Donovan is reprehensible

[Ozzie Nelson]

I can't figure out what Donovan has done to earn and keep her job...I must be missing something.

 

[JoePgh]

If Tina really said that the only place she would play is for the Liberty, then it is astonishing that the Sun were able to obtain as much value as they did for her. When I heard what they got, I assumed that the Liberty had to bid against other teams for Tina's services. If that is not the case, then I don't understand why they gave up two #1 draft picks and a center with some upside (??).

Remember that when Katie Douglas was "traded" to Indiana several years ago, all that the Sun got in compensation was an over-the-hill forward who contributed little or nothing, and played for the Sun only one year as I recall. Since Katie was determined at the time to play in only one place, that is the best that the Sun could do.

So perhaps we should salute the Sun's management for getting as much as they got for Tina.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

That is quitting. It is refusing to play. What is that other than quitting. She would receive no compensation just like you.

My poorly put out thought is that apparently she can afford to just sit out whereas I can't. In general I'm just tired of athletes who think rules and contracts don't apply to them. She signed a contract now play. Ask for a trade, but don't hold them hostage. Back to my Eli comment. He should be happy to be drafted into the NFL but instead refuses to play for San Diego. It's that kind of stuff that turns me off.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

But more importantly, whew. I thought maybe you were caught up in some kind of slave trade or indentured servitude.

Sometimes it feels like I am. In reality I'm slightly above indetured servitude, but not by much.

 

[DishNSwish]

I can't figure out what Donovan has done to earn and keep her job...I must be missing something.

Won a WNBA championship, beating Connecticut? Won a gold medal as head coach? Have we forgotten about that?

Every coach has years of success and years of less success.

One year, without Asjha Jones on that team from the beginning, and then the injuries, is too small a sample to just get rid of a coach that they thought was capable of taking the team higher.

Now if she fails to develop over the course of this season the talent she has been given and the team doesn't progress, then it's a different matter.

To me, Kelsey Bone is the key component. She is coming off a Euro League championship in which she had a very good season. Donovan got her rep as a post coach; let's see.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

My poorly put out thought is that apparently she can afford to just sit out whereas I can't. In general I'm just tired of athletes who think rules and contracts don't apply to them. She signed a contract now play. Ask for a trade, but don't hold them hostage. Back to my Eli comment. He should be happy to be drafted into the NFL but instead refuses to play for San Diego. It's that kind of stuff that turns me off.

Why can't he choose who he wants to play for? As for contracts, well, do coaches ever leave a team/contract to go elsewhere?

 

[01Neaggrad02]

I can't do it in my work place and she shouldn't be able to do it there. You can ask for a trade, but you play your best until it happens.

If you do not like your job, or your boss you can quit and find another job elsewhere. Lets say you are a nurse, you hate the hospital you are at... you quit and instead of working for Hartford Hospital you work at St. Francis. You still have a chance to do the job you love.

Tina can't quit her job with the Connecticut Sun. She is forced to play. She cannot quit and then sign with the Liberty. This is in no way, shape, or form anything similar to your work place. Also if a player ask for a trade, why would you keep them, or resist that trade?

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Won a WNBA championship, beating Connecticut? Won a gold medal as head coach? Have we forgotten about that?

Every coach has years of success and years of less success.

One year, without Asjha Jones on that team from the beginning, and then the injuries, is too small a sample to just get rid of a coach that they thought was capable of taking the team higher.

Now if she fails to develop over the course of this season the talent she has been given and the team doesn't progress, then it's a different matter.

To me, Kelsey Bone is the key component. She is coming off a Euro League championship in which she had a very good season. Donovan got her rep as a post coach; let's see.

Thanks for that. Sorry to say, I do not see her as a coach who has command of her team.

 

[PacoSwede]

Sometimes it feels like I am. In reality I'm slightly above indetured servitude, but not by much.

So ... because some people aren't in your situation, you despise them. Why don't you blame yourself for your situation, or at least despise those who apparently have your fate in their hands? Why take it out on those who are able to avoid your sorry state? Why do people always displace the blame?

