OT: DIII sports experience

[Fishy]

My daughter is a DIII athlete at a NESCAC.

Compared to the cost of a in-state public (NY), it costs us about $17,000 more once her scholarship figures in. We have one kid and we were going to pay whatever depending on where she wanted to go. Wasn’t a factor. While she applied as safety schools, we never visited Binghamton or Buffalo, the two most appealing of the SUNY flags. (We hear great things about Bing.)

As for the sport…it’s not easy. It’s a 5:30-7:30 am practice and a 3:30-5:30 practice. She seems to enjoy it and she navigates that, her classes, student gov and working in admissions as an advisor and tour guide. Not sure how.

She very much enjoys a second social group - she has her dorm friend group and her swimming friend group and seems to divide her weekends between them. She spends half of her winter break in Naples, Florida training…we’d rather have her here, but it is what it is.

Overall - seems very much like a positive experience.

 

[jibsey]

I always thought that D2 or D3 schools found a way to get “scholarship” money to those that they wanted badly on their sports teams. My nephew went to Amherst that way, got the scholarship, supposed to play football, got injured and never got to play. Kept the scholarship all 4 years.

 

[Chuck]

I always thought that D2 or D3 schools found a way to get “scholarship” money to those that they wanted badly on their sports teams. My nephew went to Amherst that way, got the scholarship, supposed to play football, got injured and never got to play. Kept the scholarship all 4 years.

Depends on the school, but more importantly, it depends on the sport. Mediocre schools will find the money (since they can't give athletic scholarships). For the elite schools (like Amherst), football is the one sport that many will bend for, especially regarding admissions. I know (from a friend) that Williams will get a kid in for football that would never get in for a different sport. For schools that don't give merit aid, I don't know if they play with the need-based numbers. That seems shady.

 

[husky429]

I always thought that D2 or D3 schools found a way to get “scholarship” money to those that they wanted badly on their sports teams. My nephew went to Amherst that way, got the scholarship, supposed to play football, got injured and never got to play. Kept the scholarship all 4 years.

D2 has actual scholarships. D3 puts together financial aid packages. Better packages for the better players and for big sports like football or basketball. Basketball players I know seem to get around 50% off tuition, but more at the really wealthy NECSAC schools (Like Amherst). Still ends up being super expensive though for most kids. Many pay way more than UConn would be in-state.

Thinking of D3 sports aid as "scholarships" is probably bad juju. An actual D1 or D2 scholarship covers tuition, room, board, food... all of it. D3 isn't even covering tuition for most athletes. Poor kids are still going to struggle to afford it.

The sports teams at NECSAC schools are loaded with kids who had wealthier parents and decided they wanted to play college sports and pay out of pocket whatever aid doesn't cover.

 

[HooperScooper]

D2 has actual scholarships. D3 puts together financial aid packages. Better packages for the better players and for big sports like football or basketball.

I don't think that happens at elite D3 academic schools. Used to happen a long time ago but not now. He mentioned NESCAC and NEWMAC schools so I don't think that happens at any of those schools. Amherst absolutely doesn't do that. Financial aid at schools like that is all need based. They would get all kinds of blow back if they used financial aid to get athletes.

 

[husky429]

I don't think that happens at elite D3 academic schools. Used to happen a long time ago but not now. He mentioned NESCAC and NEWMAC schools so I don't think that happens at any of those schools. Amherst absolutely doesn't do that. Financial aid at schools like that is all need based. They would get all kinds of blow back if they used financial aid to get athletes.

All the kids I coach are dufuses who could never get into NESCAC schools, so fair enough lol.

 

[HooperScooper]

All the kids I coach are dufuses who could never get into NESCAC schools, so fair enough lol.

Oh they do reach for kids with academics. Each sport gets a certain number of kids the coach can get in. Football has more slots than other sports. Most sports get 2. The academic reach has to be within reason though. You can't put a dufus into the academics at Williams/Amherst/Bowdoin, etc. They won't last. Trinity is notorious for reaching more than other NESCAC schools.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

My overall advice would be to make the best academic decision, even if that means playing a club team instead of D3. Or to play D3 vs D2 for academics, or whatever.

I have seen A LOT of kdis be miserable because they made a sports-first decision instead of the best college for their aspirations outside of sports. Find the right college first, and focus on sports second. The point of college is to be prepared for life and career--sports can't get in the way of that.

At the end of the day, D3 sports are just a time consuming hobby with a cool looking uniform. TONS of D3 kids quit when they realize the time commitment and real life starts to hit junior or senior year.

Wholly agree with this.

Three people close to me who weren’t D1 athletes followed this rule and all three are/were happy with their choices.

