recent game vs. Georgia... she did manage 13 and 9 in 27 minutes in a later blowout of Auburn. Aliyah's season stats are well down from last year, too.

Ostensibly, that leaves it to Zia Cooke, whose stats are not A-A caliber either.

Could it be simply that Dawn is a great coach (and recruiter), that she has a fleet of bigs who dominate the opposition even when Boston's not doing it, and the team's defense and depth are so good that nobody's yet cracked the code?

I just look at the depth of quality players who wear down each opponent: Amihere, Cardoso, Saxton, Beal, Fletcher, Hall, Feagin... maybe South Carolina could be that team that is the best in the country without a first-team All-American? There's a lot of season to come, and a lot of big games. We'll see.

I feel like if SC goes undefeated or at the very least goes wire to wire as #1 they I'll be shocked if they don't get someone on 1st team. Team success matters a lot in these awards and historically I don't think there's ever been a team that didn't get a first team recipient when they've gone undefeated or #1 wire to wire. SC should (and likely will) reap the benefit of it, and there's no question that it'd be Aliyah Boston over Cooke at this juncture.

 

[bballnut90]

I think there's very good reason to expect to find a first team AA (maybe more than one) on SC, which is arguably the best team in D1 right now. It's not just an unthinking prejudice. And if we seriously doubt that there's even one, and SC goes on to win the NC, then Dawn will have proved to be the one of the greatest coaches in the history of WCBB, to have built this juggernaut with no AA-level talent on it. No slight to Dawn -- she is a great coach already -- but this alternative conclusion seems much less reasonable. SC didn't get to be this good with no AAs on it. Of course, the real oddity is that Geno managed to get UConn to the NC game last year with no AAs on it. But we already knew he's the greatest coach of all time.

His starting included three former #1 overall recruits, a former top 5 senior in Nelson-Ododa, and Aaliyah Edwards. Wasn't exactly an oddity with that much talent stacked.

 

[Bone Dog]

His starting included three former #1 overall recruits, a former top 5 senior in Nelson-Ododa, and Aaliyah Edwards. Wasn't exactly an oddity with that much talent stacked.

I agree, sort of: that team was loaded with highly rated talent. But AA voting is a more current rating than what kids did in high school. Don't get me wrong -- I loved that team, with all its flaws and how wracked with injuries it was that season. The Huskies have been such a strange mix of great blessings and curses the last few years. They were a #2 seed in the tournament, which means they were not favored to win by the so-called experts. Yet they prevailed against two #1 seeds in a row after having been widely dismissed. Heck, they were widely expected to lose to Indiana.

 

[bballnut90]

I agree, sort of: that team was loaded with highly rated talent. But AA voting is a more current rating than what kids did in high school. Don't get me wrong -- I loved that team, with all its flaws and how wracked with injuries it was that season. The Huskies have been such a strange mix of great blessings and curses the last few years. They were a #2 seed in the tournament, which means they were not favored to win by the so-called experts. Yet they prevailed against two #1 seeds in a row after having been widely dismissed. Heck, they were widely expected to lose to Indiana.

Agree with part of it. Last year was a mess with injuries, but by and large the major contributors were healthy come tournament time. Bueckers didn't make an AA team last year due to missing most of the year, but she was surely one of the top players in the country come tournament time even if she wasn't on award lists.

In regards to the last part, seeds are based on what a team has accomplished leading up to the NCAA tournament, not an indication of how people predict they will do. So while being a 2 seed usually means the 1 seed is expected to beat you, this isn't always the case, and it was not the case last year.

Looking at the regional matchups, UCONN was not widely expected to lose to Indiana. They were a heavy betting favorite to win (link) and 4/5 ESPN experts thought they'd win that game (link).

They were also favored to beat #1 seed NC State (link), I couldn't find an article with ESPN experts making predictions, but no one was surprised UCONN won that game. When the bracket came out and matchups revealed UCONN was staying in Connecticut and had NC State as their 1 seed, I don't thought it'd be a big upset if UCONN made it out of that regional. I will give you the Stanford game was an upset, all 4 ESPN experts picked Stanford to win (link) though the betting line only had Stanford as a 1.5 point favorite.

