JoePgh
Cranky pants and wise acre
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I'm starting this thread to facilitate discussion of a point that has been made in numerous posts since 10 PM EDT last night. There are many examples of posters making this point, but I have selected this one from @LoboDays' comment in the "Enough About Bad Recruiting" thread:
"If UConn wants to get back to winning NC's, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded...."
There are several points to be made in response to this, in my opinion:
I think this is an outdated view of the game -- that every team needs a Shaquille O'Neal to be truly successful. Have you watched the Boston Celtics play lately? They don't have a center that plays like that, and they are 33-11 in the NBA since mid-December.
I remember that when UConn's starting lineup included Stef Dolson and Kelly Faris, a lot of fans were asking why Stef played in the high post and seemed to like passing more than scoring. There was such a chorus of these comments that Meg Culmo posed that question to Geno on The Geno Auriemma Show, reading a listener's question.
I remember his response very clearly, although not verbatim. It was almost exactly this:
Playing your big in the low post only works if the other four players are all major scoring threats who have to be guarded. If we put Stef in the low post, the other team would just leave Kelly unguarded and double Stef. Kelly would get any shot she wanted, but we would then have to rely on her jump shooting to win the game. That's not where we want to be. We want to get shots for Stef, and that is much easier if she is in the high post.
What he didn't say in that response (but everyone understood) is: (a) Stef did have a reliable jump shot from 15 feet, so no opponent could afford to leave her unguarded there (a contrast with both Liv and AE); (b) Stef was a fine passer -- at least as good as Liv -- and could facilitate the offense from the high post, allowing the guards not just to get jump shots but also to get backdoor layups and 6-footers; and (c) Stef could take an ungainly opposing post off the dribble and get to the hoop for an and-one, which she did with some regularity.
In the Louisville game in December, Liv drove against Engstler twice in the first few minutes of the game and got 2 quick fouls on her, sending her to the bench for the rest of the first half. I wish we had seen that more often -- she probably could have done the same thing against Brink, but maybe not against Cunane. She certainly could not have done it against Boston.
I'm certainly not saying that if a gifted "banger" like Boston is available out of high school or in the transfer portal, Geno should pass her up. He shouldn't and he won't. But lesser players of that type are not necessarily a better option than players like Dorka and Amari. Imagine if by some miracle, UConn had Aneesha Morrow on the roster this year. She is a "banger" -- would she have turned the South Carolina game around? Would she have done better against Stanford or NC State than UConn's actual front court did? I don't think she would.
I will be interested to see the appetite of of Ice and Ayanna for physical play. My hunch is that they will be closer to the AE end of the physicality spectrum than to the Liv/Amari end. If that is true, then I think UConn's front court for 2022-23 is well situated even without any additional help from the transfer portal or elsewhere. Which doesn't mean that it will have an answer for Boston. The only answer for her is to limit her to some degree and have the rest of the Huskies defeat the rest of the Gamecocks by enough to make up for her advantage.
"If UConn wants to get back to winning NC's, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded...."
There are several points to be made in response to this, in my opinion:
- First of all, Aliyah Boston is a very special case. She is currently the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul Jabbar of WCBB. Just as no opponent was able really to match up with either of them, even in the NBA, no one in WCBB has really matched up with Boston. It would have been nice if Geno had brought her to Storrs, but he didn't, and there really is no one else he might have recruited (including Brink, Cunane, Nalyssa Smith, Tamari Key, or Elizabeth Kitley) who could have neutralized her.
- UConn (specifically Liv and Aaliyah Edwards) did fine against both Brink and Cunane, neutralizing them sufficiently that UConn was able to win the game with its other assets. Tara Vandeveer in her postgame remarks specifically mentioned how physically Liv played against Stanford, and the Indiana coach said the same thing in her postgame remarks. Some have said that Liv didn't develop in her time at UConn, but I don't think opposing coaches would have been saying those things after their teams faced her in her freshman or sophomore years.
- Really, Liv's only deficiency at this point is her scoring -- her lack of an array of post moves or (more importantly) a truly reliable 15-foot jump shot that she can take 8 to 10 times per game and hit 50%. I wonder whether pro teams will be willing to take a chance on her developing those skills at the pro level. If I were a WNBA GM, I think I would take that risk in the second round of the draft, but not in the first round.
- There is no issue with AE's appetite for physical play. She is big enough to make that work (bigger than Morgan Tuck or Asjah Jones), but she needs to play with a 5 who can open up space for her in the paint by making midrange jump shots, and she needs to develop her own midrange jump shot to pull opposing posts out of the paint to defend her.
I think this is an outdated view of the game -- that every team needs a Shaquille O'Neal to be truly successful. Have you watched the Boston Celtics play lately? They don't have a center that plays like that, and they are 33-11 in the NBA since mid-December.
I remember that when UConn's starting lineup included Stef Dolson and Kelly Faris, a lot of fans were asking why Stef played in the high post and seemed to like passing more than scoring. There was such a chorus of these comments that Meg Culmo posed that question to Geno on The Geno Auriemma Show, reading a listener's question.
I remember his response very clearly, although not verbatim. It was almost exactly this:
Playing your big in the low post only works if the other four players are all major scoring threats who have to be guarded. If we put Stef in the low post, the other team would just leave Kelly unguarded and double Stef. Kelly would get any shot she wanted, but we would then have to rely on her jump shooting to win the game. That's not where we want to be. We want to get shots for Stef, and that is much easier if she is in the high post.
What he didn't say in that response (but everyone understood) is: (a) Stef did have a reliable jump shot from 15 feet, so no opponent could afford to leave her unguarded there (a contrast with both Liv and AE); (b) Stef was a fine passer -- at least as good as Liv -- and could facilitate the offense from the high post, allowing the guards not just to get jump shots but also to get backdoor layups and 6-footers; and (c) Stef could take an ungainly opposing post off the dribble and get to the hoop for an and-one, which she did with some regularity.
In the Louisville game in December, Liv drove against Engstler twice in the first few minutes of the game and got 2 quick fouls on her, sending her to the bench for the rest of the first half. I wish we had seen that more often -- she probably could have done the same thing against Brink, but maybe not against Cunane. She certainly could not have done it against Boston.
I'm certainly not saying that if a gifted "banger" like Boston is available out of high school or in the transfer portal, Geno should pass her up. He shouldn't and he won't. But lesser players of that type are not necessarily a better option than players like Dorka and Amari. Imagine if by some miracle, UConn had Aneesha Morrow on the roster this year. She is a "banger" -- would she have turned the South Carolina game around? Would she have done better against Stanford or NC State than UConn's actual front court did? I don't think she would.
I will be interested to see the appetite of of Ice and Ayanna for physical play. My hunch is that they will be closer to the AE end of the physicality spectrum than to the Liv/Amari end. If that is true, then I think UConn's front court for 2022-23 is well situated even without any additional help from the transfer portal or elsewhere. Which doesn't mean that it will have an answer for Boston. The only answer for her is to limit her to some degree and have the rest of the Huskies defeat the rest of the Gamecocks by enough to make up for her advantage.