My niece plays soccer at a NAIA in Arizona. She could have walked-on at a mid-major D1 and was recruited by a few D3s across the nation, but she’s in a school that has a great program for what she’s interested in, gets to actually play and most games are 60 minutes away or less.

Amongst my friends, one played tennis at Redlands and one played club water polo at UVM. Both situations were picking the school first and then having the sports as a community within the school in addition to other friends you meet along the way.

Random aside, I was student teaching in Stamford and one of my students was being recruited by Notre Dame, Penn State, USC and countless others…including UConn. One day I asked him if there was any chance he’d pick UConn and knowing that I went there he said “No offense, but you’ve seen my offers. No way I’m going there.”

 

[gtcam]

Not basketball but soccer - my daughter could have played and been a starter on many D1 soccer teams including UConn
She did not want to be a D1 athlete - she was a 3 sport starter at one of CT's largest HS since her sophomore year and knew plenty of D1 players who explained to her the commitment and travel. She is a very committed player but the travel and being away from school was not her thing.
I coached soccer for over 25 years and wanted her to play D1 from the time she was U-9. Many of the players I coached who went D1 - a bunch of them ended up transferring to D2 and D3 schools.
My daughter ended playing D3 soccer in CT and achieving numerous awards for on field performance including AA status.
D1 is not for everyone - especially those who want to play as much as possible.
You go where you know in your heart you will be comfortable, however, if she is pro material - that is a different story

Best of luck and wishes for your daughter - its a big decision and really be based on academics and comfort before school name/status IMHO

 

[Deleted at users request]

I personally went through the decision of playing D3 or going to a bigger school and chose the later and am happy about the decision personally.

She can always walk on which is what I attempted to do until the schedule was just too much for something that wasn’t paying for me to be there. We had 5am workouts for a month before touching a basketball for the club team which was insane plus more. Practices was at 10-11pm at night.

If it doesn’t end up working out for her walking on athletically she can be happy she’s already at a school where she’s getting the most academically.

Someone who was actually on that club team with me dropped out for a semester his sophomore year to train, went to a juco, and then ended up starting at Tulsa his junior and senior year. Played against UConn a few times during the Ollie era which was cool to see.

There’s a lot of ways to skin a cat when it comes to making it D1. I know so many people who start off small and end up being like one of the best players on a team later on.

 

[husky8273]

Random aside, I was student teaching in Stamford and one of my students was being recruited by Notre Dame, Penn State, USC and countless others…including UConn. One day I asked him if there was any chance he’d pick UConn and knowing that I went there he said “No offense, but you’ve seen my offers. No way I’m going there.”

where did the student enroll?

 

[Icehawk]

The one thing I'd say is high amounts of student debt is a poor investment unless you are going into a very few specific fields. College doesn't need to be solely about being a "good investment" but I'd be leery of accumulating debt that can end up being a millstone, just ask me about it sometime.

 

[Mr. French]

I love this convo - this is my alley.

I’d go to a high academic D3 if they want her and she’ll play and get her degree. But only if she really wants to keep playing more than going to a big school. For me personally I’d do the D3 route 9/10.

I wish I knew anything when I was in HS, and I hope I have some similar decisions with my boys.

 

[NJHusky]

Wholly agree with this.

Three people close to me who weren’t D1 athletes followed this rule and all three are/were happy with their choices.

My niece plays soccer at a NAIA in Arizona. She could have walked-on at a mid-major D1 and was recruited by a few D3s across the nation, but she’s in a school that has a great program for what she’s interested in, gets to actually play and most games are 60 minutes away or less.

Amongst my friends, one played tennis at Redlands and one played club water polo at UVM. Both situations were picking the school first and then having the sports as a community within the school in addition to other friends you meet along the way.

Random aside, I was student teaching in Stamford and one of my students was being recruited by Notre Dame, Penn State, USC and countless others…including UConn. One day I asked him if there was any chance he’d pick UConn and knowing that I went there he said “No offense, but you’ve seen my offers. No way I’m going there.”

I’m assuming this kid didn’t play basketball

 

[yungdowork]

I love this convo - this is my alley.

I’d go to a high academic D3 if they want her and she’ll play and get her degree. But only if she really wants to keep playing more than going to a big school. For me personally I’d do the D3 route 9/10.

I wish I knew anything when I was in HS, and I hope I have some similar decisions with my boys.

Something to note about going this route is that athletes are a lot more likely to make connections at a school than the average student. I used to work in University Relations at one of the state schools, and quite a few employees were former athletes who got an opportunity from someone they met while they were students.

Couple that with the academic reputation of some of the NESCAC schools, and it's pretty easy to see how D3 sports can lead to some nice opportunities.

