Donny Marshall, stfu

[David 76]

Not sure people realize how much UConn is subsidizing it's athletic program in this effort to make us P-5 worthy.
It is not economically viable to continue this for a prolonged time. Not sure how long they feel they have before they have to stop. I imagine it affects student costs.

 

[Glastonhusky]

The only thing we can do is to continue onward in the AAC. Invest in our football and men's basketball programs and in the event there is another change in the CR landscape, hopefully we can get a life boat in a fractured Big 12 or fractured ACC. I think that is the best case scenario at this point.

I hate to call to cut sports, but that seems inevitable. It's very odd that UConn seems content to continue to pay the subsidy that it does right now, but I have to imagine that will be curtailed in the future.

If it comes to 2025 and the P5 is only stronger and says they are having their own tournament, solely with the P5 and say Big East and maybe the A10, then that's the time when you have to consider dropping football.

Make no mistake, there is no Independent, MAC, or FCS option. It's AAC, P5 or Big East and no football.

I agree with you, but why wouldn't there be a FCS option?

 

[Marty Jackson]

We are a basketball school. We play for NC's in basketball. WE WILL NEVER PLAY FOR AN NC IN FOOTBALL. Football ball should be second fiddle to everything hoops related.

funny, up until about 20 years ago, same could be said for basketball.

 

[Huskybass]

Yes, the Big East that we knew is dead and buried. There's no Big East to even go back to. The collection calling itself Big East now is an imposter, a pretender, a charlatan.

Ha ha, charade you are.

 

[noeynox]

I agree with you, but why wouldn't there be a FCS option?

Who is going to want to watch fcs football?

Why spend millions on it? Save the money and do away with it, if the option is fcs.

 

[champs99and04]

This is 100 percent true.
But the flip side is that in 15 years it's just as possible our athletic department is in the toilet for good due to never getting the lifeline than it is that D1 football saved us. In which case as a hoops fan I would've signed up for the slower bleeding and had more respectable hoops program against other northeast schools.

When we missed the ACC nobody and I mean nobody here thought we would be looking at 2025. Worst case that was being spouted here was 2017. If you said 2025 people would've killed themselves. And the sad thing is that when GORs come up in 2025, it guarantees us nothing. And the most natural fit for us doesn't come up until 20 thirty something.

It's the ultimate self inflicted slow suicide string along


Our big east separation dollars run dry soon.


This was a very big gamble and in my opinion in hindsight we are going to wish we Went to the nbe from the get go instead of these football caviar dreams ( which doesn't work in northeast anyway, but that's a different topic) torpedoing the hoops program

Pretty much my thoughts. Regional rivalries are the draw to college sports for me. When you start commercializing it to the extent that you're playing teams from Texas multiple times per year, it becomes the minor leagues. Even if we end up in the Big 10 or ACC, I have mixed feelings. It would be awesome as a UConn fan, but it still wouldn't feel right.

My point all along has been that if non-P5 schools are going to be ostracized from college sports, then I'm not really interested anyway. And as you put it, if that's inevitable, then I'd much rather bleed out in the Big East than the American. It'll never happen and probably shouldn't happen, but as a fan give me Providence, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and St. Johns tomorrow and I'll worry about the rest later.

If the P5 end up breaking off, I'll probably just end up throwing myself into hockey east and doing away with basketball and football.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Pretty much my thoughts. Regional rivalries are the draw to college sports for me. When you start commercializing it to the extent that you're playing teams from Texas multiple times per year, it becomes the minor leagues. Even if we end up in the Big 10 or ACC, I have mixed feelings. It would be awesome as a UConn fan, but it still wouldn't feel right.

My point all along has been that if non-P5 schools are going to be ostracized from college sports, then I'm not really interested anyway. And as you put it, if that's inevitable, then I'd much rather bleed out in the Big East than the American. It'll never happen and probably shouldn't happen, but as a fan give me Providence, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and St. Johns tomorrow and I'll worry about the rest later.

If the P5 end up breaking off, I'll probably just end up throwing myself into hockey east and doing away with basketball and football.

Joining the Big East preemptively, ensures we have no shot at the P5 even if it slows the bleeding by a few years. In my opinion, the worst case is we drop football and then join the Big East for basketball. I still think in a world where the P5 breaks off, there is room for a Big East due to their on court performance and national cache. If we get to the point where we cut the subsidy, drop football and join the Big East for hoops, I still think we would have the ability to be playing on the highest level for championships.

