Delany trying to get B1G Tourney to MSG in 2018

[kyleslamb]

I think you underestimate the importance of the Big East Tournament and Madison Square Garden.

You're trying to park your double-wide on their Temple Mount.

There is nothing that the Big Ten can offer the Big East that would make it worth trading for the center of their universe. You can't offer them a football game and they truly don't need a basketball alliance with the Big Ten.

Well I certainly don't anticipate they are going to roll over just to say they're allies with the Big Ten. Like you said, it's holy territory to them.

I just wondered if an alliance, along with a stack of cash, wouldn't urge them to move their tournament back a few days in order to make it work for one or two years in a 10-year cycle. If the Big Ten comes off as stroking their ego unlike the ACC having tried to exert its superiority, they might get someplace.

I guess the point I'm making is that it seems the Big Ten isn't interested in becoming permanent fixtures at MSG, just merely wanted to stay as guests every once in a while. The ACC was coming off as marking MSG as its permanent territory, which would naturally make the BE a little defensive.

 

[NickyNewark]

The Big East has a contract for 2018. And for 2019. And 2020. And 2017. And so on.

The Big Ten wants one year.

That's not a winning arrangement for the Garden which is why even the Tribune speculates that the Big Ten will have to be flexible in its dates, (Hello Wednesday title game!), or make a deal with the Big East.

Now thats something I can't argue with! Is the Pru or Barclay Center a viable option?

 

[Fishy]

Well I certainly don't anticipate they are going to roll over just to say they're allies with the Big Ten. Like you said, it's holy territory to them.

I just wondered if an alliance, along with a stack of cash, wouldn't urge them to move their tournament back a few days in order to make it work for one or two years in a 10-year cycle. If the Big Ten comes off as stroking their ego unlike the ACC having tried to exert its superiority, they might get someplace.

I guess the point I'm making is that it seems the Big Ten isn't interested in becoming permanent fixtures at MSG, just merely wanted to stay as guests every once in a while. The ACC was coming off as marking MSG as its permanent territory, which would naturally make the BE a little defensive.

That's absolutely true.

The ACC painted themselves as invading conquerors and ended up in Brooklyn trading beads and trinkets with the A10.

 

[Kolumbo]

Delaney needs to bone up on his history. MSG is the birthplace of UCONN basketball. With an NIT victory over Ohio State no less.
I think St. John's is still NYC's basketball team regardless of its unfortunate membership in the new Big East. Rutgers would probably have a good showing in MSG...after all, they are now sitting at the table with the cool kids.

 

[SubbaBub]

Well, we just saw how well a major B1G program can draw to MSG. They can't fill it.

 

[Kolumbo]

according to the Chicago Tirbune: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...adison-square-garden-20140605,0,5509628.story

"Staging its tournament at “The World’s Most Famous Arena,” in the nation’s financial and media capital, would be a huge coup for the league – and a way to welcome in Rutgers, located less than 40 miles from midtown Manhattan."

Doesn't he realize that Rutgers doesn't even play basketball? Wait... they do?

I think this quote belongs to the author of the article, not Delaney. Sure, welcome Rutgers 4 years after its entrance into the conference, with a single Wednesday night "1-and-done" game. That was a pretty stupid quote.

 

[UConn9604]

Well, we just saw how well a major B1G program can draw to MSG. They can't fill it.

Here's the standard: name a team that we couldn't drown out of the gym at MSG. The only one that comes close is Syracuse (note: I'm including the Knicks), and that's a tie at best. Having watched and heard the 2003 BET semi-finals in person, in which our Sweet 16 team blew out the best team in their history at MSG, I like our chances.

The Big Ten just saw its signature basketball program, with its largest and best-traveling fan base, show up in MSG and get the Washington Generals treatment. The Big Ten is too smart to have missed what we mean to that city and that building.

As for making more money, the building can only be filled to a certain capacity and that's what we do. Just as the old Big East couldn't become the SEC in football by playing an occasional game in Atlanta, the Big Ten can't replicate what the old Big East had just by hosting its tournament there.

There's only one team left that can deliver that electricity, year in and year out. That's my alma mater.

