OT: Did the Patriots make a mistake letting Jimmy G go?

[Deepster]

What on this thread was lulzable? That a Jets fan instigated sports debate?

As a Jets fan, I feel a lot better knowing that a) Brady looks to be slowing down significantly and b) there's no one behind him learning right now.

 

[intlzncster]

You think a trade to SF for a 2nd round draft pick is the best they could’ve got at the time? This trade came off Garoppolo going like 4-0 in that year, right?

2-0. He got hurt early in the third game.

I do think that's the best offer they got. Remember, teams knew they would have to franchise him after that, at minimum. Reports are that the browns offered a little more. But that's coming from Sachi Brown, who I believe about as much as [pick a politician]. Also, if Bill liked Jimmy as much as they say, he wouldn't want to trade him to an AFC opponent.

What people are saying with this is that Bill deliberately hurt his team, for what, to get back at Kraft? For some other non football reason? That doesn't jive with anything we know about Bill Belichick and his history. You really think Bill's going to hurt his team for personal reasons? He might be the most unsentimental guy in all professional sports.

Now you can argue he made a mistake by not trading Jimmy in the offseason, and could have gotten more than a 2nd at that point. But we can only speculate.

 

[intlzncster]

As a Jets fan, I feel a lot better knowing that a) Brady looks to be slowing down significantly and b) there's no one behind him learning right now.

If they do something constructive with the offense in the offseason, he'll pop mvp type numbers again. I'm willing to bet on that.

I think this year could be tough offensively. Personnel is what it is.

No consistency of personnel game to game. The guy thrown receptions to 17 different players this year.

 

[donyell34]

Wrong deep, Patriots have Stidman developing and like him. Nobody hears anything about him and some think Hoyer is still there. Good arm, size, football IQ and played high end college football at Auburn.

 

[intlzncster]

Wrong deep, Patriots have Stidman developing and like him. Nobody hears anything about him and some think Hoyer is still there. Good arm, size, football IQ and played high end college football at Auburn.

Hopefully doesn't play for another 3-4 years tho.

 

[Deepster]

Wrong deep, Patriots have Stidman developing and like him. Nobody hears anything about him and some think Hoyer is still there. Good arm, size, football IQ and played high end college football at Auburn.

Well, to be fair, you don't know that I'm wrong. Stidman is a prospect who fell significantly his senior year and hasn't done anything on an NFL football field.

And he played briefly at Auburn. He went to Baylor, didn't play a lot his first year then transferred. And his numbers at Auburn were "okay".

 

[HuskyHawk]

2-0. He got hurt early in the third game.

I do think that's the best offer they got. Remember, teams knew they would have to franchise him after that, at minimum. Reports are that the browns offered a little more. But that's coming from Sachi Brown, who I believe about as much as [pick a politician]. Also, if Bill liked Jimmy as much as they say, he wouldn't want to trade him to an AFC opponent.

What people are saying with this is that Bill deliberately hurt his team, for what, to get back at Kraft? For some other non football reason? That doesn't jive with anything we know about Bill Belichick and his history. You really think Bill's going to hurt his team for personal reasons? He might be the most unsentimental guy in all professional sports.

Now you can argue he made a mistake by not trading Jimmy in the offseason, and could have gotten more than a 2nd at that point. But we can only speculate.

It was a mistake in hindsight. I am sure they could get more in the offseason. But Bill knew he had a super bowl contender with an aging QB. Keeping Jimmy was insurance. Once he saw how Tom performed, he brought Hoyer back for free and traded Jimmy. Bigger mistake might have been giving Brisset away, although I didn't think so at the time.

Stidham is the guy I wanted them to draft. Loads of talent and just needs to harness it. For @Deepster , I guarantee you he is learning every day whether he plays or not. He's facing the best secondary in the league in practice and Tom and Josh are teaching him.

 

[Waquoit]

As a Jets fan, I feel a lot better knowing that a) Brady looks to be slowing down significantly and b) there's no one behind him learning right now.

It's when BB leaves when things will revert to the mean.

 

[Deepster]

For @Deepster , I guarantee you he is learning every day whether he plays or not. He's facing the best secondary in the league in practice and Tom and Josh are teaching him.

Well, again...you can't guarantee anything.

