Delany: Space to grow in NY market

[ZooCougar]

I dream of a day when people stop proposing the Yale Bowl as a suitable location for a huge crowd. Anyone who has actually been there lately would never dream of it.

Me too. The fact that people even think that it is an acceptable state of affairs just shows they don't understand the dynamics in this game.

 

[ZooCougar]

To me, room to grow means they can make gains with the foot they have and eventually have a bigger share of the shoe. Not add another foot.

If I really cared about the Northeast, then if I were Delany, I would have snatched Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse. With Penn State and Maryland you now have an east coast presence that rivals the ACC along with utter domination from Pennsylvania to Iowa Nebraska.

Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State is a half measure to me. BC and Georgia Tech are half measures and really disjointed.

Taking UVA means that they are interested in something else.

If the B1G had Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and CT then they pretty much have every major Athletics Department in that part of the country. Done Deal. You get ready made historic Rivalries, SU-UConn in hoops. SU-Penn State in Football etc.. Instead of getting a market you annex an entire part of the country.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

To me, room to grow means they can make gains with the foot they have and eventually have a bigger share of the shoe. Not add another foot.

If I really cared about the Northeast, then if I were Delany, I would have snatched Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse. With Penn State and Maryland you now have an east coast presence that rivals the ACC along with utter domination from Pennsylvania to Iowa Nebraska.

Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State is a half measure to me. BC and Georgia Tech are half measures and really disjointed.

Taking UVA means that they are interested in something else.

If the B1G had Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and CT then they pretty much have every major Athletics Department in that part of the country. Done Deal. You get ready made historic Rivalries, SU-UConn in hoops. SU-Penn State in Football etc.. Instead of getting a market you annex an entire part of the country.

Just like there will be no Yale Bowl, there will be no Syracuse. I get that people want the Orange because growing up in pre-Calhoun CT gave them an affinity to a nearby institution with national relevance. UConn has its own national relevance now. For the most part, B1G members shout the names of their states by the very mention of the institution. People have an affinity with geography. Somebody says "Utah" and people who live there pay attention. I believe Edsall wanted to capitalize on that affinity when he placed "Connecticut" on the jerseys rather than UConn. Rutgers is an exception but most in NJ know Rutgers is to NJ as Maryland is to MD. Northwestern is an anachronism. If the B1G had a "do over" today would they get an invitation?

The whole "contiguous" argument is problematic unless Delaney is speaking relative to a region rather than specifically referencing states. In other words, institutions that share a common connection occupying space in the same region. The Northeast stretches from northern VA to southern VT, NH, and ME. Additionally, UConn and Rutgers share a tight connection via the NYC metro area. Surely someone as forward thinking as Delaney isn't going to allow the meaning of contiguous as defined for the less densely populated mid-west of the last century to disqualify a highly qualied candidate whose "geography" meets the spirit of contiguous even if it fails to deliver on the letter.

 

[Dooley]

I would say UVA, UNC, UConn and Cuse make the most sense for B1G expansion. Locks in NYC without having to bow down to ND, reaches into Boston without having to add the mediocre BC athletic program to the mix (who is on an athletic island in a market that doesn't care about BC), brings three great basketball schools for winter TV programming, and further locks in the DC area while diluting the ACC product.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

UConn and Syracuse football is certainly not on the B1G's level right now,

B1G football is nothing special right now. OSU finished undefeated but was only 13 in Sagarin because the league sucks.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

 

[CL82]

for the record if its solely an issue of stadium capacity, there already is a 60000 seat stadium in Connecticut. And I actually think schools like Michigan and Ohio State would enjoy the press of playing at Yale if they'd have us.

If it's an issue of stadium capacity, we expand the Rent. If they want us to a reduced share for an extended period of time, we do it. Look, we are screwed where we are right now. Whatever they ask, we give. It's that simple, and no one expects it to go differently than that. Not us, not them.