 

[k9fanatic]

My poorly put out thought is that apparently she can afford to just sit out whereas I can't. In general I'm just tired of athletes who think rules and contracts don't apply to them. She signed a contract now play. Ask for a trade, but don't hold them hostage. Back to my Eli comment. He should be happy to be drafted into the NFL but instead refuses to play for San Diego. It's that kind of stuff that turns me off.

Keep in mind that all the "information" has come from the Sun. I doubt Donovan and company have gone out of their way to portray the situation in a fair and impartial manner. Maybe it's best to wait to hear Tina's side before casting aspersions.

I'm thinking that maybe one of Tina's conditions was the absence of Donovan, which the Sun obviously did not meet.

 

[Waquoit]

I can't figure out what Donovan has done to earn and keep her job...I must be missing something.

She was hired by a GM who won't/can't admit a huge mistake.

 

[UcMiami]

My poorly put out thought is that apparently she can afford to just sit out whereas I can't. In general I'm just tired of athletes who think rules and contracts don't apply to them. She signed a contract now play. Ask for a trade, but don't hold them hostage. Back to my Eli comment. He should be happy to be drafted into the NFL but instead refuses to play for San Diego. It's that kind of stuff that turns me off.

Problem is she is not actually under contract - she played out her rookie contract and is now a 'restricted' free agent. As such, if she just signed a contract with NY the Sun could match and bring her back. What she said is ... I will not sign a contract to play this year unless you trade my rights. And while there is some glory playing in the W, the majority of the money any player makes is made by playing overseas. And there are no other team athletes that in order to make decent money have to play two seasons every year. These are world class athletes that have maybe a ten year window before they need to find a new career and none of them are making silly money. And they live the life of journeymen - four months here, 8 month in some foreign city, but most of their life in hotel rooms. Geno makes more than any off them, getting to live a life in one place year around, and with a career that he can keep as long as he wants, and walk away when he wants. All of these athletes are one second away from a career ending injury and 80% of them are one signing away from being unemployed and a few years away from being unemployable.

 

[DishNSwish]

What seems to be overlooked is Tina Charles is a member of the player's union, who collectively bargained this deal that allows restricted free agency vs unrestricted vs cored players.

You get the benefits of the union, you pay the consequences of being in the union.

She doesn't want the consequences, which include honoring your contract in Connecticut if they are to match the deal she signs elsewhere. All she can do is threaten to withhold service, which she has done.

She is far from alone, and she will be joining one of the originals to force her way out of town, Cappie Pondexter.

You really can't compare a collectively bargained contract to you or me or anyone else not in that union.

Example, if a doctor wants to leave St. Francis or Hartford Hospital as mentioned above, they may have a non-compete that allows them to practice in another state but not Connecticut.

 

[Waquoit]

...They're young, but they will be fun to watch and have dynamic personalities.

Reminds me of the year Mike T. cut loose a bunch and the Sun had players like Le'Coe Willingham, Jen Derevjanik, Candice Futrell and some point guard named Whalen...

"Fun to watch" are words used by losing franchises to try to sell tickets. But you know what's really fun to watch? Your team winning. I guess you're in the biz so I imagine carrying some water is good for business. But to continue talking about how players "didn't want to be here" without adding insight on why these players felt that way is kinda lame. And so is ignoring the badmouthing from the Sun on their way out the door.

And you are comparing "players like Le'Coe Willingham, Jen Derevjanik" to an MVP? Really? And can you honestly call trading Whalen for Charles "cutting loose"?

 

[meyers7]

Sometimes it feels like I am. In reality I'm slightly above indetured servitude, but not by much.

You gotta look for a new job. (I know, I know, it ain't easy.)

 

[DishNSwish]

"Fun to watch" are words used by losing franchises to try to sell tickets. But you know what's really fun to watch? Your team winning. I guess you're in the biz so I imagine carrying some water is good for business. But to continue talking about how players "didn't want to be here" without adding insight on why these players felt that way is kinda lame. And so is ignoring the badmouthing from the Sun on their way out the door.

And you are comparing "players like Le'Coe Willingham, Jen Derevjanik" to an MVP? Really? And can you honestly call trading Whalen for Charles "cutting loose"?

