Dee Kantner as a ref... | The Boneyard

Dee Kantner as a ref...

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da60

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With the tournaments upcoming I shudder to think that our UConn girls will wind up with a Dee Kantner as a ref. Most of us BY'ers know where I am coming from. Please don't try to convince me that there isn't a bias & jealousy out there. I recall the frustration in Geno's body language when she made outlandish calls against him. She is pathetic, but not alone out there. Naturally people want to see top team's upset, but call a fair game! She was dumped by the NBA years ago.
Unfortunately she is not alone. If we happen to go down, let it be in fair and balanced manner.
We are a fine bunch & deserve it. The greatness of Geno, et al is a fact...what he has accomplished is beyond extroadinary. Just see what the committee's come up with. Undeserved! It will be exciting & tough...let's go girls! As one of the popular posters on the BY says....let's make UConn bad for basketball â
 
I'm certainly not going to try and convince you otherwise but for whats it's worth I think she's as good if not better than your average referee. Every fan base has fans that think the referees are biased against their team. Just visit some of the other boards. The complaints are eerily similar that the refs had it in for their team when they lose. It's human nature I guess.
 
da60 said:
With the tournaments upcoming I shudder to think that our UConn girls will wind up with a Dee Kantner as a ref. Most of us BY'ers know where I am coming from. Please don't try to convince me that there isn't a bias & jealousy out there. I recall the frustration in Geno's body language when she made outlandish calls against him. She is pathetic, but not alone out there. Naturally people want to see top team's upset, but call a fair game! She was dumped by the NBA years ago.
Unfortunately she is not alone. If we happen to go down, let it be in fair and balanced manner.
We are a fine bunch & deserve it. The greatness of Geno, et al is a fact...what he has accomplished is beyond extroadinary. Just see what the committee's come up with. Undeserved! It will be exciting & tough...let's go girls! As one of the popular posters on the BY says....let's make UConn bad for basketball â
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brooklyn nine-nine charles boyle GIF by Fox TV

BYer should be very happy to see Dee as the ref in a UCONN NCAA tournament game because that probably means UCONN has advanced to a pretty meaningful game.
 
Mississippi State has more reason to dislike her.

They should have beaten Notre Dame for the title in 2018 for a lot of reasons. Kantner was one of them.

Tied at 58, time out, 40 seconds left, Miss State ball. Notre Dame has committed five fouls so Miss State is in the bonus. They get it to McGowan in the low post and she misses a bunny at point blank range. Notre Dame rebounds, does not call time out. Mabrey`s pass is tipped and intercepted, and Morgan William heads up court with the ball. She sees a teammate, not sure who, who is slightly ahead of the field.

With about five seconds remaining, a frustrated Mabrey crashes into her at half court just as she starts to pass and absolutely levels her. Shockingly, no call. Kantner is also at half court, no more than fifteen feet away. No way she could - well, maybe should - have missed that.

The pass is understandably weak, Notre Dame intercepts, a foul on McGowan stops the clock, and we all know the rest.
 
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Kantner was one of the first 2 women referees in the NBA from 1997 to 2002. The fact that she was terminated by the NBA in 2002 for "not making sufficient growth" in her professional development speaks volumes of her competence. She was Supervisor for WNBA referees prior to her stint in the NBA. A classic example of the Peter Principal. I agree she is not a quality referee, and should not be working high level college games.
 
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chrissaran said:
Dee Kantner is one of the better refs in women's college basketball. Perfect, no, but then no ref is.
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If the coaches themselves didn't consider her one of the best refs in D1 WCBB, she would not be assigned to high-profile games. Periodt.

I see that people are preparing their ready-made excuses. So that way if we lose, it's because (a) the dang refs; (b) our dang conference; or (c) both (a) and (b).
 