 

[CL82]

Just like there will be no Yale Bowl, there will be no Syracuse. I get that people want the Orange because growing up in pre-Calhoun CT gave them an affinity to a nearby institution with national relevance. UConn has its own national relevance now. For the most part, B1G members shout the names of their states by the very mention of the institution. People have an affinity with geography. Somebody says "Utah" and people who live there pay attention. I believe Edsall wanted to capitalize on that affinity when he placed "Connecticut" on the jerseys rather than UConn. Rutgers is an exception but most in NJ know Rutgers is to NJ as Maryland is to MD. Northwestern is an anachronism. If the B1G had a "do over" today would they get an invitation?

The whole "contiguous" argument is problematic unless Delaney is speaking relative to a region rather than specifically referencing states. In other words, institutions that share a common connection occupying space in the same region. The Northeast stretches from northern VA to southern VT, NH, and ME. Additionally, UConn and Rutgers share a tight connection via the NYC metro area. Surely someone as forward thinking as Delaney isn't going to allow the meaning of contiguous as defined for the less densely populated mid-west of the last century to disqualify a highly qualied candidate whose "geography" meets the spirit of contiguous even if it fails to deliver on the letter.

I agree. Syracuse is a hedge to make us "contiguous." It isn't a perfect fit for the B1G, but then again, neither are we.

 

[SubbaBub]

Delany is a very impressive dude. Flagship = UVA UNC and Uconn. Syracuse is as close to a FB playing flagship as you can get in NY so they might make an exception for them. The idea of BC or GT I think doesn't qualify.

You like 600,000 BT fans in NYC, Jim? There is another 600,000 fans ready to join 30 miles away to the east with room to grow.

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[RegisteredUconn]

This reaffirms what we have been saying. Delany isn't stupid enough to think he could command the ny market. He just wants his fair share. The benefit to adding UConn is clear-it gives the big 10 a lock on md, nj, ct, pa with a firm grip on nyc. minimal competition from frozen outlier syracuse, athletic midget bc, and penn state's toy dog, pitt.

Also, the article is written from the perspective of the northeast, not the mid-atlantic. i can't imagine that delaney ignores new england in that calculus.

finally, did you see him mention " flagship universities, not AAU ( of which uconn will be one in 5-10 years inexorably anyways).

flagships mean no pitt, bc nor syracuse.

uva was not on the list of acc schools who were the impetus behind the acc solidarity letter, even though it was pushed by the supposed rumor-effected schools, as if uva wasn't one of the most prominently and consistently mentioned schools to be named.

Flagship also means no Notre Dame. Their days as a B1G target have ended. ND represents no significant addition to the B1G's current market. New England does. Does UConn deliver those 15 million people that live in New England? Today? Of course not. Expansion is about twenty years from now. Delaney's message was rife with references to "room to grow" and "over time" neither of which suggest his strategy was formulated as an historian. The question is, can UConn as part of the B1G be marketed to New England?

Part of any marketing stragegy must consider not only the institutions under consideration themselves but the interaction among those institutions. The B1G benefits as much (and maybe more) from the contextof the Ohio State/Michigan game as it does from those institutions taken individually. Maryland and Rutgers, even taken together, even taken together with Penn State, won't generate the domination and therefore the maximum contextual value in the Northeast that a five team coterie of Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Connecticut, and Virginia will.

A very important unanswered question is UConn or UNC. I believe UConn brings more positives and North Carolina more negatives. New England has a population of 15 million, North Carolina's 8.5. UConn shares New England primarily with BC. UNC shares North Carolina with 3 other schools equal to or better than BC. UConn would bring insignificant competition for the target market from the ACC. UNC places the B1G in very direct competition with the ACC's strong suit and likely the SEC when it poaches a North Carolina school. Although North Carolina is contiguous with Virginia, it is discontiguous with the Northeast Super Region. The clear targets for the B1G are, or should be, UVa and UConn.

 

[SubbaBub]

If UNC wants our "spot " they get it without question. As for New England, most of NE thinks of college sports the way Alaska thinks of college sports, not much. Our reach is limited to CT and central and western mass plus whatever national following we have, which is more than our following in Northern NE.

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[caw]

Delany is a very impressive dude. Flagship = UVA UNC and Uconn. Syracuse is as close to a FB playing flagship as you can get in NY so they might make an exception for them. The idea of BC or GT I think doesn't qualify.

