Duke and Tennessee

[Jonathan Husky]

Duke is 15-6 with games vs Notre Dame, Miami, and Florida State left to play

Tennessee is 12-7 with games vs Miss State (still not sold on them), Texas A&M, and South Carolina remaining

Tremendous talent on both teams; both with, let's say, questionable coaching. Would the Athletic Directors stand for this if it were the men's teams?

Years ago the Syracuse women tried to pull a coup, going into the AD's office and demanding a coaching change because the coach had been racially insensitive and demeaning and they were tired of losing. The AD basically told them to suck it up. And then, the newspapers got a hold of the story and the coach evenutally "retired". Where's the outrage in Knoxville and Durham? Are people "disappointed" the women's teams are losing rather than fighting mad? C'mon people, show your women's teams the same support.

Last night I saw the Tenn/Kentucky game and was shocked at how poorly Tenn (and K) played. Despite having at least 2 elite players in De Shields and Russell, Tenn looked like a second tier team. The players were confused, turned over the ball on numerous occasions and had no flow to their offense and were weak defensively. This is a poorly coached Tenn team that will not get better without a coaching change. It will get worse in the future as potential recruits will no longer look at Tenn as a destination place. They need to hire either a established coach like Sue Semerau of Florida, Karli Turner of ASU or a promising experienced assistant coach like Niele Ivey of ND or Shea Ralph of UConn. Hiring Carolyn Peck or Tyler Summitt would be a big mistake.
As much as I don't like them I hate to see Tenn become a second rate WBB team. It is not good for WBB.

 

[JordyG]

OK, you're Dave Hart. You are paying Holly $665,000 and she is locked in for several years. There are no issues like moral turpitude or racism on the horizon. She has been winning about 80% of her games. To fire her (not for cause) would cost $2+million buyout. Then the hassle and cost of finding and hiring a replacement (and staff). What will you do and how will you explain your actions to the Board of Trustees, not to mention media?

You certainly have the gist of it. Another problem is that UT hasn't been relevant in football as well as men's basketball for quite a while. Football, the game that fuels all of big time college sports. WBB has been a hook to hang their collective, but not financial hats for many years. I think for UT fans watching this great basketball institution decline has been the final root canal. UT WBB troubles began while Pat was still coaching. Holly was not only her hand picked successor, but was seen as the right person to right the ship. Although limited, she has had some success. Dave won't/can't fire her. So the question is, will the continued snapping of fan and alumni teeth be enough to make her resign?

 

[JoePgh]

I think Shea Ralph would be a perfect choice if (somehow) Holly can be moved out of her chair by next season. Maybe the Tennessee fans wouldn't accept someone with UConn pedigree, even though she is a daughter of the South. Those who hire her might be concerned that she would see it as just a chance to build her resume in preparation for being the front-running candidate when Geno retires. But even if that is the case, Tennessee fans would get to enjoy 5-7 years of good basketball, since if she isn't successful, the UConn job won't be there for her.

I definitely agree that it isn't good for WCBB to have a lame Tennessee program over the long term.

With all the publicity that has already occurred, I can't see Holly getting any elite recruits for as long as she stays there, unless the team's performance really improves, which is quite unlikely. And she may lose a few of her current players after this year if the Tennessee season continues in its present vein. Someone like Nared, who has real promise, isn't helping her case to be drafted by the WNBA by continuing to play on that team, with that coach.

 

[Kaizen]

Years ago the Syracuse women tried to pull a coup, going into the AD's office and demanding a coaching change because the coach had been racially insensitive and demeaning and they were tired of losing. The AD basically told them to suck it up. And then, the newspapers got a hold of the story and the coach evenutally "retired". Where's the outrage in Knoxville and Durham? Are people "disappointed" the women's teams are losing rather than fighting mad? C'mon people, show your women's teams the same support.

May be this year, the coach should go to the AD's office demanding a player's change or bench ...LOL

 

[HuskyNan]

I am thinking that the point you are making cannot be the obvious one- firing a 15-6 and 12-7 coach in women's basketball. If geno goes 15-6 next year should he be fired? The Syracuse situation was radically different and should not pay service for the argument you would like to make. Push to the logical conclusion, firing would become the new norm. No way the top schools would play each other and risk losing. Mark my words- our day will come!

