Donny Marshall, stfu | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Donny Marshall, stfu

champs99and04 said:
Pretty much my thoughts. Regional rivalries are the draw to college sports for me. When you start commercializing it to the extent that you're playing teams from Texas multiple times per year, it becomes the minor leagues. Even if we end up in the Big 10 or ACC, I have mixed feelings. It would be awesome as a UConn fan, but it still wouldn't feel right.

My point all along has been that if non-P5 schools are going to be ostracized from college sports, then I'm not really interested anyway. And as you put it, if that's inevitable, then I'd much rather bleed out in the Big East than the American. It'll never happen and probably shouldn't happen, but as a fan give me Providence, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and St. Johns tomorrow and I'll worry about the rest later.

If the P5 end up breaking off, I'll probably just end up throwing myself into hockey east and doing away with basketball and football.
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The ship has sailed for regional conferences.

I mean, what is the exact appeal of traveling to Illinois, Ohio, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Indiana, and soon probably Missouri?

That is what you are faced with.

Heck, even the B1G is more contiguous.
 
There are fair arguments on both sides. UConn has made a major football commitment that would be difficult to back away from at this point. We have no chance at getting into a P5 conference without improving football. I'm not so sure the Big East is going to maintain its current level in the future either because a basketball only conference may not be viable long term.
We have to give football one more shot. If the team quality doesn't improve dramatically in say 5 years then we can look at other options.
 
Time changes things.

What could be more of a fit than a New England regional league for us to dominate. We had that ... it was the wondrous Yankee Conference and we didn't win it all the time in every sport. We had a very good hoop run and played competitively in football ... built our Soccer up.

We outgrew it. University of Vermont is a wonderful school and great to visit. Just not a sports competition of ours except Hockey; and we might out-recruit them there in the near term. Maine? UNH? URI? See where this is going? BU doesn't play football any longer and their hoop had a guy named Pitino and then fell flat for decades.

The Big East pseudo Catholic league is solid today. But ... we all have to admit that UConn took a turn to a National brand in the mid 1990s. ONLY UConn can look at the 39 million in the northeastern US in New York and New England and pull the Brand out as a Blueblood College Athletics program matched by a rising top 25 Public. That is not where Butler is. Nor Creighton. Or Marquette. Solid Privates in Cities. Some of the rest can waiver dramatically. Our we a match for UCF and USF and Temple and Houston? probably more so than the City privates. And, I do think we can nudge our way into something better.

I don't think 65 remain in the P5.
 
upstater said:
How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?

People are missing the fact that a move to the BE insures permanent big subsidies at UConn, whereas the administration is hoping against hope that in 7 years, the subsidy issue can be put to rest for good.
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The cache will last because it doesn't matter how much money Northwestern gets from TV, it will never have the on court play, history or cache of a Villanova or Georgetown.

You seem hell bent on discrediting the Big East. I'm not sure why, but you have been since the start with your endless posts comparing the AAC with the Big East.

If it ever gets to the point where we are locked out of the P5, we will drop football (and other sports) in order to keep men's basketball in a good place.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
The cache will last because it doesn't matter how much money Northwestern gets from TV, it will never have the on court play, history or cache of a Villanova or Georgetown.

You seem hell bent on discrediting the Big East. I'm not sure why, but you have been since the start with your endless posts comparing the AAC with the Big East.

If it ever gets to the point where we are locked out of the P5, we will drop football (and other sports) in order to keep men's basketball in a good place.
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Endless posts, eh? I challenge you to find my last post comparing the AAC and Big East. It was possibly months ago and it surely said the BE blows the AAC out of the water basketball wise.

But polyannas like you can go on thinking $4m can compete with $50m, or $25m with $200m, but it's not going to happen.

Jay Wright will be coaching at Illinois in the future, the same way Buzz moved from Marquette to Virginia Tech. The writing is on the wall but you can't read it.
 
upstater said:
Endless posts, eh? I challenge you to find my last post comparing the AAC and Big East. It was possibly months ago and it surely said the BE blows the AAC out of the water basketball wise.

But polyannas like you can go on thinking $4m can compete with $50m, or $25m with $200m, but it's not going to happen.

Jay Wright will be coaching at Illinois in the future, the same way Buzz moved from Marquette to Virginia Tech. The writing is on the wall but you can't read it.
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You're intentionally misrepresenting my stance. Joining the Big East isn't an option, unless all other P5 football memberships are out the door.

