Delany: Space to grow in NY market

[RegisteredUconn]

The more I think about it, the more I think Delaney wants the Northeast. If you look at the BTN revenue model, it maximizes revenue when it has the only local school in the state or within a reasonable proximity. If the Big 10 heads south, it will run into the SEC's new network, and will likely not be able to drive max subscriber fees on cable systems in the south since it will be splitting those markets with the SEC AND ACC. For example, do you think cable providers in Virginia or North Carolina would give the BTN $0.35 per subscriber if they are going to have to do the same for the ACC and SEC networks within a year or two? Unlikely.

On the other hand, if it just heads straight east, it will be able to get on cable systems throughout New York and New England at max subscriber fees.

If academics and prestige were driving the bus, UNC and UVa would have been added to the Big 10 long before Rutgers and Maryland. Something is holding the Big 10 back on those two schools. I think the next round of Big 10 expansion will be 2 of Syracuse, BCU and UConn.

Delaney is focused on content, not delivery. Try stepping back from the current delivery model for a moment. Forget valuations based on
80 cents for this, 50 cents for that. Getting included on the basic package vs. premium package pricing. Frankly, I think revenue projections based on current delivery methods will miss their mark by a mile because delivery is undergoing fundamental changes. People don't like being charged for a bunch of stuff they don't want just to get the stuff they do. Delivery methods that provide what the viewer wants when s/he wants it and charges him/her PRIMARILY for what is viewed will bury the existing players. To paraphrase Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters: Broadcast is dead. Taking that a step further, Comcast is the next Blockbuster.

There are reasons GE sold NBC. High on that list was that GE saw the vulnerability of networks as bundlers and deliverers of content. In the near future, the preferred method of content delivery will be the telephone. Flat-screens will simply provide a more satisfying of viewing experience, not a method of acquiring a signal. The pixels themselves will be controlled via the internet through the telephone. Telephonic delivery means the bundler as the connection between the provider and consumer of content will be severed.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise.​

 

[ddminct]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

STFU

 

[UConnDan97]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

I agree. Even if you take away the GOR for the Big12 (I'll leave that up to the lawyers on the board to analyze), the Big12 still has a higher-paying contract than the ACC, and the new acquisitions of WVU and TCU have solidified any apparent instability that there was to speak of. I would be extremely shocked if UT, OU, OSU, and TT ever talk to the PAC12 again...

 

[mavblues]

If u put psu ruty and md and add uva and uconn u down the road kill the programs of bc cuse pitt wake. Thats how u get stronger and also make others weaker. Then u push unc hard. Invite them and hope they bite. If they do u then give nd a yes or no and they really have no choice. If unc says no then you sit put. Easy. Its going to happen imho.

And this is exactly what I have been saying is going to happen (IMO).

No way GT to B1G. Not a cultural fit, and they would be out on an island. You also start a war with SEC, and they can certainly add someone in the northeast to retaliate. Not in either party's best interests.

Also no way (IMO) B1G takes 2 ACC teams at once. That would be too obvious as to what their motives are (to destroy the ACC). Delany is trying to eliminate a league, and force ND to make a decision.

If you take UVA and UConn next, I think that is enough to force movement of other ACC schools. FSU, Clemson, Miami, and one of VT/GT/NC St go to B12. Other two of VT/GT/NC St go to SEC.

Then NC to B1G, and that leaves ND nobody significant to play Olympic with. They either join B1G, or B1G takes 'Cuse.

ND stays independent, and they can play Duke, WF, Cinci, Temple, USF, UCF, etc.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Delaney is focused on content, not delivery. Try stepping back from the current delivery model for a moment. Forget valuations based on
80 cents for this, 50 cents for that. Getting included on the basic package vs. premium package pricing. Frankly, I think revenue projections based on current delivery methods will miss their mark by a mile because delivery is undergoing fundamental changes. People don't like being charged for a bunch of stuff they don't want just to get the stuff they do. Delivery methods that provide what the viewer wants when s/he wants it and charges him/her PRIMARILY for what is viewed will bury the existing players. To paraphrase Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters: Broadcast is dead. Taking that a step further, Comcast is the next Blockbuster.

There are reasons GE sold NBC. High on that list was that GE saw the vulnerability of networks as bundlers and deliverers of content. In the near future, the preferred method of content delivery will be the telephone. Flat-screens will simply provide a more satisfying of viewing experience, not a method of acquiring a signal. The pixels themselves will be controlled via the internet through the telephone. Telephonic delivery means the bundler as the connection between the provider and consumer of content will be severed.

