OT: Did the Patriots make a mistake letting Jimmy G go?

[intlzncster]

Piggybacking on what I mentioned earlier, here's a good graphic that illustrates one of the big reasons Tom is struggling:

Pass block win rate (x) by pass rush win rate (y).​

​

PBWR = the rate each team sustains all of its pass blocks for 2.5s. ​

​

PRWR = rate at least one rusher beats his blocker within 2.5s.​

​

Top right quadrant = good at both​

Bottom left = bad at both.​

​

The Patriots are particularly interesting here. Defensively, this speaks to how good their secondary is. Offensively, this is a drastic change from last season when they had excellent pass blocking.​

​

ESPN stat, Next Gen Stats data​

​

 

[ctchamps]

They really only had one truly successful drive, the 1st one.

It was right after that drive that he huddled with his defense.

 

[B1GEast]

And Jacoby turned out pretty good too.

Jimmy G is good - but they are winning due to that D in SF. Wow that was a beatdown last night.

The Defense feeds off the offense that limits turnovers and can manage the game. Besides The SF offense deserve just as much credit. Shanahan's offense is creative

 

[HuskyHawk]

Piggybacking on what I mentioned earlier, here's a good graphic that illustrates one of the big reasons Tom is struggling:

Pass block win rate (x) by pass rush win rate (y).​

​

PBWR = the rate each team sustains all of its pass blocks for 2.5s. ​

​

PRWR = rate at least one rusher beats his blocker within 2.5s.​

​

Top right quadrant = good at both​

Bottom left = bad at both.​

​

The Patriots are particularly interesting here. Defensively, this speaks to how good their secondary is. Offensively, this is a drastic change from last season when they had excellent pass blocking.​

​

View attachment 48548​

ESPN stat, Next Gen Stats data​

​

Well their starting center has missed the season. Their starting left tackle played for the first time yesterday. The backup LT also missed time. They also lost their best blocking TE to retirement and FB to injury. So it's not the same guys as last year.

It has been bad, but Tom also has been a little slower to adjust away from his primary reads and get rid of the ball. The two things combined, along with general immobility, have produced bad results.

 

[upstater]

I don't feel like the Pats have been shellshocked with injuries that no one else has had.

David Andrews, Isaiah Wynn, James Develin, Jakob Johnson, Mo Sanu, Dorsett, that's a hefty part of the offense. Gronk retired, but the two replacements (LaCosse and Izzo) have been hurt all year. Blame Belichick for not having even a UDFA ready to go as a backup tackle. When Wynn went down, they picked up a guy off the street that had me thinking perhaps they'd be better off playing with 10 men. They had no LT to block, no TEs to block, no FB to block. It was a huge issue. Until they got Wynn back yesterday.

They had 5 starters missing from last year's team.

 

[upstater]

Disagree. He’s not going to leave the 15 year juggernaut that he built, to start over elsewhere, over Kraft vetoing him on Jimmy.

Here's how I know this was never an issue: the 49ers called to trade for Brady. Within seconds, Belichick told them, "Are they joking?" He never brought it to Kraft.

 

[upstater]

I'm pretty confident that Brady hasn't lost anything off his arm strength or accuracy. When the two starting wideouts come back, the Patriots offense will start to roll, and it will be the same old Brady.

 

[Deepster]

David Andrews, Isaiah Wynn, James Develin, Jakob Johnson, Mo Sanu, Dorsett, that's a hefty part of the offense. Gronk retired, but the two replacements (LaCosse and Izzo) have been hurt all year. Blame Belichick for not having even a UDFA ready to go as a backup tackle. When Wynn went down, they picked up a guy off the street that had me thinking perhaps they'd be better off playing with 10 men. They had no LT to block, no TEs to block, no FB to block. It was a huge issue. Until they got Wynn back yesterday.

They had 5 starters missing from last year's team.

You missed Mo Sanu for a game.
The Saints lost Brees and went 5-1. They also went 3-0 without Kamara.

Stop the spinning on this one. Teddy Bridgewater and Latavius Murray held the fort down.

 

[intlzncster]

Well their starting center has missed the season. Their starting left tackle played for the first time yesterday. The backup LT also missed time. They also lost their best blocking TE to retirement and FB to injury. So it's not the same guys as last year.

That's entirely the point.

And they also lost the backup FB to injury for the season. And lost a replacement TE to injury for the season. And lost primary backup swing tackle last year. And so on and so forth.

Basically they lost 60-70% of their primary blockers for one reason or another.

It has been bad, but Tom also has been a little slower to adjust away from his primary reads and get rid of the ball. The two things combined, along with general immobility, have produced bad results.

A lot of the guys he's been throwing to are new. Or are in and then out. They thrive on repetition, and when there's not stability in the wide receiver corps, you don't have that. You can see so may times this year where Tom has been throwing to wide open space and a receiver hasn't been there. He thinks they'll see what he sees, but they don't.