Getting to the title game was a great accomplishment after a very rocky season, but I wouldn't classify UCONN getting there as an oddity, and to play the underdog card and state that UCONN didn't have any All Americans on their path to the title game is missing context.

 

[Bone Dog]

Like you, I agree… mostly. It may be a matter of who we listened to leading up to the tournament. There’s also two separate arguments layered across one another: was UConn favored, and was Paige an AA? I think you agree with me that they weren’t favored to win it all or even to get past Stanford.

At the start of the tournament, I think UConn wasn’t favored to get past NC St. That’s what being a #2 seed literally means. But there were also lots of believers out there, and many who wanted to read the placement of the regional in Hartford as a sort of sign.

After the UCF game, however, some of that confidence was shaken. We scraped out a close win in a game that exposed again the outside shooting woes that had plagued us at our low points in the season. This is why some experts, including Gabe and Kristi and the staff at HerHoopStats picked Indiana in the Sweet Sixteen. They were not alone.

In any event, I think you have a case for thinking we were some sort of favorites in that region. But I don’t think it’s absolute. There’s room to disagree.

The same is true for your remarks about Paige:

Bueckers didn't make an AA team last year due to missing most of the year, but she was surely one of the top players in the country come tournament time even if she wasn't on award lists.

Yes, this is clearly true. But there’s more. Paige didn’t just miss a lot of games. She was also a clearly depleted player when she returned, with minutes restrictions, and often limping off the floor during games only to return later.

Prior to the Elite Eight game, she was primarily an inspirational player, and didn’t have to simply carry the team. She played really well against Indiana, but others played well too. Against NC St and Stanford, she revealed once again the Paige of her freshman year, the one who put the team on her shoulders and beat Tennessee and SCar that year with late game heroics. That was “peak” Paige. And she limped off the court at times, too.

But that Paige, the one who would play through injury and pain to win, needed great games from Liv and Aaliyah and Evina and Christyn and even Azzi to win those games, and she inspired them to play that way. Two years earlier, she engineered the two wins I mentioned even with not-so-great games from the others. She had a bum ankle then, but freshman Paige was not as depleted as sophomore Paige.

Was she AA caliber at that time? I’d say yes, but it would be a sentimental judgment. Yes, she hadn’t played enough games to really register her sustained excellence. But she was also clearly the MVP on a team she carried to the NC game. And it was heart warming to watch her, and inspirational too.

But finally, it wasn’t surprising at least in hindsight, that a depleted Paige couldn’t carry the team over the last challenge. For the second time, she wasn’t quite enough to get us all the way when her team couldn’t support her. In the first season it seemed to be youth and inexperience that undid the others, in the second it may have been injury and illness.

Every time Paige steps onto a basketball court, she is an AA in spirit. But she isn’t always able to bring her broken body along. This is why we all long to see the healthy season — just to see the full resplendent glory of who Paige really is.

seeds are based on what a team has accomplished leading up to the NCAA tournament, not an indication of how people predict they will do. So while being a 2 seed usually means the 1 seed is expected to beat you, this isn't always the case, and it was not the case last year.

I forget exactly why I included this quotation. I guess I think seeds are really both things — they’re earned by prior accomplishments in the regular season, NET, etc., but also express some expectation of what will make for the beast matchups. You’re right to say they’re not predictions, and also to concede that they express what is widely expected. In this, I think we agree.

Sorry for the long post. You gave me a lot to think about.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I view Zia Cooke as a prototypical utility player, not dissimilar to Lexie Hull for our team the past few seasons. Lexie's stats were always underwhelming relative to all the little things she did to contribute that don't show up in the stay sheet. And on offense, there truly is nothing Cooke can't do - shake and bake, step back, drive to the rim, shoot from outside, etc. And she's endlessly energetic on defense. And Lexie was never an A-A. But she was damn good and a player any team would be lucky to have. The same is true for Zia.

And I'll wear a U$C hat to every Stanford game next season if Boston isn't a first team A-A at seasons end. It irks me that she gets favorable treatment from the refs, but there is absolutely no question she is among the five best players in WCBB.

