D1 Council Endorses Unlimited Transfers

[huskymedic]

Obviously bigger scholarship pools than other sports but these are football stats w/ a month to go - (Portal resets for 8/1/22):

 

[McLovin]

Bigger scholarship pools than other sports but these are football stats w/ a month to go - (Portal resets for 8/1/22):

So ~ 5% of the total FBS players from last year are without a scholarship?

That’s probably the amount of kids in FBS who aren’t FBS level players.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

So ~ 5% of the total FBS players from last year are without a scholarship?

That’s probably the amount of kids in FBS who aren’t FBS level players.

I read that as almost 20% P5 didn't, and 39% G5 didnt. I may be reading it wrong.

One of us is. Apologies if it's me

 

[McLovin]

I read that as almost 20% P5 didn't, and 39% G5 didnt. I may be reading that wrong.

There were 11,000+ FBS student athletes last year, of those, 525 currently do not have one / are in the portal.

Edit: when the tweet mentioned 525 from FCS, I assumed he meant FBS because he immediately referenced P/G 5 numbers after that.

Edit 2: FCS might actually be referencing FCS kids trying to move up a level, but even so, the FBS kids are also right around 525 total.

 

[huskymedic]

Another evolving dynamic to consider across all college sports: Transfer portal eating away at scholarships for high school players

 

[BlueMAB]

OK, sure. But it's insane to think that a large % of them will have willingly given up a college scholarship. Logically the much higher percentage will have been forced out.

No, it's not insane to think that a large # of kids assumed they'd be given a similar (at worst) opportunity elsewhere and overplayed their hands given an environment where kids are being given a free year of eligibity.

It's insane to imply that most of the kids in the portal had their scholarships non-renewed. Coaches have to keep relationships, and there's a wide gap between "you will not have a scholarship next year" and "we will honor your scholarship, but we think you're better off finding a new school."

And we have no clue how many were going to transfer without feedback/input from their staff.

And even you agree (based on your post) that some kids will get pushed out. We can argue the percentage, but that was the point I was making. It will happen. I think it will happen far more often than you, but we agree it will happen.

See above. Pushed out =/= encouraged to seek other opportunities. Also, players had their scholarships non-renewed in the past. Happens when new coaches take over a football program. Less so in basketball. But it was already something coaches could do.

And sure, exhausting the CV eligibility will help, but it will still happen (as you said above), which is my point. I just think it will happen more than you do.

We agree it will happen. Difference is you're assuming to know the reason behind most of the transfers (or at least a "huge" amount) without having any evidence.

 

[McLovin]

Another evolving dynamic to consider across all college sports: Transfer portal eating away at scholarships for high school players

There are a finite amount of scholarships each year. Players who move up / down don’t remove opportunity for incoming freshmen. The kids who leave FBS via graduation / moving down a level or 2 are filled by freshmen. Exactly like it has always been done before.

Just because the P5 is offering less scholarships to freshmen (as this article suggest), doesn’t mean there are less FBS scholarships to go around.

None of this transfer stuff is taking away rightfully earned spots from anyone. It just simply lubes the system to make it work more fluidly.

The current arbitrary waiver process has clearly only benefited the big schools and their incoming transfers. Cutting that out will give everyone a more even playing field with the transfer process.

 

[Going4Natty]

Where is your evidence of this?

It will be tough to get evidence of something that isn't even official yet. but I think it is logical that as transfers proliferate, there will be as many transfers down as up. Coaches at a smaller program will be able to upgrade players who were recruited at a higher level and also add high school freshmen. Hence the small playing time players will get squeezed off their scholarships by down transfers and potentially better high school recruits.

 

[CL82]

Both of these are good points. No doubt some kids will be left out.

Unfortunately, if it becomes apparent after a year or 2 that a kid is not good enough to play D1 basketball, I don’t know that they should be grandfathered an athletic scholarship “just because”.

Would be great if the NCAA put in some sort of safety net for that. Like if a kid is in the portal and isn’t picked up by X date, as long as their GPA is over 3.XX, the school they were at is required to grant them an academic scholarship to complete their studies.

That way every student in good academic standing can at least make the choice of playing down (D2/3) with potentially less financial aid or continuing their education for free. Also would hold the schools accountable for recruiting over players / forcing out transfers.