da60 said:
With the tournaments upcoming I shudder to think that our UConn girls will wind up with a Dee Kantner as a ref. Most of us BY'ers know where I am coming from. Please don't try to convince me that there isn't a bias & jealousy out there. I recall the frustration in Geno's body language when she made outlandish calls against him. She is pathetic, but not alone out there. Naturally people want to see top team's upset, but call a fair game! She was dumped by the NBA years ago.
Unfortunately she is not alone. If we happen to go down, let it be in fair and balanced manner.
We are a fine bunch & deserve it. The greatness of Geno, et al is a fact...what he has accomplished is beyond extroadinary. Just see what the committee's come up with. Undeserved! It will be exciting & tough...let's go girls! As one of the popular posters on the BY says....let's make UConn bad for basketball â
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I am not a fan of Dee Kantner and have posted as much here on the BY in many, many threads and been very critical of her. In hindsight, most were probably not fair to her. IMO, she will make at least 1 call per game in which see is overly demonstrative, almost to the point of showboating, again IMO. That just rubs me the wrong way for no reason.
However, it never occurred to me to call her "pathetic" or anyone else for that matter.
But I am pretty sure, based upon past Final Fours, that she will be one of the nine referees selected for the Final Four, as mentioned by others.
 
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This topic is so terminally boring, and so much more worthy of a Notre Dame forum than one of ours. Refs are a necessary part of the game. Are they perfect? Is the Pope Jewish? Yes, bad calls of a highly subjective nature will be made. Whatever blown calls there are affect an ultimate win or loss very insignificantly when compared to missed shots, defensive lapses, failure to box out...one could go on and on. Unless a bias can be proven, the whole subject constitutes a massive waste of breath!
 
I kind of find it weird that many of the famous missed calls by Dee is when a team is playing ND. The tripping of Crystal Dangerfield, the body slam on Morgan William, the undercutting of CW under the basket, plus more and they were all against ND.
 
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Bigpetunia said:
This topic is so terminally boring, and so much more worthy of a Notre Dame forum than one of ours. Refs are a necessary part of the game. Are they perfect? Is the Pope Jewish? Yes, bad calls of a highly subjective nature will be made. Whatever blown calls there are affect an ultimate win or loss very insignificantly when compared to missed shots, defensive lapses, failure to box out...one could go on and on. Unless a bias can be proven, the whole subject constitutes a massive waste of breath!
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unless your name is Angel Hernandez as an umpire in MLB.
 
Can we talk about Debbie Antonelli next? As she wrapped up coverage of the game before last night's NCAA Top 16 reveal, she questioned numerous times UConn's right to be overall top seed. She appeared to be hoping they were not #1 overall. I won't say it's not a discussion worth having, but when you look at it in the context of her complete body of Husky-Hating work, you can smell the bias.
 
I am not a fan of any women's ref (or any men's ref either) but she doesn't strike me as worse than others. She has certainly reffed a lot of Uconn wins and I don't think I have ever blamed her for a Uconn loss. It is what it is and everyone has to deal with average and poor refs.
 
Antonelli's big thing is expanding women's basketball appeal, so she generally wants parity above all else and that can sound pretty anti-Uconn at times. However, I have heard her praise Geno and the Uconn program and Uconn players to the skies as well. She has been extremely complementary, she just wants more challengers and likes building up other programs.
 
I actually think Dee is pretty good as a ref in D1 WCBB with the one problem of her wanting to always insert herself into the game and make it known she saw something we all missed. She generally grades out as a better ref according to the metrics the NCAA uses (along with various league/coaches input) which is why she refs more important games during the NCAAT. I don't necessarily it's a bias against Connecticut but as we are in more "big games" than other teams we seem to see her inject herself into the game-sometimes in our favor and sometimes not so much...
 
A few points I must make. Deb AntonellI and her ACC/ NC St. bias are indeed tough to listen to, but no more so than the horrendous, inane drivel spouted continually by “National Championship winning coach” Carolyn Peck. I bet that‘ll be on her tombstone. Angel Hernandez is by FAR the WORST official in ANY sport, men or women. How he is able to keep is job is very mysterious. And I’ll admit Dee has some shaky moments, but I don’t believe they stem from bias (blindness perhaps) but she is WAAAAAY better than the infamous Sally Bell who made her hatred for Geno quite obvious anytime she did a UConn game.
 
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When she ref’d in the NBA, she annually graded out among the league’s worst refs. Every single year. Wanting women refs, they did everything under the sun to improve her abilities. They failed. She is still bad at her job.
 
Wait, you do get there are different levels of what the NBA considers and what the NCAA considers right? Just like just because you were a great college basketball player does not make you a great NBA or WNBA player. Refs can be good in one league but not good in another based on what the "league's nuances are". Heck, I don't see half the stuff the NBA calls vs. what they don't call. In college, at least I understand and see many of the same things.

