Duke Rumor about Coach P

[Geno-ista]

I have seen a number of comments on Duke boards referring "the incident" with Calhoun and stating that "this kind of stuff" has been going on for a time and the powers that be at Duke were aware of it. The fact is that her public verbal abuse of her players is a severe and ongoing embarassment to the university and it doesn't take much imagination to imagine what her treatemtn of them in practice must be like. Not good for Duke's image. At all.

Yes The Duke administration wouldn't want to ruin their image, especially after the way they and hundreds of professors, who signed the petition to throw the lacrosse team under the bus , before any of the allegations were remotely confirmed! They have quite a track record to uphold!

 

[CocoHusky]

Sometimes, Herm is crazy intense, but as an Eagles fan, I still like him. Any Giants' fans remember the "Miracle of the Meadowlands" play involving Herm, Pisarcek, and Csonka? I think it's probably known as something else in New York. Everytime you see a QB take a knee to run out the clock, THAT play is the reason.

Ironically the NFL is thinking about changing QB taking a knee. Under the new proposal the team that is ahead "must" make an attempt to advance the ball.

 

[BlueDevils]

I have seen a number of comments on Duke boards referring "the incident" with Calhoun and stating that "this kind of stuff" has been going on for a time and the powers that be at Duke were aware of it. The fact is that her public verbal abuse of her players is a severe and ongoing embarassment to the university and it doesn't take much imagination to imagine what her treatemtn of them in practice must be like. Not good for Duke's image. At all.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about lol. Many people on the Duke boards blamed Sierra leaving because our coach can't utilize her talents. I'm just curious on where your quotes came from. Link maybe?

 

[malevocalist#]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about lol. Many people on the Duke boards blamed Sierra leaving because our coach can't utilize her talents. I'm just curious on where your quotes came from. Link maybe?

Can't utilize her talent? what happen to patients? She's only a freshman. Ainnit?

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

If Duke gets rid of Coach P, I won't be able to report on her coaching when we play them in Columbia next season. I will get to report on Geno up close, though.

 

[hjoerring]

This is all about Uconn's fans. I doubt other fans- including Duke- follow coach P so closely as we do. Our dislike of this person goes well beyond the expected. If I had time I would count the number of posts having her as a main theme or, ones plugging her in for this or that reason. D

 

[HuskyNan]

The Duke success is notable, and most schools would be thrilled with those results, but ...

It pales relative to the Duke men, who play in a much more competitive environment.

It is a poorer record than that of Gail, who made it to multiple Final Fours.

It is disappointing given that they have had top 2-3 talent on paper since JPM arrived.

Several assistants and players appear to have bailed.

JPM has never, to my knowledge, accepted any responsibility. Instead, she repeatedly blamed the players--the players recruited and coached by her.

Plus she keeps making lame statements about "learning," but she doesn't put that knowledge to use.

I'm not saying she's a bad coach, but I think she's underperforming, and her ceiling is lower than Duke probably wants.

JPM has coached her team to approximately 50% winning average over Top 10 teams and about a 30% winning average over teams in the Top 5. JPM has never come close to scaring UConn while Gail G had 2 wins over the Huskies - in Connecticut.

 

[Buzzyboy]

It is also difficult believing that Duke would be willing to offer a buyout on a contract with four years still remaining on a contract that was just extended two years ago.

I didn't realize she had been extended as recently as that. I think if they were content enough with her performance two years ago to extend her contract, little has happened since then to make them suddenly dissatisfied enough to buy her out. She continues to win games and have success though not nearly the success you'd expect with their talent level. I do agree some of the postgame remarks are reminiscent of Casey or maybe even Yogi!

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

The difference is, Duke was never close to the level of dominance that UCONN has found under Geno. Under Gail, they were a consistent Final Four favorite and a title threat most years, even if Gail couldn't bring home the title. She did a great job recruiting and put together some very strong teams. Outside of Tennessee/UCONN, Duke was easily the strongest team in WCBB from 1999-2007. Duke was dominant and a scary team to face in March. It was a surprise in 2007, 2004 and 2001 when they were upset in the regional and didn't play in the Final Four.

bballnut90 had such a great post. I am going to respond in a few threads (every person who reads my posts on The Boneyard knows that I cannot possibly be succinct or brief with my comments...LOL).