 

[The deacon]

Like you, I agree… mostly. It may be a matter of who we listened to leading up to the tournament. There’s also two separate arguments layered across one another: was UConn favored, and was Paige an AA? I think you agree with me that they weren’t favored to win it all or even to get past Stanford.

At the start of the tournament, I think UConn wasn’t favored to get past NC St. That’s what being a #2 seed literally means. But there were also lots of believers out there, and many who wanted to read the placement of the regional in Hartford as a sort of sign.

After the UCF game, however, some of that confidence was shaken. We scraped out a close win in a game that exposed again the outside shooting woes that had plagued us at our low points in the season. This is why some experts, including Gabe and Kristi and the staff at HerHoopStats picked Indiana in the Sweet Sixteen. They were not alone.

In any event, I think you have a case for thinking we were some sort of favorites in that region. But I don’t think it’s absolute. There’s room to disagree.

The same is true for your remarks about Paige:


Yes, this is clearly true. But there’s more. Paige didn’t just miss a lot of games. She was also a clearly depleted player when she returned, with minutes restrictions, and often limping off the floor during games only to return later.

Prior to the Elite Eight game, she was primarily an inspirational player, and didn’t have to simply carry the team. She played really well against Indiana, but others played well too. Against NC St and Stanford, she revealed once again the Paige of her freshman year, the one who put the team on her shoulders and beat Tennessee and SCar that year with late game heroics. That was “peak” Paige. And she limped off the court at times, too.

But that Paige, the one who would play through injury and pain to win, needed great games from Liv and Aaliyah and Evina and Christyn and even Azzi to win those games, and she inspired them to play that way. Two years earlier, she engineered the two wins I mentioned even with not-so-great games from the others. She had a bum ankle then, but freshman Paige was not as depleted as sophomore Paige.

Was she AA caliber at that time? I’d say yes, but it would be a sentimental judgment. Yes, she hadn’t played enough games to really register her sustained excellence. But she was also clearly the MVP on a team she carried to the NC game. And it was heart warming to watch her, and inspirational too.

But finally, it wasn’t surprising at least in hindsight, that a depleted Paige couldn’t carry the team over the last challenge. For the second time, she wasn’t quite enough to get us all the way when her team couldn’t support her. In the first season it seemed to be youth and inexperience that undid the others, in the second it may have been injury and illness.

Every time Paige steps onto a basketball court, she is an AA in spirit. But she isn’t always able to bring her broken body along. This is why we all long to see the healthy season — just to see the full resplendent glory of who Paige really is.


I forget exactly why I included this quotation. I guess I think seeds are really both things — they’re earned by prior accomplishments in the regular season, NET, etc., but also express some expectation of what will make for the beast matchups. You’re right to say they’re not predictions, and also to concede that they express what is widely expected. In this, I think we agree.

Sorry for the long post. You gave me a lot to think about.

Your overall point about how Paige might have inspired good play by teammates vs. NC State and Stanford carries weight, but it's hyperbole to say that Evina, Olivia and Christyn played 'great' in those games. Evina and Liv did have their moments. However, Christyn, who said all year she was the player upon whose shoulders the Huskies could ride, shot a combined 12 of 35 in those two games. In more than 81 minutes of court time in those games, she had all of two assists and seven rebounds... and it got worse for Christyn in the final vs. South Carolina.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

If you are taking Boston off this list you need to move Zia Cooke onto it. Teams are literally triple teaming Boston to the point of being ridiculous and Zia is taking advantage of it. If SC remains the #1 team in the country one of those will be on it.

If they're triple-teaming Boston, then who is guarding Cooke? Boston is an AA. I don't care what numbers she has. Cooke is not a 1st team AA, IMO. If I'm at the park playing pickup and all these folks are available...I pick Boston 1st...no question.

 

[The deacon]

I view Zia Cooke as a prototypical utility player, not dissimilar to Lexie Hull for our team the past few seasons. Lexie's stats were always underwhelming relative to all the little things she did to contribute that don't show up in the stay sheet. And on offense, there truly is nothing Cooke can't do - shake and bake, step back, drive to the rim, shoot from outside, etc. And she's endlessly energetic on defense. And Lexie was never an A-A. But she was damn good and a player any team would be lucky to have. The same is true for Zia.

