Does Uconn have a super team

[hoopsnloops32]

You've mentioned injuries with both players. My point has been "if healthy." You and I were disagreeing with the poster hoopsnloops in that he or she was saying that Paige and Azzi are behind Edwards. Bottomline is the argument for Edwards is "availability." The argument for Paige and Azzi is that if healthy we know what we have seen and it's Azzi and Paige.

While you pointed out that there was specific games Azzi was the higher option, I similarly say in specific games that when Azzi is healthy, she is more than what you give her credit for by calling her just "potentially a star." To further this, you'll mention "consistency," - well that's what the poster hoopsnloops implies when he or she favors Edwards because of Aziz’s injuries she hasn't been as consistent as Edwards.

For this discussion for me I dismiss "consistency" points. We're all just making opinions projecting how a team and players perform. And I know what I saw with Azzi- I saw as you did Azzi was the #1 option and the reason why OI know she was the #1 option is because she is better than Edwards, the 3rd team All-American. There's a reason why Geno did this because as we know Azzi is better.

And therefore, we should have no problem taking the next leap and ask if Azzi is better than Van Lith and Morrow? And imo ofc she is. when healthy,

And a similar story but a level below Edwards is Ducharme. I can't close my eyes (not saying you are. Not one bit - just talking about me.) to what I've seen. And at a lesser level when it comes to Azzi - I can't put my hands over my ears and pretend that I haven't heard the accolades from the coaching staff regarding Azzi. No one else other than Paige gets those accolades to the degree Azzi gets. I can't dismiss that for such an open-ended comment like "She hasn’t been consistent." Because at what game do we make a declaration that a player like Azzi "is consistent?" It's too open-ended and subjective vs what I know what I've seen and the logic of what I've seen backed up by the coaches and past Azzi Fudd history. It all matches that when she is healthy, she is a superstar and she showed in vs some very good competition. her game wasn't "stopped" when she was healthy.

Yea I agree with this. You can't put Azzi and Paige above Aaliyah but then say they aren't proven enough commodities to be considered equal or bigger stars than Hailey Van Lith and Morrow.

Azzi was great in the 6 game stretch when she was healthy last year and was a star. When she hasn't been healthy, her shooting has been quite streaky and she wasn't playing at an All American level. Some games she's on, others she is off and doesn't make as much of an impact--that's inconsistency. Box scores tell the story. It's hard for me to solidify her as a star when we effectively have just a 6 game stretch to go off of and make that conclusion. If she can maintain that level of play through a full season, then yes, she's a bonafide star, but right now I wouldn't make that distinction based off a 6 game stretch. It just isn't a big enough body of work and players can have hot and cold streaks when they play.

She very well may be better than both Van Lith and Morrow, but I think both of those players are more proven commodities based on their play the last 2-3 years. FWIW if I'm drafting a team, I'd take Fudd over either, but Hailey Van Lith/Morrow have proven to be stars at this level where Fudd's body of work isn't there yet.

So then you agree, Fudd and Paige are also behind Edwards as Edwards is a much more proven commodity than both of them the last 2 years? You seem to apply different logic to UConn players against each other than UConn players against non-UConn players.

 

[hoophuskee]

Azzi was great in the 6 game stretch when she was healthy last year and was a star. When she hasn't been healthy, her shooting has been quite streaky and she wasn't playing at an All American level. Some games she's on, others she is off and doesn't make as much of an impact--that's inconsistency. Box scores tell the story. It's hard for me to solidify her as a star when we effectively have just a 6 game stretch to go off of and make that conclusion. If she can maintain that level of play through a full season, then yes, she's a bonafide star, but right now I wouldn't make that distinction based off a 6 game stretch. It just isn't a big enough body of work and players can have hot and cold streaks when they play.

She very well may be better than both Van Lith and Morrow, but I think both of those players are more proven commodities based on their play the last 2-3 years. FWIW if I'm drafting a team, I'd take Fudd over either, but Hailey Van Lith/Morrow have proven to be stars at this level where Fudd's body of work isn't there yet.

Read the point hoopsloops just asked you. You're applying one criteria for Azzi as a non-super player. But in the next you aren't doign the same when you compare Azzi to Edawards.

