Dee Kantner as a ref... | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Dee Kantner as a ref...

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FairView said:
Can we talk about Debbie Antonelli next? As she wrapped up coverage of the game before last night's NCAA Top 16 reveal, she questioned numerous times UConn's right to be overall top seed. She appeared to be hoping they were not #1 overall. I won't say it's not a discussion worth having, but when you look at it in the context of her complete body of Husky-Hating work, you can smell the bias.
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Did she bring up her "three W's"...where, why and when...if I'm not mistaken.
 
topogigio said:
The fact that she was terminated by the NBA in 2002 for "not making sufficient growth" in her professional development speaks volumes of her competence.
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I guess. Of course I believe she was the first woman to ref NBA games, so that may speak to her competence as well.
 
Two of my best friends are men's college refs and we have had numerous discussions about some of the inferior personnel that fill these roles in college basketball. For those who think UConn has had poor refereeing, its horrid in the 2nd level conferences. Many refs are brand new or near retirement. My friends are both neutral on Dee but do feel her quirks are predictable and therefore able to be prepared for prior to the game.
 
We can go back and forth about Dee Kantner. She has been around for a very long time, and as far as I can remember she has always worked the big games, especially at the final four. Has she maybe slowed down a little, possibly. IMHO, referees in WBB are the worst lot of referees in all of basketball. In other words, as a whole, they stink. I still think she is one of the best in our game, and we better wise up, because she will be at the final four. I really have to laugh when people get on her for being cut from the NBA. Golly gee, do you think it may be a little harder to work an NBA game over a womens college game. If the caliber of the other refs could match her ability, the womens game would be a hell of alot better.
 
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Completely unrelated to this topic except that it involves officiating, but I just had to comment/vent about this NBA rules-related foul call:



This foul was called on the defender, and after the call was challenged the original defensive foul was upheld. Apparently some quirk in the way the NBA rules are written means that calling a defensive foul there is "correct," which seems absurd to me.

Here's an even more blatant example: https://twitter.com/BadSportsRefs/status/1365023664018710534?s=20
 
donalddoowop said:
Kantner was the ref who watched Ogunbowale hit Dangerfield as they went down court and did nothing. It happened right beside her and it was her job to be watching the backcourt action at that time. I have no comment on her ability or if she has any bias toward UConn.
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Wasn't Dee the ref. who officiated the 95' UCONN vs Tenn. Final? ;)
 
eebmg said:
I do remember Geno saying that after every game, the coaches fill out a questionnaire on the referee performance.
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The coach questionnaires are indeed reviewed by the committee as part of their evaluation process.

... assuming they still do them. I know a bit more about the officiating side of things in volleyball: Several years ago I heard (at a presentation by an NCAA authority) that the WVB committee had at some point discontinued the postgame coach questionnaires during NCAAT because the feedback was so blatantly influenced by whether the coach's team had won or lost the game that it was deemed a worthless exercise.
 
Plebe said:
And I repeat: if the coaches didn't think she was one of the best available, we wouldn't see her in high-level games.

Perhaps your compelling arguments should be sent to all Division I coaches so as to convince them to change their minds.
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All of the NBA Coaches ranked her as the worst NBA referee 4 of her 5 seasons and next to last the other season.

You may dismiss their opinions. I don’t.

She isn’t a “one promotion too many” situation. She is a “bad at her job” situation.
 
FairView said:
I may be wrong, but I think I remember that women's refs get to choose their regular-season games based on a seniority system. Since Dee is one of the longest-serving refs, she can choose the big-time games. Like I said, I can't document this right now, but I believe I remember reading that was the system.
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Yes, wrong. They are assigned by the Coordinator of Officials for each conference. For years, in the oBE, it was Barbara Jacobs. She would make the rounds of games and evaluate the referees. I'm not an autograph collector, but years ago she signed the WBB rulebook that she was "editor" of for me. We also got a pretty frank discussion from her one time in the parking lot when the ref did not give Vivian a technical that she unquestionably deserved. She also attended 2 Rutgers fan club meetings years ago, one to explain things in general and one with Dennis DeMayo as he was invited to talk about refereeing. I missed it (traveling for business) but my wife was an officer of the club and found him entertaining and quite frank, both to the group and in a personal conversation.

