Dog days of August..., so why not discuss KML height controversy...

[RadyLady]

I am not a bad dog
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we will have to agree to disagree

 

[doggydaddy]

Well, DD, nitpicks are a good way to have fun; hyper-accuracy in the way something is expressed is cool, but I'm not sure your comment is either nit or hyper. It rather looks more like an attempt to complicate the obvious. Less fun is had when someone does that, don't you think? :-o

Nope. Just pointing out what you said. You think KML is under 6' tall, so you left her off on purpose.

Nice try though.

 

[doggydaddy]

More help for DD:

View attachment 3460

So, KML wore flats in the White House. I do not have photo confirmation of the claim Doty wore very big heels (I.e. high enough to turn a 2" height deficit into a 3" height advantage) could not be independently confirmed via photo.

Looks to me that if Stewart is 6'4" KML looks around 6'. Thanks.

 

[meyers7]

In any event, it can be assumed, since you refused to address the issue other than to claim victim status resulting from crying "cheap shot", that your reason for listing Hartley at 5-9 instead of 5-10, which you said you believe her to be, is that a 3 inch departure from her UCONN listed height was simply too great a deviation. It may well be that height list antics are a part of the game.

IIRC, and I usually do, I believe DD in one of his game previews said he put Hartley at 5-9 because he believed her to be 5-10 and he had seen her listed at 5-8 (now) and he was just going to split the difference. So really your whole Hartley argument is mute.

And your other argument (KML not 6-0) is pretty mute based on all the pictures you have posted.

 

[doggydaddy]

No, DD, calling attention to you not posting what you "believe" is not a cheap shot. Rather, it was an invitation to think a little more deeply about the issue of height as it relates to basketball.

Height is usually an advantage in basketball. Generally speaking, taller is better. Thus, it may be said that to the extent height errors may occur, they will be on the side of over, rather than under-stating height.

Let me know if you agree or disagree.

In any event, it can be assumed, since you refused to address the issue other than to claim victim status resulting from crying "cheap shot", that your reason for listing Hartley at 5-9 instead of 5-10, which you said you believe her to be, is that a 3 inch departure from her UCONN listed height was simply too great a deviation. It may well be that height list antics are a part of the game.

That, at least, is my claim. I'm sticking with it.

Thanks for the Massengale correction. I appreciate it.

However, for as much as that may have helped me, I think it hurt you.

By virtue of that photo, if Massengale is 5-7, then KML is, indeed, 5-10.

Pictures don't always tell the story, but this does a nice job of it. Hartley towers over Massengale. Clearly a good 3 inches. And KML towers over the 5'7" Ellenburg. Clearly a good 5 inches.

All the team photos show clearly their height. Much clearer than the two lineup photos taken from bad angles with the supposition that they are in height order.

It's clear this has become more about you than KML and Hartley's height. For some reason you decided to make it personal. The cheap shot was clear - "not always accurate game analyses". I put myself out there every big game. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes not. And I deal with all that point it out. But your comment was not appreciate or necessary. Feel free to not read them or comment on them in the future.

 

[doggydaddy]

IIRC, and I usually do, I believe DD in one of his game previews said he put Hartley at 5-9 because he believed her to be 5-10 and he had seen her listed at 5-8 (now) and he was just going to split the difference. So really your whole Hartley argument is mute.

And your other argument (KML not 6-0) is pretty mute based on all the pictures you have posted.

You have pretty much nailed it.

 

[jplotinus]

Pictures don't always tell the story, but this does a nice job of it. Hartley towers over Massengale. Clearly a good 3 inches. And KML towers over the 5'7" Ellenburg. Clearly a good 5 inches.

All the team photos show clearly their height. Much clearer than the two lineup photos taken from bad angles with the supposition that they are in height order.

It's clear this has become more about you than KML and Hartley's height. For some reason you decided to make it personal. The cheap shot was clear - "not always accurate game analyses". I put myself out there every big game. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes not. And I deal with all that point it out. But your comment was not appreciate or necessary. Feel free to not read them or comment on them in the future.