Mark Sanchez had a far better final year in college and went up against the best defense/secondary in football in practice every day. I could easily list out 10 other guys just like this who didn't succeed.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's football. The coaching staff matters more than anything else.

 

[Waquoit]

Mark Sanchez had a far better final year in college and went up against the best defense/secondary in football in practice every day. I could easily list out 10 other guys just like this who didn't succeed.

OTOH, Matt Cassell only threw 33 passes in college and went 11-5 with Belichick.

 

[B1GEast]

The Patriots don't make mistakes, they capitalize on other teams mistakes.

Thanks to Belichek, they are the most pragmatic organization, ever

 

[ctchamps]

It's football. The coaching staff matters more than anything else.

The Eagles were having their way with NE 1st quarter. They panned to the sideline and BB was huddled with the defensive unit. I knew at that moment the game was over for Philadelphia. The guy is a genius at understanding strengths and weakness of teams and players, his included.

 

[intlzncster]

It's football. The coaching staff matters more than anything else.

If you don't have a very, very good QB, you aren't winning consistently. Sure, you can punch through now and again, but to win year in year out, you gotta have that guy.

 

[intlzncster]

The Eagles were having their way with NE 1st quarter. They panned to the sideline and BB was huddled with the defensive unit. I knew at that moment the game was over for Philadelphia. The guy is a genius at understanding strengths and weakness of teams and players, his included.

They really only had one truly successful drive, the 1st one.

 

[intlzncster]

OTOH, Matt Cassell only threw 33 passes in college and went 11-5 with Belichick.

In fairness, he was playing with a phenomenal defense and offensive firepower that year. 2007 was one of the best teams I've ever seen, and most returned for that 2008 season. They were stacked. It's not like his numbers were very good.

Cassell also went to the Pro Bowl in KC.

 

[intlzncster]

Well, to be fair, you don't know that I'm wrong. Stidman is a prospect who fell significantly his senior year and hasn't done anything on an NFL football field.

And he played briefly at Auburn. He went to Baylor, didn't play a lot his first year then transferred. And his numbers at Auburn were "okay".

Nobody knows how anybody is though. It's really, really hard to predict who's going to be a successful QB in this league.

You just got to keep drafting, develop like hell, and hope you hit.

 

[J187Money]

yeah I don’t understand how this gets confused. jimmy got what.. 90$ million guaranteed on the free market? Patriots were not paying a quarterback that after 4 games while simultaneously cutting Tom Brady who just won you another super bowl. They were never keeping 2 QBs making 20+ million. It was bad timing.

He didn't actually even play in all 4. Jacoby played in one of them I think because Jimmy got hurt.

 

[bazz&boujee]

He didn't actually even play in all 4. Jacoby played in one of them I think because Jimmy got hurt.

you right, he actually only played in 2. got hurt in miami game.

 

[J187Money]

And Jacoby turned out pretty good too.

Jimmy G is good - but they are winning due to that D in SF. Wow that was a beatdown last night.

 

[intlzncster]

Piggybacking on what I mentioned earlier, here's a good graphic that illustrates one of the big reasons Tom is struggling:

Pass block win rate (x) by pass rush win rate (y).​

​

PBWR = the rate each team sustains all of its pass blocks for 2.5s. ​

​

PRWR = rate at least one rusher beats his blocker within 2.5s.​

​

Top right quadrant = good at both​

Bottom left = bad at both.​

​

The Patriots are particularly interesting here. Defensively, this speaks to how good their secondary is. Offensively, this is a drastic change from last season when they had excellent pass blocking.​

​

ESPN stat, Next Gen Stats data​

​

 

[ctchamps]

They really only had one truly successful drive, the 1st one.

It was right after that drive that he huddled with his defense.

 

[B1GEast]

And Jacoby turned out pretty good too.

Jimmy G is good - but they are winning due to that D in SF. Wow that was a beatdown last night.