I would obviously prefer a basketball only membership in the ACC over the Big East, but I tend to think that won't be an option.

What's your stance? If it becomes apparent a decade from now we have no shot at P5? Keep hemorrhaging money in pursuit of football? Or drop football and put basketball in the best position to succeed?

You're stating the Big East is far behind P5 in revenue. No kidding. Where does that leave UConn in 10 years though is the question.
 
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ConnHuskBask said:
You're intentionally misrepresenting my stance. Joining the Big East isn't an option, unless all other P5 football memberships are out the door.
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This is what I wrote in reply to the idea written by you that the BE will still be able to compete:

"How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?"

This was my original response. It didn't misrepresent you at all. I still think the BE schools will lose their coaches and thereby continuity and thereby decent players because they can't pay them. Recruiting will suffer--also the yearly per athlete fee of $5k (which is for all athletes) isn't paid out by them.

It will hurt them.

If in 10 years UConn isn't in a better situation, you will have to cut the subsidy, and no matter what non-P5 conference you're in, it will be the demise of UConn.

Only 2 things can stop this dreaded scenario:

1. UConn goes to a better conference
2. Football and the college TV bubble implode totally thereby ridding the P5 schools of their enormous advantage.
 
upstater said:
This is what I wrote in reply to the idea written by you that the BE will still be able to compete:

"How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?"

This was my original response. It didn't misrepresent you at all. I still think the BE schools will lose their coaches and thereby continuity and thereby decent players because they can't pay them. Recruiting will suffer--also the yearly per athlete fee of $5k (which is for all athletes) isn't paid out by them.

It will hurt them.

If in 10 years UConn isn't in a better situation, you will have to cut the subsidy, and no matter what non-P5 conference you're in, it will be the demise of UConn.

Only 2 things can stop this dreaded scenario:

1. UConn goes to a better conference
2. Football and the college TV bubble implode totally thereby ridding the P5 schools of their enormous advantage.
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Then I just disagree with your premise. I think a 3rd option is that we aren't in a P5 and that the model won't completely implode. I think this option is far more likely than 1 or 2.

At that point the Big East is a way better option that basketball in the AAC.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Then I just disagree with your premise. I think a 3rd option is that we aren't in a P5 and that the model won't completely implode. I think this option is far more likely than 1 or 2.

At that point the Big East is a way better option that basketball in the AAC.
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How are they going to keep their coaches? Recruit kids who are getting paid elsewhere? Use huge recruiting budgets to travel? Who is going to continue to watch them on FS1?
 
upstater said:
How are they going to keep their coaches? Recruit kids who are getting paid elsewhere? Use huge recruiting budgets to travel? Who is going to continue to watch them on FS1?
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You're only example of a coach leaving the league to go to a P5 has been Buzz Williams leaving Marquette for Virginia Tech. A move that was highly questioned by almost everyone at the time.

You're making the assumption that Big East schools won't trim their athletic departments in order to stay nationally competitive in basketball or simply fund at their current level. You're also making the assumption that P5 leagues are going to start paying kids more money in a rising cost of attendance and with that assuming Big East schools won't keep pace. Same with recruiting.

As far as watching them on FS1? If they keep putting kids in the NBA, making final 4s and having half the league in the top 25 it doesn't matter that much. It hasn't so far.

This all being said - my whole argument which you are seemingly ignoring - is that the Big East for basketball is better than the AAC for basketball, if we have to drop football. That's it.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Joining the Big East preemptively, ensures we have no shot at the P5 even if it slows the bleeding by a few years. In my opinion, the worst case is we drop football and then join the Big East for basketball. I still think in a world where the P5 breaks off, there is room for a Big East due to their on court performance and national cache. If we get to the point where we cut the subsidy, drop football and join the Big East for hoops, I still think we would have the ability to be playing on the highest level for championships.
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I understand that, which is why I don't expect it to happen (and nor should it). As an I-want-my-candy-now guy I'd prefer to be in the Big East yesterday, because it's basketball season and football isn't for another eight months. Agree with the rest of your post.
 
I have never posted about the whole CR topic so I apologize in advance if this sounds naïve but my question is - assuming a P5 bid is never happening, what is wrong with staying in the AAC for both basketball and football? In basketball, it has been proven that you don't need to be in the P5 to win (we did it in 2014). And I would rather compete and have a chance to win the AAC in football than be in the FCS or dropping football completely. I understand we would have to pull back on how much we are spending on football but I am sure we can make it work - other G5 schools do. I guess I am saying isn't a G5 conference better than FCS and certainly better than no football? Again, I may be missing an obvious point here.
 