A few thoughts.

1) Cable and Telephone are interchangeable as delivery mechanisms.

2) I do not think we will ever go to a la carte, because if we did, revenues for the entire industry would crater. If every viewing decision was a separate purchase decision, people would purchase a lot less. People like "buffet pricing" a lot more than they like "a la carte" pricing, even if they spend more as a result. It is basic customer psychology. If television was priced "a la carte", people would read a lot more books.

3) The BTN is a disintermediation mechanism, cutting out ESPN as an aggregater of content. I agree that the value of aggregators of content, such as ESPN, will continue to drop. When there is an unlimited spectrum of choices, the value of any particular channel on that spectrum is pretty low, no matter how much brand recognition they have.

 

[UConnDan97]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.

The implication is false. The Big12 is very stable right now. The new additions and the new tv money have insured that...

 

[husky210]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise.​

GOR works if you have one or maybe two teams that have other options, but if you get Texas and OU (+little brothers) that go to the PAC for instance then what is the Big 12? Fox and Espn don't want to pay the monies they signed on the line for. I'm sure the tv contract works both ways. Add teams xyz and you get this lose teams xyz and you value goes down. I'm sure the 4 aforementioned schools will see that and sue(if they bolt) to get out of the gor. Plus if those four leave the big 12 will certainly be toast regardless.

 

[caw]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

I do think the B12 is more stable than the ACC, but it's not as stable as the other 3.

I don't think it's likely they leave, but Texas adds volatility that is not there for the other three.

 

[SubbaBub]

Completely disagree. UNC is a worse option for the B1G than UConn. Our reach is all of New England which is more populous than North Carolina. The competition for New England is weaker for UConn than the competition for North Carolina is for UNC. UConn is a better fit for the B1G geographically and culturally than UNC. Chapel Hill is far from a lock for the B1G even if they wanted it which, all indications say they don't.

UNC is only a worse option if they won't leave the ACC because of historic ties to Duke, NC State and Wake. Or, if you believe their academic integrity problems extend beyond athletics. Otherwise they are better.

Including VT, NH, ME and RI in the New England market isn't fooling Delany. A case can be made that BC, a better BC, would do better in those markets. Mostly they care about outdoor activities and state U hockey teams.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[caw]

I agree. Even if you take away the GOR for the Big12 (I'll leave that up to the lawyers on the board to analyze), the Big12 still has a higher-paying contract than the ACC, and the new acquisitions of WVU and TCU have solidified any apparent instability that there was to speak of. I would be extremely shocked if UT, OU, OSU, and TT ever talk to the PAC12 again...

Talk, I'm sure they will talk...Go, well that's not as likely.

 

[UConnDan97]

Talk, I'm sure they will talk...Go, well that's not as likely.

The thing is this; if I understand it correctly, the PAC12 is only making half a million more per year per team than the Big12, and I'm not sure how much more Texas gets from the Longhorn Network and such. If we operate under the assumption that only Texas or Oklahoma moving would disrupt the conference, then I don't see any way in the near term for that to happen. There's no driving force to do so...unless there is something about the money (i.e., Tier3 rights) that I haven't calculated into the analysis...

 

[caw]

The thing is this; if I understand it correctly, the PAC12 is only making half a million more per year per team than the Big12, and I'm not sure how much more Texas gets from the Longhorn Network and such. If we operate under the assumption that only Texas or Oklahoma moving would disrupt the conference, then I don't see any way in the near term for that to happen. There's no driving force to do so...unless there is something about the money (i.e., Tier3 rights) that I haven't calculated into the analysis...

There are plenty of reasons they could want to leave. Again, I'm not saying the B12 is as unstable as the ACC, but it hangs on one school, which makes it unstable, IMO.

 

[UConnDan97]

There are plenty of reasons they could want to leave.

Outside of money? Would you like to share some of them? I can't think of even one...

 

[SubbaBub]

The implication is false. The Big12 is very stable right now. The new additions and the new tv money have insured that...

The first time a GOR survives a challenge from a school wanting to leave I'll buy it as a good defense against raiding. Until then it's just a big beware of dog sign.

But, it beats what the ACC has right now.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[UConnDan97]

The first time a GOR survives a challenge from a school wanting to leave I'll buy it as a good defense against raiding. Until then it's just a big beware of dog sign.

