Duke: The State of Duke Women's Basketball

[hoopsfan22]

I get that Kim now looks and acts like she was raised in West TX, but I don’t buy that her success at Baylor is the result of her persona, as opposed to the fact that she’s an outstanding coach and recruiter.

When Kim arrived in Waco, she took over a 7-20 team that was last in the conference. The Lady Bears made the NCAA tournament in her first year and have won over 20 games every year since. Kim can flat out coach. That’s why she is successful.

Well that I couldn't tell you about that, but we have seen many recruits make that geographical connection with coaches in various sports whether it's the Philly connection in basketball or the southern thing for football. It does matter to some degree in the recruiting wars which obviously has a direct impact on the success of the program.

 

[Plebe]

Mulkey was born in Santa Ana, and that's basically it. I would guess she doesn't even consider that her home town because she probably barely remembers it as she spent much of her childhood living and playing basketball in Louisiana. I mean you guys have heard Mulkey at a press conference... she has that deep south drawl and I've heard her say one time to the press that "y'all are city slickers and need to grow up in the country" or something to that effect. Mulkey is about as far from California as she is Connecticut.

She was a baby when her family relocated to Louisiana. She was raised in Tickfaw, LA, and attended school in Hammond.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I liked Gail G. when she was coaching Duke. I never understood why she failed so miserably at Texas.

I wondered the same thing. One would think a better than good coach could coach anywhere, isn't that why colleges tend to recruit winning coaches? Tx had been able to recruit as did Duke so it is probably not recruiting.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I get that Kim now looks and acts like she was raised in West TX, but I don’t buy that her success at Baylor is the result of her persona, as opposed to the fact that she’s an outstanding coach and recruiter.

When Kim arrived in Waco, she took over a 7-20 team that was last in the conference. The Lady Bears made the NCAA tournament in her first year and have won over 20 games every year since. Kim can flat out coach. That’s why she is successful.

I thought people were trying to explain why Gail G. was unsuccessful at recruiting at Texas after doing an excellent job at Duke. And then you asked why Mulkey was successful at Baylor given her lack of Texas roots. No one was questioning her coaching skills in this thread. We were just explaining why she was more successful at recruiting in Texas than Gail. Mulkey is certainly a good coach, but I would rank her recruiting skills above her coaching acumen.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I get that Kim now looks and acts like she was raised in West TX, but I don’t buy that her success at Baylor is the result of her persona, as opposed to the fact that she’s an outstanding coach and recruiter.

When Kim arrived in Waco, she took over a 7-20 team that was last in the conference. The Lady Bears made the NCAA tournament in her first year and have won over 20 games every year since. Kim can flat out coach. That’s why she is successful.

I won't argue against Mulkey being one of the better coaches/ recruiters.
When a new coach has outstanding success it is OFTEN because the preceding coach left a lot of talent behind. She has recruited more than well.

 

[oldude]

I thought people were trying to explain why Gail G. was unsuccessful at recruiting at Texas after doing an excellent job at Duke. And then you asked why Mulkey was successful at Baylor given her lack of Texas roots. No one was questioning her coaching skills in this thread. We were just explaining why she was more successful at recruiting in Texas than Gail. Mulkey is certainly a good coach, but I would rank her recruiting skills above her coaching acumen.

Here's the point that you miss. Kim started winning from Day1 in Waco and never stopped. She started winning even before her recruits could have much of an impact. Gail G took over a once great program that had begun to falter during Jody Condradt's last few years and did nothing much with it. Certainly Mulkey is a better recruiter than Gail G, but you still have to get the kids to play and Mulkey got her Baylor team to play from Day1.

 

[my2cents]

Huh?
Ok, your point is that McCallie has not done as well as Goestenkors. Just as the next UCONN Coach (which there will be one) can never match Geno's numbers.
That does not make them a bad coach. The new coach , McCallie, in your post, needs to be evaluated against a probable coach that would take her place.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Huh?
Ok, your point is that McCallie has not done as well as Goestenkors. Just as the next UCONN Coach (which there will be one) can never match Geno's numbers.
That does not make them a bad coach. The new coach , McCallie, in your post, needs to be evaluated against a probable coach that would take her place.