For example, Azzi's shooting si streaky because she has been non-healthy she doens't shoot as well.

 

[cometjo]

To me, part of what is meant by calling LSU a superteam is analogous to a supergroup in music: the members are already famous as solo artists or from other bands. So Cream, Blind Faith, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. Whereas Uconn is more like the Beatles or the Stones.

 

[JonathanXIV]

They are both coming off serious injuries. Probably won’t see a fully recovered Paige until the end of the year and Azzi will be coming off surgery. For now I think you have to put them both behind Edwards the most recent AA who hasn’t had any injuries and will only continue to get better.

Paige will be over a year removed from her injury. She won’t need a full season to be back to Paige-level.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Paige will be over a year removed from her injury. She won’t need a full season to be back to Paige-level.

It typically takes two 18-months to two years to get fully back playing wise. Her knee will be fine sure but I don’t think the full player will be back until the end of the year at the earliest.

 

[Bone Dog]

Paige will be over a year removed from her injury. She won’t need a full season to be back to Paige-level.

I’m pretty sure Paige will hit the ground running. We’ll all probably be more worried that she’s playing too hard.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

In an up beat post, you couldn't help but trash Nika, could you?

Eric has been a poster on this board since you were in diapers, he’s a true UConn Womens Basketball fan. What he said about Nika was honest, spot on, and realistic.

 

[oldhusky]

While trying to stay out of the who is better than who, within the team, and compared to other team's players, you could say in the last two years both Paige and Azzi have been healthy for a total of only 6 games each. In both cases that was at the beginning of the season, and in two years together they have never played a game when both were healthy at the same time.

I know some don't like PER (player efficiency rating) numbers but I think they are telling for both players. Paige had a PER of 32 her first year (15 is average). Starting her sophomore season after 6 games she was at 36. Then she came back to play 11 more for a total of 17 games. Her year end PER was 30, so obviously those 11 games after coming back she was way under 30, probably mid 20's to bring her overall average down to 30.

Azzi had a similar story this past season, after the first 6 games she had a PER that I remember was over 30 and there was All American talk. She ended the season in the low 20's, so her numbers after returning twice from injury probably were not much better than average. Her drop-off returning from injury was even bigger than Paige's.

So over the last two years we have 6 games for each that could be indicative of how they could perform if healthy, and those numbers were very good. We also have no track record at all about how they could do together if both were healthy at the same time, and we don't know how close to 100% they could be this year.

Those limited games, however, do give us a clearer view of what the upside or ceiling can be. In addition how much lower their year end numbers were compared to their first 6 games shows that the impact of those injuries went far beyond the number of games missed. They were not the same players for the rest of the year. To think that our two consecutive number 1 recruits would have only 6 healthy games each over their first two seasons together is pretty mind boggling.

Concerns over both players being potentially injury prone are very real, but if we get what we saw in those healthy games from both of them, then super team is very likely.

 

[Bone Dog]

While trying to stay out of the who is better than who, within the team, and compared to other team's players, you could say in the last two years both Paige and Azzi have been healthy for a total of only 6 games each. In both cases that was at the beginning of the season, and in two years together they have never played a game when both were healthy at the same time.

I know some don't like PER (player efficiency rating) numbers but I think they are telling for both players. Paige had a PER of 32 her first year (15 is average). Starting her sophomore season after 6 games she was at 36. Then she came back to play 11 more for a total of 17 games. Her year end PER was 30, so obviously those 11 games after coming back she was way under 30, probably mid 20's to bring her overall average down to 30.

Azzi had a similar story this past season, after the first 6 games she had a PER that I remember was over 30 and there was All American talk. She ended the season in the low 20's, so her numbers after returning twice from injury probably were not much better than average. Her drop-off returning from injury was even bigger than Paige's.

So over the last two years we have 6 games for each that could be indicative of how they could perform if healthy, and those numbers were very good. We also have no track record at all about how they could do together if both were healthy at the same time, and we don't know how close to 100% they could be this year.

Those limited games, however, do give us a clearer view of what the upside or ceiling can be. In addition how much lower their year end numbers were compared to their first 6 games shows that the impact of those injuries went far beyond the number of games missed. They were not the same players for the rest of the year. To think that our two consecutive number 1 recruits would have only 6 healthy games each over their first two seasons together is pretty mind boggling.