But, it beats what the ACC has right now.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

Like I said, I'm not even factoring in the GOR. I'm not well versed enough in legal matters to comment on it. What I'm saying is that right now, it looks like Texas has even money from the Big12 versus the PAC, and it has its own network as well. If the money is equal (or possibly better) in the Big12, what on earth would be the driving force for them to move?!? I can't come up with any reason whatsoever...

 

[pj]

Including VT, NH, ME and RI in the New England market isn't fooling Delany. A case can be made that BC, a better BC, would do better in those markets. Mostly they care about outdoor activities and state U hockey teams.

No. UConn will bring Big Ten teams within an hour of Vermont, 1.5 hours of Boston and Providence, 2 hours of Manchester NH, 3 hours of Portland ME. Big Ten alumni and fans all over NE will be able to come to games and see games on local cable and will develop a stronger allegiance to the league.

BC brings only their alumni. UConn brings both a bigger alumni base, but also a host of fans who grew up in Connecticut but never went to UConn. UConn has more fans in Boston than BC does.

UConn's entry to Hockey East means that hockey fans throughout northern New England will be seeing a UConn team locally. That generates interest for the school and in its football and basketball programs, which will be the elite programs of New England. Marketing people will know how to pitch UConn as New England's college team, the way Syracuse pitches itself as NYC's college team -- but more effectively.

 

[Rumrunner]

One thing that nelson brings up is the encroachment of the Big 10 into SEC territory. I doubt that Delany cares one whit about encroaching into ACC territory. Heck he ballsily just cut the ACC in half with MD and Rutgers. There's no question that the triumvirate of conferences is the SEC, Pac 12, and the Big 10. The Pac 12 is isolated geographically. The SEC is anchored by a southern culture for big time football. The Big 10 has that the 3 yards and a cloud of dust culture anchored by schools with undergrad populations of 30k, 40k that are viewed by all as the gorilla(s) of the state.

But I do think that Delany would not encroach into SEC territory. And at some point, exactly where SEC territory ends has to be answered. Right now it isn't in North Carolina or Virginia. But once, eg., Delany says I want in on NC, that pokes the proverbial bear. And if you're Delany why do that? Is the NC market so critical to the Big 10's success that it is worth a fight if, eg, NC State ends up in the SEC. Same thing with Virginia. With respect to Georgia Tech, this is magnified. Georgia Tech against Georgia and the might of the SEC. Atlanta where the SEC just saw a huge ratings and spectator success. Atlanta is SEC territory. It would be like Slive coming into Chicago and raising up DePaul into a football pwerhouse. I don't think that this can be underestimated.

Now contrast that with Delany going for the northeast jugular by taking UConn and (the 16th is a problem due to lack of candidates, but I guess Syracuse, pitt, bc). Exactly whom will he offend? Swofford by isolating eg, BC if BC is left alone? Delany wouldn't (nor from a business standpoint should he) care about that.

We have always been told that the Big 10 is a conservative conference. That with its power and prestige that it doesn't need to act recklessly. The safe, prudent and best business decision is to get southern new england, tie up NYC, isolate any northeast competition, and call it a day and let the next 25-30 years play out as we increasingly transition into digital distribution. If there will be a bit of daring to it, then add UVA and use northern virginia and southern virginia as the 38th parallel.

 

[pj]

The B12 is a clear #4 in terms of stability. It is held together by Texas and Oklahoma. The GoR helps them, but all contracts have termination provisions and eventually expire.

I think the likely thing is that the B12 grows and becomes a more stable superconference. They add the southern half of the ACC (FSU, Miami, Clemson, Ga Tech, ??? from NC and Va leftover after B1G and SEC are done) and have an east and west division.

 

[caw]

Outside of money? Would you like to share some of them? I can't think of even one...

Petulance? Exposure? Future dollars? Wanting to be in a league with ND (if ND joins B1G - not likely)? Secession (JK, checking if you are paying attention). Striking first (not liking the league's possible future as a combination of ACC/B12, or simply liking the PAC better)?

 

[RegisteredUconn]

A few thoughts.

1) Cable and Telephone are interchangeable as delivery mechanisms.

2) I do not think we will ever go to a la carte, because if we did, revenues for the entire industry would crater. If every viewing decision was a separate purchase decision, people would purchase a lot less. People like "buffet pricing" a lot more than they like "a la carte" pricing, even if they spend more as a result. It is basic customer psychology. If television was priced "a la carte", people would read a lot more books.