When Gail Goestenkors was being courted by Texas and offering more money, then-AD Joe Alleva said this about her:

Compared to the top tier of coaches in the women's game, however, Goestenkors' salary does not stack up. Tennessee's Pat Summitt is the highest-paid coach in women's college basketball at an average of $1.125 million guaranteed over six seasons, and Geno Auriemma's contract with Connecticut guarantees him $988,000 per year.
[Coach G made less than $500,000 at the time]

"They've both won a lot of national championships and are part of programs that make money for their institutions. They bring in profit for their athletic departments, and that's not the case for our women's program," Alleva said. "I'm sure some of these other institutions will offer significantly large packages to encourage her to go.

LINK

After she left for Texas, Joe Alleva hired Joanne P. McCallie and made proclomations about McCallie not just equaling, but surpassing the success and accomplishments of Goestenkors and having McCallie do what she (Goestenkors) did not do — win the national title.

So yes, I think it is perfectly fair to compare McCallie to her predecessor, when her predecessor was publicly derided for what she did not do (instead of being praised for building a program from nothing) and how she (McCallie) was being brought in to take Duke over the hump and accomplish what her predecessor did not.

 

[shizam]

So how do you explain the success of Kim Mulkey from Santa Ana, CA who played and coached at Louisiana Tech prior to taking the HC job at Baylor?

Amazing Mulkey is from Orange County. I would have said the swamps of Louisiana. That’s surprising

 

[shizam]

When Gail Goestenkors was being courted by Texas and offering more money, then-AD Joe Alleva said this about her:

Compared to the top tier of coaches in the women's game, however, Goestenkors' salary does not stack up. Tennessee's Pat Summitt is the highest-paid coach in women's college basketball at an average of $1.125 million guaranteed over six seasons, and Geno Auriemma's contract with Connecticut guarantees him $988,000 per year.
[Coach G made less than $500,000 at the time]

"They've both won a lot of national championships and are part of programs that make money for their institutions. They bring in profit for their athletic departments, and that's not the case for our women's program," Alleva said. "I'm sure some of these other institutions will offer significantly large packages to encourage her to go.

LINK

After she left for Texas, Joe Alleva hired Joanne P. McCallie and made proclomations about McCallie not just equaling, but surpassing the success and accomplishments of Goestenkors and having McCallie do what she (Goestenkors) did not do — win the national title.

So yes, I think it is perfectly fair to compare McCallie to her predecessor, when her predecessor was publicly derided for what she did not do (instead of being praised for building a program from nothing) and how she (McCallie) was being brought in to take Duke over the hump and accomplish what her predecessor did not.

I just watched on You Tube Coach G for the first time against Minn and Lindsay Whalen and Janel M. Those two were good together. Coach G had 3 future WNBAers Beard, Harding and Currie in that game. I liked what I saw in Coach G. Seemed normal. Most coaches you see the shades of crazy in them.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I apologize for bringing up a thread from a few days ago but it was a super busy week and I am just now catching up. I wanted to post here because Duke was a program I followed closely for a few years. I was living in Greensboro when Duke shocked UT in 1999 and wish I had been there in person. That win got my attention and I made a couple of trips to watch Duke at Cameron while I lived in the area.

I was disappointed Duke didn't try to keep Goestenkors around. I recall there being a lot of discussion about her salary and what it would be at Texas. Texas has deep pockets but so does Duke. While she was coaching there Duke was the clear number 3 program nationally and they were oh so close to a NC. I think if she had gotten over that hump the school would have tried to keep her around. She had some great players and some good success in Durham and I hate that for whatever reason, she wasn't able to replicate even some of that in Austin. Duke, like Stanford, ND and Baylor, are terrific schools academically and I think would be top destinations for good players who are also strong students. Cameron is one of the neatest places to watch a game and the campus is gorgeous.

The current Duke coach isn't my favorite, just sort of rubs me the wrong way, but hasn't been able to capitalize on even her teams with great talent. I wonder how much the school is engaged in women's basketball because that's the true measuring stick. SC was at the bottom of the SEC (along with Mississippi State) for many years. Dawn came to Columbia for reasons I was curious about at the time but now I see she clearly knew there would be a high level of support there. That's good for the game and wish a few more schools would be so committed.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

SC was at the bottom of the SEC (along with Mississippi State) for many years. Dawn came to Columbia for reasons I was curious about at the time but now I see she clearly knew there would be a high level of support there. That's good for the game and wish a few more schools would be so committed.