 

[SubbaBub]

Here's the standard: name a team that we couldn't drown out of the gym at MSG. The only one that comes close is Syracuse (note: I'm including the Knicks), and that's a tie at best. Having watched and heard the 2003 BET semi-finals in person, in which our Sweet 16 team blew out the best team in their history at MSG, I like our chances.

The Big Ten just saw its signature basketball program, with its largest and best-traveling fan base, show up in MSG and get the Washington Generals treatment. The Big Ten is too smart to have missed what we mean to that city and that building.

As for making more money, the building can only be filled to a certain capacity and that's what we do. Just as the old Big East couldn't become the SEC in football by playing an occasional game in Atlanta, the Big Ten can't replicate what the old Big East had just by hosting its tournament there.

There's only one team left that can deliver that electricity, year in and year out. That's my alma mater.

I think the multiple teams that attend the conference tournament could sell the tickets. But the electricity, at the final and semifinals would be lacking. It's that buzz that made the BET what it was.

 

[upstater]

Delany is having direct discussions with MSG (not the NBE). This is all about money and the B1G tournament would generate more revenue for the garden. If it's just for one year, it's plausible that the NBE is pressured into swapping regions. Also, consider that half the New Big East conference resides West of Ohio State.

But again, all garden revenue goes to the renters. So the only thing that the B1G might offer MSG is higher rent for that week, but the rent would have to be exponentially higher than the BE's.

I am just making up the rent #s but say the BE pays $10m for the week. Over 4 years, that's $40m for MSG.

Now, let's say that one of those years goes to be B1G (and imagine the BE playing in Chicago, DC or Philly). How much would the B1G have to pay to displace the BE in order to make the whole thing worth it? I'd say $20m for one year. So the Garden clears $50m over 4.

The one thing that can be used AGAINST the BE is that this IS their Temple Mount, as Fishy said. They are not going to refuse to ever come back if they get kicked out once every four years.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Delaney needs to bone up on his history. MSG is the birthplace of UCONN basketball. With an NIT victory over Ohio State no less.
I think St. John's is still NYC's basketball team regardless of its unfortunate membership in the new Big East. Rutgers would probably have a good showing in MSG...after all, they are now sitting at the table with the cool kids.

Just remember, first and foremost, NYC likes winners. UConn is a winner and has a strong, loyal fan bases in the areas, which is why UConn carries so much weight at MSG. Syracuse, for better or worse, has also been a successful program (at least during the regular season) and matches UConn’s loyal, and strong loyal fan base. Thus, they have weight, too. Rutgers, St. John’s? They are local, Rutgers has numbers; but, one has not been successful in basketball since the 70’s and the other since the 90’s. No one outside of their alumni talk about them. Just look at pro sports in NYC right now. The Yanks (whom I am a big fan of) and the Mets get a clip here and there; but, the big sports news is the Rangers. Why? They are winning and are in the Stanley Cup. The Knicks, Nets, Devils, and Islanders are a distant memory because winners sell headlines.

 

[itgoeslike]

The Big East has a contract for 2018. And for 2019. And 2020. And 2017. And so on.

The Big Ten wants one year.

That's not a winning arrangement for the Garden which is why even the Tribune speculates that the Big Ten will have to be flexible in its dates, (Hello Wednesday title game!), or make a deal with the Big East.

I understand they have an extended contract. But, MSG also has an opt out clause if the NBE doesn't achieve certain metrics, and ticket sales were off 11% last year. If it looks like the NBE may not meet its performance requirements, it's conceivable that they rework their contract to allow the Big Ten in every four years while lowering the metrics for the NBE.

There's no doubt that the NBE wants and needs to maintain continuity at the Garden, but business is business. If the NBE can't meet their obligations thereby putting their contract at risk they may consider a deal if it meant they would still have a long-term presence at MSG. The Big Ten has the resources, mutual media partner and brand names to make it worth while for them.

 

[itgoeslike]

But again, all garden revenue goes to the renters. So the only thing that the B1G might offer MSG is higher rent for that week, but the rent would have to be exponentially higher than the BE's.

