Death. Taxes. Rothstein in Storrs for practice

[Stainmaster]

I would also add, you are probably correct about laying into the analyst. He gave us some good stuff to talk about and should be thanked for it. His observations were probably accurate. But I potentially disagree with some of his analysis. Of course he watched the practice and I didn't.

Rothstein is very frustrating for me - he has a good head on his shoulders, and at the core the analysis he offers is surprisingly insightful, which makes him worth following. But his shtick/tropes have turned him into a caricature of himself.

 

[Phorcys]

There are many very good posts in this thread.

But rather than choosing which are best, I am taking the easy way out by “liking” every one—except for Dove’s, of course, since he specifically forbade doing so.

Thankfully, the off-season is over.

The buzz is palpable.

 

[JimHurley]

We must be going 11 deep. Gibbs, Adams, Cassell at guard. Calhoun, Purvis, and Hamilton at G/F. Then Nolan, Enoch, Facey, Brimah, and Miller at F/C.

 

[BlueMAB]

Makes sense, but I don't think you are describing a UCONN guard. I think you are describing some sort of ball control guy. To me a UCONN ball handler strives to be able to do all things. They shoot, they pass, they run the team, they win the game at the buzzer. We aren't training these guys to be one dimensional low turnover guys. We are teaching them to dominate the game. We are reaching for greatness with all the players...in particular, all the players who handle the ball. When they are great individually we will mold them into a team. Run plays, set screens, etc.... My statements don't just apply to Gibbs, they apply to anyone with ball handling ability. So in my opinion (whatever that is worth) the ball hogging comes first. The team game comes second....that may sound backwards to some. You do this by letting your guys drive. Shoot. Attack. If you start with the team game too soon they will never develop the needed individual game.

A few things:

You just described everything Taliek Brown isn't, and we won a national championship with him.

Thank God you aren't running the team. The "individual game" being more important than the "team game" doesn't "sound" backwards. It "IS" backwards. We've won our last two championships by having a better team than the greater group of individuals in Kentucky uniforms.

There's nothing wrong with driving, as long as it doesn't end in a bad shot against bigger guys, when the better option is to kick it out to the shooters (Gibbs should be the one catching and shooting the three in that scenario by the way).

You don't have to sacrifice the team game to attack, drive, and shoot. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any idea how to mold a team, but step one is most certainly not telling your primary ball handlers to ignore their teammates and do what they can to get their shot off.

That's not how Bazz played, that's not how Kemba played. They took over games when they had to, not because they were trying to be individually great. More often than not, they tried to get their teammates going first, knowing they can create a shot on their own if/when forced to.

You basically couldn't be more wrong.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I'm not a real believer in the 10 deep thing. I mean, some (if not most) of our opponents are going to play their stars 35+ minutes. Which means we most likely will need to do the same thing. Unless our 2nd tier guys are really that good. I don't think that's the case. Our stars are going to have to match their stars. Which means 3 or 4 guys are going to play a ton. A few will split time (most likely Brimah and a coll

A few things:

You just described everything Taliek Brown isn't, and we won a national championship with him.

Thank God you aren't running the team. The "individual game" being more important than the "team game" doesn't "sound" backwards. It "IS" backwards. We've won our last two championships by having a better team than the greater group of individuals in Kentucky uniforms.

There's nothing wrong with driving, as long as it doesn't end in a bad shot against bigger guys, when the better option is to kick it out to the shooters (Gibbs should be the one catching and shooting the three in that scenario by the way).

You don't have to sacrifice the team game to attack, drive, and shoot. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any idea how to mold a team, but step one is most certainly not telling your primary ball handlers to ignore their teammates and do what they can to get their shot off.

That's not how Bazz played, that's not how Kemba played. They took over games when they had to, not because they were trying to be individually great. More often than not, they tried to get their teammates going first, knowing they can create a shot on their own if/when forced to.

