Drummond big night

[Chin Diesel]

Admittedly, I didn't watch a lot of Nuggets back in the day but what I saw was team ball, iirc. I think it's harsh to paint English with selfish Carmelo's brush.

If you look at their career numbers, they are nearly identical. I would say in English's prime his job was to be the scorer. There wasn't much of an expectation for him to facilitate the offense or start the offense. I'd have to look at longer clips, but I'd bet a medium black coffee that English dribbled a lot less than Carmelo and had the ball in his possession a lot less than Carmelo.

 

[Waquoit]

If you look at their career numbers, they are nearly identical. I would say in English's prime his job was to be the scorer.

I guess my point was so subtle it only bothered me. Like you said it was his job to score, not facilitate. But when you a hear a guy described as "didn't make anyone else better" (even if technically true), I go right to selfish ballplayer. Like Melo or Iverson. Not a guy like English who was only doing his job..

 

[Chin Diesel]

I guess my point was so subtle it only bothered me. Like you said it was his job to score, not facilitate. But when you a hear a guy described as "didn't make anyone else better" (even if technically true), I go right to selfish ballplayer. Like Melo or Iverson. Not a guy like English who was only doing his job..

Fair enough. And I do understand the differences you are referencing.

My bigger point is if you accumulate enough stats you are getting in to the Hall of Fame regardless of whether your teammates better or win championships. And I also understand just because you make the HoF doesn't mean you are equal to everyone else in there. There's still a pecking order in that elite group.

 

[navery12]

I can't believe there's a real debate here about Andre Drummond and the HOF. This is Jim and Buddy Boeheim level of rose colored glasses

 

[Matrim55]

Carmelo played in 77 playoff games, Alex English played in 68 playoff games, Drummond has played in 8 playoff games.

Alex English was an 8 time all-star, and 3 time second team all NBA. Melo a 10 time all-star, 2 time second team all NBA, and 4 time third team all NBA. Drummond 2 time all star and 1 time third team all NBA.

Take off the Husky colored glasses

This is why I'm dying for Drummond to move to the Mavs. If he puts up these kinds of counting numbers on a winning team, he will make multiple All-Star teams and All-NBA teams. And given the way the Mavs play -- tons of shooters and lots of offensive rebounds -- Andre is perfect there.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

it's a blur. they're all seemingly statistically the same, marshmellow, english, adrian dantly, mark aguire, and the other one, and the other one, ... give me paul pierce over the lot of them. we finally gave up the knicks season tix after having to watch the 'where the ball goes to die guy' for too many years, and no reasonable expectation for change after decades of knicks nonsense. the soundtrack to that horror movie? 'yo!' 'streets!' 'represent!' 'our house!' 'shoes!' 'mellow saves the world!' and on and on. ridiculous, pathetic, losing. we'd go to the game at hype central, with evidence based fear that we, when all the talk was done, would be spending a few hours stuck watching the 'where the ball goes to die guy' ad nauseum. when we saw him a half dozen or so times in the denver, at least he moved around the floor a bit. to this day, the nix are still marshmellow culture, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. and then jeremy lin - 'yo!' 'streets!' 'represent!' 'our house!' 'shoes!' 'jeremy saves the world!' lin-sanity! however, mr. anthony the businessperson was a genius, taking that shtick to nyc, and getting max cash for his circus, so there's that.

 

[Chief00]

It’s hard to predict this because this is probably his last year of making 20+ million per year and on a team where he is a main option on offense. And when he finally gets to a good team he may not play enough minutes for the next several years to average the same kind of absurd rebounding numbers. He will still end up high on the list of all time rebounders but that may not be enough for the hall of fame unless he has post-season success somewhere.

He needs to win some playoff games and win conference if not league Championships. Rebounding is being undervalued. The lack of it, killed to Celtics last season.

 

[Chin Diesel]

This is what some on this message board miss.

He is a historically great rebounder.

Not good. Not very good. Not elite. In the history of the NBA his numbers are phenomenal.


And as a Sixers fan in the 8/'s, thank goodness for Moses and the Fo, Fo, Fo.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

This is what some on this message board miss.

He is a historically great rebounder.

Not good. Not very good. Not elite. In the history of the NBA his numbers are phenomenal.


And as a Sixers fan in the 8/'s, thank goodness for Moses and the Fo, Fo, Fo.

Very arguably the greatest rebounder of all time. His rebound % is over a full point higher than second place Rodman, who is over 1.5% higher than 3rd place. Crazy.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Very arguably the greatest rebounder of all time. His rebound % is over a full point higher than second place Rodman, who is over 1.5% higher than 3rd place. Crazy.

Chamberlain and Russell are the two greatest and after that there is a huge drop off before anyone else enters the conversation.

