Talk, I'm sure they will talk...Go, well that's not as likely.
Delany: Space to grow in NY market
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Talk, I'm sure they will talk...Go, well that's not as likely.
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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The thing is this; if I understand it correctly, the PAC12 is only making half a million more per year per team than the Big12, and I'm not sure how much more Texas gets from the Longhorn Network and such. If we operate under the assumption that only Texas or Oklahoma moving would disrupt the conference, then I don't see any way in the near term for that to happen. There's no driving force to do so...unless there is something about the money (i.e., Tier3 rights) that I haven't calculated into the analysis...
There are plenty of reasons they could want to leave. Again, I'm not saying the B12 is as unstable as the ACC, but it hangs on one school, which makes it unstable, IMO.
UConnDan97
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SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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The first time a GOR survives a challenge from a school wanting to leave I'll buy it as a good defense against raiding. Until then it's just a big beware of dog sign.
But, it beats what the ACC has right now.
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UConnDan97
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Like I said, I'm not even factoring in the GOR. I'm not well versed enough in legal matters to comment on it. What I'm saying is that right now, it looks like Texas has even money from the Big12 versus the PAC, and it has its own network as well. If the money is equal (or possibly better) in the Big12, what on earth would be the driving force for them to move?!? I can't come up with any reason whatsoever...
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No. UConn will bring Big Ten teams within an hour of Vermont, 1.5 hours of Boston and Providence, 2 hours of Manchester NH, 3 hours of Portland ME. Big Ten alumni and fans all over NE will be able to come to games and see games on local cable and will develop a stronger allegiance to the league.
BC brings only their alumni. UConn brings both a bigger alumni base, but also a host of fans who grew up in Connecticut but never went to UConn. UConn has more fans in Boston than BC does.
UConn's entry to Hockey East means that hockey fans throughout northern New England will be seeing a UConn team locally. That generates interest for the school and in its football and basketball programs, which will be the elite programs of New England. Marketing people will know how to pitch UConn as New England's college team, the way Syracuse pitches itself as NYC's college team -- but more effectively.
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One thing that nelson brings up is the encroachment of the Big 10 into SEC territory. I doubt that Delany cares one whit about encroaching into ACC territory. Heck he ballsily just cut the ACC in half with MD and Rutgers. There's no question that the triumvirate of conferences is the SEC, Pac 12, and the Big 10. The Pac 12 is isolated geographically. The SEC is anchored by a southern culture for big time football. The Big 10 has that the 3 yards and a cloud of dust culture anchored by schools with undergrad populations of 30k, 40k that are viewed by all as the gorilla(s) of the state.
But I do think that Delany would not encroach into SEC territory. And at some point, exactly where SEC territory ends has to be answered. Right now it isn't in North Carolina or Virginia. But once, eg., Delany says I want in on NC, that pokes the proverbial bear. And if you're Delany why do that? Is the NC market so critical to the Big 10's success that it is worth a fight if, eg, NC State ends up in the SEC. Same thing with Virginia. With respect to Georgia Tech, this is magnified. Georgia Tech against Georgia and the might of the SEC. Atlanta where the SEC just saw a huge ratings and spectator success. Atlanta is SEC territory. It would be like Slive coming into Chicago and raising up DePaul into a football pwerhouse. I don't think that this can be underestimated.
Now contrast that with Delany going for the northeast jugular by taking UConn and (the 16th is a problem due to lack of candidates, but I guess Syracuse, pitt, bc). Exactly whom will he offend? Swofford by isolating eg, BC if BC is left alone? Delany wouldn't (nor from a business standpoint should he) care about that.
We have always been told that the Big 10 is a conservative conference. That with its power and prestige that it doesn't need to act recklessly. The safe, prudent and best business decision is to get southern new england, tie up NYC, isolate any northeast competition, and call it a day and let the next 25-30 years play out as we increasingly transition into digital distribution. If there will be a bit of daring to it, then add UVA and use northern virginia and southern virginia as the 38th parallel.