3) The BTN is a disintermediation mechanism, cutting out ESPN as an aggregater of content. I agree that the value of aggregators of content, such as ESPN, will continue to drop. When there is an unlimited spectrum of choices, the value of any particular channel on that spectrum is pretty low, no matter how much brand recognition they have.

I agree with your points except that I don't know what disintermediation means and distinguish between cable and cellular telephone because the latter doesn't require a physical connection. My point, in part, was around what the customer wants, i.e., not paying for stuff they don't want. More broadly, delivery is in a state of flux, and where it stabalizes around is anyone's guess. Basing valuation on that much uncertainty is extremely difficult and therefore risky.

 

[UConnDan97]

Petulance? Exposure? Future dollars? Wanting to be in a league with ND (if ND joins B1G - not likely)? Secession (JK, checking if you are paying attention). Striking first (not liking the league's possible future as a combination of ACC/B12, or simply liking the PAC better)?

Wow. I'll have to address these one by one:

Petulance - Texas is not any more petulant than they have ever been at any point in their history. They are equally petulant, in my opinion.
Exposure - Did you just say that Texas is worried about exposure? TEXAS??? That's where the Longhorn Network thing comes in, and that's what I'm talking about.
Wanting to be in a league with ND - Everyone does, and nobody knows when or where that would be. Most people agree it wouldn't be the PAC...
Secession - Possible. But that would insure that they stay away from the B1G or PAC. More stable, not less.
Striking First - They did. Welcome, TCU and WVU!

I hope I got them all...

 

[Dann]

this is the whole chess vs checkers vs tic tac toe.

the b10, sec and pac have been playing chess the past 10 years quietly. slowly defining the region or borders which they want to lay claim to. it took a while for ppl to notice. they flirted with tons of schools but pick certain battle and pick certain schools.

meanwhile the b12 was playing checkers, they took some things for granted and they made some interesting decisions. at the same time the acc was playing tic tac toe.

the pac grabbed utah. who the hell was going to steal them away? no one, but utah was on the rise in sports and it fits well in the pac geography, it bridged them to colorado being a nice fit also. the state of nevada will be next when they add again. u can book that. the pac has only 1 competitor and thats what ever becomes of the mwc. its extemely weak but has potential to have , byu, sdsu, unr and bsu all together if ducks get in a row. thats like the mac vs the b10 out west with a bit better sports. the pac is for ever in good shape and they will add a couple of those schools in time to get to 16. it will be the pac and then mwc with a b10 vs mac type feel. the question is how defined are the pac's borders? the answer is very defined. they reached to colorado and they will get nevada as a filler. the only question is if they see the state of new mexico or no as worth investment. if so then they will border texas. if not so be it but no one is touching that territory.

the sec took the borders to another level. they flexed major muscle going to the heart of b12 country and getting atm. they also went to the border of b10 country by getting mizzu. mizzu was a good add for the sec tv and sports wise. but u have to wonder why mizzu wasn't b10 worthy and the reason was there market was already covered by the b10 enough where it didn't make sense to add the, to the b10. they fit 100% otherwise. so then u have to have the b10 vision, they were willing to let the sec come right up to there border with mizzu, why? becuase the b10 knew they were going to extend its border south at some point and east to rival that to the sec. they truck with ruty and md. ruty was there extension east syaing were going to own the coast line and in up north. md was there way of bridging uva and possibly unc to the south and pusihing close to sec borders.

whats coming next is the b10 and sec defining its borders exactly. its a stale mate now both needing 2 teams. neither wants to have teams in the same states which means direct competition both on the field and tv cable box wise. so both need to make strategic moves that fit best with there goals. the end will be both meeting somewhere and defining borders and leaving the leftovers for the b12 to be the mismatch conf that extends in all 3 territorys and never has a geographic fit.

the acc while all of this was going on had a chance to lay stake in the game, if they did make a splash then the b12 never signs a gor and the b12 blows up. instead the acc played tic tac toe and destroyed itself. schools like cuse and pitt wern't the right adds and everyone knows it. from a value standpoint, on the field, identity and so on. they simple just wern't the righ adds. if the acc added wvu, ruty, uconn and lets say cuse. then thats a game changer. u bring the best fball and bball schools form the be(wvu and uconn) and u now have a east caost foorptint that arguably is valueable and can stick together. the b10, sec and pac would have then ate up the b12. but becuase the acc vision was dumb, they failed horribly.