 

[LoveMeSomeUC]

Tough to argue with Donny, but can we drop football?

I have been saying this for a couple years now. Drop football and turn The Rent into a top golf franchise. Win win

 

[upstater]

I happen to think Marshall is absolutely right. UConn didn't get screwed in CR. Its place got revealed. There is no network coming to bail them out and spearhead their entry to power 5. UConn just rehired a football coach who was miserable at his last job and prior to that had a mediocre run at a UConn (W/out looking it up again, I'd say a handful of games over .500) in a a very shallow conference. Uconn just signed back up for mediocrity. Maybe Marshall is wrong but it sure seems to me that he is right. But, them again, CR is a bouncing ball with a with a path that is not easy to predict.

You're missing a whole slew of things. UConn's so-called place has always been about its ability to draw people to men's and women's basketball games, and win national championships in both. That is one factor. The second factor is that UConn is the state's athletic brand since there is no pro team in the state, and when it comes to cable boxes, UConn is in a very wealthy state with the highest tier 3 sports monthly premiums in the entire country. Couple that with undivided access to 3.6 million residents (i.e. there is no other D1 school in the state), and you have a much more lucrative P5 option than those who were somehow grandfathered in but didn't deserve it, and who blackballed us (BC), and of course there's the fact that UConn was twice the ACC's top option to join. So UConn not landing in the P5 is not a matter of an assessment of UConn's "place," as you put it, but rather a collection of circumstances (esp. BC's blackballing). The reasons UConn isn't in the B1G or B12 are obvious. It doesn't fit into the B12, and it doesn't have the credentials (AAU) that the B1G pushes for in most cases. The stumbling block has always been the jealousy of our former rivals.

Second, Edsall had a really successful run at UConn. The school quickly surpassed our local rivals like Pitt and Syracuse while in the Big East. It sent more players to the NFL than most P5 schools, and was the top producer for the BE, even over schools like West Virginia and Louisville. People were actually quite happy here to win the conference, or to go to a southern bowl and beat a good SEC team thoroughly, or to even just go to the Fiesta Bowl. This is a good record, especially when you consider Edsall created this from scratch, AND that it is better than what most of the P5 schools do. No one here should have expectations beyond that.

The biggest reason why the BE isn't so attractive though is that the money isn't better (not when you factor in football playoff money) and the BE schools are buried on Fox where no one ever watches. So far, UConn basketball has been shown on ESPN/CBS 13-16 times a year for the last 4 years, drawing more eyeballs than all the BE schools.

 

[upstater]

Joining the Big East preemptively, ensures we have no shot at the P5 even if it slows the bleeding by a few years. In my opinion, the worst case is we drop football and then join the Big East for basketball. I still think in a world where the P5 breaks off, there is room for a Big East due to their on court performance and national cache. If we get to the point where we cut the subsidy, drop football and join the Big East for hoops, I still think we would have the ability to be playing on the highest level for championships.

How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?

People are missing the fact that a move to the BE insures permanent big subsidies at UConn, whereas the administration is hoping against hope that in 7 years, the subsidy issue can be put to rest for good.

 

[upstater]

Pretty much my thoughts. Regional rivalries are the draw to college sports for me. When you start commercializing it to the extent that you're playing teams from Texas multiple times per year, it becomes the minor leagues. Even if we end up in the Big 10 or ACC, I have mixed feelings. It would be awesome as a UConn fan, but it still wouldn't feel right.

My point all along has been that if non-P5 schools are going to be ostracized from college sports, then I'm not really interested anyway. And as you put it, if that's inevitable, then I'd much rather bleed out in the Big East than the American. It'll never happen and probably shouldn't happen, but as a fan give me Providence, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and St. Johns tomorrow and I'll worry about the rest later.

If the P5 end up breaking off, I'll probably just end up throwing myself into hockey east and doing away with basketball and football.

The ship has sailed for regional conferences.

I mean, what is the exact appeal of traveling to Illinois, Ohio, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Indiana, and soon probably Missouri?

That is what you are faced with.

Heck, even the B1G is more contiguous.

 

[Danzz]

There are fair arguments on both sides. UConn has made a major football commitment that would be difficult to back away from at this point. We have no chance at getting into a P5 conference without improving football. I'm not so sure the Big East is going to maintain its current level in the future either because a basketball only conference may not be viable long term.
We have to give football one more shot. If the team quality doesn't improve dramatically in say 5 years then we can look at other options.

 

[Pudge]

Time changes things.