In 2004, Duke faced 7th seeded Minnesota, severely underseeded because of Whalen's injury in the middle of the season. But while that team was very deep, it was not the best three-point shooting team among the starting lineup. And Harding and Beard could not contain Whalen that night.

In 2007, it was the rumors about Goestenkors and Texas. Duke beat Rutgers by 40 points in the regular season, but lose at the end of the game by one point after Lindsey Harding missed two free throws. The media speculation about Gail replacing Conradt was constant, and it really impacted the team. And the irony of the situation is that Duke is now facing a similar situation (though not to the same degree) with the discussions about McCallie. But Duke should have won that game.

As an aside, I have had many off-the-record discussions with WCBB journalists and insiders. The 2007 game only fueled the fire about "the Duke kid." Basically, the buzz is that Duke recruits certain types of kids - smart, good basketball players, and nice...but that lack the killer instinct. Whereas these same insiders say that UConn's kids would die for Geno (figuratively, of course) and would do whatever he said and whatever it took to bring home the hardware, the Duke kids do not have the same killer instinct, absent a few exceptions (e.g., Monique Currie).

This last paragraph was not really responsive to bballnut90's post, but I thought it was an interesting observation made by several insiders. And that was back in 2007. I do not believe that anything has changed in the ensuing eight years.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Gail left Duke in a great position. The came off a 32-2 season, had an outstanding player in Waner returning (she was phenomenal as a sophomore), Chante Black was set to return after a year off, 2 top 10 kids were coming in, and the rest of the lineup was littered with McDonald's All-Americans. Since then, Coach P has done an outstanding job recruiting, but has never made Duke into a Final Four favorite or championship threat like Gail did.

Absolutely correct. When McCallie took over, she inherited a roster with eight McDonald's All-Americans (Wanisha Smith, Chante Black, Carrem Gay, Abby Waner, Joy Cheek, Bridgette Mitchell, Jasmine Thomas, and Krystal Thomas). And in that first year, Duke had ten losses. In the next year, Duke had seven McDonald's All Americans and a good regular season (good enough to earn a #1 seed), but lost in the second round of the tournament.

With the 2010 recruiting class, McCallie started an unprecedented run of top five recruiting classes at Duke. And not just top five...#1 and #2 classes. There have been more high school All-Americans at Duke than at any point in school history. But the recruited talent never seems to live up to the expectations. Duke has four Elite Eights in eight years of the McCallie era (this is her eighth year), but three of those losses have been by double digits and in two of the games, Duke scored in the 40s.

Interestingly enough, McCallie repeatedly told people that Goestenkors "left [her] with no talent" on the roster. In recent years, including this year, she has said that Duke's lack of postseason results was because other teams had better players and more talent. First, it is not true, if you look at high school recruiting rankings, All-Americans, and other accolades. Second, even if it were true, it is her job to recruit the best possible players.

 

[wes33]

Absolutely correct. When McCallie took over, she inherited a roster with eight McDonald's All-Americans (Wanisha Smith, Chante Black, Carrem Gay, Abby Waner, Joy Cheek, Bridgette Mitchell, Jasmine Thomas, and Krystal Thomas). And in that first year, Duke had ten losses. In the next year, Duke had seven McDonald's All Americans and a good regular season (good enough to earn a #1 seed), but lost in the second round of the tournament.

With the 2010 recruiting class, McCallie started an unprecedented run of top five recruiting classes at Duke. And not just top five...#1 and #2 classes. There have been more high school All-Americans at Duke than at any point in school history. But the recruited talent never seems to live up to the expectations. Duke has four Elite Eights in eight years of the McCallie era (this is her eighth year), but three of those losses have been by double digits and in two of the games, Duke scored in the 40s.