You basically couldn't be more wrong.

I was thinking about commenting on Taliek, because he is the exception for sure. But Khalid, Kemba, Bazz, Boat, AJ Price, Marcus Williams, Ben Gordon, Chris Smith...none of those guys were strictly ball control guards. In fact, I would describe Gordon as careless with the ball. So we've had one guy who's a ball control guy and pretty much every other good guard we've had is so much more.

As far as the other stuff is concerned, I'm confident in saying that we've won all of our championships on the backs of dominating individual ability. I'm not suggesting we don't play a team game, because that's not true either. But the offense starts with a player who can beat the man guarding him. The team game builds from there. I have no problem watching a player work on those individual skills. I don't have a problem watching it in a game..let alone in the first 2 weeks of practice.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I guess Tate was a pretty decent ball control guy as well. Before that i was too young to remember.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm not a real believer in the 10 deep thing. I mean, some (if not most) of our opponents are going to play their stars 35+ minutes. Which means we most likely will need to do the same thing. Unless our 2nd tier guys are really that good. I don't think that's the case. Our stars are going to have to match their stars. Which means 3 or 4 guys are going to play a ton. A few will split time (most likely Brimah and a coll

I was thinking about commenting on Taliek, because he is the exception for sure. But Khalid, Kemba, Bazz, Boat, AJ Price, Marcus Williams, Ben Gordon, Chris Smith...none of those guys were strictly ball control guards. In fact, I would describe Gordon as careless with the ball. So we've had one guy who's a ball control guy and pretty much every other good guard we've had is so much more.

As far as the other stuff is concerned, I'm confident in saying that we've won all of our championships on the backs of dominating individual ability. I'm not suggesting we don't play a team game, because that's not true either. But the offense starts with a player who can beat the man guarding him. The team game builds from there. I have no problem watching a player work on those individual skills. I don't have a problem watching it in a game..let alone in the first 2 weeks of practice.

Rothstein didn't suggest Gibbs be a "strictly ball control guy". He said he should shoot less. I think it's more reasonable to assume he made that comment based on the talent out there with him, rather than your strawman idea that he wants Gibbs (a 44% three point shooter) to only set up the offense, rather than be a part of it.

 

[MexicoHusky]

You are correct, i probably read into the analysts statement. Afterall, he simply said Gibbs needs to shoot less. And i didn't see what the analyst saw. But i stand by my statements about letting ball handlers develop their individual skills through ball hogging and forcing things. Especially early in the season. I'm not sure how else a Kemba or a Bazz or a Khalid is taught the type of individual skills that have won us so many big games.

 

[Stainmaster]

You are correct, i probably read into the analysts statement. Afterall, he simply said Gibbs needs to shoot less. And i didn't see what the analyst saw. But i stand by my statements about letting ball handlers develop their individual skills through ball hogging and forcing things. Especially early in the season. I'm not sure how else a Kemba or a Bazz or a Khalid is taught the type of individual skills that have won us so many big games.

They aren't taught. They're born. We've just been lucky that our coaching staff has an eye for those kinds of players and makes them a priority. And I don't want anyone ball-hogging or forcing things if it's to the detriment of the team, especially since we'll have so many offensive weapons.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I believe they are taught. And it's that process that seperates our guards vs so many others when the game gets tight.

 

[BlueMAB]

But i stand by my statements about letting ball handlers develop their individual skills through ball hogging and forcing things. Especially early in the season. I'm not sure how else a Kemba or a Bazz or a Khalid is taught the type of individual skills that have won us so many big games.

By spending thousands of hours shooting hundreds of thousands of shots....

You can't teach that. You sure as hell don't learn it by ball hogging, forcing shots, and playing individual basketball "early in the season".

 

[OkaForPrez]

Are we going 10-11 deep this year?