But I do think that Delany would not encroach into SEC territory. And at some point, exactly where SEC territory ends has to be answered. Right now it isn't in North Carolina or Virginia. But once, eg., Delany says I want in on NC, that pokes the proverbial bear. And if you're Delany why do that? Is the NC market so critical to the Big 10's success that it is worth a fight if, eg, NC State ends up in the SEC. Same thing with Virginia. With respect to Georgia Tech, this is magnified. Georgia Tech against Georgia and the might of the SEC. Atlanta where the SEC just saw a huge ratings and spectator success. Atlanta is SEC territory. It would be like Slive coming into Chicago and raising up DePaul into a football pwerhouse. I don't think that this can be underestimated.
Now contrast that with Delany going for the northeast jugular by taking UConn and (the 16th is a problem due to lack of candidates, but I guess Syracuse, pitt, bc). Exactly whom will he offend? Swofford by isolating eg, BC if BC is left alone? Delany wouldn't (nor from a business standpoint should he) care about that.
We have always been told that the Big 10 is a conservative conference. That with its power and prestige that it doesn't need to act recklessly. The safe, prudent and best business decision is to get southern new england, tie up NYC, isolate any northeast competition, and call it a day and let the next 25-30 years play out as we increasingly transition into digital distribution. If there will be a bit of daring to it, then add UVA and use northern virginia and southern virginia as the 38th parallel.
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The B12 is a clear #4 in terms of stability. It is held together by Texas and Oklahoma. The GoR helps them, but all contracts have termination provisions and eventually expire.
I think the likely thing is that the B12 grows and becomes a more stable superconference. They add the southern half of the ACC (FSU, Miami, Clemson, Ga Tech, ??? from NC and Va leftover after B1G and SEC are done) and have an east and west division.
I think the likely thing is that the B12 grows and becomes a more stable superconference. They add the southern half of the ACC (FSU, Miami, Clemson, Ga Tech, ??? from NC and Va leftover after B1G and SEC are done) and have an east and west division.
Petulance? Exposure? Future dollars? Wanting to be in a league with ND (if ND joins B1G - not likely)? Secession (JK, checking if you are paying attention). Striking first (not liking the league's possible future as a combination of ACC/B12, or simply liking the PAC better)?
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I agree with your points except that I don't know what disintermediation means and distinguish between cable and cellular telephone because the latter doesn't require a physical connection. My point, in part, was around what the customer wants, i.e., not paying for stuff they don't want. More broadly, delivery is in a state of flux, and where it stabalizes around is anyone's guess. Basing valuation on that much uncertainty is extremely difficult and therefore risky.
UConnDan97
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Wow. I'll have to address these one by one:
Petulance - Texas is not any more petulant than they have ever been at any point in their history. They are equally petulant, in my opinion.
Exposure - Did you just say that Texas is worried about exposure? TEXAS??? That's where the Longhorn Network thing comes in, and that's what I'm talking about.
Wanting to be in a league with ND - Everyone does, and nobody knows when or where that would be. Most people agree it wouldn't be the PAC...
Secession - Possible. But that would insure that they stay away from the B1G or PAC. More stable, not less.
Striking First - They did. Welcome, TCU and WVU!
I hope I got them all...
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Dann
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this is the whole chess vs checkers vs tic tac toe.
the b10, sec and pac have been playing chess the past 10 years quietly. slowly defining the region or borders which they want to lay claim to. it took a while for ppl to notice. they flirted with tons of schools but pick certain battle and pick certain schools.
meanwhile the b12 was playing checkers, they took some things for granted and they made some interesting decisions. at the same time the acc was playing tic tac toe.
the pac grabbed utah. who the hell was going to steal them away? no one, but utah was on the rise in sports and it fits well in the pac geography, it bridged them to colorado being a nice fit also. the state of nevada will be next when they add again. u can book that. the pac has only 1 competitor and thats what ever becomes of the mwc. its extemely weak but has potential to have , byu, sdsu, unr and bsu all together if ducks get in a row. thats like the mac vs the b10 out west with a bit better sports. the pac is for ever in good shape and they will add a couple of those schools in time to get to 16. it will be the pac and then mwc with a b10 vs mac type feel. the question is how defined are the pac's borders? the answer is very defined. they reached to colorado and they will get nevada as a filler. the only question is if they see the state of new mexico or no as worth investment. if so then they will border texas. if not so be it but no one is touching that territory.