Concerns over both players being potentially injury prone are very real, but if we get what we saw in those healthy games from both of them, then super team is very likely.

I dont entirely understand PER. I’m tempted to say a team with two players over 30 is a unicorn. What about Aaliyah? Was her PER near 30 too. I’d expect it was last season. But can you have that many players around 30 on the same team? Or do they force a regression to the mean? Is there a limit to PER across a team’s 200 minutes?

If we have two players (or maybe 3) with a PER around 30, it’s hard to see how we could lose any games.

 

[hoophuskee]

While trying to stay out of the who is better than who, within the team, and compared to other team's players, you could say in the last two years both Paige and Azzi have been healthy for a total of only 6 games each. In both cases that was at the beginning of the season, and in two years together they have never played a game when both were healthy at the same time.

I know some don't like PER (player efficiency rating) numbers but I think they are telling for both players. Paige had a PER of 32 her first year (15 is average). Starting her sophomore season after 6 games she was at 36. Then she came back to play 11 more for a total of 17 games. Her year end PER was 30, so obviously those 11 games after coming back she was way under 30, probably mid 20's to bring her overall average down to 30.

Azzi had a similar story this past season, after the first 6 games she had a PER that I remember was over 30 and there was All American talk. She ended the season in the low 20's, so her numbers after returning twice from injury probably were not much better than average. Her drop-off returning from injury was even bigger than Paige's.

So over the last two years we have 6 games for each that could be indicative of how they could perform if healthy, and those numbers were very good. We also have no track record at all about how they could do together if both were healthy at the same time, and we don't know how close to 100% they could be this year.

Those limited games, however, do give us a clearer view of what the upside or ceiling can be. In addition how much lower their year end numbers were compared to their first 6 games shows that the impact of those injuries went far beyond the number of games missed. They were not the same players for the rest of the year. To think that our two consecutive number 1 recruits would have only 6 healthy games each over their first two seasons together is pretty mind boggling.

Concerns over both players being potentially injury prone are very real, but if we get what we saw in those healthy games from both of them, then super team is very likely.

Great post!!

Two other points about Azzi and Paige is that they have played togther before travelling on summer all-star teams as both starters, and secondly their games are extremely complimentary of one another.

 

[oldhusky]

I dont entirely understand PER. I’m tempted to say a team with two players over 30 is a unicorn. What about Aaliyah? Was her PER near 30 too. I’d expect it was last season. But can you have that many players around 30 on the same team? Or do they force a regression to the mean? Is there a limit to PER across a team’s 200 minutes?

If we have two players (or maybe 3) with a PER around 30, it’s hard to see how we could lose any games.

You are right that there are some upward boundaries, only so many shots to be taken, rebounds to gather etc, and if you are on a great team that limits the upside, but Uconn has had some teams with two or three over 30, Stewart was as high as 47 I think her senior year with Gabby and Pheesa on the bench over 30 if i recall correctly.

The numbers are also relative to your competition. So playing tough competition the overall numbers for both sides weighted by minutes played would come out to about 15. Lou had a PER of about 20 at Uconn, but closer to 25 at Fairfield with much easier competition. Uconn's opponents were about 16 points per game better than the average division 1 team, while Fairfield's the prior year were slightly below average by a couple of points. A player with a PER of 20 against the weakest competition could actually be below average, and someone like Ayanna who had a PER of 12 could be above average due to the tough schedule.

 

[Kaizen]

Agree and this is also my numbers.

 

[UConnCat]

It typically takes two 18-months to two years to get fully back playing wise. Her knee will be fine sure but I don’t think the full player will be back until the end of the year at the earliest.

Can you cite a study that supports this claim?

 

[hoophuskee]

This is what makes it so hard - for exampel if Caroline is healthy, she only gets 20?

And if Ice is as good as some suggest she's at least a tier above the rest. At least.

 

[MSGRET]

Eric has been a poster on this board since you were in diapers, he’s a true UConn Womens Basketball fan. What he said about Nika was honest, spot on, and realistic.