DD, I need here to double check for accuracy of understanding. Are you claiming victim status based on my comment about your game analyses? If so, your claim is strained well beyond what reason will allow. I complimented your game analyses with a phrase that you have either taken out of context or misapprehended. Permit me to suggest you re-read it.

Striving for deeper meaning, searching out nuance and so on are fine. However, if you want to exchange on the basis of deepeming the inquiry, the better way to do so is to double check for accuracy of understanding, rather than put forth an assumption, and then argue with your own assumption, that in so doing, misses the point entirely.

I've said more than once, basketball is a game where height confers an advantage. Interest in the height of basketball players has been interesting for me over the years as average heights for women and men basketball players appears to me to have increased. I've mentioned this.

So, on a personal level, yes, I find some enjoyment in discussing player height. Beyond that, when I attend games I engage in height comparison. When I review roster stats, I pay attention to the height factor.

That is how I like to roll.

In your last photo, who, if you know, is standing to the left, as you look at the photo, of KML?

Thanks in advance.

 

[VAMike23]

 

[jplotinus]

Looks to me that if Stewart is 6'4" KML looks around 6'. Thanks.

Some might say 5-10 is around 6-0. In fact, in a context other than basketball, I'd say a 5-10 female is around 6-0. I would also consider a 5-10 female as being unusually tall. I've seen it claimed the average height of an American woman at present is 5-4 (5-10 ave. man). So, yes, in that sense, I agree, KML is a tall person, around 6-0. But in basketball terms, she is 5-10.

 

[trisailin]

I've said more than once, basketball is a game where height confers an advantage.

And I would argue that height without other skills is useless.
It's quite telling to me that Muggsy Bogues, Spud Web and several others have successfully played the game at the highest level. Height alone does NOT confer an advantage.

 

[jplotinus]

And I would argue that height without other skills is useless.
It's quite telling to me that Muggsy Bogues, Spud Web and several others have successfully played the game at the highest level. Height alone does NOT confer an advantage.

Ok, so far as it goes. However, your reference to exceptions may serve more as proof of the rule.

I can give you what I think is an equally intriguing NBA example and one that I think comes closer to matching KML's circumstances; namely:

CHARLES BARKLEY

Throughout college (Auburn, I think), he played the 5 and was listed at 6-6. In the NBA he played a lot at the 4. I recall seeing his correct height listed as 6-4-7/8. Or, an under 6-5 power forward where NBA 4s average a good 6-8, with many being taller and with most being at least 6-7.

What Barkley lacked in height, he made up in weight and in strength. He could hold his own and out rebound taller ayers based on what DD refers to as posterior positioning. I agree that is a suitable phrase for BY etiquette purposes. I'm guesding that the men's board, or on the playground in the hood, a different phrase or two might be more suitable. But I digress.

It might be that KML who was listed at 185lbs in the wug roster can play the 4 with the best of them despite being under 6-0.

Peace in the valley?

 

[meyers7]

You have pretty much nailed it.

Hammer time.

 

[trisailin]

It might be that KML who was listed at 185lbs in the wug roster can play the 4 with the best of them despite being under 6-0.

Since you don't believe the 6', why on earth would you believe the 185?

 

[doggydaddy]

Since you don't believe the 6', why on earth would you believe the 185?

Plotsie, when a poster like trisailin questions you, you should think twice about your position. Trisailin has more likes than posts.

That's like a 5-1 assist/to ration. Amazing.

 

[ChicagoGG]

I am not a bad dog
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Maybe not, but you sure are gnawing at this bone you two are picking....

 

[jplotinus]

Since you don't believe the 6', why on earth would you believe the 185?

Wait, Trisalin. You, too, might consider the now familiar "double check for accuracy of understanding" approach that I outlined for DD. You have but to ask before declaring "gotcha" for goodness sake. I try to do that.

Instead of assuming I was endorsing, sanctioning and/or signaling my "belief" that the wug 185 weight for KML was accurate, you could havecdouble checked to ask if that is what I was doing. I wasn't.

Look, I wasn't born yesterday. I appreciate the value of consistency in a thought process. I mean, shouldn't we be willing to give each other a little credit for having a modicum of reasoning capacity? Isn't it rather obvious that if wug uses what I have claimed is an inaccurate height metric for KML, buying into the 6-0 listing, as they do; while sidestepping an opportunity for a visual comparison, by sitting her with the Gs, as they did, when they pictured her, that it might be possible that their weight metric is also unreliable?