Interestingly enough, McCallie repeatedly told people that Goestenkors "left [her] with no talent" on the roster. In recent years, including this year, she has said that Duke's lack of postseason results was because other teams had better players and more talent. First, it is not true, if you look at high school recruiting rankings, All-Americans, and other accolades. Second, even if it were true, it is her job to recruit the best possible players.

The chances are much better for a extended contract than cutting her lose at this time
in my opinion. If she was cut it would be difficult for some on the Duke board that have
become so obsessed with coach P and would have a lot of trouble in the transition back to
a sports board.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Waner looked like she had the ability to develop into a perennial All American under Coach G. Jasmine Thomas was an incredibly athletic and talented player who has since started in the WNBA Finals. They have had the horses and talent to at least make the Final Four.

Abby Waner, under Goestenkors (two years):
11.4 points, 3.4 rebounds, 3.0 assists, and 2.17 steals per game, 45.8 percent from the floor, 37.0 percent from three.

Abby Waner, under Goestenkors (sophomore year, after Currie, Foley, and Bass graduated):
14.1 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.7 assists, and 2.5 steals per game, 46 percent from the floor, 36.2 percent from three - and the leading scorer on a team that went through the regular season undefeated

Abby Waner, under McCallie (two years):
10.03 points, 3.39 rebounds, 3.67 assists, and 2.65 steals per game, 33.1 percent from the floor, 28.1 percent from three,

In her four years under McCallie, Jasmine Thomas shot 37.6 percent from the floor and never had a season over 40 percent. These are overall percentages, not from three.

Remember, Jasmine Thomas came in as a "Lindsey Harding-type" and was coming in as a replacement for Harding (Thomas was the high school class of 2007; Harding's last year at Duke was 2006-2007).

This is what Lindsey Harding did at Duke:
2002-2003: 43.8 percent from the floor, 7.7 percent from three
2003-2004: 45.9 percent from the floor, 24.1 percent from three
2005-2006: 48.1 percent from the floor, 41.1 percent from three
2006-2007: 44.4 percent from the floor, 38.1 percent from three

Notice the improvement in Harding's shooting under Goestenkors, while Thomas, under McCallie for four years, could not crack 40 percent for any season in terms of overall shooting while at Duke.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

They've had plausible reasons for their inability to make the Final Four, but Duke has never surprised anybody or pulled off an upset. Every game they are expected to lose, they lose. Games they are expected to win they usually win, and sometimes lose.

Under Gail they:
-pulled off one of the biggest upsets in NCAA history when they gave Chamique Holdsclaw her only NCAA tournament loss
-Beat UCONN in Storrs in 2004 ending UCONN's home winning streak
-Slaughtered Tennessee in 2003 and 2006
-Beat them again in 2005 and 2007, both times in TBA. Tennessee went on to win the title in 2007 and made the Final Four in 05
-Beat UCONN in Connecticut during the NCAA tournament. Not sure anyone else has accomplished this
-Slaughtered LSU in 2006 when LSU had Fowles and Augustus
-Thumped eventual title runner up Rutgers by 40 in 2007

All of these are examples of wins that are superior to Coach P's most impressive victory. Tennessee's stellar 2008 graduating class went 0-3 against Goestenkors.

Under P, Duke is consistently good, but not great, which is under performing considering how much talent Duke has assimilated every year and how solid of a position Gail Goestenkors left Duke in.

Many people associate Goestenkors with the "deer in headlights" phrase. She had that look in the 2003 game against UConn in Cameron. Duke was getting blown out by 28 points. Under McCallie, the game was over. Under Gail, however, the lead was only 6 points with one minute remaining, before free throws made the difference in the final margin.

Goestenkors went 2-2 against Geno, with both wins in the State of Connecticut (2004 and 2006).

Goestenkors went 5-4 against Tennessee, winning all games played in Knoxville and going 3-0 against the Parker/Anosike/Hornbuckle/Fuller recruiting class (and with two of those wins on Tennessee's home floor).