What the refs do get to choose (if invited) is which conferences to work for. Some like Dee Kantner work for all the big conferences (well, not the PAC) and select smaller conferences. You work yourself up, getting good reviews and evaluations, from smaller to larger conferences. Some refs in the PAC may also work the Big West or the West Coast Conference, etc. and some actually do Division II or Division III games because there just isn't enough work to go around.

Some Refs also run camps - among those who did at one time are Scott Yarborough who works the SEC in particular and Bob Scofield who works the PAC and the Big Sky, in particular. He actually lives where I do, in Tucson, so there have been articles about him from time to time in the local paper.
 
Adriacus said:
All of the NBA Coaches ranked her as the worst NBA referee 4 of her 5 seasons and next to last the other season.

You may dismiss their opinions. I don’t.

She isn’t a “one promotion too many” situation. She is a “bad at her job” situation.
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Let's bring back Sally Bell.
 
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HopJim said:
Two of my best friends are men's college refs and we have had numerous discussions about some of the inferior personnel that fill these roles in college basketball. For those who think UConn has had poor refereeing, its horrid in the 2nd level conferences. Many refs are brand new or near retirement. My friends are both neutral on Dee but do feel her quirks are predictable and therefore able to be prepared for prior to the game.
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Good point about quirks. Dee has always been very demonstrative (among other things). Bryan Enterline makes anticipatory calls. The retired Bill Titus was a bad ref for Rutgers because he particularly called contact fouls that not all refs call, because that was his interpretation of the rules. The lack of consistency is the worst.

Refs like Dee can be both good and bad (she was generally good for a Rutgers). Not biased, just her interpretation of the rules "worked" with the Rutgers style.
 
Adriacus said:
All of the NBA Coaches ranked her as the worst NBA referee 4 of her 5 seasons and next to last the other season.

You may dismiss their opinions. I don’t.

She isn’t a “one promotion too many” situation. She is a “bad at her job” situation.
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Wow, you seem to know all about it.

Please remind me, since I seem to have forgotten, in which conferences you have served as coordinator of officials?

Or perhaps you were or are a Division I coach ... of which team, again?
 
Urshurak said:
Admins, time to lock this one up.......
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Even though I commented in this thread, I agree with you. And I only posted because the OP referred to her as "pathetic", which seems kinda against the mods rules.
Should I have reported the OP? Hmm.
 
Oh, cool! I get to post some of the articles I wrote years back about officiating.

Making the Calls: The World of Referees - '08​

fraser61.wordpress.com

Making the Calls: The World of Referees

There’s little doubt Title IX and the evolution of the female athlete have changed how women’s basketball is played, coached and marketed. But the impact on those who officiate the game…
fraser61.wordpress.com fraser61.wordpress.com

Earning Their Stripes: Officials In Training – '07​

fraser61.wordpress.com

Earning Their Stripes: Officials In Training – October 2007

Currently Supervisor of Officials for the WNBA, Dee Kantner began officiating in 1982 and is acknowledged as one of the top Division I referees. A few years ago Kantner said this about being a wome…
fraser61.wordpress.com fraser61.wordpress.com

OFFICIATING UNDER REVIEW: Coaches, Conferences and the NCAA Working to Collaborate, '09​

fraser61.wordpress.com

OFFICIATING UNDER REVIEW: Coaches, Conferences and the NCAA Working to Collaborate

It goes without saying that any coach interested in how officials are evaluated by the NCAA regional advisors or during the NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Championship should read the very clea…
fraser61.wordpress.com fraser61.wordpress.com

Coaches and Officials: Reaching Across the Divide – '06​

fraser61.wordpress.com

Coaches and Officials: Reaching Across the Divide – July 2006

Gamesmanship. For some, it’s as much a part of the game as the squeak of basketball shoes. Getting that intangible advantage can be reflected in how a coach works the media, a player, the other coa…
fraser61.wordpress.com fraser61.wordpress.com
 
Huskee11 said:
Mississippi State has more reason to dislike her.