the sec and b10 are in a network battler. one has it and ones going to have it come janurary. its a game changer. it not just about biggest market, its about big fanbases and cable boxes. big fanbases are big publics and rare schools like nd. the acc has those but not the setup or stability now. huge fail on the acc's part. we now have to wait for the sec and b10 to define its borders.

the smart move for both is this. we all know the va and nc schools are valueable. but if u cross them, then it hurts each other(sec/b10) becuas eof the competition in networks. both leagues are well aware of that.

the sec can add unc and duke. that fits what i have just talked about. it kills off wake, and it forces ncst to be one of the leftovers in the b12. it also defines the sec/b10 border as north cary being a sec state. it then allows the b10 to define va as a b10 state with uva. for the b10 the question is #16. does nd bite? if not the logical way to go is northeast to lock up that foorptint. the b10 needs to have more fanbase/tv wise then the north east leftovers. right now they have psu/ruty and md. but uconn, cuse, pitt and bc are for the taking and will not be b12 schools. thats a 4 vs 3 and just enough where while the b10 may be bigger and better, those schools together can stay relevant in a best up acc together. so the b10 needs to strike. they need the team that will fit them best tvs, markets, cable boxes wise. uconn i feel is in a good position compared to pitt, bc and cuse but we shall see in time. pitt is like mizzu, it doesn't make sense tv wise which is the #1 motive so they are one of the left behinds. cuse, bc and uconn then battle for the spot. uconn has the big fanbase, doubles down grabbing nyc and brings good markets and other quality pieces to the b10 puzzle. cuse and bc do also but to lesser degrees. the b10 and sec can in these next moves kill off a couple dying private schools in the landscape, thats a huge extra bonus point for owning a footprint.

the b12 doesn't have a network so the b10 and b12 aren't afraid to have that conf in its backyards. they know they are a clear 4th tv wise but competitive on the field. thats fine in the b10/sec eyes.

sec+duke and unc
b10+uva and uconn
b12+miami, fsu, gt, clem, ncst and vt

the b12 gets its eastern division with wvu added to that group and one of a texas school(tcu) or ist going to that division. the b12 lives and is the 4th of the 4x16 super confs. this all will be done before the sec gets its network off the ground and the b10 has its contract redo in 2017.
the pac will react just to make sure perception wise its accepted as a legit 1 of the 4. they will add unr and bsu. byu and sdsu would be the other 2 i think with nm, haw being in the running.

now look at these 4 leagues on a map. 3 of them make all the sense in the world and the 4th while stretched out also makes sense. were some rivalaries and realtionships ruined? sure and that stinks, but the end goal isn't the dooma nd gloom ppl are bitching about.

once this 4x16 is acomplished which i think will be no later than 2017, then the next step is how far u can stretch the leagues #'s wise to give yourself max value and inventory for your network and also for tiers programing. it makes perfect sense for the b10 to go bigger to 18 with nd and 1 other northeast school. for the pac and sec i'm not sure it makes sense to go bigger. the b12 will stay as is for ever if it can and any adds mean it lost schools first.

its all very possible that this happens-the new playoff evolves quickly to a 8 team playoff. and the 4 big boys get auto bids leaving 4 open bids every year. if this is so then nd will never join the b10. this is why the b10 can't wait on nd, it can only force a decision and then move on. in this the 4 big boys have conf ship games for bids to the playoff and the 4 open sports are by rankings/committie slections or w/e u pick them wise. in this case what the b10 and sec and b12 did was the acc so bad that nd struggles in its other sports. the reason nd moved to the acc was it reached a point where other sports in the nbe didn't work for them. bball games vs uconn and soccer games vs lville wern't enough in the grand scheme to stay so they move to the acc where other sports could live well. now that the acc is bc/cuse/wake and crew, once again nd's other sports are in a conf that isn't worthy in there eyes. the b10 then can add the other sports and let nd be indy still, but the b10 will get a much better deal then the acc got and it will be worth while for both parties.

there is your 4x16 with all that needs to be talked about.

the mac is at 13 teams. they need to get ot 16 and they will with small potentials that expand footprint. it will be important for the mac to go east and south so that they can open up new foortprint and recruiting areas to stay relevaent under the b10 shadow. schools like unh, maine, sbrook and odu will be talked about for example.

