Delany: 'We pursue championships'

[SouthronCross]

I tell you what, my Wahoo loving friend.. If the Huskies and Cavaliers walk hand in hand into the BiG, well that would be awesome.... Here's to the great John Casteen!!!!!

UVA and UNC are peer institutions. Fellow Public Ivys, and, the South's most played rivalry, now that Texas-Texas A&M has been put on hold. I really doubt that one would leave the ACC for the B1G, without the other.

 

[UConnDan97]

UVA and UNC are peer institutions. Fellow Public Ivys, and, the South's most played rivalry, now that Texas-Texas A&M has been put on hold. I really doubt that one would leave the ACC for the B1G, without the other.

Don't be so sure. Money changes everything. I never thought I would see a world where Texas and Texas A&M didn't battle. I didn't think I would see a world without West Virginia - Pitt, either. Or Missouri - Kansas. If there is one thing that conference realignment has taught me, it's that tradition doesn't matter. It's all about the Benjamins...

 

[woomba]

If the B1G considers women's lacrosse a revenue sport, I will start questioning how much intelligence is really a factor in those AAU requirements. Most women's lacrosse games are played in front of parents and devoted boyfriends. I'd like for us to be better at it for Your Corporation Here Cup points (and I like to be good at everything), but not because we need the extra revenue stream.

Well, that speculation is because I'm working backwards to try to get to 17 since its actually closer to 90 NCAA championships since 1998.

 

[woomba]

Thats pretty big talk coming from Delany, considering they haven't won jack lately.

How many have they won this century, compared to the ACC, or, the BE/AAC?

If you look at the entire NCAA and not just FB and BBall it's pretty competitive - pretty sure it's higher than both ACC and BE/AAC, especially if you don't just look at team championships but also include individual wins

Big Ten had probably more 2nd place finishes than wins for the past few decades in FB/BB though :|

 

[Gurleyman]

Well, that speculation is because I'm working backwards to try to get to 17 since its actually closer to 90 NCAA championships since 1998.

Gotcha - I sort of looked at the list in isolation and not the full context of your point.

 

[itgoeslike]

If you look at the entire NCAA and not just FB and BBall it's pretty competitive - pretty sure it's higher than both ACC and BE/AAC, especially if you don't just look at team championships but also include individual wins

Big Ten had probably more 2nd place finishes than wins for the past few decades in FB/BB though :|

When it comes to high profile national championships: FB, MBB, Hockey, and WBB—UCONN has won more National Championships than the BIG Ten Conference has won over the past 15 years (sorry, women's lacrosse doesn't make the cut, at least for now). Throw in Men's soccer and baseball, and UCONN is still out in front. One school versus an entire conference. There really isn't any way to sugarcoat it when it comes to high profile National Championships. Please stop trying.

The B1G would improve their chances for high-profile national championships considerably, and instantaneously, if they were to add the University of Connecticut.

 

[woomba]

When it comes to high profile national championships: FB, MBB, Hockey, and WBB—UCONN has won more National Championships than the BIG Ten Conference has won over the past 15 years (sorry, women's lacrosse doesn't make the cut, at least for now). Throw in Men's soccer and baseball, and UCONN is still out in front. One school versus an entire conference. There really isn't any way to sugarcoat it when it comes to high profile National Championships. Please stop trying.

The B1G would improve their chances for high-profile national championships considerably, and instantaneously, if they were to add the University of Connecticut.

I'm not trying to state anything - the only thing I'm trying to dispel is the notion that the Big Ten won 17 NCAA championships total over the past 15 years, which is what the past 2 pages of comments have been all about and is factually untrue.

As UConn has found out, championships by itself isn't a good measure of school value anyway.

 

[specialisthusky]

As UConn has found out, championships by itself isn't a good measure of school value anyway.

Which is ironic considering until recently I thought that was the point of college sports.

 

[itgoeslike]

I'm not trying to state anything - the only thing I'm trying to dispel is the notion that the Big Ten won 17 NCAA championships total over the past 15 years, which is what the past 2 pages of comments have been all about and is factually untrue.

As UConn has found out, championships by itself isn't a good measure of school value anyway.