And I'll wear a U$C hat to every Stanford game next season if Boston isn't a first team A-A at seasons end. It irks me that she gets favorable treatment from the refs, but there is absolutely no question she is among the five best players in WCBB.

Well said re Zia Cooke (and Lexie).

At this point in the season, it defies whatever logic goes into selecting an All-American team not to have Clark, Siegrist and Reese well ahead of Boston in any fair ranking of performance, whether Aliyah is being triple teamed or not... if we're ranking them by likely draft order, that's a different matter.

Then there are Kittley, whichever or both of Stanford's top duo one prefers, plus Miles and probably others - maybe Aaliyah Edwards? - who could be considered to have performed better than Boston this season.

If they're triple-teaming Boston, then who is guarding Cooke? Boston is an AA. I don't care what numbers she has. Cooke is not a 1st team AA, IMO. If I'm at the park playing pickup and all these folks are available...I pick Boston 1st...no question.

How can numbers not count for anything? We know Boston is a great player, and very well might show it again in big games to come, but if she's not scoring much or getting as many rebounds as she once did, how should others at top programs who are producing be considered behind her? This thread is about 'early January A-A considerations.'

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Well said re Zia Cooke (and Lexie).

At this point in the season, it defies whatever logic goes into selecting an All-American team not to have Clark, Siegrist and Reese well ahead of Boston in any fair ranking of performance, whether Aliyah is being triple teamed or not... if we're ranking them by likely draft order, that's a different matter.

Then there are Kittley, whichever or both of Stanford's top duo one prefers, plus Miles and probably others - maybe Aaliyah Edwards? - who could be considered to have performed better than Boston this season.

How can numbers not count for anything? We know Boston is a great player, and very well might show it again in big games to come, but if she's not scoring much or getting as many rebounds as she once did, how should others at top programs who are producing be considered behind her? This thread is about 'early January A-A considerations.'

Well... there are no stats kept for being triple teamed so...in this instance, that's how. Look. I'm not even a Boston fan and it's clear to me why her scoring is down. She's playing less and the strategy for most defenses is to deny her the ball. Cooke should be scoring more. It all makes sense. Draft order consideration is certainly not all bout stats. Boston is going #1 for a reason. TBH...and we all know this, take scoring for example..if you're on a crappy team and can score, then you will score a lot. On a balanced scoring team...not so much. I wouldn't totally dismiss 'stats', but sometimes they are indicators of other things. Put Caitlin Clarke on any top 5 team and she would not have to score as much. She's an AA too.

 

[Bone Dog]

Draft order consideration is certainly not all bout stats. Boston is going #1 for a reason.

I wonder if Boston will go #1. It's possible, maybe even likely. But will professional teams consider her excellence in the paint sufficient without a corresponding excellence as an outside shooter? I don't know the answer to this, but just as a casual fan, to my untrained eye the WNBA seems to be full of bigs who can regularly knock down a 3 or a long 2.

I'm sure she'll be a 1st round pick, even a high one. But I can't help wondering if there isn't someone else who might look even more tantalizing to the pro scouts. I don't see a Rhine Howard type in this class, but I may not be well enough informed.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I wonder if Boston will go #1. It's possible, maybe even likely. But will professional teams consider her excellence in the paint sufficient without a corresponding excellence as an outside shooter? I don't know the answer to this, but just as a casual fan, to my untrained eye the WNBA seems to be full of bigs who can regularly knock down a 3 or a long 2.

I'm sure she'll be a 1st round pick, even a high one. But I can't help wondering if there isn't someone else who might look even more tantalizing to the pro scouts. I don't see a Rhine Howard type in this class, but I may not be well enough informed.

I would take her at #1 even if it were to trade her. IMO that would be crazy, but a team's needs vary. Boston's offense is just part of her skillset. Her defense is impressive (elite really). Footwork...impressive. Patience...pro level. She's elite on both ends of the floor. Not a lot of those types.