The Defense feeds off the offense that limits turnovers and can manage the game. Besides The SF offense deserve just as much credit. Shanahan's offense is creative

 

[HuskyHawk]

Piggybacking on what I mentioned earlier, here's a good graphic that illustrates one of the big reasons Tom is struggling:

Pass block win rate (x) by pass rush win rate (y).​

​

PBWR = the rate each team sustains all of its pass blocks for 2.5s. ​

​

PRWR = rate at least one rusher beats his blocker within 2.5s.​

​

Top right quadrant = good at both​

Bottom left = bad at both.​

​

The Patriots are particularly interesting here. Defensively, this speaks to how good their secondary is. Offensively, this is a drastic change from last season when they had excellent pass blocking.​

​

View attachment 48548​

ESPN stat, Next Gen Stats data​

​

Well their starting center has missed the season. Their starting left tackle played for the first time yesterday. The backup LT also missed time. They also lost their best blocking TE to retirement and FB to injury. So it's not the same guys as last year.

It has been bad, but Tom also has been a little slower to adjust away from his primary reads and get rid of the ball. The two things combined, along with general immobility, have produced bad results.

 

[upstater]

I don't feel like the Pats have been shellshocked with injuries that no one else has had.

David Andrews, Isaiah Wynn, James Develin, Jakob Johnson, Mo Sanu, Dorsett, that's a hefty part of the offense. Gronk retired, but the two replacements (LaCosse and Izzo) have been hurt all year. Blame Belichick for not having even a UDFA ready to go as a backup tackle. When Wynn went down, they picked up a guy off the street that had me thinking perhaps they'd be better off playing with 10 men. They had no LT to block, no TEs to block, no FB to block. It was a huge issue. Until they got Wynn back yesterday.

They had 5 starters missing from last year's team.

 

[upstater]

Disagree. He’s not going to leave the 15 year juggernaut that he built, to start over elsewhere, over Kraft vetoing him on Jimmy.

Here's how I know this was never an issue: the 49ers called to trade for Brady. Within seconds, Belichick told them, "Are they joking?" He never brought it to Kraft.

 

[upstater]

I'm pretty confident that Brady hasn't lost anything off his arm strength or accuracy. When the two starting wideouts come back, the Patriots offense will start to roll, and it will be the same old Brady.

 

[Deepster]

David Andrews, Isaiah Wynn, James Develin, Jakob Johnson, Mo Sanu, Dorsett, that's a hefty part of the offense. Gronk retired, but the two replacements (LaCosse and Izzo) have been hurt all year. Blame Belichick for not having even a UDFA ready to go as a backup tackle. When Wynn went down, they picked up a guy off the street that had me thinking perhaps they'd be better off playing with 10 men. They had no LT to block, no TEs to block, no FB to block. It was a huge issue. Until they got Wynn back yesterday.

They had 5 starters missing from last year's team.

You missed Mo Sanu for a game.
The Saints lost Brees and went 5-1. They also went 3-0 without Kamara.

Stop the spinning on this one. Teddy Bridgewater and Latavius Murray held the fort down.

 

[intlzncster]

Well their starting center has missed the season. Their starting left tackle played for the first time yesterday. The backup LT also missed time. They also lost their best blocking TE to retirement and FB to injury. So it's not the same guys as last year.

That's entirely the point.

And they also lost the backup FB to injury for the season. And lost a replacement TE to injury for the season. And lost primary backup swing tackle last year. And so on and so forth.

Basically they lost 60-70% of their primary blockers for one reason or another.

It has been bad, but Tom also has been a little slower to adjust away from his primary reads and get rid of the ball. The two things combined, along with general immobility, have produced bad results.

A lot of the guys he's been throwing to are new. Or are in and then out. They thrive on repetition, and when there's not stability in the wide receiver corps, you don't have that. You can see so may times this year where Tom has been throwing to wide open space and a receiver hasn't been there. He thinks they'll see what he sees, but they don't.

Combined with the pocket collapsing immediately, he's fixated more on the primary read.

 

[upstater]

You missed Mo Sanu for a game.
The Saints lost Brees and went 5-1. They also went 3-0 without Kamara.

Stop the spinning on this one. Teddy Bridgewater and Latavius Murray held the fort down.

????

Patriots are 10-1.

What in the world are you talking about?

They've had WRs hurt all season long. Even Edelman busted his ribs. Both TEs out for many games. WRs out. Not just Sanu. The only healthy one has been Meyers, an undrafted FA. 5 starting OL-FB on IR. 2 TEs out for many games.