Conference Realignment isn't a good measure of school value. . .

You seem to be confused, the person attempting to put value on championships was Delany. He was also the one quoting the B1G's championships at 17 over the past 15 years, which you attempted to substantiate by utilizing women's lacrosse championships along with the suggestion that JHU lacrosse championships could be part of the tally. Delany would have been better served saying that the B1G has won championships in over 17 NCAA sports over the past 15 years. At least that would have been more accurate and more impressive. The B1G would benefit from adding a school that actually wins championships and ups their overall academic profile.

BTW, did I say anything that was factually inaccurate? I don't think so.

 

[Adios]

The present unpleasantness towards UConn is coming from your former BE brethren, IMHO.

I do not understand their points of view. All of you seemed to be good conference mates in the old BE. That makes their stance towards you now crazy in my book.

From what I've been able to gather, the pettiness is not coming from the ACC's original members. They were ready to vote you in, especially the Tobacco Road schools. Clemson certainly voted against UConn, but, that was 100 percent football-related.

If the ACC decides to expand again and we are not taken in by the B1G, I'd have to assume UConn is #1 on the list.

 

[woomba]

Conference Realignment isn't a good measure of school value. . .

You seem to be confused, the person attempting to put value on championships was Delany. He was also the one quoting the B1G's championships at 17 over the past 15 years, which you attempted to substantiate by utilizing women's lacrosse championships along with the suggestion that JHU lacrosse championships could be part of the tally. Delany would have been better served saying that the B1G has won championships in over 17 NCAA sports over the past 15 years. At least that would have been more accurate and more impressive. The B1G would benefit from adding a school that actually wins championships and ups their overall academic profile.

BTW, did I say anything that was factually inaccurate? I don't think so.

lol - what I was doing was just trying to make sense of his numbers. Maybe he misspoke and meant to say 17 sports - who knows at this point.

How does UConn up the Big Ten's overall academic profile? It matches the lower tier Big Ten schools but I wouldn't place it in the Top 7 of the conference, which would be required to "improve the overall academic profile" as you state is "factually correct".

 

[itgoeslike]

lol - what I was doing was just trying to make sense of his numbers. Maybe he misspoke and meant to say 17 sports - who knows at this point.

How does UConn up the Big Ten's overall academic profile? It matches the lower tier Big Ten schools but I wouldn't place it in the Top 7 of the conference, which would be required to "improve the overall academic profile" as you state is "factually correct".

The reality is that the entire conference hasn't won a NC in football or basketball over the past decade, and they would benefit from adding schools that do. With regard to academics, Northwestern is the only elite school (please don't try to shoe-horn in UChicago or JHU), with Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois decidedly better. Everybody else is on on par with or lags UCONN. This will become more obvious in the coming months and in the coming years. UCONN will strengthen the B1G's academic profile.

So, it sounds like you concur with all the national championship facts I posted. . .

 

[woomba]

The reality is that the entire conference hasn't won a NC in football or basketball over the past decade, and they would benefit from adding schools that do.

Why so? Big Ten has its own basketball brands that was only a game or two away from winning the tourney - and pulls in higher basketball revenues than UConn even without winning it all. Why would there be a need to add another brand?

UConn has also yet to show that they can win a tourney with a new HC so the jury is still out as well.

With regard to academics, Northwestern is the only elite school (please don't try to shoe-horn in UChicago or JHU), with Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois decidedly better. Everybody else is on on par with or lags UCONN. This will become more obvious in the coming months and in the coming years. UCONN will strengthen the B1G's academic profile.

So Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois + Penn State, Maryland, Ohio State...hey, that's at least 7 ahead of UConn without even bringing up UChicago/JHU. So how does that improve academics?

So, it sounds like you concur with all the national championship facts I posted. . .

Did I ever dispute that UConn has had a lot of success in basketball in the past 2 decades? No.
Do I think there is a need for the Big Ten to add a school purely based on its Basketball prowess? No.

Do I think UConn has an outside shot at the Big Ten? Yes.

 

[NickyNewark]

Congrats, you won in CR. the one and ONLY thing you have or EVER will win at.