the sec took the borders to another level. they flexed major muscle going to the heart of b12 country and getting atm. they also went to the border of b10 country by getting mizzu. mizzu was a good add for the sec tv and sports wise. but u have to wonder why mizzu wasn't b10 worthy and the reason was there market was already covered by the b10 enough where it didn't make sense to add the, to the b10. they fit 100% otherwise. so then u have to have the b10 vision, they were willing to let the sec come right up to there border with mizzu, why? becuase the b10 knew they were going to extend its border south at some point and east to rival that to the sec. they truck with ruty and md. ruty was there extension east syaing were going to own the coast line and in up north. md was there way of bridging uva and possibly unc to the south and pusihing close to sec borders.
whats coming next is the b10 and sec defining its borders exactly. its a stale mate now both needing 2 teams. neither wants to have teams in the same states which means direct competition both on the field and tv cable box wise. so both need to make strategic moves that fit best with there goals. the end will be both meeting somewhere and defining borders and leaving the leftovers for the b12 to be the mismatch conf that extends in all 3 territorys and never has a geographic fit.
the acc while all of this was going on had a chance to lay stake in the game, if they did make a splash then the b12 never signs a gor and the b12 blows up. instead the acc played tic tac toe and destroyed itself. schools like cuse and pitt wern't the right adds and everyone knows it. from a value standpoint, on the field, identity and so on. they simple just wern't the righ adds. if the acc added wvu, ruty, uconn and lets say cuse. then thats a game changer. u bring the best fball and bball schools form the be(wvu and uconn) and u now have a east caost foorptint that arguably is valueable and can stick together. the b10, sec and pac would have then ate up the b12. but becuase the acc vision was dumb, they failed horribly.
the sec and b10 are in a network battler. one has it and ones going to have it come janurary. its a game changer. it not just about biggest market, its about big fanbases and cable boxes. big fanbases are big publics and rare schools like nd. the acc has those but not the setup or stability now. huge fail on the acc's part. we now have to wait for the sec and b10 to define its borders.
the smart move for both is this. we all know the va and nc schools are valueable. but if u cross them, then it hurts each other(sec/b10) becuas eof the competition in networks. both leagues are well aware of that.
the sec can add unc and duke. that fits what i have just talked about. it kills off wake, and it forces ncst to be one of the leftovers in the b12. it also defines the sec/b10 border as north cary being a sec state. it then allows the b10 to define va as a b10 state with uva. for the b10 the question is #16. does nd bite? if not the logical way to go is northeast to lock up that foorptint. the b10 needs to have more fanbase/tv wise then the north east leftovers. right now they have psu/ruty and md. but uconn, cuse, pitt and bc are for the taking and will not be b12 schools. thats a 4 vs 3 and just enough where while the b10 may be bigger and better, those schools together can stay relevant in a best up acc together. so the b10 needs to strike. they need the team that will fit them best tvs, markets, cable boxes wise. uconn i feel is in a good position compared to pitt, bc and cuse but we shall see in time. pitt is like mizzu, it doesn't make sense tv wise which is the #1 motive so they are one of the left behinds. cuse, bc and uconn then battle for the spot. uconn has the big fanbase, doubles down grabbing nyc and brings good markets and other quality pieces to the b10 puzzle. cuse and bc do also but to lesser degrees. the b10 and sec can in these next moves kill off a couple dying private schools in the landscape, thats a huge extra bonus point for owning a footprint.
the b12 doesn't have a network so the b10 and b12 aren't afraid to have that conf in its backyards. they know they are a clear 4th tv wise but competitive on the field. thats fine in the b10/sec eyes.
sec+duke and unc
b10+uva and uconn
b12+miami, fsu, gt, clem, ncst and vt
the b12 gets its eastern division with wvu added to that group and one of a texas school(tcu) or ist going to that division. the b12 lives and is the 4th of the 4x16 super confs. this all will be done before the sec gets its network off the ground and the b10 has its contract redo in 2017.
the pac will react just to make sure perception wise its accepted as a legit 1 of the 4. they will add unr and bsu. byu and sdsu would be the other 2 i think with nm, haw being in the running.
now look at these 4 leagues on a map. 3 of them make all the sense in the world and the 4th while stretched out also makes sense. were some rivalaries and realtionships ruined? sure and that stinks, but the end goal isn't the dooma nd gloom ppl are bitching about.
