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dook has become Kentucky

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Anytime this subject comes up and people mention anything along the lines of "yea and all that talent and they lost last X years in the tourney" is the easiest way to weed out the true idiots.

Forgot about all those non-one and done schools winning titles every year, sometimes even winning two titles in a year maybe. Maybe 3?
While I agree it takes talent like this to win a title, it's extremely hard to win a title with more than 1 or 2 one and dones in your starting line up. Kentucky has tried it for like 10 straight years now and has one title, even though they're rated very highly every year in the preseason. The key is to keep some of these guys more than 1 year.

And yes, I wish we had these problems right now!
 

intlzncster

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While I agree it takes talent like this to win a title, it's extremely hard to win a title with more than 1 or 2 one and dones in your starting line up. Kentucky has tried it for like 10 straight years now and has one title, even though they're rated very highly every year in the preseason. The key is to keep some of these guys more than 1 year.

And yes, I wish we had these problems right now!

And the other side of that, as Nova's been showing the last few years, it pays to have a bunch of experienced, quality players at most positions.
 

whaler11

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To be fair, they had 4 Final Fours, and 2 Final games and a ton of conference championships before he showed up. Plus, the advantage of the Duke academic rep.

But he did create the brand that we know as Duke basketball today.

They had a good run in the early 60’s. Got to three Final Fours beating road apples like UConn.

They were headed towards where Duke’s football program ended up and then he went 998-271.

Is the next argument that Dean Smith got fat off the Carolina brand?
 
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It has been going on, but they’ve definitely taken it up a notch the last 2-3 years, where it’s really them and UK doing this consistently.

I’ll continue to say this is a recipe for coming up short of expectations. It’s tough to turn down talent, but the ideal rosters have 1-2 of these guys at most, with a varying mix of good upperclassmen.

Is this particular recruiting strategy a recipe for coming up short of expectations, or is coaching a college basketball team in the first place a recipe for doing that? It isn't as if Duke and Kentucky have struggled. They're both generally ranked in the top ten and in the conversation for a top seed by selection Sunday. Once you get to the tournament, there's a lot of luck involved.

It's definitely an imperfect philosophy to rely on freshman every year, but the flip side to that would be relying on kids who aren't as talented. Ask Virginia, Kansas, Arizona, Gonzaga, and until recently, Nova, about how reliable that approach is. Sometimes you do sign four year players and it just doesn't work out - look no further than Grayson Allen, who was supposed to be the veteran presence they needed to bust through until he wasn't (incidentally, he did come through as an untested freshman - sometimes you just don't know). Obviously if you can build a roster around multiple five star recruits who stay for three or four years, you do it, but it can be hard to forecast ahead of time who those players are going to be.
 

intlzncster

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They had a good run in the early 60’s. Got to three Final Fours beating road apples like UConn.

They were headed towards where Duke’s football program ended up and then he went 998-271.

Is the next argument that Dean Smith got fat off the Carolina brand?

They were regular season conference champions the year before he got there. They were conference tournament champs 2 years before he got there.

I mean, they even went to the Final game in the NCAAs 2 years before he got there.

That's hardly on the verge of falling into irrelevance. He walked into a winner, and turned it in to a goshdarn juggernaut. He deserves all the credit in the world, but let's not pretend he took over some moribund regional school.

They struggled in the mid 70s, but had turned it around before he arrived.
 
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Mr. French

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Is this particular recruiting strategy a recipe for coming up short of expectations, or is coaching a college basketball team in the first place a recipe for doing that? It isn't as if Duke and Kentucky have struggled. They're both generally ranked in the top ten and in the conversation for a top seed by selection Sunday. Once you get to the tournament, there's a lot of luck involved.

It's definitely an imperfect philosophy to rely on freshman every year, but the flip side to that would be relying on kids who aren't as talented. Ask Virginia, Kansas, Arizona, Gonzaga, and until recently, Nova, about how reliable that approach is. Sometimes you do sign four year players and it just doesn't work out - look no further than Grayson Allen, who was supposed to be the veteran presence they needed to bust through until he wasn't (incidentally, he did come through as an untested freshman - sometimes you just don't know). Obviously if you can build a roster around multiple five star recruits who stay for three or four years, you do it, but it can be hard to forecast ahead of time who those players are going to be.

Totally agree. That’s why if you’re in that position as a coach and roster-builder, it is a tough situation.

At the same time, if you have the pick of almost every player, sometimes it might be more prudent to fill 1-2 spots with 4* or lower 5* that aren’t essentially guaranteed to leave.

I understand it’s not cut and dry, just that I think it’s got to be a consideration. The counter to my own argument is that if you have the chance for THIS YEAR to choose 1-2 studs and you willingly choose 2 guys who aren’t as talented, you may risk losing that year. I get it.

I just know the IDEAL is to get the guys like a freshman Bazz, a freshman Brunson, even our favorite Grayson...those guys were good enough to be factors ASAP but also going to stay and develop.

I’m not trying to say anything earth shattering. I get why you’d choose the 5 best guys in the country if possible.
 

whaler11

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They were regular season conference champions the year before he got there. They were conference tournament champs 2 years before he got there.