Grow up!!

 

[J187Money]

I get a kick out of the polo thing. I mean CT does have some serious agrarian roots and I grew up surrounded by corn and cows... but polo?

That's how you get the Fairfield county crowd. Polo tie-ins.

I remember running across a polo club in Darien on a bike ride when I lived in Stamford. Was like I went through a wormhole and ended up in an alternate universe.

 

[IMind]

That's how you get the Fairfield county crowd. Polo tie-ins.

I remember running across a polo club in Darien on a bike ride when I lived in Stamford. Was like I went through a wormhole and ended up in an alternate universe.

I felt the same way when I suddenly stumbled on a cricket club when driving my son to a hockey game just outside of Philadelphia. Just very odd.

 

[itgoeslike]

Why so? Big Ten has its own basketball brands that was only a game or two away from winning the tourney - and pulls in higher basketball revenues than UConn even without winning it all. Why would there be a need to add another brand?

UConn has also yet to show that they can win a tourney with a new HC so the jury is still out as well.




So Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois + Penn State, Maryland, Ohio State...hey, that's at least 7 ahead of UConn without even bringing up UChicago/JHU. So how does that improve academics?



Did I ever dispute that UConn has had a lot of success in basketball in the past 2 decades? No.
Do I think there is a need for the Big Ten to add a school purely based on its Basketball prowess? No.

Do I think UConn has an outside shot at the Big Ten? Yes.

In terms of academics, Penn State may still have an edge, but Ohio State and Maryland are comparable to UCONN. What you tend to do is marginalize UCONN's accomplishments. In academics, you stated that UCONN would be "lower tier", which suggests they would be at the bottom of the conference, perhaps behind behind Rutgers, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana and by default, way behind Ohio State and Maryland. That is simply not the case. I'm not saying that UCONN is rivaling Northwestern for the top spot, but we're not bringing up the rear either.

You've regularly pointed out that UCONN is lacking a "top tier" Football program. But, the fact is they have played as well as or better than many P5 teams over the past 10 years. Here are some facts.

- Only 9 teams in the nation had more NFL draft picks this year
- UCONN had more NFL draft picks than every team in the Big Ten this year
- UCONN has more players in the NFL than many P5 schools
- Its facilities are among the top ten in the nation
- Has won a share of a conference title twice
- Has played in a BCS bowl game
- Beat South Carolina in a bowl game
- Beat Notre Dame at Notre Dame
- Has a winning bowl record

These are facts associated with a D1 program that has been in existence for about 10 years. How many teams can say that? You can choose to downplay those facts, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. Adding UCONN would improve the overall football product in the B1G. It won't have the same impact as adding Texas or Oklahoma, but it's not going to bring it down either.

Not surprisingly, you now try to devalue national championships in high profile, highly competitive, revenue generating sports such as basketball. Quite frankly, if it was so easy, UCONN wouldn't be the only school with 3 national championships in MBB over the past 15 years and 8 National championships in WBB. Of course, your response was "UConn has also yet to show that they can win a tourney with a new HC so the jury is still out as well." What? UCONN won 20 games with the new HC, with the deck stacked against them and would have been a shoe-in for the tournament. The use of "Yet to show. . ." implies they somehow failed, which again, just isn't the case. Also, it's amusing how our coach has to win a NC in his first year but other "power houses" can go decades without a championship. I am sure when we win our fourth championship this year you will still have questions. But UCONN's used to it. It probably took a third national championship to wrest credit from certain fans.

The reality is that UCONN outperforms many schools in P5 conference in many different metrics. Most of these schools have leveled off, whereas UCONN will continue to get better.

Here is another reality—many schools, conferences and fans live off the laurels of past accomplishments, and one way to do it is to marginalize other schools' accomplishments, especially "new comers". I think push back is in order when the characterization doesn't correlate with the facts. Again, let me be clear, my desire is for UCONN to join the Big Ten because I think it's the best long term fit. However, it's less likely to happen if UCONN allows past successes, which they earned the hard way, get devalued and go uncontested.