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Marbles90 said:
I have never posted about the whole CR topic so I apologize in advance if this sounds naïve but my question is - assuming a P5 bid is never happening, what is wrong with staying in the AAC for both basketball and football? In basketball, it has been proven that you don't need to be in the P5 to win (we did it in 2014). And I would rather compete and have a chance to win the AAC in football than be in the FCS or dropping football completely. I understand we would have to pull back on how much we are spending on football but I am sure we can make it work - other G5 schools do. I guess I am saying isn't a G5 conference better than FCS and certainly better than no football? Again, I may be missing an obvious point here.
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I don't think it's as much as a UConn problem as it is a problem for all AAC members. A lot of members, specifically I remember Houston was cited, are spending bucks they simply don't have to hopefully move up in the short term.

It's really just a question of how long UConn wants to run the subsidy (around $25M-$30M yearly) to support FBS football, basketball and a full fledged athletic department. If there is no gold at the end of the rainbow, I think the AAC schools all may decrease funding.

I agree with you that dropping football would suck, but I think at the end of the day, I would rather 1 program compete on the highest level than 2 on a JV level.
 
We keep mentioning the BE as a possibility but what makes anyone think that they want a state university with one eye on the door?
 
Danzz said:
We keep mentioning the BE as a possibility but what makes anyone think that they want a state university with one eye on the door?
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Which is why it would only be an option if we dropped football.
 
upstater said:
Endless posts, eh? I challenge you to find my last post comparing the AAC and Big East. It was possibly months ago and it surely said the BE blows the AAC out of the water basketball wise.

But polyannas like you can go on thinking $4m can compete with $50m, or $25m with $200m, but it's not going to happen.

Jay Wright will be coaching at Illinois in the future, the same way Buzz moved from Marquette to Virginia Tech. The writing is on the wall but you can't read it.
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But we get less in the AAC than 4 million , so how does anything you say after that hold water?
 
I have to think the NBE is pretty damn happy with their current conference arrangement. Not saying they wouldn't take UConn but compared to 4 years ago it would be a spirited discussion. The coaches seem adamant about keeping the round robin, so if it were to ever happen I would think that only one team gets added and it would have to be only someone of a UConn brand (basketball 1st) As long as UConn, It's fans, administration and Board of Trustees pine away for P5 inclusion and football glory, it's not happening.

I do think the one thing that is a problem for UConn as related to its current situation is home attendance for conference games that no one seems to give two craps about. Tickets are still a big part of revenue for the athletic department, outside the elusive TV $.

PS. Jay Wright is not going to leave Nova for Illinois. Buzz Williams was pulling some crap at Marquette and they reigned him in, forcing his hand. Comparing that situation with Jay Wright is asinine.
 
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Danzz said:
We keep mentioning the BE as a possibility but what makes anyone think that they want a state university with one eye on the door?
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They do. Right now.
In 4 years. Maybe not.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
You're only example of a coach leaving the league to go to a P5 has been Buzz Williams leaving Marquette for Virginia Tech. A move that was highly questioned by almost everyone at the time.

You're making the assumption that Big East schools won't trim their athletic departments in order to stay nationally competitive in basketball or simply fund at their current level. You're also making the assumption that P5 leagues are going to start paying kids more money in a rising cost of attendance and with that assuming Big East schools won't keep pace. Same with recruiting.

As far as watching them on FS1? If they keep putting kids in the NBA, making final 4s and having half the league in the top 25 it doesn't matter that much. It hasn't so far.

This all being said - my whole argument which you are seemingly ignoring - is that the Big East for basketball is better than the AAC for basketball, if we have to drop football. That's it.
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I din't disagree with the idea that the BE is better. not at all. Never did. I was just responding to the idea that the BE will be OK. I don't think it will. And we are just starting on this path. I never said that the BE would instantly sink. But coaches earning $3-4m a year are hard to move. Coaches earning $1-2m a year will take off.

I think my assumptions about the P5 paying kids is right in keeping with reality. They are already doing it.
 
superjohn said:
He also compared Buzz's situation at Marquette to Jay Wright's at Nova, lol.
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You get my point.

Iillnois will be taking Villanova's coach, for a simple reason. They can pay 2x as much.
 