That’s kind of the way things are now. The number of kids who are “forced out“ is pretty small. What the portal does is encourages kids to forfeit their scholarship. Hey, everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side and “surely another coach would see the inherent value in me if I left”. By the time it’s August and they’re stuck in the portal without an offer it’s too late they’ve given up their scholarship. We are seeing that happen in increasing numbers.

That said, I can’t come up with a reasonable basis in which schools should have the option to drop kids but kids can’t leave schools, so the existing portal system and unlimited transfers seems like it’s on its way. I have a healthy skepticism about it, but I think our coaches are bright enough to take advantage of it.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

No, it's not insane to think that a large # of kids assumed they'd be given a similar (at worst) opportunity elsewhere and overplayed their hands given an environment where kids are being given a free year of eligibity.

It's insane to imply that most of the kids in the portal had their scholarships non-renewed. Coaches have to keep relationships, and there's a wide gap between "you will not have a scholarship next year" and "we will honor your scholarship, but we think you're better off finding a new school."

And we have no clue how many were going to transfer without feedback/input from their staff.

No, i'm not saying they will be pushed out by their coaches. I'm saying they will enter the portal, and not have anywhere to go when the music stops.

I definitely don't think coaches will boot many kids...that's recruiting/career suicide.

There just won't be a spot left for many players from players coming from schools below the P5 level. Recruiting, even transfer recruiting, is done long before the commitment.

 

[UconnU]

Transfer without penalty is already here. We just had 4 kids transfer out and brought in 4 transfers and we're all still here with this hobby.

I think we all realize it's now just pro sports with free agency and all the money and we continue on with the hobby. If the 2 mega conferences decide to ruin college basketball by destroying the tournament I'll find a new hobby, I think a lot of us will.

What if the 2 mega conferences create their own joint mega championship but also participate in the regular open tournament?

 

[gtcam]

How is that bad? What if that was your kid?

Would you want them stuck at URI because of some bogus transfer rules, or would you want him to have a shot to play big time CBB (and maybe have a shot at an NBA career)?

Or what if your kid was buried on the depth chart at UConn without a chance at playing time. Do you want them stuck there, or have the ability to go somewhere and use their eligibility actually playing?

Really benefits the student athletes, which is all that should really matter.

You are talking a rare or seldom situation vs how the portal is being used now and the dark side none of us know in the future

 

[cohenzone]

Since an athletes scholarship can not be renewed annually, an athlete should be able to transfer, annually. That just seems fair and reasonable.

That said, this announcement is de facto free agency which is going to change the face of college athletics as we understand it. If you, like me, enjoyed watching kids develop over four years, you may want to think about getting a new hobby because I doubt we will be seeing that very much anymore. People like to talk about how fans “root for the laundry”. Well, when transfer without penalty comes into being that is going to be the norm because kids are going to be moving all over the place.

Don’t get me wrong, as I said at the start, if schools can cancel the kids scholarship annually, it’s only fair that the kids should be able to do the same and move on to another institution. I just don’t like the impact it’s going to have on the sport.

On the bright side, I think this benefits Connecticut football considerably. We have P5 facilities and a P5 coach, coupled with name recognition. Decent players who might not consider us out of high school, but who are buried in the depth chart may well be willing to give us a look.

Fair, yes. But let’s stop calling this anything but what it is. A pretty ugly way for college sports to proceed. It really underscores the Seinfeld view that people root for laundry. A totally new definition of “program”. It’s more like just roster filling.

 

[Get a Job]

Another evolving dynamic to consider across all college sports: Transfer portal eating away at scholarships for high school players

Whoever wrote this article is really bad at math.

 

[BlueMAB]

No, i'm not saying they will be pushed out by their coaches. I'm saying they will enter the portal, and not have anywhere to go when the music stops.

I definitely don't think coaches will boot many kids...that's recruiting/career suicide.

There just won't be a spot left for many players from players coming from schools below the P5 level. Recruiting, even transfer recruiting, is done long before the commitment.

Then they aren't "losing" their scholarships.

They are giving them up with the hopes they get a better offer (however they define "better").

You don't "lose" what you voluntarily release.

If you quit your job before you have another one lined up, you didn't "lose" your job. You quit.

 

[BlueMAB]

It will be tough to get evidence of something that isn't even official yet. but I think it is logical that as transfers proliferate, there will be as many transfers down as up. Coaches at a smaller program will be able to upgrade players who were recruited at a higher level and also add high school freshmen. Hence the small playing time players will get squeezed off their scholarships by down transfers and potentially better high school recruits.