the new big east will be a football league, a east/southern cusa on roids basically. any program worthy of that fits. tulane, ecu are only the beinging. uab, smiss, marsh come to mind. this league will get to 16 as well and rival or be above the mac on the playing field. the question is, can the new big east go for the kill and take back a few schools or does the acc try to live. the acc has a crappy contract + the raycom bs. the nbe will have a new fresh contract with options. who is to say the left outs like cuse, pitt, bc, wake and lville dont rejoin the big east and get the best contract possible. this would potentially be the only reason the bball schools would be interested in hanging around instead of making there own big bball only league.

cuse/pitt/bc/wake/lville
+temple/cincy/usf/ucf/memphis/uh/smu
+ecu/tulane
thats 14
lets include navy, thats 15 and a fball only
+ 1 of amry/marsh/smiss/uab and u are at a 16 team fball league.

then look at the makeup. you have 13 all sport teams of that 16(navy, army and ecu fball only). that doesn't work. it needs to be 14 fball schools. u can either make ecu all sports or not add army and go a different route. lets say ecu for all sports. thats 14 all sports teams and army/navyy for fball. then u can add the 7 bball schools who stay becuase of lville/cuse/pitt being back. thats 21 schools hat play bball or 20 round robin bball league games every year rotating h/w by year. thats max inventory for the league, it keeps a bball identity somehat but also keep the fball schools relevant enough as a battle for the 5th best league. this league has a conf ship just like the others in fball and has a good shot at one of the 4 open slots in the playoff if a team like lville is ranked high enough. there your possible seat in the playoff, a best tv possible and staying somehwhat relevant. no one is left out so the big boys are never viewed as killing schools and no court issues with antitrust blah blah. a side note in this is it allows the nnnnbe to have a north and south or east and west division set up in fball that keeps most of the potentials and big boys in different divisions so schools can be happy with who they play schedule wise but this is just a tlaking point for chat later in the game. the acc dies becuase it was playing tic tac toe and the new big east lives becuase they got a new leader and started playing chess, it was to ate to start playing chess for a big boy seat, but in time to be a relevant piece.

 

[caw]

Wow. I'll have to address these one by one:

Petulance - Texas is not any more petulant than they have ever been at any point in their history. They are equally petulant, in my opinion.
Exposure - Did you just say that Texas is worried about exposure? TEXAS??? That's where the Longhorn Network thing comes in, and that's what I'm talking about.
Wanting to be in a league with ND - Everyone does, and nobody knows when or where that would be. Most people agree it wouldn't be the PAC...
Secession - Possible. But that would insure that they stay away from the B1G or PAC. More stable, not less.
Striking First - They did. Welcome, TCU and WVU!

I hope I got them all...

LOL, Texas is just as petulant as ever, they can't become moreso, I agree

Exposure, one can always get more and the PAC would carry more TV's than the current B12, especially if OK, OKST and TT also come for the ride. Just an example.

ND, honestly they wouldn't shock me if they did go to the PAC just to mess with everyone else.

TCU and WVU is striking first? I thought that was reacting to other B12 members leaving. Either way, not really what I'm talking about, the question is, does being in a 16 team conference with the current B12 and 6 members of the ACC (say VT, Clemson, FSU, Miami, UL and ??) sound better or worse than being in the PAC with Oklahoma, OKST, TT in terms of long-term projections? I'm not talking about next 3-5 years, but 10-15 years down the line?

I am just making all of this up, so don't take it as some gospel truth, but you asked for an example of a reason Texas may talk to the PAC, not go, but talk. I think any and all of the above are possible reasons to at least talk.

 

[caw]

this is the whole chess vs checkers vs tic tac toe.

Well it would be doom and gloom if Cuse or BC were the choice over UConn. I can see the arguments for Cuse and UConn

Cuse has a bigger stadium for football and basketball.

UConn is a public school with a shot at being AAU in the future.

The question is, who has a bigger reach overall? Does Cuse bring enough sets in upstate to counter UConn's sets in CT/advantage in NYC/Western Mass/potentially Boston? Cuse really doesn't reach outside the state of New York, but is that enough?

I can't see BC as bringing as much as either Cuse or UConn.

Also, if B1G grabs UNC (somehow) and UVA instead of going north, does the SEC even try to get NCST or do they just give up on the state of North Carolina?