Not many had Enoch getting big minutes this year but with the comments by Ollie and Rothstein it appears he will be a part of the rotation. Add him to DHam, Purvis, Brimah, Gibbs, Miller, Adams and that's 7. Cassell, Calhoun, Nolan, and Facey have all played minutes and have experience and look to push for time. Unlikely there will be enough time to go around for all of them. Be fascinating to see what the core rotation will be.

Got to say, with JR's comments I'm definitely second guessing how strongly I advocated Phil over Enoch a few days ago, but that would mean he's way ahead of schedule and obviously that's a great thing. So quasi apologies to my friend who suggested Enoch would be ahead of Phil in the rotation. It's certsinly a bit more interesting after that tweet.

 

[MexicoHusky]

By spending thousands of hours shooting hundreds of thousands of shots....

You can't teach that. You sure as hell don't learn it by ball hogging, forcing shots, and playing individual basketball "early in the season".

If i used slightly different language would my point be more palatable? For instance, if i said uconn gives their ball handlers lots of freedom to make plays. Does that sound better?

 

[BlueMAB]

If i used slightly different language would my point be more palatable? For instance, if i said uconn gives their ball handlers lots of freedom to make plays. Does that sound better?

That's not semantics. That's a different argument.

Making a play =/= making a shot. (It can, of course mean just that, but it can also mean getting the ball to the open man who makes the shot) Brimah didn't "make plays" when he scored 40 on UCF. He made about 18 alley-oops where all he had to do was dunk the ball. The guards were making those plays, but they weren't taking shots.

Yes we want our guards to have freedom to make plays. That's not saying the same thing as "ball hogging". If Gibbs is ball hogging, then Purvis (who could average 18-20/game this year) isn't getting touches. Hamilton, a potential triple double, isn't getting the shots he deserves or creating the assists for others we know he can create.

Gibbs should be able to create off the dribble, but he shouldn't force bad shots, that benefits nobody. And he should never be afraid to catch and shoot an open three, but he shouldn't be looking for his shot to the detriment of the other guys on the court who have shown they are equally deserving of the freedom to create.

 

[CL82]

He's not wrong, we have enough weapons where if Gibbs is taking bad shots consitantly it will be a deterrent.

Mmm, is okay if Gibbs takes good shots? I think I'd be okay with that.

 

[MexicoHusky]

That's not semantics. That's a different argument.

Making a play =/= making a shot. (It can, of course mean just that, but it can also mean getting the ball to the open man who makes the shot) Brimah didn't "make plays" when he scored 40 on UCF. He made about 18 alley-oops where all he had to do was dunk the ball. The guards were making those plays, but they weren't taking shots.

Yes we want our guards to have freedom to make plays. That's not saying the same thing as "ball hogging". If Gibbs is ball hogging, then Purvis (who could average 18-20/game this year) isn't getting touches. Hamilton, a potential triple double, isn't getting the shots he deserves or creating the assists for others we know he can create.

Gibbs should be able to create off the dribble, but he shouldn't force bad shots, that benefits nobody. And he should never be afraid to catch and shoot an open three, but he shouldn't be looking for his shot to the detriment of the other guys on the court who have shown they are equally deserving of the freedom to create.

I really don't think our arguments are all that different.

 

[MexicoHusky]

We both want our ball handlers to be clutch down the stretch. I think they need opportunity to perfect this skill. I think this is done by giving them the freedom to do so earlier in the season. I think UCONN does this better than most. I call this allowing players to ball hog. Experiment a little. That's it.

 

[intlzncster]

Got to say, with JR's comments I'm definitely second guessing how strongly I advocated Phil over Enoch a few days ago, but that would mean he's way ahead of schedule and obviously that's a great thing. So quasi apologies to my friend who suggested Enoch would be ahead of Phil in the rotation. It's certsinly a bit more interesting after that tweet.

Phil will get the nod. With so many new pieces, I'm betting Ollie goes with some consistency. Old reliables so to speak. You also don't want to extrapolate one tweet from Rothstein into something it's not.