It's not just the records. It's the way the Tennessee players look lost and confused on the floor and the way Holly Warlick admits in pressers that she has no idea why her team doesn't play well. It's Duke's .75 to 1 Assist to Turnover ratio and scoring 48 points in a dreadful loss to Louisville and 50 points against Syracuse and 62 points to a mediocre NC State despite having superior talent, then Coach P blaming the players.

BTW, Tennessee has no signed recruits for next year and Duke has one.

If Duke and Tennessee were playing hard all the time, running some semblance of an organized offense, and improving, even marginally, as the season went on, it would be one thing but these teams seem to be in a downward spiral and the coaches are clueless to do anything about it. That's why the ADs needs to do...something, anything!

 

[Gus Mahler]

I think TN should hire Gail Goestenkors. They need a solid professional who has had success both recruiting and with big wins.

 

[uconnever]

i dont agree with Tenn because i think this team deserves more time. Diamond and Mercedes and Tea werent even playing last year. if next year is like this year, then change is needed. Duke needs change....period.

 

[BlueDevils]

i dont agree with Tenn because i think this team deserves more time. Diamond and Mercedes and Tea werent even playing last year. if next year is like this year, then change is needed. Duke needs change....period.

Half of Duke team was in high school last year. Duke is really bad. Tennessee is flirting with awful.

 

[Kibitzer]

It's not just the records. It's the way the Tennessee players look lost and confused on the floor and the way Holly Warlick admits in pressers that she has no idea why her team doesn't play well. It's Duke's .75 to 1 Assist to Turnover ratio and scoring 48 points in a dreadful loss to Louisville and 50 points against Syracuse and 62 points to a mediocre NC State despite having superior talent, then Coach P blaming the players.

BTW, Tennessee has no signed recruits for next year and Duke has one.

Hmm. Duke (ACC) and Tennessee (SEC) are not only underachieving on the court but whiffing on the recruiting trail. The conventional wisdom was that UConn would be doomed to failure at luring recruits because the AAC is not a hot-shot conference like the AAC or the SEC.

So much for that -- yet another internet legend.

 

[BlueDevils]

The Duke vs Notre dame come Monday at Cameron indoor will define this season. If we loss big again, get outcoached, give up open elbow/3 pointer looks we have a HIGH chance of missing the tournament.

If we can play Notre Dame competitive for 35-37 minutes it may be the push we need to beat Miami and/or Fsu and allow us the confidence to go deep in the ACC tournament.

As of right now my prediction is Notre dame 73 Duke 52

 

[j66kicker]

I certainly agree about the money Kib.

But there is a hue and a cry going on.
In the fan base, in the media, less quantifiable but certainly among a portion of the major donors and Pat supporters.
The AD and college Prez cannot help but notice that a flagship programs is steering into the rocks.;they read about it and cannot put on ignore, the daily bombast that is becoming a (smalltime) national obsession.

There are also the storied alumni of the program who have been remarkably silent in public. Has anyone heard a peep from Parker? from Kara Lawson?
God knows what they are saying behind the scenes, possibly as advisors.

No, the pressure is building for change...Hart may not be obsessed with the program but he will not want to be held responsible for its downfall.

if he doesn't watch out that will be next.

TN fans can clamor for a new coach all they want, but if they really want this to happen they need to do like big-time football boosters do and shell out the $$ to buy her out.

 

[VA Huskie]

i dont agree with Tenn because i think this team deserves more time. Diamond and Mercedes and Tea werent even playing last year. if next year is like this year, then change is needed. Duke needs change....period.

DD was with the team last year. Was she able to practice? If so, no excuse for her not being able to contribute better this year.

 

[uconnever]

Half of Duke team was in high school last year. Duke is really bad. Tennessee is flirting with awful.

yeah well you being a Duke fan, you should know what to expect from your coach. Tenn's coach has a team full of good players with high expectations really for the first time. give her another year.