I am just making up the rent #s but say the BE pays $10m for the week. Over 4 years, that's $40m for MSG.

Now, let's say that one of those years goes to be B1G (and imagine the BE playing in Chicago, DC or Philly). How much would the B1G have to pay to displace the BE in order to make the whole thing worth it? I'd say $20m for one year. So the Garden clears $50m over 4.

The one thing that can be used AGAINST the BE is that this IS their Temple Mount, as Fishy said. They are not going to refuse to ever come back if they get kicked out once every four years.

Rent is money, but MSG may also get a percentage of ticket sales and media rights. I don't know. Even then, the Big Ten could dangle a more flexible an lucrative deal in front of the MSG. It could also include a Big Ten vs. Big East (etc) match ups or an early season tourney. Maybe it includes hockey. And as you mentioned above, the NBE would settle for less presence than no presence at the MSG if they could work out the right deal.

Secondly, MSG is a brand unto itself. They have a stake in this too. I'm sure they don't look forward to a Duke, UNC, Syracuse and Notre Dame semifinal going on in Brooklyn while they have Depaul and Creighton among the headliners at their semis. . .

 

[businesslawyer]

Here's the rub....why would Madison Square Garden boot the Big East for the Big Ten?

The Big East is in there year in and year out - why should MSG harm their partners by letting the Big Ten play make believe for a year before scampering back to Chicago and Indy for another decade?

It makes no sense.

It's fine that the Big Ten brags about being in two regions, but in basketball terms, they're still in one - every single program in the Big East is better than Rutgers and Penn State. Maryland's better than those two sacks of sadness, but they're not getting any play in New York unless they're playing UConn, Syracuse or the Knicks.

Unless the Big Ten writes them a massive check, MSG will likely tell them to go pound sand.

MSG is not going to kick out the Big East for one year to bring in the ACC or Big Ten. It only happens short term if the Big Ten makes the Big East an offer it can't refuse, economically or otherwise (as the ACC did to the A Ten to get into Barclays for one year).

That having been said, it would not kill the Big East to play the tourney one year in Cincy or Chicago for the sake of its midwestern membership.

 

[Sea Goat]

This is all positive (and I like the timing). Delany was at MSG for UConn's run through the east region. He saw how UConn can dominate in the Garden. He wants NYC to work for the B1G. He sees that UConn is part of the puzzle. Let's be real, nobody is going to the Garden to see Rutgers. But UConn works and he knows it.

 

[UConn9604]

This is all positive (and I like the timing). Delany was at MSG for UConn's run through the east region. He saw how UConn can dominate in the Garden. He wants NYC to work for the B1G. He sees that UConn is part of the puzzle. Let's be real, nobody is going to the Garden to see Rutgers. But UConn works and he knows it.

He's too smart not to know it or have learned it first-hand this March.

The Big Ten moves slowly and deliberately, the ACC moves secretly and with the quick-strike capability of a cobra (or Ray Allen from three). I have to believe that gears are turning.

 

[Pudge]

For a conference tournament, New York is an easy sell - any major conference would sell every ticket.

Whatever the reasons to add UConn might be, selling out MSG in 2018 is not among them.

Ahhh ... But I don't think the REAL prize is selling individual tickets.

It is making a splash in the Media Capital/World Capital that is New York. You still are far better off with the New Haven line adding 5 trains for Blue clad people than a wimpy little grouping of Red. And you are inherently building your brand when NYC recognizes the build-up with what the Big East tournament became. And that was ... humbly ... a lot of UConn. I would suggest that Delany knows this and has to withhold a giggle when he articulates the word ... Rutgers.

 

[Afroabe224]

The point of Delany's comment is to try to book MSG to "welcome Rutgers". Good. All 466 of them can show up to be welcomed with yet another first day exit.

I am so happy someone linked that article

466 fans BUT 7.3M cable boxes

 

[kyleslamb]

Well, we just saw how well a major B1G program can draw to MSG. They can't fill it.

I don't think that's an apt comparison. The Big Ten Tournament isn't one team going to a location for a single game... it's the entire conference over a 4-5 day period. There's little doubt in my mind that the Big Ten would sell out MSG if it held the tournament there.