Listen, my last words because I don't like where this is going and I certainly don't appreciate the insinuations made towards me..

I was a season ticket holder for the Connecticut Sun well before I began covering the team. My daughter, wife and I LOVED Pee Wee Johnson and those teams. But they got stagnant and change was needed. We LOVED the enthusiasm and hustle of the young players that cared about being in Connecticut and cared about having the opportunity to play in front of passionate fans.

I don't just see things in Husky Blue and white, I see them in cream and orange, as in WNBA ball colors. My complaint last year about the Sun was not only weren't they good, they were BORING to watch. No enthusiasm, no excitement, just going through the motions. That's why I enjoyed Mistie Bass so much, she gave it all, all the time.

So yes, I am saying that fun to watch is important and caring about being there manifests itself in the approach. It is a BIG part of the fan experience that makes the WNBA enjoyable.

Regarding WHY the players not wanting to be here, honestly, is irrelevant to the conversation. Whether they hate Donovan, love Thibault, don't like playing in a casino, don't like the fact you have to drive a half hour to get anywhere from out there, or if they don't like the questions the media asks, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE and it shows in their approach to the game and their approach to the fans.

I actually like the fact the Sun said she demanded a trade or she'd sit out. Why should they lie or cover it up?

Where did I say Whalen was cut loose by the way? That was a fair trade that benefited both teams.

By the way, I've never claimed Donovan or Sun management is innocent in this whole thing either. It takes two to tango.

 

[meyers7]

What seems to be overlooked is Tina Charles is a member of the player's union, who collectively bargained this deal that allows restricted free agency vs unrestricted vs cored players.

You get the benefits of the union, you pay the consequences of being in the union.

She doesn't want the consequences, which include honoring your contract in Connecticut if they are to match the deal she signs elsewhere. All she can do is threaten to withhold service, which she has done.

Yes, she was willing to pay the consequences. She was willing to sit out as opposed to signing a "new" contract with the Sun. She honored her contract. She just didn't want a new one with them.

The Sun was smart in trading her rights. And getting something for them.

 

[DishNSwish]

Yes, she was willing to pay the consequences. She was willing to sit out as opposed to signing a "new" contract with the Sun. She honored her contract. She just didn't want a new one with them.

The Sun was smart in trading her rights. And getting something for them.

EXACTLY!

 

[Waquoit]

I don't just see things in Husky Blue and white, I see them in cream and orange, as in WNBA ball colors
.
Where did I say Whalen was cut loose by the way? That was a fair trade that benefited both teams.

FWIW, this isn't a UConn issue in my mind. Where Charles went to college is irrelevant. This is about running a franchise into the ground. I was a big Thibault fan.

Going back, I read "Reminds me of the year Mike T. cut loose a bunch and the Sun had players like Le'Coe Willingham, Jen Derevjanik, Candice Futrell and some point guard named Whalen" incorrectly. My bad.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

So ... because some people aren't in your situation, you despise them. Why don't you blame yourself for your situation, or at least despise those who apparently have your fate in their hands? Why take it out on those who are able to avoid your sorry state? Why do people always displace the blame?

Paco, that was just meant as a comical reply to someone else, but thanks for chiming in. Just to reply, I blamed nobody. I just said I don't like when athletes threaten things like sitting out or refusing to play. That's it.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Why can't he choose who he wants to play for? As for contracts, well, do coaches ever leave a team/contract to go elsewhere?

They can choose in free agency, but not before the draft. I think you go where you're drafted. I don't like when coaches do it either, unless they have clauses where they can buy their freedom.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Problem is she is not actually under contract - she played out her rookie contract and is now a 'restricted' free agent. As such, if she just signed a contract with NY the Sun could match and bring her back. What she said is ... I will not sign a contract to play this year unless you trade my rights.

Thanks for the info. The Courant, from what I read, made it sound to me like she was refusing to play. I got the impressions she was under contract. I won't even pretend to understand the levels of free agency in any of the pro sports.

 

[UcMiami]

What seems to be overlooked is Tina Charles is a member of the player's union, who collectively bargained this deal that allows restricted free agency vs unrestricted vs cored players.