I will give you credit for being fairly knowledgeable, but I think you have a "blind spot" when it comes to the trajectory of UCONN as a university and its potentiality. The conference that ultimately offers UCONN will benefit from a school that will excel nationally in academics, research, and athletics, and not just pursue national championships, but bring them home.

 

[woomba]

In terms of academics, Penn State may still have an edge, but Ohio State and Maryland are comparable to UCONN. What you tend to do is marginalize UCONN's accomplishments. In academics, you stated that UCONN would be "lower tier", which suggests they would be at the bottom of the conference, perhaps behind behind Rutgers, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana and by default, way behind Ohio State and Maryland. That is simply not the case. I'm not saying that UCONN is rivaling Northwestern for the top spot, but we're not bringing up the rear either.

What metrics are you using to defend that view? Just about every major metric suggests UConn wouldn't rank in the top 50% in the Big Ten. Endowment, Research, US News Rankings, Grad rankings, etc. etc.

I will grant that there are some speciality areas that UConn does very well in.

You've regularly pointed out that UCONN is lacking a "top tier" Football program. But, the fact is they have played as well as or better than many P5 teams over the past 10 years. Here are some facts.

- Only 9 teams in the nation had more NFL draft picks this year
- UCONN had more NFL draft picks than every team in the Big Ten this year
- UCONN has more players in the NFL than many P5 schools
- Its facilities are among the top ten in the nation
- Has won a share of a conference title twice
- Has played in a BCS bowl game
- Beat South Carolina in a bowl game
- Beat Notre Dame at Notre Dame
- Has a winning bowl record

These are facts associated with a D1 program that has been in existence for about 10 years. How many teams can say that? You can choose to downplay those facts, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. Adding UCONN would improve the overall football product in the B1G. It won't have the same impact as adding Texas or Oklahoma, but it's not going to bring it down either.

Again, in order to improve the overall football product in the Big Ten you'd need to be in the top 7 of the conference. I don't think that's the case even with these accomplishments.

I can nitpick every single one of those accomplishments but I do agree that it's impressive for a young program.

Not surprisingly, you now try to devalue national championships in high profile, highly competitive, revenue generating sports such as basketball. Quite frankly, if it was so easy, UCONN wouldn't be the only school with 3 national championships in MBB over the past 15 years and 8 National championships in WBB. Of course, your response was "UConn has also yet to show that they can win a tourney with a new HC so the jury is still out as well." What? UCONN won 20 games with the new HC, with the deck stacked against them and would have been a shoe-in for the tournament. The use of "Yet to show. . ." implies they somehow failed, which again, just isn't the case. Also, it's amusing how our coach has to win a NC in his first year but other "power houses" can go decades without a championship. I am sure when we win our fourth championship this year you will still have questions. But UCONN's used to it. It probably took a third national championship to wrest credit from certain fans.

The reality is that UCONN outperforms many schools in P5 conference in many different metrics. Most of these schools have leveled off, whereas UCONN will continue to get better.

I'm not devaluing anything - I'm just noting that Championships by itself isn't the basis of conference realignment. Texas A&M has a thoroughly unimpressive championship history but it was one of the most valuable schools to move based on its location, academics, and large, passionate fanbase.

I'm not anti-UConn per se and can see multiple scenarios where UConn will be slotted as a #16 or #18 if the right pieces come into place. The only thing that I'm against is the idea that UConn can keep the status quo and eventually schools will "realize" its value vs. UConn needing double down and make even larger investments into athletics & academics. So far it's been easy to see commitment in the academics side...athletics I'm not so sure about.

 

[SouthronCross]

Don't be so sure. Money changes everything. I never thought I would see a world where Texas and Texas A&M didn't battle. I didn't think I would see a world without West Virginia - Pitt, either. Or Missouri - Kansas. If there is one thing that conference realignment has taught me, it's that tradition doesn't matter. It's all about the Benjamins...

Oh, I agree. The money that the B1G is tossing out as possibilities is mind-boggling. Who knows who else might be coerced?

I just doubt that either UNC or UVA will be one of them.