After the 2002-2003 season (covering 2003-2004 through 2006-2007), Goestenkors had a combined record of 5-1 record against Pat Summitt and Geno Auriemma. Not many people can say that (especially since both UConn, in 2004, and Tennessee, in 2007, won national titles during this time frame).

If you look at Goestenkors in the Alana Beard years (Final Fours in 2002 and 2003), you can see the "deer in the headlights" in a few games. If you look after Beard graduated, you will see how much Goestenkors improved as a coach, how different the offensive schemes were, and how much of a better leader and tactician she was.

 

[Zorro]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about lol. Many people on the Duke boards blamed Sierra leaving because our coach can't utilize her talents. I'm just curious on where your quotes came from. Link maybe?

Yeah. They were on the women's version of the Duke Basketball Report. I can't give you the name of the posters because I always have the helluva time finding that board amonst all the Duke men's boards and the url I had saved seems not to be there any more. I think maybe there were also some comments to that effect on the DD, but can't swear to it. I did NOT make it up. There was nothing specific, only some pretty strong refereces to her mis-treatment of her players.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Charlie Creme has USF in Duke's bracket, that's a matchup if I'm Duke I don't want to seee. Courtney Williams would own Duke's guards.

 

[BlueDevils]

Charlie Creme has USF in Duke's bracket, that's a matchup if I'm Duke I don't want to seee. Courtney Williams would own Duke's guards.

Who guards Azura Stevens? And is USF good at closing out on shooters?

 

[BlueDevils]

Can't utilize her talent? what happen to patients? She's only a freshman. Ainnit?

I agree with this. I'm for one believes Coach P had nothing to do with Sierra leaving. Considering she still hasnt found a school I'm assuming it was a family issue.

 

[Gate81]

bballnut90 had such a great post. I am going to respond in a few threads (every person who reads my posts on The Boneyard knows that I cannot possibly be succinct or brief with my comments...LOL).

In 2004, Duke faced 7th seeded Minnesota, severely underseeded because of Whalen's injury in the middle of the season. But while that team was very deep, it was not the best three-point shooting team among the starting lineup. And Harding and Beard could not contain Whalen that night.

In 2007, it was the rumors about Goestenkors and Texas. Duke beat Rutgers by 40 points in the regular season, but lose at the end of the game by one point after Lindsey Harding missed two free throws. The media speculation about Gail replacing Conradt was constant, and it really impacted the team. And the irony of the situation is that Duke is now facing a similar situation (though not to the same degree) with the discussions about McCallie. But Duke should have won that game.

As an aside, I have had many off-the-record discussions with WCBB journalists and insiders. The 2007 game only fueled the fire about "the Duke kid." Basically, the buzz is that Duke recruits certain types of kids - smart, good basketball players, and nice...but that lack the killer instinct. Whereas these same insiders say that UConn's kids would die for Geno (figuratively, of course) and would do whatever he said and whatever it took to bring home the hardware, the Duke kids do not have the same killer instinct, absent a few exceptions (e.g., Monique Currie).

This last paragraph was not really responsive to bballnut90's post, but I thought it was an interesting observation made by several insiders. And that was back in 2007. I do not believe that anything has changed in the ensuing eight years.

Stanford often has same issue with kids lacking killer instinct (all Ogwumikes excluded)!

 

[MilfordHusky]

Just a few thoughts ...

I don't "dislike" Coach P. I ran into her at an airport on the way to a Final Four, and she seemed personable. But I think she has underachieved, and I really dislike her lack of responsibility for her team's shortcomings. Her press conferences are predictable and seem almost like a Saturday Night Live skit.

I agree about the lack of killer instinct. Iciss Tillis played soft, as did many of her teammates. Mo Currie, on the other hand, has fire. In the Duke comeback win at UConn, her intensity was the major reason why the team didn't give up when they were 15 points down.

Gail was a good coach, probably better than Joann. But she had the "deer in the headlights" look as much as anyone I've ever seen. I thought that, if she could improve her facial expressions and body language, she would be a better coach. Her defeatist look in some situations was spread to her team, in my opinion.