Combined with the pocket collapsing immediately, he's fixated more on the primary read.

 

[upstater]

You missed Mo Sanu for a game.
The Saints lost Brees and went 5-1. They also went 3-0 without Kamara.

Stop the spinning on this one. Teddy Bridgewater and Latavius Murray held the fort down.

????

Patriots are 10-1.

What in the world are you talking about?

They've had WRs hurt all season long. Even Edelman busted his ribs. Both TEs out for many games. WRs out. Not just Sanu. The only healthy one has been Meyers, an undrafted FA. 5 starting OL-FB on IR. 2 TEs out for many games.

 

[intlzncster]

You missed Mo Sanu for a game.
The Saints lost Brees and went 5-1. They also went 3-0 without Kamara.
Stop the spinning on this one. Teddy Bridgewater and Latavius Murray held the fort down.

This is because they are much deeper and better on offense than the Pats. Which is what I've been saying. New Orleans have so much on offense that they win with Teddy B.

Pats aren't deep on offense, and they've lost a volume of guys. It compounds.

NO has the 13th least injured team, though their injuries are significant (Brees).

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's entirely the point.

And they also lost the backup FB to injury for the season. And lost a replacement TE to injury for the season. And lost primary backup swing tackle last year. And so on and so forth.

Basically they lost 60-70% of their primary blockers for one reason or another.



A lot of the guys he's been throwing to are new. Or are in and then out. They thrive on repetition, and when there's not stability in the wide receiver corps, you don't have that. You can see so may times this year where Tom has been throwing to wide open space and a receiver hasn't been there. He thinks they'll see what he sees, but they don't.

Combined with the pocket collapsing immediately, he's fixated more on the primary read.

Yes, and that throwing to a spot is something that is fairly Brady specific. Many WR have talked about how he doesn't throw to the open man as much to how he reads the D and expects the WR to read it the same way. Most QB's are different. The Brady approach is harder to execute, and harder to defend.

That said, he's totally missed guys like James White and Edelman over and over this year. His throws to the outside in particular seem off. His throws over the middle seem fine.

 

[Deepster]

This is because they are much deeper and better on offense than the Pats. Which is what I've been saying. New Orleans have so much on offense that they win with Teddy B.

Pats aren't deep on offense, and they've lost a volume of guys. It compounds.

NO has the 13th least injured team, though their injuries are significant (Brees).

Sorry. Not buying it. They won with Bridgewater, retread Lat Murray, Ted Ginn, Ben Watson. Upstater is making it seem like they're 10-1 with me at WR.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This is because they are much deeper and better on offense than the Pats. Which is what I've been saying. New Orleans have so much on offense that they win with Teddy B.

Pats aren't deep on offense, and they've lost a volume of guys. It compounds.

NO has the 13th least injured team, though their injuries are significant (Brees).

Tedy Bridgewater is a starting caliber QB anyway. If he didn't get hurt he'd still be starting in Minnesota. He's sure as hell better than anybody on the Bears, Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, etc.

 

[intlzncster]

Sorry. Not buying it. They won with Bridgewater, retread Lat Murray, Ted Ginn, Ben Watson. Upstater is making it seem like they're 10-1 with me at WR.

Ben Watson is on the Pats. You mean last year? No idea what you are even talking about. Carry on.

Didn't read upstaters post. They've usually had two competent wide receivers on the field this year (not last wee). Very few competent blockers tho. Hell, had to play a TE as an OL one game because they had so few personnel available.

 

[BlueDogs]

Hard to say something’s wrong at 10-1, but the eyes don’t lie. There’s a problem with TB throwing (injury more serious than may appear) and it’s exacerbated by a garbage line and no big time receivers.

 

[upstater]

Yes, and that throwing to a spot is something that is fairly Brady specific. Many WR have talked about how he doesn't throw to the open man as much to how he reads the D and expects the WR to read it the same way. Most QB's are different. The Brady approach is harder to execute, and harder to defend.

That said, he's totally missed guys like James White and Edelman over and over this year. His throws to the outside in particular seem off. His throws over the middle seem fine.

I tend to think he was throwing the ball away after 1.5 seconds. He knew he had no one to protect his blindside. Yesterday he was a totally different QB. He held the ball and didn't do any of that stuff. He had time with Wynn back, and he was looking downfield. I expect the same will start happening soon.

 

[ZooCougar]

They should really sign better receivers then in New England. That might really come in handy for Kraft.

 

[intlzncster]

They should really sign better receivers then in New England. That might really come in handy for Kraft.

Not your best zoo. A for effort?

 

[ZooCougar]

Not your best zoo. A for effort?

it will come to me sooner or later