Neither of those universities are in the dire financial straits that Maryland was/is. For years, the Terps have tried to run an athletic department similar to UNC-UVA, but, lack the fan support, alumni involvement, or, financial donations, that those two enjoy. Besides, both schools have had ample opportunity to jump to the B1G more than once before, and, neither have taken that opportunity. That includes last summer, when all of the talk about the ACC being ripped apart was all the rage.

Folks who live outside of NC-VA have no idea just how much the ACC means here. They also have no idea just how tight UNC-NCSU-Duke-Wake Forest-UVA-VPI are with each other. All except VPI have been in the ACC together for 60 years. And, they probably should've been included originally.

I am not saying it couldn't happen. I am just saying that I don't think that it will happen.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[SouthronCross]

If the ACC decides to expand again and we are not taken in by the B1G, I'd have to assume UConn is #1 on the list.

The 2011 expansion, from what I've gathered, was supposed to be Syracuse-UConn. Not Syracuse-Pitt. It was the ACC's FB-first schools-Miami, FSU, GT, CU, and VPI-that came out against you, as well as BC. Tobacco Road and UVA were solidly in your corner. I am not sure where Maryland stood.

You can be sure UNC and Duke will be looking for concessions from those same FB schools, should another vote for UConn come around.

I have absolutely nothing against Syracuse, Pitt, or Louisville joining. I espect all three, and, their hoops programs. I think all three push ACC basketball up a few levels. Bringing UConn in would help blow the roof off of it. November-March would be insane. I hold hope that Swofford and Co will come to their senses, and, realise how much bringing you all in would do for a future ACCN. We'd have a true east coast league that we could all be proud of.

 

[SouthronCross]

If you look at the entire NCAA and not just FB and BBall it's pretty competitive - pretty sure it's higher than both ACC and BE/AAC, especially if you don't just look at team championships but also include individual wins

Big Ten had probably more 2nd place finishes than wins for the past few decades in FB/BB though :|

They're competitive, for sure. But, they don't win those titles he claims they pursue. So, it all just talk. Nothing more.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

So far it's been easy to see commitment in the academics side...athletics I'm not so sure about.

I've heard this before about "commitment," and I need clarification. What specifically do you mean by this? Is it UConn's administration that needs more commitment? The fanbase? Do you mean financial commitment, or something else? What would convince you that UConn is committed enough?

Answer carefully - part of me thinks you're citing "commitment" because you lack something more concrete with which to argue, and a vague concept with lots of gray area like commitment suits what ultimately is position based on a weak understanding of UConn and what it really brings to the table.

You're not the only visiting poster I feel this way about after wading through two years of CR drivel on this board. We've had no end of posters come here to try to convince us of how we are lacking. I get tired of it - mostly because all these posters bring is uninformed, self-aggrandizing bullpucky.

 

[itgoeslike]

What metrics are you using to defend that view? Just about every major metric suggests UConn wouldn't rank in the top 50% in the Big Ten. Endowment, Research, US News Rankings, Grad rankings, etc. etc.

The first two are not a measure of academics. Let's stick to academics. Since you mentioned it, according to the US News & World Report rankings, UCONN is 1 "place" behind Maryland (#7), which is 1 place behind Ohio State (#6). UCONN only needs to gain modestly to be ranked ahead of 8 Big Ten schools. I suspect this happens in September. UCONN's graduation rates blow away virtually any big school. Their graduate schools continue to improve. Care to talk about admissions? I didn't think so. Additionally, UCONN has been hiring away and attracting top talent, which will contribute to their rise in the coming years. So, is UCONN really ranked at the bottom of B1G? No. Is UCONN comparable to Ohio State and Maryland? Yes. Are you once again augmenting reality? Yes.

Woomba said "Again, in order to improve the overall football product in the Big Ten you'd need to be in the top 7 of the conference. I don't think that's the case even with these accomplishments."

I really don't want to start nit picking other programs, that's your area of expertise. But, have you been following B1G Ten football lately? Even Michigan had a stretch where they averaged more than 6 losses per year, including a loss to Appalachian State. So, to get to number 7 UCONN would have to finish ahead of 7 of the following 8 schools: Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Rutgers, Northwestern and Maryland. As a member of the Big Ten, that scenario happens sooner than later.