 

[CL82]

A few thoughts:
1) Wasn't their an announcement that B1G and the Big East had an an agreement to have the B1G have the championships tournament in NYC?
2) What were the attendance figures for last year's BET? I got the sense that really didn't set the world on fire.
3) Periodically having the B1G tourney in NYC is good for the B1g as it stays a fresh exciting trip. It's good for the BE since fans may value it more if they miss it periodically.
4) I think the B1G offered a scheduling alliance in exchange for the BE's cooperation. I don't have a source for this other than a vague recollection of a prior thread.
5) Delaney saw UConn's fan support at MSG at the Mich St. game.
6) March 2018 less UConn's 27 month waiting period is December 2015.
7) Assuming that Delaney believes that the UConn adds sufficient value to their next TV contract, he'd have to invite by Aug. 2014.

Food for thought.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Providence v. Creighton championship game on Saturday night 3/15/2014 has an attendance reported in the espn.com box score of: 15,290.

My guess, is that is paid, and not actual gate. Maybe it is gate - either way it's not max capacity of Madison Square Garden, it's approx. 75% capacity. That's not a great number. My next guess is that you'd find similar and lower attendance numbers in the box scores of the prior tournament games to the championship.

The next question - is how much those tickets that were actually sold, were being sold for. My guess there, is that they were significantly less than they've been in the past.

so I'm thinking that it's probably a good estimate that the catholic league showed a 25% decrease in tickets sold - at an unknown percentage decrease of cost per ticket.

 

[woomba]

Can't MSG just double host with staggered times?

Being able to get tickets for both the Big East and Big Ten championships as a set could be interesting and would make for a "unique" experience, although I'm not sure how the logistics would play out.

 

[UConn Dan]

A few thoughts: 1) Wasn't their an announcement that B1G and the Big East had an an agreement to have the B1G have the championships tournament in NYC? 2) What were the attendance figures for last years BET. I got the sense that really didn't set the world on fire. 3) Periodically have the B1G tourney in NYC is good for the B1g as it stays a fresh exciting trip. It's good for the BE since fans may value it more if they miss it periodically. 4) I think the B1G offered a scheduling alliance in exchange for the BE's cooperation. I don't have a source for this other than a vague recollection of a prior thread. 5) Delaney saw UConn's fan support at MSG at the Mich St. game. 6) March 2018 less UConn's 27 month waiting period is December 2015. 7) Assuming that Delaney believes that the UConn adds sufficient value to their next TV contract, he'd have to invite by Aug. 2014. Food for thought.

i like your thinking but we can take an invite as late as 4/1/15 and still play in the B1G 2017-18 season while serving our 27 months (doubt we'd serve it all though via buyout precedent). Still plenty if time, plus wouldn't take away from Rutgers and Maryland adds.

 

[upstater]

Can't MSG just double host with staggered times?

Being able to get tickets for both the Big East and Big Ten championships as a set could be interesting and would make for a "unique" experience, although I'm not sure how the logistics would play out.

If one of the conferences were willing to play at 6 am and 9 am, then sure, it could.

 

[CL82]

i like your thinking but we can take an invite as late as 4/1/15 and still play in the B1G 2017-18 season while serving our 27 months (doubt we'd serve it all though via buyout precedent). Still plenty if time, plus wouldn't take away from Rutgers and Maryland adds.

Mmn not so sure. Are you presuming that we'd play our OOC schedule as a member of one league and conf. schedule as a member of another (or am I just messing up the math?) I don't see that happening. Regardless, we agree that UConn, in theory, could be in the B1G in time for this tournament.

 

[kyleslamb]

If one of the conferences were willing to play at 6 am and 9 am, then sure, it could.

They could orchestrate sessions to where the semifinals and championships were all played on the same day. But any of the previous rounds would have to be played separately.

Perhaps the Big East could play its opening rounds on Monday & Tuesday, the Big Ten on Wednesday, Thursday & Friday and then the two leagues would have semifinals on Saturday with championship games as a doubleheader on Sunday.