I mean, they even went to the Final game in the NCAAs 2 years before he got there.

That's hardly on the verge of falling into irrelevance. He walked into a winner, and turned it in to a juggernaut. He deserves all the credit in the world, but let's not pretend he took over some moribund regional school.

They struggled in the mid 70s, but had turned it around before he arrived.

Moribund regional school? No.

You see any other school with a profile like Duke’s that has competed like they have for decades?

You’ve got the last 5 years of Jay Wright at Nova as the only thing that comes close and that’s 20% of what K accomplished.

He beat giants of coaching who died decades ago and is still beating the kids today.

There are people in their mid 30’s that don’t remember them beating UNLV.
 

gtcam

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With Carter Jr likely to leave and the Gaza Tripper graduating, that's your entire starting lineup not back next year. Top 5 players leaving. lol
Yeah but with their recruiting class they will be in the top 10
Don't agree with the recruiting style but K has to get the top players and all these guys are 1 and dones
I wouldn't like to see UConn turn in this type of factory but the winning is nice
 

intlzncster

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Moribund regional school? No.

You see any other school with a profile like Duke’s that has competed like they have for decades?

You’ve got the last 5 years of Jay Wright at Nova as the only thing that comes close and that’s 20% of what K accomplished.

He beat giants of coaching who died decades ago and is still beating the kids today.

There are people in their mid 30’s that don’t remember them beating UNLV.


As I said above, he deserves all the credit in the world. He took over a winning program and "turned them into a goshdarn juggernaut". Like nothing anyone else has seen in the modern game. Far more impressive (to me) than Wooden's UCLA period.
 

gtcam

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Coach K has completely discredited himself as a basketball coach. Remember the commercial from years back when he said, "I'm not a basketball coach. I'm a leader who happens to coach basketball." I used to shout at the screen, "You're a basketball coach, you rat-faced twerp." Turns out he's not a basketball coach, either, never mind a leader.. He's an opportunist using the Duke brand in the hope of striking gold. That is all that's left of the revered Coach K.
Can't agree with this at all
I abhor Duke but K has built a brand that recruits with it's name and to remain at the level that the brand has developed he needs the top players
He's a coach all right but he has become a complainer and that is bothersome
 

whaler11

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As I said above, he deserves all the credit in the world. He took over a winning program and "turned them into a goshdarn juggernaut". Like nothing anyone else has seen in the modern game. Far more impressive (to me) than Wooden's UCLA period.

Whatever moran ;)
 
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This has got to start negatively affecting their APR
You’d think, but the NCAA just accepts whatever they’re told by certain schools. Fake classes? No worries. Team full of 1&dones? They all stay through 2nd semester I’m sure. Students first, amirite?
 

whaler11

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You’d think, but the NCAA just accepts whatever they’re told by certain schools. Fake classes? No worries. Team full of 1&dones? They all stay through 2nd semester I’m sure. Students first, amirite?

Literally everyone in the world but UConn understands how college sports work.

We get the rubes who publish legit numbers and then trash the football program because we hired an AD to impress the NCAA with his mastery of fixing the APR.

Maybe the keystone rent a cops can arrest half the team on spring weekend to dial up the difficulty.
 
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Certainly I think we would all agree it would make our lives as UConn fans a lot more exciting to have this turnstile of 5*’s coming in and out year after year while making deep or semi-deep runs in the tourney and winning our conference. I just wonder once some time has passed what will be remembered. Will many of those guys have made lasting impacts on the culture of the school? Will they be thought of with the same reverence as the guys that stayed for multiple runs? Will they be considered all-timers like some that came before? I ask because I’m genuinely curious. I look at Andre, and think of a guy who bleeds blue more than most but of course look back at his time here with a whole lot of meh. Obviously that would be drastically different had they managed to accomplish our loftier goals. Anyway, I guess it would be a happy problem to have, idk?
 
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It's an 'astounded' laugh, rather than 'ha ha look at them'. Part of it includes the fact that they lose 5 starters, gain the Top 3 recruits, and will be in the Top 10 again. crazy

Duke done gone and perfected Cal's system.

Not even top 10. They're the betting favorites for next year.
 
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While I agree it takes talent like this to win a title, it's extremely hard to win a title with more than 1 or 2 one and dones in your starting line up. Kentucky has tried it for like 10 straight years now and has one title, even though they're rated very highly every year in the preseason. The key is to keep some of these guys more than 1 year.

And yes, I wish we had these problems right now!

And Kentucky has also been to the final 4 four times and the title game twice since Cal got there. There's like 4 other programs that have been as successful in the tourney over that timeframe (us included).
 

Huskyforlife

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I'd hate to have great players, what fun is that? Watching my favorite team be top 25 good every year would get so boring, I'm glad we've taken a break from blue blood status, personally.
 

temery

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They had a good run in the early 60’s. Got to three Final Fours beating road apples like UConn.

They were headed towards where Duke’s football program ended up and then he went 998-271.

Is the next argument that Dean Smith got fat off the Carolina brand?


He got lucky
 
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Yup and just like Kentucky they come up short in March most of the time because of inexperience.

3 more one and dones coming in next season.
Exactly. The one and done route is not the way to go.
 

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