Staley's mother is from South Carolina and I think there is extended family. Believe Summitt was something of a mentor to her and the SEC appealed to her as a power league.

Also our AD at the time had a commitment to improving all sports and came up with a solid compensation package. Man, that was controversial for several years, because she was making more than the baseball coach (now AD Ray Tanner) and Tanner was chapped about it. In fact, he nearly left for Oklahoma before getting a raise.

 

[Plebe]

Staley's mother is from South Carolina and I think there is extended family. Believe Summitt was something of a mentor to her and the SEC appealed to her as a power league.

Also our AD at the time had a commitment to improving all sports and came up with a solid compensation package. Man, that was controversial for several years, because she was making more than the baseball coach (now AD Ray Tanner) and Tanner was chapped about it. In fact, he nearly left for Oklahoma before getting a raise.

You mean Summitt was a mentor to Dawn? That's something I hadn't heard before...

 

[Gamecockfan77]

You mean Summitt was a mentor to Dawn? That's something I hadn't heard before...

I've seen it mentioned a few times recently. Don't know the details of it.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Staley's mother is from South Carolina and I think there is extended family. Believe Summitt was something of a mentor to her and the SEC appealed to her as a power league.

Also our AD at the time had a commitment to improving all sports and came up with a solid compensation package. Man, that was controversial for several years, because she was making more than the baseball coach (now AD Ray Tanner) and Tanner was chapped about it. In fact, he nearly left for Oklahoma before getting a raise.

That sounds solid. I recall MSU, KY and SC being at the cellar of the SEC for years as UT, UGA, LSU, and Vanderbilt were the powers of the conference. It's funny how things change.

 

[DefenseBB]

@oldude nailed it, Kim made the connections with all the local coaches and programs whereas GG still thought she was at Duke and didn’t want/need the local coaches around as much as she probably should have. GG didn’t realize the Texas Girls HS leadership acts in concert in that you irritate a few, all line up against you. Duke also sells itself so Gail didn’t have to schmooze, which at Texas, you need to. Karen Aston coached under Kim and probably learned that. Gail’s actual coaches also diminished while at Texas, her teams didn’t evolve throughout the year.

I do wonder if she want back into coaching college and if she would go back to Duke or even if Duke would take her back.

 

[Shmermerer]

@oldude nailed it, Kim made the connections with all the local coaches and programs whereas GG still thought she was at Duke and didn’t want/need the local coaches around as much as she probably should have. GG didn’t realize the Texas Girls HS leadership acts in concert in that you irritate a few, all line up against you. Duke also sells itself so Gail didn’t have to schmooze, which at Texas, you need to. Karen Aston coached under Kim and probably learned that. Gail’s actual coaches also diminished while at Texas, her teams didn’t evolve throughout the year.

I do wonder if she want back into coaching college and if she would go back to Duke or even if Duke would take her back.

I believe Kim also brought on one of the top AAU coaches initially which got in state commitments within the program. I think that’s what happened.

I’m not sure who GG’s assistant were, but if they didn’t have any ties to Texas that could have been one of the reasons why she didn’t recruit well there.

 

[Sakibomb25]

I must admit, I hated Duke when Goestenkors was coaching them. I frankly was jealous of all the recruits Duke was getting at the time (this was during the "dark" ages of Stanford). As the years went by, I (matured and) grew to respect Goestenkors and all that she had accomplished at Duke. She got the shaft, plain and simple, by Avila. She deserved better and Duke is paying for its foolishness. The school thought it could do better than Goestenkors... and it hasn't.

Does anyone know why she hasn't gotten back into coaching? Is she just done with the profession?