You like 600,000 BT fans in NYC, Jim? There is another 600,000 fans ready to join 30 miles away to the east with room to grow.

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I agree, there is no flagship college in the state of NY, at least athletically speaking. Cuse would make the most sense, if they really wanted to add a NY college.

Flagship not in big 3 conferences:

• UNC
• UVA
• Kansas
• UConn
• Cuse?
• Oklahoma - probably won't leave Oklahoma State/Texas
• Texas - probably won't leave Oklahoma/Texas Tech
• WVU - Academics

Not Flagship, not in big 3 conferences, but in BE/ACC/B12:

• BC
• Duke
• WF
• NCST
• Clemson
• FSU
• Miami
• GT
• VT
• KSU
• OST
• Baylor
• TCU
• Texas Tech
• ISU
• Cinci
• Pitt
• Temple
• USF
• UL

Notre Dame:

• ND

 

[RegisteredUconn]

If UNC wants our "spot " they get it without question. As for New England, most of NE thinks of college sports the way Alaska thinks of college sports, not much. Our reach is limited to CT and central and western mass plus whatever national following we have, which is more than our following in Northern NE.

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Completely disagree. UNC is a worse option for the B1G than UConn. Our reach is all of New England which is more populous than North Carolina. The competition for New England is weaker for UConn than the competition for North Carolina is for UNC. UConn is a better fit for the B1G geographically and culturally than UNC. Chapel Hill is far from a lock for the B1G even if they wanted it which, all indications say they don't.

 

[Dann]

If u put psu ruty and md and add uva and uconn u down the road kill the programs of bc cuse pitt wake. Thats how u get stronger and also make others weaker. Then u push unc hard. Invite them and hope they bite. If they do u then give nd a yes or no and they really have no choice. If unc says no then you sit put. Easy. Its going to happen imho.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

If u put psu ruty and md and add uva and uconn u down the road kill the programs of bc cuse pitt wake. Thats how u get stronger and also make others weaker. Then u push unc hard. Invite them and hope they bite. If they do u then give nd a yes or no and they really have no choice. If unc says no then you sit put. Easy. Its going to happen imho.

It will take decades for the B1G to swallow the Northeast. That's much too long a time horizon to plan. Be aware of, yes. Plan for in some meaningful way, no.

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree, there is no flagship college in the state of NY, at least athletically speaking. Cuse would make the most sense, if they really wanted to add a NY college.

Flagship not in big 3 conferences:

• UNC
• UVA
• Kansas
• UConn
• Cuse?
• Oklahoma - probably won't leave Oklahoma State/Texas
• Texas - probably won't leave Oklahoma/Texas Tech
• WVU - Academics

Not Flagship, not in big 3 conferences, but in BE/ACC/B12:

• BC
• Duke
• WF
• NCST
• Clemson
• FSU
• Miami
• GT
• VT
• KSU
• OST
• Baylor
• TCU
• Texas Tech
• ISU
• Cinci
• Pitt
• Temple
• USF
• UL

Notre Dame:

• ND

Did you just use the term "Big 3"??? So we're down to three now? Texas and Oklahoma are so screwed...

 

[Dooley]

I just hope they move sooner than later. I really don't want to refresh this CR board every minute for the next 3-5 years. The sooner UConn is in the B1G, the sooner our fanbase gets energized, stadium is expanded, and UConn can start to dominate the New England and northeast regions on the B1G's behalf.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The more I think about it, the more I think Delaney wants the Northeast. If you look at the BTN revenue model, it maximizes revenue when it has the only local school in the state or within a reasonable proximity. If the Big 10 heads south, it will run into the SEC's new network, and will likely not be able to drive max subscriber fees on cable systems in the south since it will be splitting those markets with the SEC AND ACC. For example, do you think cable providers in Virginia or North Carolina would give the BTN $0.35 per subscriber if they are going to have to do the same for the ACC and SEC networks within a year or two? Unlikely.

On the other hand, if it just heads straight east, it will be able to get on cable systems throughout New York and New England at max subscriber fees.