You get the benefits of the union, you pay the consequences of being in the union.

She doesn't want the consequences, which include honoring your contract in Connecticut if they are to match the deal she signs elsewhere. All she can do is threaten to withhold service, which she has done.

She is far from alone, and she will be joining one of the originals to force her way out of town, Cappie Pondexter.

You really can't compare a collectively bargained contract to you or me or anyone else not in that union.

Example, if a doctor wants to leave St. Francis or Hartford Hospital as mentioned above, they may have a non-compete that allows them to practice in another state but not Connecticut.

I really like your work and enjoy the comments here as well - a good perspective. I just have a small quibble here ...
I agree there are two things - contract and collective bargaining agreement and two sets of rules related to each. But the collective bargaining agreement does actually cover Tina's situation by making the rules of restricted free agency specific, as do other leagues collective bargaining agreements. A team whose restricted free agent player is not signed to a contract retains the rights to that player for one year. The player has the right to not sign any contract and sit out that year. I am sure there was back and forth in the negotiations of that collective bargaining agreement over what happened after that year and the players negotiated a removal of all restrictions. That does give players more power in Tina's situation and she chose to exercise that power. the cost to her would have been not unsubstantial in lost salary, the cost to the Sun would have been not unsubstantial in the ultimate loss of her talent.
The compromise for both was a trade.
I think Tina by not publicly saying 'I will only play in NY' treated the Sun more fairly than a lot of players have done in other sports by keeping that hidden. The Sun were in a better position re the Liberty because Bill didn't know there was no competition. Giving up the compensation he did does not make a whole lot of sense if he could wait one season and get Tina for free and have his two draft picks and Bone still around.

 

[pinotbear]

Thanks for the info. The Courant, from what I read, made it sound to me like she was refusing to play. I got the impressions she was under contract. I won't even pretend to understand the levels of free agency in any of the pro sports.

I would just add to this, to emphasize a point that UCMiami included in their post. For many WNBA players, particularly the "stars" like Charles, the WNBA is their second job, and a poor second job at that. They make much, much more money overseas, and the big stars have all kinds of perks included. Your point, Fairfield, about how they don't need their WNBA job like you need yours, is acccurate. Charles would do just fine, if she sat out what amounts to her "summer job". I think comparing a WNBA job to a "summer" or "seasonal" secondary job, as opposed to a "full-time/primary" job is pretty accurate: and, if you or I detested that secondary employer, for good reason or bad, we'd sit out too, if we could swing it. She can.

 

[DishNSwish]

I really like your work and enjoy the comments here as well - a good perspective. I just have a small quibble here ...
I agree there are two things - contract and collective bargaining agreement and two sets of rules related to each. But the collective bargaining agreement does actually cover Tina's situation by making the rules of restricted free agency specific, as do other leagues collective bargaining agreements. A team whose restricted free agent player is not signed to a contract retains the rights to that player for one year. The player has the right to not sign any contract and sit out that year. I am sure there was back and forth in the negotiations of that collective bargaining agreement over what happened after that year and the players negotiated a removal of all restrictions. That does give players more power in Tina's situation and she chose to exercise that power. the cost to her would have been not unsubstantial in lost salary, the cost to the Sun would have been not unsubstantial in the ultimate loss of her talent.
The compromise for both was a trade.
I think Tina by not publicly saying 'I will only play in NY' treated the Sun more fairly than a lot of players have done in other sports by keeping that hidden. The Sun were in a better position re the Liberty because Bill didn't know there was no competition. Giving up the compensation he did does not make a whole lot of sense if he could wait one season and get Tina for free and have his two draft picks and Bone still around.

Thank you for the kind words, and your post is really good; with one possible exception.

What makes you think that Charles (and Lawson) didn't make it clear to people they wanted to be traded (and to specific places)?

People in the DiMauro thread are jumping on the Sun statement they were blind-sided like it was a ridiculous statement, that even they knew Tina wanted out.

Don't your think she told people (and Lawson too)?

That's the one thing I'm saying about the deals, was considering past I want to be traded deals, I thought the Sun brought in some good return.