 

[Mr. French]

Something to note about going this route is that athletes are a lot more likely to make connections at a school than the average student. I used to work in University Relations at one of the state schools, and quite a few employees were former athletes who got an opportunity from someone they met while they were students.

Couple that with the academic reputation of some of the NESCAC schools, and it's pretty easy to see how D3 sports can lead to some nice opportunities.

100%

Everyone’s personal choice is just that, but I disagree with people saying basically d3 sports are useless (exaggerated paraphrasing). I know guys that get into high collegiate or pro sports or whatever world based on their D3 high academic sports connects.

I personally would agree to ensure you’re picking the right school, of course, but for me I’d much rather play high level D3 ball then just go to State U.

 

[CL82]

My daughter is a DIII athlete at a NESCAC.

Compared to the cost of a in-state public (NY), it costs us about $17,000 more once her scholarship figures in. We have one kid and we were going to pay whatever depending on where she wanted to go. Wasn’t a factor. While she applied as safety schools, we never visited Binghamton or Buffalo, the two most appealing of the SUNY flags. (We hear great things about Bing.)

As for the sport…it’s not easy. It’s a 5:30-7:30 am practice and a 3:30-5:30 practice. She seems to enjoy it and she navigates that, her classes, student gov and working in admissions as an advisor and tour guide. Not sure how.

She very much enjoys a second social group - she has her dorm friend group and her swimming friend group and seems to divide her weekends between them. She spends half of her winter break in Naples, Florida training…we’d rather have her here, but it is what it is.

Overall - seems very much like a positive experience.

Are you sure the opportunity to eat Connecticut lobster roll didn't play a factor in your decision?

 

[SubbaBub]

It's silly to go to a school for D3 sports. Club/intermutals are fine for participation purposes. If you are choosing between similar options, a D3 program can be tiebreaker.

Same goes for tuition, assuming means in not an issue. You don't pick the cheaper school unless it's a decider amongst otherwise equal choices. For me it was

1. Academic program (major/reputation)
2. Earning potential
3. Geography
4. Cost (Aid/ROTC options)

 

[Fishy]

Are you sure the opportunity to eat Connecticut lobster roll didn't play a factor in your decision?

I am not entertaining any of this nonsense and if you even suggest that the Mystic Diner’s magical 802-page menu or the muffins at Sift had any role here, I shall block you.

 

[upstater]

My daughter is a DIII athlete at a NESCAC.

Compared to the cost of a in-state public (NY), it costs us about $17,000 more once her scholarship figures in. We have one kid and we were going to pay whatever depending on where she wanted to go. Wasn’t a factor. While she applied as safety schools, we never visited Binghamton or Buffalo, the two most appealing of the SUNY flags. (We hear great things about Bing.)

As for the sport…it’s not easy. It’s a 5:30-7:30 am practice and a 3:30-5:30 practice. She seems to enjoy it and she navigates that, her classes, student gov and working in admissions as an advisor and tour guide. Not sure how.

She very much enjoys a second social group - she has her dorm friend group and her swimming friend group and seems to divide her weekends between them. She spends half of her winter break in Naples, Florida training…we’d rather have her here, but it is what it is.

Overall - seems very much like a positive experience.

We just toured her school this weekend! She most know the Nigerian rugby player from England who took us around. I was impressed by the school.

 

[upstater]

About D3 and athletics, the secret that few people talk about is that the teams will be partially stocked with students who are decent or marginal athletes, because they are students from affluent families. These families use the summer athletics special admissions window to shoehorn their kid into the school. Otherwise, the student would not be admitted based on grades, etc. This helps the school because it allows them to lock down their budget with full payers long before the Early Admissions window. This is also the reason why 35% of students at these schools play on sports teams, and why prep schools often require all students to participate in sports. Varsity Blues is very real. This doesn't mean of course that top athletes don't play D3 or that all D3 athletes are full payers. Not at all.

 

[UConnRock]

I am a UConn fan, but did not go to UConn. I played baseball at a D-III school. Loved the experience and my personality at age 18 was a better fit in the small college atmosphere. No complaints about my overall experience in a small liberal arts school. As I got older I was jealous of the folks who went to the large schools and had deeply engrained rooting interests. Living in the south now, I see the emotion and connection that kids have for their schools. I do feel like I missed out some aspects of the college eperience.

As far as the financial burden, it was not an issue for my family as the D-lll school came up with enough $$ to be competitive with in-state tuition. Questions to ask:

- Taking finances and athletics out of the equation, what school is the student most comfortable attending?
- If the student blew out a knee or just became burned out with athletics and academics would she be happy at the small school.
- Is missing out on college athletics something that the student or parents would regret?
- Is the financial burden enough to focus on other D-lll schools that may fork over more aid?