If academics and prestige were driving the bus, UNC and UVa would have been added to the Big 10 long before Rutgers and Maryland. Something is holding the Big 10 back on those two schools. I think the next round of Big 10 expansion will be 2 of Syracuse, BCU and UConn.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Did you just use the term "Big 3"??? So we're down to three now? Texas and Oklahoma are so screwed...

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.

 

[CL82]

If academics and prestige were driving the bus, UNC and UVa would have been added to the Big 10 long before Rutgers and Maryland. Something is holding the Big 10 back on those two schools. I think the next round of Big 10 expansion will be 2 of Syracuse, BCU and UConn.

So you are saying the next round of Big 10 expansion will be Syracuse and UConn

 

[caw]

Did you just use the term "Big 3"??? So we're down to three now? Texas and Oklahoma are so screwed...

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The more I think about it, the more I think Delaney wants the Northeast. If you look at the BTN revenue model, it maximizes revenue when it has the only local school in the state or within a reasonable proximity. If the Big 10 heads south, it will run into the SEC's new network, and will likely not be able to drive max subscriber fees on cable systems in the south since it will be splitting those markets with the SEC AND ACC. For example, do you think cable providers in Virginia or North Carolina would give the BTN $0.35 per subscriber if they are going to have to do the same for the ACC and SEC networks within a year or two? Unlikely.

On the other hand, if it just heads straight east, it will be able to get on cable systems throughout New York and New England at max subscriber fees.

If academics and prestige were driving the bus, UNC and UVa would have been added to the Big 10 long before Rutgers and Maryland. Something is holding the Big 10 back on those two schools. I think the next round of Big 10 expansion will be 2 of Syracuse, BCU and UConn.

Delaney is focused on content, not delivery. Try stepping back from the current delivery model for a moment. Forget valuations based on
80 cents for this, 50 cents for that. Getting included on the basic package vs. premium package pricing. Frankly, I think revenue projections based on current delivery methods will miss their mark by a mile because delivery is undergoing fundamental changes. People don't like being charged for a bunch of stuff they don't want just to get the stuff they do. Delivery methods that provide what the viewer wants when s/he wants it and charges him/her PRIMARILY for what is viewed will bury the existing players. To paraphrase Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters: Broadcast is dead. Taking that a step further, Comcast is the next Blockbuster.

There are reasons GE sold NBC. High on that list was that GE saw the vulnerability of networks as bundlers and deliverers of content. In the near future, the preferred method of content delivery will be the telephone. Flat-screens will simply provide a more satisfying of viewing experience, not a method of acquiring a signal. The pixels themselves will be controlled via the internet through the telephone. Telephonic delivery means the bundler as the connection between the provider and consumer of content will be severed.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise.​

 

[ddminct]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

STFU

 

[UConnDan97]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

I agree. Even if you take away the GOR for the Big12 (I'll leave that up to the lawyers on the board to analyze), the Big12 still has a higher-paying contract than the ACC, and the new acquisitions of WVU and TCU have solidified any apparent instability that there was to speak of. I would be extremely shocked if UT, OU, OSU, and TT ever talk to the PAC12 again...

 

[mavblues]

If u put psu ruty and md and add uva and uconn u down the road kill the programs of bc cuse pitt wake. Thats how u get stronger and also make others weaker. Then u push unc hard. Invite them and hope they bite. If they do u then give nd a yes or no and they really have no choice. If unc says no then you sit put. Easy. Its going to happen imho.

And this is exactly what I have been saying is going to happen (IMO).

No way GT to B1G. Not a cultural fit, and they would be out on an island. You also start a war with SEC, and they can certainly add someone in the northeast to retaliate. Not in either party's best interests.

Also no way (IMO) B1G takes 2 ACC teams at once. That would be too obvious as to what their motives are (to destroy the ACC). Delany is trying to eliminate a league, and force ND to make a decision.

If you take UVA and UConn next, I think that is enough to force movement of other ACC schools. FSU, Clemson, Miami, and one of VT/GT/NC St go to B12. Other two of VT/GT/NC St go to SEC.