What could be more of a fit than a New England regional league for us to dominate. We had that ... it was the wondrous Yankee Conference and we didn't win it all the time in every sport. We had a very good hoop run and played competitively in football ... built our Soccer up.

We outgrew it. University of Vermont is a wonderful school and great to visit. Just not a sports competition of ours except Hockey; and we might out-recruit them there in the near term. Maine? UNH? URI? See where this is going? BU doesn't play football any longer and their hoop had a guy named Pitino and then fell flat for decades.

The Big East pseudo Catholic league is solid today. But ... we all have to admit that UConn took a turn to a National brand in the mid 1990s. ONLY UConn can look at the 39 million in the northeastern US in New York and New England and pull the Brand out as a Blueblood College Athletics program matched by a rising top 25 Public. That is not where Butler is. Nor Creighton. Or Marquette. Solid Privates in Cities. Some of the rest can waiver dramatically. Our we a match for UCF and USF and Temple and Houston? probably more so than the City privates. And, I do think we can nudge our way into something better.

I don't think 65 remain in the P5.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?

People are missing the fact that a move to the BE insures permanent big subsidies at UConn, whereas the administration is hoping against hope that in 7 years, the subsidy issue can be put to rest for good.

The cache will last because it doesn't matter how much money Northwestern gets from TV, it will never have the on court play, history or cache of a Villanova or Georgetown.

You seem hell bent on discrediting the Big East. I'm not sure why, but you have been since the start with your endless posts comparing the AAC with the Big East.

If it ever gets to the point where we are locked out of the P5, we will drop football (and other sports) in order to keep men's basketball in a good place.

 

[upstater]

The cache will last because it doesn't matter how much money Northwestern gets from TV, it will never have the on court play, history or cache of a Villanova or Georgetown.

You seem hell bent on discrediting the Big East. I'm not sure why, but you have been since the start with your endless posts comparing the AAC with the Big East.

If it ever gets to the point where we are locked out of the P5, we will drop football (and other sports) in order to keep men's basketball in a good place.

Endless posts, eh? I challenge you to find my last post comparing the AAC and Big East. It was possibly months ago and it surely said the BE blows the AAC out of the water basketball wise.

But polyannas like you can go on thinking $4m can compete with $50m, or $25m with $200m, but it's not going to happen.

Jay Wright will be coaching at Illinois in the future, the same way Buzz moved from Marquette to Virginia Tech. The writing is on the wall but you can't read it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Endless posts, eh? I challenge you to find my last post comparing the AAC and Big East. It was possibly months ago and it surely said the BE blows the AAC out of the water basketball wise.

But polyannas like you can go on thinking $4m can compete with $50m, or $25m with $200m, but it's not going to happen.

Jay Wright will be coaching at Illinois in the future, the same way Buzz moved from Marquette to Virginia Tech. The writing is on the wall but you can't read it.

You're intentionally misrepresenting my stance. Joining the Big East isn't an option, unless all other P5 football memberships are out the door.

I would obviously prefer a basketball only membership in the ACC over the Big East, but I tend to think that won't be an option.

What's your stance? If it becomes apparent a decade from now we have no shot at P5? Keep hemorrhaging money in pursuit of football? Or drop football and put basketball in the best position to succeed?

You're stating the Big East is far behind P5 in revenue. No kidding. Where does that leave UConn in 10 years though is the question.

 

[upstater]

You're intentionally misrepresenting my stance. Joining the Big East isn't an option, unless all other P5 football memberships are out the door.

This is what I wrote in reply to the idea written by you that the BE will still be able to compete:

"How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?"

This was my original response. It didn't misrepresent you at all. I still think the BE schools will lose their coaches and thereby continuity and thereby decent players because they can't pay them. Recruiting will suffer--also the yearly per athlete fee of $5k (which is for all athletes) isn't paid out by them.

It will hurt them.

If in 10 years UConn isn't in a better situation, you will have to cut the subsidy, and no matter what non-P5 conference you're in, it will be the demise of UConn.

Only 2 things can stop this dreaded scenario:

1. UConn goes to a better conference
2. Football and the college TV bubble implode totally thereby ridding the P5 schools of their enormous advantage.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

This is what I wrote in reply to the idea written by you that the BE will still be able to compete:

"How long will that cache last when big schools have TV money of $50m per year (with $200m budgets) and BE schools get $4m a year with $25m budgets?"

This was my original response. It didn't misrepresent you at all. I still think the BE schools will lose their coaches and thereby continuity and thereby decent players because they can't pay them. Recruiting will suffer--also the yearly per athlete fee of $5k (which is for all athletes) isn't paid out by them.