once this 4x16 is acomplished which i think will be no later than 2017, then the next step is how far u can stretch the leagues #'s wise to give yourself max value and inventory for your network and also for tiers programing. it makes perfect sense for the b10 to go bigger to 18 with nd and 1 other northeast school. for the pac and sec i'm not sure it makes sense to go bigger. the b12 will stay as is for ever if it can and any adds mean it lost schools first.
its all very possible that this happens-the new playoff evolves quickly to a 8 team playoff. and the 4 big boys get auto bids leaving 4 open bids every year. if this is so then nd will never join the b10. this is why the b10 can't wait on nd, it can only force a decision and then move on. in this the 4 big boys have conf ship games for bids to the playoff and the 4 open sports are by rankings/committie slections or w/e u pick them wise. in this case what the b10 and sec and b12 did was fuck the acc so bad that nd struggles in its other sports. the reason nd moved to the acc was it reached a point where other sports in the nbe didn't work for them. bball games vs uconn and soccer games vs lville wern't enough in the grand scheme to stay so they move to the acc where other sports could live well. now that the acc is bc/cuse/wake and crew, once again nd's other sports are in a conf that isn't worthy in there eyes. the b10 then can add the other sports and let nd be indy still, but the b10 will get a much better deal then the acc got and it will be worth while for both parties.
there is your 4x16 with all that needs to be talked about.
the mac is at 13 teams. they need to get ot 16 and they will with small potentials that expand footprint. it will be important for the mac to go east and south so that they can open up new foortprint and recruiting areas to stay relevaent under the b10 shadow. schools like unh, maine, sbrook and odu will be talked about for example.
the new big east will be a football league, a east/southern cusa on roids basically. any program worthy of that fits. tulane, ecu are only the beinging. uab, smiss, marsh come to mind. this league will get to 16 as well and rival or be above the mac on the playing field. the question is, can the new big east go for the kill and take back a few schools or does the acc try to live. the acc has a crappy contract + the raycom bs. the nbe will have a new fresh contract with options. who is to say the left outs like cuse, pitt, bc, wake and lville dont rejoin the big east and get the best contract possible. this would potentially be the only reason the bball schools would be interested in hanging around instead of making there own big bball only league.
cuse/pitt/bc/wake/lville
+temple/cincy/usf/ucf/memphis/uh/smu
+ecu/tulane
thats 14
lets include navy, thats 15 and a fball only
+ 1 of amry/marsh/smiss/uab and u are at a 16 team fball league.
then look at the makeup. you have 13 all sport teams of that 16(navy, army and ecu fball only). that doesn't work. it needs to be 14 fball schools. u can either make ecu all sports or not add army and go a different route. lets say ecu for all sports. thats 14 all sports teams and army/navyy for fball. then u can add the 7 bball schools who stay becuase of lville/cuse/pitt being back. thats 21 schools hat play bball or 20 round robin bball league games every year rotating h/w by year. thats max inventory for the league, it keeps a bball identity somehat but also keep the fball schools relevant enough as a battle for the 5th best league. this league has a conf ship just like the others in fball and has a good shot at one of the 4 open slots in the playoff if a team like lville is ranked high enough. there your possible seat in the playoff, a best tv possible and staying somehwhat relevant. no one is left out so the big boys are never viewed as killing schools and no court issues with antitrust blah blah. a side note in this is it allows the nnnnbe to have a north and south or east and west division set up in fball that keeps most of the potentials and big boys in different divisions so schools can be happy with who they play schedule wise but this is just a tlaking point for chat later in the game. the acc dies becuase it was playing tic tac toe and the new big east lives becuase they got a new leader and started playing chess, it was to ate to start playing chess for a big boy seat, but in time to be a relevant piece.
the b10, sec and pac have been playing chess the past 10 years quietly. slowly defining the region or borders which they want to lay claim to. it took a while for ppl to notice. they flirted with tons of schools but pick certain battle and pick certain schools.
meanwhile the b12 was playing checkers, they took some things for granted and they made some interesting decisions. at the same time the acc was playing tic tac toe.