So while Dee was not a good NBA ref, I do think she's been a good college ref. The NCAA and Conference Tournaments do not have lower rated refs do their elite games...so it they put in in those games, they have to have reason supporting it.
 
Adriacus said:
When she ref’d in the NBA, she annually graded out among the league’s worst refs. Every single year. Wanting women refs, they did everything under the sun to improve her abilities. They failed. She is still bad at her job.
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How many other WCBB refs were even given the chance to work in the NBA?
 
DefenseBB said:
Wait, you do get there are different levels of what the NBA considers and what the NCAA considers right? Just like just because you were a great college basketball player does not make you a great NBA or WNBA player. Refs can be good in one league but not good in another based on what the "league's nuances are". Heck, I don't see half the stuff the NBA calls vs. what they don't call. In college, at least I understand and see many of the same things.

So while Dee was not a good NBA ref, I do think she's been a good college ref. The NCAA and Conference Tournaments do not have lower rated refs do their elite games...so it they put in in those games, they have to have reason supporting it.
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Did I say that the level of the game is the same? No.

Do both jobs involve similar skill sets? Yes.

The fact that she was fired from the NBA for habitually being rated among the worst refs is not “so remotely detached a concept” as to be irrelevant. If you want direct comps, they don’t exist since there is only one women’s collegiate option. Geez.
 
Hmm...Anyone else remember Sally Bell, now retired? She made some atrocious calls (and non-calls) against the Huskies. Along with a lot of other fans I was convinced that she was hopelessly biased against us, until I found out by reading the Volnation (or maybe it was the Summitt: it was a while back) that UT fans hated her and were convinced that she was totally anti-UT. It`s all in how you look at it. Sally is now in the Women´s BBall Hall of Fame. Now June Corteau, she is another matter entirely!!
 
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Adriacus said:
7 total.

5 still in NBA.
Violet Palmer retired after about 20 years in NBA due to knee problems.
Dee Kantner fired for cause.

Speaks volumes.
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And I repeat: if the coaches didn't think she was one of the best available, we wouldn't see her in high-level games.

Perhaps your compelling arguments should be sent to all Division I coaches so as to convince them to change their minds.
 
Plebe said:
And I repeat: if the coaches didn't think she was one of the best available, we wouldn't see her in high-level games.

Perhaps your compelling arguments should be sent to all Division I coaches so as to convince them to change their minds.
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I may be wrong, but I think I remember that women's refs get to choose their regular-season games based on a seniority system. Since Dee is one of the longest-serving refs, she can choose the big-time games. Like I said, I can't document this right now, but I believe I remember reading that was the system.
 
FairView said:
I may be wrong, but I think I remember that women's refs get to choose their regular-season games based on a seniority system. Since Dee is one of the longest-serving refs, she can choose the big-time games. Like I said, I can't document this right now, but I believe I remember reading that was the system.
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Never in my life have I heard of such a system being used in any serious sports organization, and I would be shocked if this were ever true.

Every conference has a "coordinator of officials" who does all the assigning for the regular season and conference tournament. The NCAA D-1 WBB committee, in conjunction with the national coordinator of officials (last I checked this was June Courteau (sp?)), does the assigning for the tournament. I'm nearly certain it's the same in WBB as in volleyball, where, much like the teams themselves, the officials "advance" to work in the following round on the basis of performance evaluations in the tournament.
 
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Plebe said:
Never in my life have I heard of such a system being used in any serious sports organization, and I would be shocked if this were ever true.

Every conference has a "coordinator of officials" who does all the assigning for the regular season and conference tournament. The NCAA D-1 WBB committee, in conjunction with the national coordinator of officials (last I checked this was June Courteau (sp?)), does the assigning for the tournament. I'm nearly certain it's the same in WBB as in volleyball, where, much like the teams themselves, the officials "advance" to work in the following round on the basis of performance evaluations in the tournament.
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I do remember Geno saying that after every game, the coaches fill out a questionnaire on the referee performance.
 
Kantner was the ref who watched Ogunbowale hit Dangerfield as they went down court and did nothing. It happened right beside her and it was her job to be watching the backcourt action at that time. I have no comment on her ability or if she has any bias toward UConn.
 
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