If I had it to do over again, I don't know what decision I would make. It is a very tough call when a athlete has been so dedicated to a sport most of their young life and they have to decide whether their competitive playing career is done or can be extended a few years.

 

[Fishy]

We just toured her school this weekend! She most know the Nigerian rugby player from England who took us around. I was impressed by the school.

I’m sure - they all seem to know everyone.

You missed her by a week! She goes back early next week before the freshmen roll in, but not sure when she starts giving tours. You might be fortunate…the kid is a talker and they pay by the hour. You’d be touring the parking lots and broom closets.

Were you there with a kid in tow or there as an educator?

 

[upstater]

I’m sure - they all seem to know everyone.

You missed her by a week! She goes back early next week before the freshmen roll in, but not sure when she starts giving tours. You might be fortunate…the kid is a talker and they pay by the hour. You’d be touring the parking lots and broom closets.

Were you there with a kid in tow or there as an educator?

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

 

[Chuck]

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

My wife went to a Quaker college with a strict honor code. To this day she thinks it’s weird that someone would cheat and that someone wouldn’t report it if they did. I think the kids at these schools take the honor code very seriously. And tiny schools can pull it off. Good luck in your search, with or without soccer.

 

[Fishy]

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

They take the honor code seriously. A student in my daughter’s FYS was caught plagiarizing an entry from Wikipedia and sent to the honor council - they suspended him for the spring semester.

The ‘schedule your own tests’ thing does not really seem to come into play.

It wasn’t really my first choice for her - I was actually set against it until I took a trip out on my own to visit. The size concerned me, but I was slowly sold on it being a positive. And it has been - professors and students seem to know each other better than they might at a larger school. Most of them hosted a class at their house or had the class over for dinner or barbecues during the semester.

Her FYS took her to New York and Boston and her Russian class spent ten days in Tblisi, Georgia.

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

If Conn moves from maybe to possible, let me know and we can put our daughter’s in touch. My daughter tends to be brutally honest about things.

 

[upstater]

They take the honor code seriously. A student in my daughter’s FYS was caught plagiarizing an entry from Wikipedia and sent to the honor council - they suspended him for the spring semester.

The ‘schedule your own tests’ thing does not really seem to come into play.

It wasn’t really my first choice for her - I was actually set against it until I took a trip out on my own to visit. The size concerned me, but I was slowly sold on it being a positive. And it has been - professors and students seem to know each other better than they might at a larger school. Most of them hosted a class at their house or had the class over for dinner or barbecues during the semester.

Her FYS took her to New York and Boston and her Russian class spent ten days in Tblisi, Georgia.

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

If Conn moves from maybe to possible, let me know and we can put our daughter’s in touch. My daughter tends to be brutally honest about things.

Thanks Fishy. Will do. Appreciate it. We already noted the limited food options. But it’s valuable to know the “”schedule your test” is something happening in theory. Not usually.

 

[upstater]

My wife went to a Quaker college with a strict honor code. To this day she thinks it’s weird that someone would cheat and that someone wouldn’t report it if they did. I think the kids at these schools take the honor code very seriously. And tiny schools can pull it off. Good luck in your search, with or without soccer.

It will be without soccer. I played club sports in college. That seems to be what I want for her and I think it’s the route she will take. Even tho she’s an excellent athlete I don’t want her to go thru what my student athletes do. They give me their forms on the 1st day, and then I only see them half the time. Had a kid that left for NBA camp in April never to be seen again. Quite a dilemma for everyone involved.

 

[Chuck]

It will be without soccer. I played club sports in college. That seems to be what I want for her and I think it’s the route she will take. Even tho she’s an excellent athlete I don’t want her to go thru what my student athletes do. They give me their forms on the 1st day, and then I only see them half the time. Had a kid that left for NBA camp in April never to be seen again. Quite a dilemma for everyone involved.

my kids will be playing their last year of school soccer this fall. My daughter is looking at similar schools, but has preferred the slightly bigger (3k schools). Food looked great at those!

 

[yungdowork]

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

I have filmed a lot of sports at Conn and it is like pulling teeth trying to get them to do anything sometimes. I haven't personally dealt with maintenance too much, but it seems like every decision made on campus has to be okayed by like 3 different people and everything takes forever.

When we film hockey there, we have to set up our camera in the same bleachers the crowd is jumping up and down on during the 3rd period. We asked about getting a table or something so the broadcast would be better (their student scorekeepers have one) but that got tied up in the bureaucracy somehow.