the pac grabbed utah. who the hell was going to steal them away? no one, but utah was on the rise in sports and it fits well in the pac geography, it bridged them to colorado being a nice fit also. the state of nevada will be next when they add again. u can book that. the pac has only 1 competitor and thats what ever becomes of the mwc. its extemely weak but has potential to have , byu, sdsu, unr and bsu all together if ducks get in a row. thats like the mac vs the b10 out west with a bit better sports. the pac is for ever in good shape and they will add a couple of those schools in time to get to 16. it will be the pac and then mwc with a b10 vs mac type feel. the question is how defined are the pac's borders? the answer is very defined. they reached to colorado and they will get nevada as a filler. the only question is if they see the state of new mexico or no as worth investment. if so then they will border texas. if not so be it but no one is touching that territory.
the sec took the borders to another level. they flexed major muscle going to the heart of b12 country and getting atm. they also went to the border of b10 country by getting mizzu. mizzu was a good add for the sec tv and sports wise. but u have to wonder why mizzu wasn't b10 worthy and the reason was there market was already covered by the b10 enough where it didn't make sense to add the, to the b10. they fit 100% otherwise. so then u have to have the b10 vision, they were willing to let the sec come right up to there border with mizzu, why? becuase the b10 knew they were going to extend its border south at some point and east to rival that to the sec. they truck with ruty and md. ruty was there extension east syaing were going to own the coast line and in up north. md was there way of bridging uva and possibly unc to the south and pusihing close to sec borders.
whats coming next is the b10 and sec defining its borders exactly. its a stale mate now both needing 2 teams. neither wants to have teams in the same states which means direct competition both on the field and tv cable box wise. so both need to make strategic moves that fit best with there goals. the end will be both meeting somewhere and defining borders and leaving the leftovers for the b12 to be the mismatch conf that extends in all 3 territorys and never has a geographic fit.
the acc while all of this was going on had a chance to lay stake in the game, if they did make a splash then the b12 never signs a gor and the b12 blows up. instead the acc played tic tac toe and destroyed itself. schools like cuse and pitt wern't the right adds and everyone knows it. from a value standpoint, on the field, identity and so on. they simple just wern't the righ adds. if the acc added wvu, ruty, uconn and lets say cuse. then thats a game changer. u bring the best fball and bball schools form the be(wvu and uconn) and u now have a east caost foorptint that arguably is valueable and can stick together. the b10, sec and pac would have then ate up the b12. but becuase the acc vision was dumb, they failed horribly.
the sec and b10 are in a network battler. one has it and ones going to have it come janurary. its a game changer. it not just about biggest market, its about big fanbases and cable boxes. big fanbases are big publics and rare schools like nd. the acc has those but not the setup or stability now. huge fail on the acc's part. we now have to wait for the sec and b10 to define its borders.
the smart move for both is this. we all know the va and nc schools are valueable. but if u cross them, then it hurts each other(sec/b10) becuas eof the competition in networks. both leagues are well aware of that.
the sec can add unc and duke. that fits what i have just talked about. it kills off wake, and it forces ncst to be one of the leftovers in the b12. it also defines the sec/b10 border as north cary being a sec state. it then allows the b10 to define va as a b10 state with uva. for the b10 the question is #16. does nd bite? if not the logical way to go is northeast to lock up that foorptint. the b10 needs to have more fanbase/tv wise then the north east leftovers. right now they have psu/ruty and md. but uconn, cuse, pitt and bc are for the taking and will not be b12 schools. thats a 4 vs 3 and just enough where while the b10 may be bigger and better, those schools together can stay relevant in a best up acc together. so the b10 needs to strike. they need the team that will fit them best tvs, markets, cable boxes wise. uconn i feel is in a good position compared to pitt, bc and cuse but we shall see in time. pitt is like mizzu, it doesn't make sense tv wise which is the #1 motive so they are one of the left behinds. cuse, bc and uconn then battle for the spot. uconn has the big fanbase, doubles down grabbing nyc and brings good markets and other quality pieces to the b10 puzzle. cuse and bc do also but to lesser degrees. the b10 and sec can in these next moves kill off a couple dying private schools in the landscape, thats a huge extra bonus point for owning a footprint.
the b12 doesn't have a network so the b10 and b12 aren't afraid to have that conf in its backyards. they know they are a clear 4th tv wise but competitive on the field. thats fine in the b10/sec eyes.