The Duke team that lost to Rutgers when harming missed the FTs was a really, really good team. The Duke team that lost in the NC game was the best team in the country that year. But Jeff Walz drew up a play, Tolliver hit a shot, and the rest is history.

 

[triaddukefan]

Charlie Creme has USF in Duke's bracket, that's a matchup if I'm Duke I don't want to seee. Courtney Williams would own Duke's guards.

If that game were in Tampa.. perhaps. Other than beating Oklahoma and keeping it relatively close vs UCONN... nothing on their resume impresses me, or would make me fearful of an upset.

 

[Striper69]

If that game were in Tampa.. perhaps. Other than beating Oklahoma and keeping it relatively close vs UCONN... nothing on their resume impresses me, or would make me fearful of an upset.

Duke will beat USF.

 

[Geno-ista]

Just a few thoughts ...

I don't "dislike" Coach P. I ran into her at an airport on the way to a Final Four, and she seemed personable. But I think she has underachieved, and I really dislike her lack of responsibility for her team's shortcomings. Her press conferences are predictable and seem almost like a Saturday Night Live skit.

I agree about the lack of killer instinct. Iciss Tillis played soft, as did many of her teammates. Mo Currie, on the other hand, has fire. In the Duke comeback win at UConn, her intensity was the major reason why the team didn't give up when they were 15 points down.

Gail was a good coach, probably better than Joann. But she had the "deer in the headlights" look as much as anyone I've ever seen. I thought that, if she could improve her facial expressions and body language, she would be a better coach. Her defeatist look in some situations was spread to her team, in my opinion.

The Duke team that lost to Rutgers when harming missed the FTs was a really, really good team. The Duke team that lost in the NC game was the best team in the country that year. But Jeff Walz drew up a play, Tolliver hit a shot, and the rest is history.

Love your comments. Chatted with her at the Final Four this past yr at a served luncheon after some great ncaa meeting/seminars at the arena. She was a real pleasure to talk with. And she looks like what a coach should look like-to me anyway! But I do agree with all your observations!

 

[Boxerpups4me]

Coach P may redeem herself by making a deep run in the NCAA Tournament. So don't count her out too quickly.

I was thinking the same thing. They have some potential favorable matchups to make a ff4 run...

 

[Geno-ista]

Duke will beat USF.

I'm sure Duke is playing better. But USF has better guard play. Uconn is big and talented and look what they did to us much of the time we've played them. Most teams that are human are vulnerable to them if they are playing inspired basketball.

 

[Striper69]

I'm sure Duke is playing better. But USF has better guard play. Uconn is big and talented and look what they did to us much of the time we've played them. Most teams that are human are vulnerable to them if they are playing inspired basketball.

Duke is too big for them. The game will be like when USF played MD.

 

[Geno-ista]

Duke is too big for them. The game will be like when USF played MD.

Probably right

 

[VolFan]

You need good guard play and depth to win in the NCAA tournament, and Duke doesn't have it. They remind me of some of Coach Summitt's final teams where we were playing wing type players at the 1 and 2. Bigger isn't always better.

 

[Striper69]

You need good guard play and depth to win in the NCAA tournament, and Duke doesn't have it. They remind me of some of Coach Summitt's final teams where we were playing wing type players at the 1 and 2. Bigger isn't always better.

Didn't say they were going to win the tournament. I said they would beat South Florida.

 

[VolFan]

Didn't say they were going to win the tournament. I said they would beat South Florida.

I said "win in the NCAA tournament" not "win the NCAA tournament" and I have serious doubts about their ability to beat South Florida. I was referring to the previous comments about them making a deep, possibly final four run in the tournament, not necessarily your South Florida comments, though.

 

[BlueDevils]

You need good guard play and depth to win in the NCAA tournament, and Duke doesn't have it. They remind me of some of Coach Summitt's final teams where we were playing wing type players at the 1 and 2. Bigger isn't always better.

I agree with this post 100%. Although I must say I do like Coach P vision for her team. The class she brought in this year were slasher/forward players. Next year class is all guards. If I see zone next year with the balance we have throughout I WILL NOT understand her motive.