FriarJ said:
I have to think the NBE is pretty damn happy with their current conference arrangement. Not saying they wouldn't take UConn but compared to 4 years ago it would be a spirited discussion. The coaches seem adamant about keeping the round robin, so if it were to ever happen I would think that only one team gets added and it would have to be only someone of a UConn brand (basketball 1st) As long as UConn, It's fans, administration and Board of Trustees pine away for P5 inclusion and football glory, it's not happening.

I do think the one thing that is a problem for UConn as related to its current situation is home attendance for conference games that no one seems to give two craps about. Tickets are still a big part of revenue for the athletic department, outside the elusive TV $.

PS. Jay Wright is not going to leave Nova for Illinois. Buzz Williams was pulling some crap at Marquette and they reigned him in, forcing his hand. Comparing that situation with Jay Wright is asinine.
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You're whistling past the graveyard. In 10 years, both the BE and the AAC will be suffering badly at the current rate of revenue expansion.
 
upstater said:
I din't disagree with the idea that the BE is better. not at all. Never did. I was just responding to the idea that the BE will be OK. I don't think it will. And we are just starting on this path. I never said that the BE would instantly sink. But coaches earning $3-4m a year are hard to move. Coaches earning $1-2m a year will take off.

I think my assumptions about the P5 paying kids is right in keeping with reality. They are already doing it.
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And so are non P5 schools. That's a non starter honestly.
 
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August_West said:
But we get less in the AAC than 4 million , so how does anything you say after that hold water?
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No, we don't.

And even if we did, there's very little difference between the money from the 2 conferences, compared to the $45m Rutgers is getting.
 
FriarJ said:
And so are non P5 schools. That's a non starter honestly.
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No, they are not. The non-P5 schools are not keeping pace. Some of the conferences are paying $2k, just a couple of them. The big boys are paying $5k.
 
upstater said:
You get my point.

Iillnois will be taking Villanova's coach, for a simple reason. They can pay 2x as much.
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You say that, but I disagree with the notion that coaches salaries are going to sky rocket, just because they have P5 tv money.

There's a market for what coaches make and that is separated from what the school is making in TV dollars.

For instance, NFL head coaches are paid by teams that make way more money than these colleges, yet their salaries all aren't $20M a season. Just because the money is there, doesn't mean that a) a team will pay that much or b) that the market for coaches would even necessitate that.

The Big East I think has a pretty secure future as a power basketball conference.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
You say that, but I disagree with the notion that coaches salaries are going to sky rocket, just because they have P5 tv money.

There's a market for what coaches make and that is separated from what the school is making in TV dollars.

For instance, NFL head coaches are paid by teams that make way more money than these colleges, yet their salaries all aren't $20M a season. Just because the money is there, doesn't mean that a) a team will pay that much or b) that the market for coaches would even necessitate that.

The Big East I think has a pretty secure future as a power basketball conference.
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But it has already happened.

Tom Crean, John Beilein, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta are all around $3m+. Matt Painter and Mark Turgeon make as much as Jay Wright (actually, now that I look at it, Nova isn't bad at all at $2.4m). But then the rest of the B1G are $1.3-$2m, and even the lowest paid, Pitino, makes more than Mack, McDermott and Cooney.
 
upstater said:
But it has already happened.

Tom Crean, John Beilein, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta are all around $3m+. Matt Painter and Mark Turgeon make as much as Jay Wright (actually, now that I look at it, Nova isn't bad at all at $2.4m). But then the rest of the B1G are $1.3-$2m, and even the lowest paid, Pitino, makes more than Mack, McDermott and Cooney.
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Cooley makes over 2 million a year. Approaching 3 million. They are private institutions, Most of Jay Wright's money is paid from an endowment. Richard Pitino I would bet doesn't make as much as any BE coaches.
 
upstater said:
This is what I wrote in reply to the idea written by you that the BE will still be able to compete:

"How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?"

This was my original response. It didn't misrepresent you at all. I still think the BE schools will lose their coaches and thereby continuity and thereby decent players because they can't pay them. Recruiting will suffer--also the yearly per athlete fee of $5k (which is for all athletes) isn't paid out by them.

It will hurt them.

If in 10 years UConn isn't in a better situation, you will have to cut the subsidy, and no matter what non-P5 conference you're in, it will be the demise of UConn.

Only 2 things can stop this dreaded scenario:

1. UConn goes to a better conference
2. Football and the college TV bubble implode totally thereby ridding the P5 schools of their enormous advantage.
Expand ...
There's a third scenario. The power conferences monopolize basketball like football and the Big 12 grabs up us and Cincy stat.
 
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