sec+duke and unc
b10+uva and uconn
b12+miami, fsu, gt, clem, ncst and vt
the b12 gets its eastern division with wvu added to that group and one of a texas school(tcu) or ist going to that division. the b12 lives and is the 4th of the 4x16 super confs. this all will be done before the sec gets its network off the ground and the b10 has its contract redo in 2017.
the pac will react just to make sure perception wise its accepted as a legit 1 of the 4. they will add unr and bsu. byu and sdsu would be the other 2 i think with nm, haw being in the running.
now look at these 4 leagues on a map. 3 of them make all the sense in the world and the 4th while stretched out also makes sense. were some rivalaries and realtionships ruined? sure and that stinks, but the end goal isn't the dooma nd gloom ppl are bitching about.
once this 4x16 is acomplished which i think will be no later than 2017, then the next step is how far u can stretch the leagues #'s wise to give yourself max value and inventory for your network and also for tiers programing. it makes perfect sense for the b10 to go bigger to 18 with nd and 1 other northeast school. for the pac and sec i'm not sure it makes sense to go bigger. the b12 will stay as is for ever if it can and any adds mean it lost schools first.
its all very possible that this happens-the new playoff evolves quickly to a 8 team playoff. and the 4 big boys get auto bids leaving 4 open bids every year. if this is so then nd will never join the b10. this is why the b10 can't wait on nd, it can only force a decision and then move on. in this the 4 big boys have conf ship games for bids to the playoff and the 4 open sports are by rankings/committie slections or w/e u pick them wise. in this case what the b10 and sec and b12 did was fuck the acc so bad that nd struggles in its other sports. the reason nd moved to the acc was it reached a point where other sports in the nbe didn't work for them. bball games vs uconn and soccer games vs lville wern't enough in the grand scheme to stay so they move to the acc where other sports could live well. now that the acc is bc/cuse/wake and crew, once again nd's other sports are in a conf that isn't worthy in there eyes. the b10 then can add the other sports and let nd be indy still, but the b10 will get a much better deal then the acc got and it will be worth while for both parties.
there is your 4x16 with all that needs to be talked about.
the mac is at 13 teams. they need to get ot 16 and they will with small potentials that expand footprint. it will be important for the mac to go east and south so that they can open up new foortprint and recruiting areas to stay relevaent under the b10 shadow. schools like unh, maine, sbrook and odu will be talked about for example.
the new big east will be a football league, a east/southern cusa on roids basically. any program worthy of that fits. tulane, ecu are only the beinging. uab, smiss, marsh come to mind. this league will get to 16 as well and rival or be above the mac on the playing field. the question is, can the new big east go for the kill and take back a few schools or does the acc try to live. the acc has a crappy contract + the raycom bs. the nbe will have a new fresh contract with options. who is to say the left outs like cuse, pitt, bc, wake and lville dont rejoin the big east and get the best contract possible. this would potentially be the only reason the bball schools would be interested in hanging around instead of making there own big bball only league.
cuse/pitt/bc/wake/lville
+temple/cincy/usf/ucf/memphis/uh/smu
+ecu/tulane
thats 14
lets include navy, thats 15 and a fball only
+ 1 of amry/marsh/smiss/uab and u are at a 16 team fball league.
then look at the makeup. you have 13 all sport teams of that 16(navy, army and ecu fball only). that doesn't work. it needs to be 14 fball schools. u can either make ecu all sports or not add army and go a different route. lets say ecu for all sports. thats 14 all sports teams and army/navyy for fball. then u can add the 7 bball schools who stay becuase of lville/cuse/pitt being back. thats 21 schools hat play bball or 20 round robin bball league games every year rotating h/w by year. thats max inventory for the league, it keeps a bball identity somehat but also keep the fball schools relevant enough as a battle for the 5th best league. this league has a conf ship just like the others in fball and has a good shot at one of the 4 open slots in the playoff if a team like lville is ranked high enough. there your possible seat in the playoff, a best tv possible and staying somehwhat relevant. no one is left out so the big boys are never viewed as killing schools and no court issues with antitrust blah blah. a side note in this is it allows the nnnnbe to have a north and south or east and west division set up in fball that keeps most of the potentials and big boys in different divisions so schools can be happy with who they play schedule wise but this is just a tlaking point for chat later in the game. the acc dies becuase it was playing tic tac toe and the new big east lives becuase they got a new leader and started playing chess, it was to ate to start playing chess for a big boy seat, but in time to be a relevant piece.