It will hurt them.

If in 10 years UConn isn't in a better situation, you will have to cut the subsidy, and no matter what non-P5 conference you're in, it will be the demise of UConn.

Only 2 things can stop this dreaded scenario:

1. UConn goes to a better conference
2. Football and the college TV bubble implode totally thereby ridding the P5 schools of their enormous advantage.

Then I just disagree with your premise. I think a 3rd option is that we aren't in a P5 and that the model won't completely implode. I think this option is far more likely than 1 or 2.

At that point the Big East is a way better option that basketball in the AAC.

 

[upstater]

Then I just disagree with your premise. I think a 3rd option is that we aren't in a P5 and that the model won't completely implode. I think this option is far more likely than 1 or 2.

At that point the Big East is a way better option that basketball in the AAC.

How are they going to keep their coaches? Recruit kids who are getting paid elsewhere? Use huge recruiting budgets to travel? Who is going to continue to watch them on FS1?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

How are they going to keep their coaches? Recruit kids who are getting paid elsewhere? Use huge recruiting budgets to travel? Who is going to continue to watch them on FS1?

You're only example of a coach leaving the league to go to a P5 has been Buzz Williams leaving Marquette for Virginia Tech. A move that was highly questioned by almost everyone at the time.

You're making the assumption that Big East schools won't trim their athletic departments in order to stay nationally competitive in basketball or simply fund at their current level. You're also making the assumption that P5 leagues are going to start paying kids more money in a rising cost of attendance and with that assuming Big East schools won't keep pace. Same with recruiting.

As far as watching them on FS1? If they keep putting kids in the NBA, making final 4s and having half the league in the top 25 it doesn't matter that much. It hasn't so far.

This all being said - my whole argument which you are seemingly ignoring - is that the Big East for basketball is better than the AAC for basketball, if we have to drop football. That's it.

 

[champs99and04]

Joining the Big East preemptively, ensures we have no shot at the P5 even if it slows the bleeding by a few years. In my opinion, the worst case is we drop football and then join the Big East for basketball. I still think in a world where the P5 breaks off, there is room for a Big East due to their on court performance and national cache. If we get to the point where we cut the subsidy, drop football and join the Big East for hoops, I still think we would have the ability to be playing on the highest level for championships.

I understand that, which is why I don't expect it to happen (and nor should it). As an I-want-my-candy-now guy I'd prefer to be in the Big East yesterday, because it's basketball season and football isn't for another eight months. Agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Marbles90]

I have never posted about the whole CR topic so I apologize in advance if this sounds naïve but my question is - assuming a P5 bid is never happening, what is wrong with staying in the AAC for both basketball and football? In basketball, it has been proven that you don't need to be in the P5 to win (we did it in 2014). And I would rather compete and have a chance to win the AAC in football than be in the FCS or dropping football completely. I understand we would have to pull back on how much we are spending on football but I am sure we can make it work - other G5 schools do. I guess I am saying isn't a G5 conference better than FCS and certainly better than no football? Again, I may be missing an obvious point here.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I have never posted about the whole CR topic so I apologize in advance if this sounds naïve but my question is - assuming a P5 bid is never happening, what is wrong with staying in the AAC for both basketball and football? In basketball, it has been proven that you don't need to be in the P5 to win (we did it in 2014). And I would rather compete and have a chance to win the AAC in football than be in the FCS or dropping football completely. I understand we would have to pull back on how much we are spending on football but I am sure we can make it work - other G5 schools do. I guess I am saying isn't a G5 conference better than FCS and certainly better than no football? Again, I may be missing an obvious point here.

I don't think it's as much as a UConn problem as it is a problem for all AAC members. A lot of members, specifically I remember Houston was cited, are spending bucks they simply don't have to hopefully move up in the short term.

It's really just a question of how long UConn wants to run the subsidy (around $25M-$30M yearly) to support FBS football, basketball and a full fledged athletic department. If there is no gold at the end of the rainbow, I think the AAC schools all may decrease funding.

I agree with you that dropping football would suck, but I think at the end of the day, I would rather 1 program compete on the highest level than 2 on a JV level.

 

[Danzz]

We keep mentioning the BE as a possibility but what makes anyone think that they want a state university with one eye on the door?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

We keep mentioning the BE as a possibility but what makes anyone think that they want a state university with one eye on the door?

Which is why it would only be an option if we dropped football.