I get that.

But, there are a variety of other reasons why the number, 185, may still have utility. For one, women bb players' weights, unlike that of men bb players, is not normally published. UCONN doesn't do that. For another, one look at KML and you can see that 6-0 is questionable. That same look reveals she is full figured, if I might use that term to describe her build. Thus, 185 seems a reasonable estimate. I do not have a belief in the accuracy of that number; rather, I have no reason to ignore it, and some value in using it to compare her with Charles Barkey, as a male counterpart to our female player.

I don't mind saying that I consider it high praise to say that KML may be a female version of Charles Barkley, even if I have to say so myself, since no one else sought to acknowledge that likewise obvious, but nonetheless flattering to KML comparison.

Come on people, stay on the high road, if you please!

You can deal with this manner of posting, can't you? :-/

 

[reno tony]

I think your reference to the effect of parallax in connection with player height is inaccurate, or, at a minimum, way overstated. The information imparted in the photos is useful. It may not satisfy you, it may be useless to you, but that descriptor does not apply beyond that.

For one thing, the information is useful to me in forming the opinion that KML is 5-10 and not 6-0 as listed.

Query: do you disagree with the assertion KML is 5-10, if so, why do you disagree?

Are you sure the camera was parallel to the floor and the line of players was perpendicular to the camera and the players were standing on the flat level part of the floor and they were not on their toes?

 

[reno tony]

What difference does it make whether KML is 5' 10" or 6'? Do we tell her to pay back her scholarship because her height was listed incorrectly for us fans? Does the listing of her height change reality? What if every other player on the team is listed incorrectly and only KML is correct? What if they lining up height-wise is only approximate. How much time does or should the team spend on listed height concerns? Have we been shortchanged as fans? Are Geno, Chris, Shea and Marissa guilty of dereliction of duty bringing in such a vertically challenged player? Does Geno play her in the wrong spot on the floor since she obviously is too short to play amongst the bigs? Is our last year National Championship invalid because somebody looking at a photo has determined that her listed height is incorrect?

None, No, No, Doesn't matter, One hour, Yes, No, No(Geno never makes mistakes),No

 

[jplotinus]

Are you sure the camera was parallel to the floor and the line of players was perpendicular to the camera and the players were standing on the flat level part of the floor and they were not on their toes?

No, and no, and no, and no. Pictures are almost always inconclusive in one or more particulars. So are measuring devices of almost every type or kind.

Last time I had a check up, nurse measured me at 1" less than that claimed on my drivers license. Nurse was rather short. Upon re measurement, with the level placed at the apex of my pinhead, I had only lost 1/4" of height, thus preserving the accuracy of the drivers license.

This year, Hartley has officially gained an inch, now being 5-8 according to UCONN listing. I'm thinking an accurate measurement would call for other changes, including KML at -2.

Does it matter?

I think there's something to be said in favor of accurate height measurement of basketball players, especially those in elite programs.

 

[reno tony]

No, and no, and no, and no. Pictures are almost always inconclusive in one or more particulars. So are measuring devices of almost every type or kind.

Last time I had a check up, nurse measured me at 1" less than that claimed on my drivers license. Nurse was rather short. Upon re measurement, with the level placed at the apex of my pinhead, I had only lost 1/4" of height, thus preserving the accuracy of the drivers license.

This year, Hartley has officially gained an inch, now being 5-8 according to UCONN listing. I'm thinking an accurate measurement would call for other changes, including KML at -2.

Does it matter?

I think there's something to be said in favor of accurate height measurement of basketball players, especially those in elite programs.

Then, in your opinion, pictures are not an accurate way to measure someone's height. I only agree when the pictures are skewed and the proper perspective is lost. But some of these pictures are straight on, and the players(assuming they are wearing the same height shoes) heights are able to be approximated with respect to each other. I'm not sure that it is important to know their exact height. But the mystery will continue until someone puts a tape on them or we get a video from a 7-11 with KML leaving and her height can be determined by the rulers on the doors.