 

[methodology]

His rebounding dominance will have him in the HOF discussion those discounting that aren’t understanding how much better of a rebounder he has been than anyone in the NBA during his career and in the history of the NBA

He needs to keep it going for another 7-8 years however

 

[Palatine]

Russell and Wilt are the top by far in both rebounds per game and rebounds per minute.

But Drummond is in great company (top ten all time) for rebounds per game.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Rebounds Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the complete list of NBA & ABACareer Leaders and Records for and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Chamberlain and Russell are the two greatest and after that there is a huge drop off before anyone else enters the conversation.

The rebound statistics of the early NBA are probably the most skewed stat in NBA history. Pace and the height discrepancy make it very flawed. Rebound % and Rebound rate are key stats.

 

[Palatine]

The rebound statistics of the early NBA are probably the most skewed stat in NBA history. Pace and the height discrepancy make it very flawed. Rebound % and Rebound rate are key stats.

Yeah, but imagine the numbers if Wilt was a one-and-done and he didn't play a year with the Globe Trotters. That would have extended his his career 4 years in his prime.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Can someone explain to me how Andre is always top 5 or so in defensive rating and defensive win shares? All the analysts say he isn’t a great defender and such and such, but this is the second team he’s on where he exhibits this, so it probably isn’t the system. Is the idea he isn’t a great defender just something people have accepted without much research?

 

[Ratso]

he’s not a starter?

 

[superjohn]

Can someone explain to me how Andre is always top 5 or so in defensive rating and defensive win shares? All the analysts say he isn’t a great defender and such and such, but this is the second team he’s on where he exhibits this, so it probably isn’t the system. Is the idea he isn’t a great defender just something people have accepted without much research?

That's a very good point and I don't understand it either. He's hands down the best rebounder in the league and is always top 5 in defensive rating and has led the league several times in it and the way people talk about him certainly doesn't match what he does on the court. The guy gets crapped on more than anyone in the league partly because the game has changed so much, people don't like the way he plays, they always want more from him, and he was on a talentless Detroit team.

 

[caw]

Can someone explain to me how Andre is always top 5 or so in defensive rating and defensive win shares? All the analysts say he isn’t a great defender and such and such, but this is the second team he’s on where he exhibits this, so it probably isn’t the system. Is the idea he isn’t a great defender just something people have accepted without much research?

I think, and I have not really paid attention to stats recently due to other obligations, the idea is he has great counting statistics which skew his actual defensive ability. Mainly, he does not protect the rim well (gives up too many layups/dunks even when he contests), he gets lost on defense, and gambles too much. I think there are some advanced metrics that do back up that eye-test.

That said, IMO, those stats are also flawed because Dre uses his absurd athletic ability almost as well as any NBA player in the game to hedge/rotate/gamble for steals and it is because of his athleticism he can get away with the gambles most bigs just could not even attempt. He also recovers better than most bigs and challenges a number of shots others couldn't, which hurts his rim protection metrics (IIRC). He also gets dinged by some pundits for his relatively poor boxout technique (like he needs it).

IMO, his only real flaw right now is he really is a poor shooter and a surprisingly bad finisher near the rim. I think his athletic ability also hinders him a bit here. He tries too much near the rim. Where other bigs may just try to dunk the ball, he tries to hard to get a fancy layup. While his jumpshot looks much improved he just should never be taking a three, IDK how coaches allow him to ever take one with more than 1 second on the clock. Kudos to him though for adjusting his FT% after his first 4-5 years. He has been consistently above 50% for years now.

One thing Dre does not get enough credit for is his screening. Not only is he just big, but he takes good angles on the screens these days. He is fantastic with a PnR PG. If you look at the PGs he has played with, it is truly criminal how wasted Dre has been on offense in this regard. Arguably the best PG he played with was about a season with Reggie Jackson, for any big not named Jokic, that would kill the bigs offense and possibly his career.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Can someone explain to me how Andre is always top 5 or so in defensive rating and defensive win shares? All the analysts say he isn’t a great defender and such and such, but this is the second team he’s on where he exhibits this, so it probably isn’t the system. Is the idea he isn’t a great defender just something people have accepted without much research?

I think rebounding factors into those stats.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Can someone explain to me how Andre is always top 5 or so in defensive rating and defensive win shares? All the analysts say he isn’t a great defender and such and such, but this is the second team he’s on where he exhibits this, so it probably isn’t the system. Is the idea he isn’t a great defender just something people have accepted without much research?

currently, he is 7th in steals for this season. 6th last season and 5th the year before.
in the entire nba. six straight years in top 20.
seven years for top 20 in blocks, too.
this stuff starts to add up, metrically speaking.

 

[Ratso]

drummond’s pissed that he’s in sexland

 

[superjohn]

NBA Player Surprises Middletown Elementary Students with 300 Winter Coats

300 students from Bielefield Elementary School in Middletown received winter coats gifted by an anonymous NBA player.

www.nbcconnecticut.com