Then NC to B1G, and that leaves ND nobody significant to play Olympic with. They either join B1G, or B1G takes 'Cuse.

ND stays independent, and they can play Duke, WF, Cinci, Temple, USF, UCF, etc.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Delaney is focused on content, not delivery. Try stepping back from the current delivery model for a moment. Forget valuations based on
80 cents for this, 50 cents for that. Getting included on the basic package vs. premium package pricing. Frankly, I think revenue projections based on current delivery methods will miss their mark by a mile because delivery is undergoing fundamental changes. People don't like being charged for a bunch of stuff they don't want just to get the stuff they do. Delivery methods that provide what the viewer wants when s/he wants it and charges him/her PRIMARILY for what is viewed will bury the existing players. To paraphrase Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters: Broadcast is dead. Taking that a step further, Comcast is the next Blockbuster.

There are reasons GE sold NBC. High on that list was that GE saw the vulnerability of networks as bundlers and deliverers of content. In the near future, the preferred method of content delivery will be the telephone. Flat-screens will simply provide a more satisfying of viewing experience, not a method of acquiring a signal. The pixels themselves will be controlled via the internet through the telephone. Telephonic delivery means the bundler as the connection between the provider and consumer of content will be severed.

A few thoughts.

1) Cable and Telephone are interchangeable as delivery mechanisms.

2) I do not think we will ever go to a la carte, because if we did, revenues for the entire industry would crater. If every viewing decision was a separate purchase decision, people would purchase a lot less. People like "buffet pricing" a lot more than they like "a la carte" pricing, even if they spend more as a result. It is basic customer psychology. If television was priced "a la carte", people would read a lot more books.

3) The BTN is a disintermediation mechanism, cutting out ESPN as an aggregater of content. I agree that the value of aggregators of content, such as ESPN, will continue to drop. When there is an unlimited spectrum of choices, the value of any particular channel on that spectrum is pretty low, no matter how much brand recognition they have.

 

[UConnDan97]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.

The implication is false. The Big12 is very stable right now. The new additions and the new tv money have insured that...

 

[husky210]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise.​

GOR works if you have one or maybe two teams that have other options, but if you get Texas and OU (+little brothers) that go to the PAC for instance then what is the Big 12? Fox and Espn don't want to pay the monies they signed on the line for. I'm sure the tv contract works both ways. Add teams xyz and you get this lose teams xyz and you value goes down. I'm sure the 4 aforementioned schools will see that and sue(if they bolt) to get out of the gor. Plus if those four leave the big 12 will certainly be toast regardless.

 

[caw]

There are 3 conferences with a secure future. That of the others is in doubt. Whether you call them the "big" 3 or the "secure" 3 doesn't matter. The implication is clear.​

I did, because I don't view either of the ACC/B12 (and of course the BE) as stable. Something will form from the rubble of the ACC/B12 (and BE) but it's really not clear what. It appears the B12 is in the frontseat, but if the Pac12 can come to agreement with Texas et al first...​

I know people are frustrated with me for constantly bring up the B12 Grant of Rights....but posts like these every day.....wow.​

However stable a GOR may be, the Big 10, Pac 12 & Big 12 are now equally stable. The ACC is radically unstable because it doesn't have a GOR. It is impossible to argue otherwise. ​

I do think the B12 is more stable than the ACC, but it's not as stable as the other 3.

I don't think it's likely they leave, but Texas adds volatility that is not there for the other three.

 

[SubbaBub]

Completely disagree. UNC is a worse option for the B1G than UConn. Our reach is all of New England which is more populous than North Carolina. The competition for New England is weaker for UConn than the competition for North Carolina is for UNC. UConn is a better fit for the B1G geographically and culturally than UNC. Chapel Hill is far from a lock for the B1G even if they wanted it which, all indications say they don't.

UNC is only a worse option if they won't leave the ACC because of historic ties to Duke, NC State and Wake. Or, if you believe their academic integrity problems extend beyond athletics. Otherwise they are better.

Including VT, NH, ME and RI in the New England market isn't fooling Delany. A case can be made that BC, a better BC, would do better in those markets. Mostly they care about outdoor activities and state U hockey teams.

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