Wow. I'll have to address these one by one:
Petulance - Texas is not any more petulant than they have ever been at any point in their history. They are equally petulant, in my opinion.
Exposure - Did you just say that Texas is worried about exposure? TEXAS??? That's where the Longhorn Network thing comes in, and that's what I'm talking about.
Wanting to be in a league with ND - Everyone does, and nobody knows when or where that would be. Most people agree it wouldn't be the PAC...
Secession - Possible. But that would insure that they stay away from the B1G or PAC. More stable, not less.
Striking First - They did. Welcome, TCU and WVU!
I hope I got them all...
LOL, Texas is just as petulant as ever, they can't become moreso, I agree
Exposure, one can always get more and the PAC would carry more TV's than the current B12, especially if OK, OKST and TT also come for the ride. Just an example.
ND, honestly they wouldn't shock me if they did go to the PAC just to mess with everyone else.
TCU and WVU is striking first? I thought that was reacting to other B12 members leaving. Either way, not really what I'm talking about, the question is, does being in a 16 team conference with the current B12 and 6 members of the ACC (say VT, Clemson, FSU, Miami, UL and ??) sound better or worse than being in the PAC with Oklahoma, OKST, TT in terms of long-term projections? I'm not talking about next 3-5 years, but 10-15 years down the line?
I am just making all of this up, so don't take it as some gospel truth, but you asked for an example of a reason Texas may talk to the PAC, not go, but talk. I think any and all of the above are possible reasons to at least talk.
Well it would be doom and gloom if Cuse or BC were the choice over UConn. I can see the arguments for Cuse and UConn
Cuse has a bigger stadium for football and basketball.
UConn is a public school with a shot at being AAU in the future.
The question is, who has a bigger reach overall? Does Cuse bring enough sets in upstate to counter UConn's sets in CT/advantage in NYC/Western Mass/potentially Boston? Cuse really doesn't reach outside the state of New York, but is that enough?
I can't see BC as bringing as much as either Cuse or UConn.
Also, if B1G grabs UNC (somehow) and UVA instead of going north, does the SEC even try to get NCST or do they just give up on the state of North Carolina?
UConnDan97
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LOL, Texas is just as petulant as ever, they can't become moreso, I agree
Exposure, one can always get more and the PAC would carry more TV's than the current B12, especially if OK, OKST and TT also come for the ride. Just an example.
ND, honestly they wouldn't shock me if they did go to the PAC just to mess with everyone else.
TCU and WVU is striking first? I thought that was reacting to other B12 members leaving. Either way, not really what I'm talking about, the question is, does being in a 16 team conference with the current B12 and 6 members of the ACC (say VT, Clemson, FSU, Miami, UL and ??) sound better or worse than being in the PAC with Oklahoma, OKST, TT in terms of long-term projections? I'm not talking about next 3-5 years, but 10-15 years down the line?
I am just making all of this up, so don't take it as some gospel truth, but you asked for an example of a reason Texas may talk to the PAC, not go, but talk. I think any and all of the above are possible reasons to at least talk.
Oh, everyone is clearly talking to everyone else, no doubt about it. I'm not saying that all of these parties aren't talking to each other. But I just can't make any sense out of the money gains, and that's why I believe that Texas isn't going anywhere.
As for the striking first thing, yeah, it's hard to say. Nebraska and TAMU left before TCU and WVU, but TCU and WVU accepted (Oct. 11, 28 respectively) before Missouri had left for the SEC (Nov. 6). Certainly, the Big10 and the SEC are the biggest in the pecking order, no doubt about it. But to me, the Big12 has now put itself on par with the PAC, both monetarily and in terms of stability. I just don't see anything happening to the Big12 as a league. Worst case scenario in my opinion is that they lose someone like a Kansas to the B1G, in which case they poach a team from the ACC (or Cincy)...