They should have beaten Notre Dame for the title in 2018 for a lot of reasons. Kantner was one of them.

Tied at 58, time out, 40 seconds left, Miss State ball. Notre Dame has committed five fouls so Miss State is in the bonus. They get it to McGowan in the low post and she misses a bunny at point blank range. Notre Dame rebounds, does not call time out. Mabrey`s pass is tipped and intercepted, and Morgan William heads up court with the ball. She sees a teammate, not sure who, who is slightly ahead of the field.

With about five seconds remaining, a frustrated Mabrey crashes into her at half court just as she starts to pass and absolutely levels her. Shockingly, no call. Kantner is also at half court, no more than fifteen feet away. No way she could - well, maybe should - have missed that.

The pass is understandably weak, Notre Dame intercepts, a foul on McGowan stops the clock, and we all know the rest.
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The 3 final four games were officiating disasters, embarrassing for women's basketball.
 
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Big game refereeing in the women's college game is poor, basically because they do not let the players play. Too many fouls called.
 
VidNick said:
Big game refereeing in the women's college game is poor, basically because they do not let the players play. Too many fouls called.
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Too many inconsistent fouls called, touch fouls called on the perimeter where no advantage is gained. Traveling where none happens, then ignored when blatant, various wildly from game to game.
Last night a very tough physical game, 9 fouls called each team.
 
Sorry; BUT, that is a rubbish analysis and comment...

Kanter is one of the best Refs in the Women's game. And, rightfully gets most of the big games.

As to her being fired by the NBA. Each year nba refs are evaluated twice (mid and end) and she was ranked lowest in her 5 years. Well what a surprise - the NBA a male dominated game all around and I would be shocked if she was ranked above any of the men in the panel.

Sooooo - rubbish....
 
FairView said:
I may be wrong, but I think I remember that women's refs get to choose their regular-season games based on a seniority system. Since Dee is one of the longest-serving refs, she can choose the big-time games. Like I said, I can't document this right now, but I believe I remember reading that was the system.
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That is absolutely NOT the system. Refs can choose to decline assignments but they don't get to choose them.
 
stamfordhusky said:
That is absolutely NOT the system. Refs can choose to decline assignments but they don't get to choose them.
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I absolutely understand that now. When I thought about it after people responded, I realized it really was a boneheaded thought. I was very embarrassed until I remembered this is The Boneyard. What better place for a boneheaded comment?!?!?!?
 
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Nick Pignatello said:
The 3 final four games were officiating disasters, embarrassing for women's basketball.
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The most truthful thing said in this thread. ND was gifted a championship and we were robbed of one. We were the best team that year, period. When we were robbed, MSU was the best team left. Then they were robbed. There is a common thread here but no one will speak of it. The data is there. There is no way to PROVE it isn't coincidental but any sane person can see that it isn't. You just have to be willing to see it.
 
Big Mick said:
Sorry; BUT, that is a rubbish analysis and comment...

Kanter is one of the best Refs in the Women's game. And, rightfully gets most of the big games.

As to her being fired by the NBA. Each year nba refs are evaluated twice (mid and end) and she was ranked lowest in her 5 years. Well what a surprise - the NBA a male dominated game all around and I would be shocked if she was ranked above any of the men in the panel.

Sooooo - rubbish....
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So, the NBA, who lives in fear of tarnishing its image, fired a female ref because of systemic sexism? Sure.
 
ScuderiaDiU said:
The most truthful thing said in this thread. ND was gifted a championship and we were robbed of one. We were the best team that year, period. When we were robbed, MSU was the best team left. Then they were robbed. There is a common thread here but no one will speak of it. The data is there. There is no way to PROVE it isn't coincidental but any sane person can see that it isn't. You just have to be willing to see it.
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Thank you, some said it on the air at the time, but were silenced.
 
Adriacus said:
When she ref’d in the NBA, she annually graded out among the league’s worst refs. Every single year. Wanting women refs, they did everything under the sun to improve her abilities. They failed. She is still bad at her job.
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Just curious how a NBA official would grade out if they actually enforced the rules of basketball?


 
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