Note: I was happy to hear this about Enoch.

 

[intlzncster]

Actually, I want Gibbs taking more threes than anyone else on the team. Given the stats, he's likely our best three point shooter. Fire away son!

 

[johnhuskies95]

Rothstein also predicted that Cassell would start over Purvis last year. I like Enoch a lot, but I think Phil will play more than him.

 

[mauconnfan]

I comment because the game is changing. And the "experts" don't seem to notice. Instead they resort to some cookie-cutter team where the PG is steady, rarely shoots and never turns the ball over. Again, that can certainly work. But like I said before. The best players learn their craft through shooting, driving into double teams, making bad passes...in short, making mistakes and trying stuff. I'm not saying Gibbs will ever get to the point where he controls/dominates a game...but if he has that ability...shooting is how he would do it.

If he shoots 43-45% from 3 he's not going to be taking bad shots ever. NDHusky is right. Not sure there's a concern here at all, he's a creative "shoot first" guy who can pass the ball too. He will adjust according to the talent around him based on listening to him. I think with the Hall and their issues he chucked up some bad shots because he had to. But he's also a "win first" guy not worried about his stats but more about W's that's why he came here. We're in dependable hands with no worries everyone relax.

 

[Kitaman]

Don't get me wrong, I love the reports. I am so excited but I must stay level headed and grounded:

 

[aceboon]

 

[jibsey]

This is going to be really interesting because KO is known to be loyal, and if Enoch is that talented, can he push Nolan and Facey off the floor, or is this a Rothstein hype? Miller is there like a rock. Don't want to go by the early cupcake games.

 

[Palatine]

If Gibbs shoots 42% from the arc, then I wouldn't mind him get a lot of shots.

 

[aceboon]

This is going to be really interesting because KO is known to be loyal, and if Enoch is that talented, can he push Nolan and Facey off the floor, or is this a Rothstein hype? Miller is there like a rock. Don't want to go by the early cupcake games.

KO is known for playing whoever is the best option, not being loyal to whoever has more years or exeperience within the program. You're still hung up on this Lubin vs Nolan issue when it was plain as day why Nolan played more and KO has stated that in the media, Nolan knows where to be on defense and he set the best screens of the available bigs last year. If Enoch proves to be better than Nolan, KO will play him more, just like he played Nolan and Brimah more than Olander in 13-14, and Kromah and then TSam down the strech of 13-14 more than Omar.

 

[SellersElbow]

We must be going 11 deep. Gibbs, Adams, Cassell at guard. Calhoun, Purvis, and Hamilton at G/F. Then Nolan, Enoch, Facey, Brimah, and Miller at F/C.

I am fine with talk of going 10-11 deep if our personnel dictates it, as long as no one mentions the pl-&*%!-toon word.

 

[SellersElbow]

Not many had Enoch getting big minutes this year but with the comments by Ollie and Rothstein it appears he will be a part of the rotation.

I remember the last time we had a 6'10" freshman power forward from CT get more minutes than originally expected. That season was fun.

 

[Inyatkin]

There have been a lot more preseason predictions of our team going 10-11 deep over the years than actual occurrences. It's not likely this year, either.

 

[intlzncster]

KO is known for playing whoever is the best option, not being loyal to whoever has more years or exeperience within the program. You're still hung up on this Lubin vs Nolan issue when it was plain as day why Nolan played more and KO has stated that in the media, Nolan knows where to be on defense and he set the best screens of the available bigs last year. If Enoch proves to be better than Nolan, KO will play him more, just like he played Nolan and Brimah more than Olander in 13-14, and Kromah and then TSam down the strech of 13-14 more than Omar.

I certainly don't know, and I doubt anyone else does, but I'm betting this happens again this year. How many bigs come in polished, understanding both offensive and defensive principles at the college level. Especially a kid as reportedly raw basketball wise as Enoch. jmo