I disagree with your statement, Eric stated "I think her real problem is that she is too much of a 2-dimensional player. Sure she has tremendous energy and charisma, but i think she needs to add more variety to her dribbling and decision making."

Nika has been the Big East Defensive Player of the year the past two seasons and is one heck of a Point Guard. Since the 2020-21 season she has posted 13 of the 18 double digit assists games with both Paige and Evina having two each and Olivia having the other one. She is much more than a 2-dimensional player, she is the vocal leader of the team on both the offense and defense, and Geno knows it.

 

[Happydad745]

We have the players, but is Paige fully recovered yet?, and is Azzi fully recovered yet? If own best players are less than 100%, we have problems.

 

[hoophuskee]

I disagree with your statement, Eric stated "I think her real problem is that she is too much of a 2-dimensional player. Sure she has tremendous energy and charisma, but i think she needs to add more variety to her dribbling and decision making."

Nika has been the Big East Defensive Player of the year the past two seasons and is one heck of a Point Guard. Since the 2020-21 season she has posted 13 of the 18 double digit assists games with both Paige and Evina having two each and Olivia having the other one. She is much more than a 2-dimensional player, she is the vocal leader of the team on both the offense and defense, and Geno knows it.

What's a 2-dimensional player? Offense and Defense is 2 dimensional, isn't it?

 

[sun]

What's a 2-dimensional player? Offense and Defense is 2 dimensional, isn't it?

To answer your question without referring to Nika at all, a 2 way player is someone who can play both good offense & good defense.
A 3 dimensional player basically refers to a player's offensive ability and means that the player can effectively score on all 3 levels plus more.

Becoming a 3-Dimensional Scorer with Tim Schuring

www.breakthroughbasketball.com

What is a Two-Way Player in Basketball? Explained!

In basketball, the defense doesn’t get the recognition it deserves at times. As fans, we love the highlight plays such as dunks, no-look passes, and 3 pointers. While sometimes …

basketballword.com

LSU guard Khayla Pointer thrives on being a multi-dimensional basketball player

Pick any game, any statistical column and it will be hard to find low-end numbers next to Khayla Pointer’s name.

www.theadvocate.com

 

[hoophuskee]

To answer your question without referring to Nika at all, a 2 way player is someone who can play both good offense & good defense.
A 3 dimensional player basically refers to a player's offensive ability and means that the player can effectively score on all 3 levels plus more.

Becoming a 3-Dimensional Scorer with Tim Schuring

www.breakthroughbasketball.com

What is a Two-Way Player in Basketball? Explained!

In basketball, the defense doesn’t get the recognition it deserves at times. As fans, we love the highlight plays such as dunks, no-look passes, and 3 pointers. While sometimes …

basketballword.com

LSU guard Khayla Pointer thrives on being a multi-dimensional basketball player

Pick any game, any statistical column and it will be hard to find low-end numbers next to Khayla Pointer’s name.

www.theadvocate.com

Thank you. I never heard 2-dimensional/ 3-diimensional before. I don't understand the separation between "knock down perimeter shots" vs "Knock down mid-range shots." IMO you have the paint, then the perimeter (within the perimeter you have 2pt shooting (mid-range) and then you have 3pt shooting.

It seems there is an implied separation 2pt vs 3pt yet the author didn't specify this and it easily could have been by saying mid-range vs 3pt range. And what I've always heard is that taking a 2pt shot just inside the 3pt line is not always a good shot. That's why I don't believe it would be good to advertise that much beyond mid-range is something to achieve rather than just call all 2pt shooting mid-range or just say 2pt outside shooting vs 3pt outside shooting. I won't talk about this any further.

Thank you, sun!

 

[Skeets]

Eric has been a poster on this board since you were in diapers, he’s a true UConn Womens Basketball fan. What he said about Nika was honest, spot on, and realistic.

I'm going to try to use words that won't get me a 30-day time out. Do you know how old I am? Do you know how old the internet is? You state Eric is a true UConn fan, implying I'm not. Do you know how many decades I've been a season ticket holder? You lose a lot of credibility when you post stupid stuff.

As far as Eric trashing Nika, I stand by my opinion, which I think I'm allowed to do here.

 

[HuskyNan]

Enough with the bickering and (deleted) insults.