Sorry Cam, but you and your fanbase deserve better :/

 

[DefenseBB]

. She got the shaft, plain and simple, by Avila. She deserved better and Duke is paying for its foolishness. The school thought it could do better than Goestenkors... and it hasn't.../

Is Avila related to the current LSU AD Joe Alleva (who also was the former Duke AD)?
Personally, I think Gail is done coaching, but if she isn't would a top P5 school look at her and/or would Duke consider rehiring her AND would Gail consider Duke again now that Alleva is gone and the money would be fairly significant?

Duke will have to ride out JPM and determine what the priority is for their Women's sports visa vi the money to put into the program.

For a comparison-
JPM has a 297-80 (.788) record at Duke and 613-228 (.729) overall. She's won 4 reg season titles in 11 years, 3 Conf Tournament titles. 4 times to Elite 8 (last 2012)
Holly Warlick has a 153-54 (.739) record at Tenn. She's won 2 regular season and 2 conf tournament titles in 6 years and made the Elite 8 3 times (last in 2016)
Both inherited storied programs and both compete in a top conference. Holly just got a 3 year extension. Seems to me, Duke may just extend JPM as well.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

@oldude nailed it, Kim made the connections with all the local coaches and programs whereas GG still thought she was at Duke and didn’t want/need the local coaches around as much as she probably should have. GG didn’t realize the Texas Girls HS leadership acts in concert in that you irritate a few, all line up against you.

This is not quite accurate, because it ignores the actions of AD Chris Plonsky and former Assistant Coach Clarissa Davis-Wrightsil.

In very short summary, Plonsky told Goestenkors not to keep any of the Texas assistant coaches, so she did not (and brought some of her own people). Davis-Wrightsil was outraged and essentially trashed Texas and Coach G to all of her connections in the Texas high school basketball scene -- and believe me, Davis-Wrightsi's network and contacts were extensive.

Gail's contacts were with AAU coaches, which worked very well in her recruiting strongholds - DC/MD/VA and NY/NJ/PA. In Texas, the high school/local coaches are the ones with the power and the sway, so to speak.

Gail did not have the right contacts for Texas, but the actions of Plonsky and Davis-Wrightsil all but guaranteed that Texas would not be getting the top-tier in-state recruits during her tenure.

Duke also sells itself so Gail didn’t have to schmooze, which at Texas, you need to. Karen Aston coached under Kim and probably learned that. Gail’s actual coaches also diminished while at Texas, her teams didn’t evolve throughout the year.

Duke sold itself, because Goestenkors BUILT it to sell itself. If Duke truly sold itself, Joanne P. McCallie would have had more success in the past three recruiting classes.

But Goestenkors also failed to realize how the Duke brand and the combination of athletics, academics, alumni network, etc. played a part in her recruiting strategy. Whereas McCallie overestimated how much Duke sold itself, Goestenkors underestimated it, in terms of making the final pitches to recruits.

I’m not sure who GG’s assistant were, but if they didn’t have any ties to Texas that could have been one of the reasons why she didn’t recruit well there.

See my above comments about Plonsky and Davis-Wrightsil. But truth be told, Goestenkors needed to really get someone entrenched in Texas recruiting, which Davis-Wrightstil was.

Is Avila related to the current LSU AD Joe Alleva (who also was the former Duke AD).

I believe @Sakibomb25 meant to say "Alleva." But yes, that was referring to LSU AD Joe Alleva, who was the former Duke AD.

IN SUMMARY, my honest believe is the statements from then-AD Joe Alleva were the deciding factor in her decision to leave. I am repeating the comments here:

Compared to the top tier of coaches in the women's game, however, Goestenkors' salary does not stack up. Tennessee's Pat Summitt is the highest-paid coach in women's college basketball at an average of $1.125 million guaranteed over six seasons, and Geno Auriemma's contract with Connecticut guarantees him $988,000 per year.
[Coach G made less than $500,000 at the time]

"They've both won a lot of national championships and are part of programs that make money for their institutions. They bring in profit for their athletic departments, and that's not the case for our women's program," Alleva said. "I'm sure some of these other institutions will offer significantly large packages to encourage her to go.

I firmly believe that Goestenkors was not running toward Texas, but running away from Duke. She felt completely disrespected and devalued -- and rightfully so. But I also believe that without those statements from then-AD Joe Alleva, she would have taken more time to evaluate her decision and would have chosen to stay at Duke.