Dann
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the stadium size for cuse bball is not a factor at all. its a very cool thing but means nothing to the b10. other fanbases going to bball games can get tix to any place, cuse playing its games on a fball field doesn't matter. if there was even a quaetion about it which here would be, uconn imediately says i will play all b10 games in xl and theres your good enough size arena. bc on the other hand draws crapy to bball games and has a amsall arena to boot, while not important to the overall view it is noteworthy, but again if that was whats holding them back i have a hard time seing them not say fine we will play out games at the garden. bball arenas will not hold any 1 back imho.
cuse has a 50k dome. its big enough but ther is not room for expansion. the only thing they can do is build a new stadium and i find that a bit out of touch right now considering they are a private school. uconn may be smaller but we all know that u can expand it to 50/60k with a phone call. the b10 knows that so that shouldnt be a issue either. i would also argue that bc has the potential where u could some how add some seats but theya re big enough, they would have trouble getting the city on board with that tho i think.
i think uconns ct market trumps cuse and the upstate mk. bc has boston but its a question of penetration in the bosoton market which is up for debate as we all know. cuse only gets the nyc market when they ball bball bet games in nyc and bc doesn't get anything worth while in nyc. uconn has a stake in nyc and area(fc/wc/pk) and also just simpky has relevant fan base/alum size in the city. that puts uconn ahead of cuse and bc in nyc, just like ruty is ahead of uconn and ther others right now in nyc.
so arens/stadiums should not place bc or cuse higher then uconn in any view, if they do then susan and warde have done a horrible job, horrible selling the program and its future/potential as a B1G member.
uconn has the aau card, well not yet but its clear they will soon. cuse was aau and they fit acadeimcs wise but they lost the aau card. was that just atemp thing or are they losing research and onlu going south? i don't know the answer to that. bc has no research so if the b10 adds them then its really going out of the b10s footprint in several ways. makes them less likely from the eye test.
the uva/unc thing is what it is as i talked about earlier in the previous post. lastly, its only worth a .00001% point but the b10 will i bet bring atleast 1 more puck program in to help that league one day beco me the big boy league. uconn and bc fit that. bc clearly is the stud but puck wont be the decidiing factor but just a extra point in adding a certain school.
overall, uconn seems to fit more than others no?
I don't disagree, but I'm not in a true position to analyze the data Delany is using.
I do think UConn would be the best northern school to add, but UConn will "always be there" and no northern school should be added while the B1G has a chance to steal two southern schools, or one southern school and ND.
I'm sure other B1G members would also be more OK with adding UConn to get to 18 or 20 than to 16, IMO.
UConn could still be left in the wind of course, even if the B1G goes to 20, but the B1G would have to add UNC/UVA/Duke/Cuse/GT/ND or BC. Honestly that wouldn't be a horrible end game for the B1G. Of course if they add UConn instead of GT they have the entire east coast covered from North Carolina to Boston. All theoretical anyhow.
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HuskyHawk
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No chance. Culturally, Texas hates the west coast. So does Oklahoma. The only reason this was ever on the table was because the Big 12 was on the verge of collapse, and because the Pac was desperate. Yes, the Pac realizes that its options to go beyond 12 are limited. Nevada and New Mexico might be nice schools, but there is no real athletic brand there. They are protected by isolation and limited by isolation.
Texas isn't going anywhere, so the Big 12 isn't going anywhere. If they are smart, they should try to reclaim Colorado, plus Utah, plus the Arizona schools and New Mexico and Nevada. 16 teams. Rebrand as the Southwest Conference. That is a hell of a league. And it makes perfect sense culturally, demographically and geographically.
UT, Baylor, TCU, TT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, UC, Utah, NM, NV, AZ, ASU, ISU and WVU.
SubbaBub
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UConn will not always be there. Enough years trapped in purgatory we wither on the vine and become Idaho.
BIG 16 will add either:
No one
UVA and UNC
UVA and UConn
UVA and Syracuse
UConn and Syracuse
Any one of the above plus ND.
I don't see Kansas as a player because Missouri wasn't a player.
Texas will stay in the Big 12 as long as they can control it. OU/OSU won't leave until Texas does.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
BIG 16 will add either:
No one
UVA and UNC
UVA and UConn
UVA and Syracuse
UConn and Syracuse
Any one of the above plus ND.
I don't see Kansas as a player because Missouri wasn't a player.
Texas will stay in the Big 12 as long as they can control it. OU/OSU won't leave until Texas does.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
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