Woomba said: "The only thing that I'm against is the idea that UConn can keep the status quo and eventually schools will "realize" its value vs. UConn needing double down and make even larger investments into athletics & academics. So far it's been easy to see commitment in the academics side...athletics I'm not so sure about."

I take it back, you are not very knowledgeable, at least when it comes to UCONN. Nothing about UCONN is status quo. Aside from the billions being invested in academics and research, UCONN has an athletic budget ranked higher than many P5 schools. Tack on a P5 conference media rights deal and we will be in the top 25 or 30. Connecticut, which is among the most affluent states in the country, is committed to making UCONN a top tier public university. Only a small number of schools are undertaking similar investments of this scale.

 

[woomba]

I've heard this before about "commitment," and I need clarification. What specifically do you mean by this? Is it UConn's administration that needs more commitment? The fanbase? Do you mean financial commitment, or something else? What would convince you that UConn is committed enough?

Answer carefully - part of me thinks you're citing "commitment" because you lack something more concrete with which to argue, and a vague concept with lots of gray area like commitment suits what ultimately is position based on a weak understanding of UConn and what it really brings to the table.

You're not the only visiting poster I feel this way about after wading through two years of CR drivel on this board. We've had no end of posters come here to try to convince us of how we are lacking. I get tired of it - mostly because all these posters bring is uninformed, self-aggrandizing bullpucky.

Limiting the discussion to Football:

1.I'm not convinced that UConn Admin + AD is really willing to invest what it takes to win and win consistently
2. ...while admittedly this is an outside view, the sense I get is that the UConn fanbase as a whole doesn't care enough to demand FB excellence and be willing to pay up (either in donations or big time boosters) in order to get that.

Some data points on why I feel this way.

1. Inability to keep Randy Edsall who pretty much bolted as soon as he got an offer from Maryland (in fact, I believe had signed the contract for Maryland before the BCS game)
2. Hiring a has-been HC as a replacement (Pasqualoni) + value hires for OC/DC
3.Relatively small FB stadium that doesn't seem to fill up consistently (the fact that its not on-campus is also a ding, but I realize that there were some logistical limitations to this)
4.Very little marketing push
5.I don't really sense that Pasqualoni is on the coaching hot seat - will he be fired after another 5-7 or 6-6 season? From where I sit I would venture a "No" but I can be wrong on this one...

Admittedly there are lower end FB schools in the P5 that are doing similar things to UConn but as a newish program looking from the outside I think UConn needs to be willing to throw lots of cash into this in order to guarantee a spot - if that is UConn's stance I don't think that has been effectively communicated outside of Storrs.

 

[woomba]

The first two are not a measure of academics. Let's stick to academics. Since you mentioned it, according to the US News & World Report rankings, UCONN is 1 "place" behind Maryland (#7), which is 1 place behind Ohio State (#6). UCONN only needs to gain modestly to be ranked ahead of 8 Big Ten schools. I suspect this happens in September. UCONN's graduation rates blow away virtually any big school. Their graduate schools continue to improve. Care to talk about admissions? I didn't think so. Additionally, UCONN has been hiring away and attracting top talent, which will contribute to their rise in the coming years. So, is UCONN really ranked at the bottom of B1G? No. Is UCONN comparable to Ohio State and Maryland? Yes. Are you once again augmenting reality? Yes.

I'm augmenting reality? When in another thread even other UConn fans admit Indiana would be in front of UConn in overall academics? You're the one cherry picking numbers here, not me.

I really don't want to start nit picking other programs, that's your area of expertise. But, have you been following B1G Ten football lately? Even Michigan had a stretch where they averaged more than 6 losses per year, including a loss to Appalachian State. So, to get to number 7 UCONN would have to finish ahead of 7 of the following 8 schools: Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Rutgers, Northwestern and Maryland. As a member of the Big Ten, that scenario happens sooner than later.

Funny how you mention Michigan when one of those losing years was the same team that beat UConn 30-10...the same year you won went to a BCS bowl. Just shows how much easier wins are to come by when you're in the Big East.