 

[uconnever]

DD was with the team last year. Was she able to practice? If so, no excuse for her not being able to contribute better this year.

i think she has been hurt alot and hasnt really been playing all that much. then you add all the new players and she needs time. from what i have always seen from her as talented as she is, she is just streaky anyways. maybe im wrong and i dont like Tenn....im all Uconn, but im fair and Holly and the team deserve another year...at least.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Someone like Shea as a coach at TN would be interesting - you need a strong, fierce personality to wrangle the egos. And, a good teacher. I'm assuming Shea's a good teacher, but have no idea of her role....

Gail seems to quiet as a personality.

 

[cferraro04]

I believe it would take a life changing paradigm shift of gargantuan proportions to get Shea Ralph to accept a coaching job in Knoxville... I'm just sayin'

 

[trb123]

In the 1870s British tourists had to go to France to see Paris burn.
Thanks to the internet and our Vol Nation friends, I can watch Tennessee "burn" on my laptop.
My favorite among the fire and brimstone sermons on the Vol Nation board:

The lady vols need the presence of a CHRISTIAN MAN with a strong coaching pedigree. Not a lesbian assistant coach. JMO

Duke fans are far better educated and consequently Im Osten nichts Neues

 

[toadfoot]

She is a common choice of the fire Holly now and bring in someone to save the season!
On the SEC - the lack of quality of road team play is very real, so I give TN an advantage over most SEC teams that come to their court, and flip it for the away games. It is why the middle of the pack so often beats the ranked teams on their home floors and you get so many split series.

 

[UcMiami]

Toadfoot - nice research. A few thoughts and one 'request'.
1. Part of the P5 issue is the 'if you want to play us, you have to come to our court' issue. They will only accept home and homes with other major programs.
2. Revenue stream and being underfunded - home games are much less expensive when ADs are tightfisted, and the away venues tend to be smaller.
3. BE and AAC are now populated by a number of teams used to the mid-major regime of having to accept away only games and not being big enough 'draws' to demand reciprocal rights. And perhaps more sensitive to the plight of mid-majors. And less able to do the 'if you want to play us you have to come to our home court' thing.

The request - I would be curious for a comparison to home win percentages by conference to compare to the away win percentages - the variance between the two at a conference level would be interesting. And even more interesting to me would be that comparison within only conference games where the SOS should be pretty equal (most conference don't have a completely balanced schedule, but it is pretty close.)

 

[Orangutan]

yeah well you being a Duke fan, you should know what to expect from your coach. Tenn's coach has a team full of good players with high expectations really for the first time. give her another year.

Class of 2011 rankings by Hoopgurlz - Burdick #3, Massengale #4, Harrison #29

She has had good players, or at least players that were perceived to be good before arriving in Knoxville, before.

 

[UcMiami]

Unfortunately for Duke and TN visitors,
I think both of those teams for the past number of years have done less with more HS rated talent than any other teams. Some allowance for bad luck in injuries, but it still doesn't explain the results and it isn't just the results, but the quality of the play.

 

[uconnever]

Class of 2011 rankings by Hoopgurlz - Burdick #3, Massengale #4, Harrison #29

She has had good players, or at least players that were perceived to be good before arriving in Knoxville, before.

Yes ranking wise they were supposed to be good players, but I watched them play plenty and they were not good players. I see at least 3 to 4 good to great players on her team this year. Diamond,Tea and Mercedes are players that anyone can see have a chance to be really good. I think Nared is a solid piece. If things are not vastly improved by the end of next year, make a coaching change.

 

[trb123]

A lot of sense:

http://www.holdsclaw.com/blog/theres-no-i-in-lady-volunteers

 

[meyers7]

i think she has been hurt alot and hasnt really been playing all that much. then you add all the new players and she needs time. from what i have always seen from her as talented as she is, she is just streaky anyways. maybe im wrong and i dont like Tenn....im all Uconn, but im fair and Holly and the team deserve another year...at least.

Yes, yes. Holly deserves a life time contract.

 

[jsloanjr]

Totally agree with all the post above and most AD's are spineless with Women's coaches.........Gender thing or they afraid of lawsuits......Tenn and Duke have deserved better for the past 5+ years. Take action It affects all WCBB.......