Again, that already happens.

 

[freescooter]

My takeaway is that if UConn is going to spend a ton on recruiting, might as well start going after one-and-done (to NBA) guys instead of one-and-done (to your competition).

Jay Wright was probably enjoying an adult beverage and chuckling after reading that.

I have a slightly different take, but same concept. Why bother recruiting a single high school kid at all? Build a team every year of proven commodities.

Another thought is we should just have a draft of players each year. Duke gets the first pick. Then the SEC winner, then Duke again, then the B10 champ, then UNC then Duke…

 

[freescooter]

In all seriousness, it will never happen, but it is really past time for universities to start acting like universities and either shut down these programs and start over or totally spin them off and collect annual royalties for using the school names and mascots and such. Reverse NIL if you will.

This is no longer college athletics. And spare me the everybody used to do it speches. They didn’t. To me the real culprits in this mess were the NBA with their 1-done rule originally put in place to protect older hanger on players, and the NCAA for not cracking down very quickly. And the NCAA for micro managing things Like dictating food choices and buying a kid a hot dog. Basically, when there are law firms specializing in NCAA rule books, it has gone way too far.

Finally there are still folks who play the game for the sake of the game. They play at places like Trinity and Wesleyan and Coast Guard and Southern Connecticut. The guys aren’t going to the NBA or the NFL, but they play well and hard.

 

[REB1094]

As someone who generally always supports the students over NCAA leadership, I like this in theory.

There's a million scenarios around what this means for NILs, parity, "fairness", etc...and I'm sure these will be addressed with time. But on the surface level, I don't see why students shouldn't be able to go play somewhere else if they want.

My biggest concern is if guys get bad advice from someone or get caught up in noise, leave their program, and can't find a new place to play. Not sure what the solution to that could be, but would hate to see players make a bad decision and then end up not being able to play anywhere. We have to remember that a lot of these players are teenagers and won't always make the wisest decisions.

 

[Waquoit]

My biggest concern is if guys get bad advice from someone or get caught up in noise, leave their program, and can't find a new place to play. Not sure what the solution to that could be, but would hate to see players make a bad decision and then end up not being able to play anywhere. We have to remember that a lot of these players are teenagers and won't always make the wisest decisions.

If that's the biggest concern, then approving this is a no-brainer. If you enter the portal and don't get an offer, I'm thinking your future isn't in hoop. It's sad maybe if a player makes a poor decision, it's not a tragedy. The old way, you have coaches like Martelli screwing players for no good reason.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

This is a very different point than:

"Really benefits the student athletes, which is all that should really matter."

And your next point (the continued scholarship) requires money coming from somewhere, and thats always tricky too.

Using the term Student Athlete and unlimited transfer as a benefit to the student athlete in the same sentence is Orwellian Doublespeak
If you ever transferred or had a kid thst trsnsferred than you almost automatically adding a year to get a degree . Multiple transfers will insure that kid will never get a degree.
The ones that benefit are the more desirable athletic programs at the expense of less desirable. Calling someone who transfers annually a student is a joke.. He is a quasi professional athlete.
Everyone knows it except the kid who was done a huge disservice.

 

[REB1094]

If that's the biggest concern, then approving this is a no-brainer. If you enter the portal and don't get an offer, I'm thinking your future isn't in hoop. It's sad maybe if a player makes a poor decision, it's not a tragedy. The old way, you have coaches like Martelli screwing players for no good reason.

You're right, but I don't think the players would see it that way. But that is a good point, if this is the biggest concern then we're in a good spot

 

[freescooter]

Using the term Student Athlete and unlimited transfer as a benefit to the student athlete in the same sentence is Orwellian Doublespeak
If you ever transferred or had a kid thst trsnsferred than you almost automatically adding a year to get a degree . Multiple transfers will insure that kid will never get a degree.
The ones that benefit are the more desirable athletic programs at the expense of less desirable. Calling someone who transfers annually a student is a joke.. He is a quasi professional athlete.
Everyone knows it except the kid who was done a huge disservice.

This is NOT about students. Not for a second. That was one Of the things the 1-year rule was supposed to insure…that the players considered the Impact on their academic careers. Academic considerations have essentially been taken off the table in the name of money. And for the record, very few basketball players who stay past their freshman year are NBA bound. The NBA drafts +-60 players Annually. There are about 4200 D1 hoop players. So you probably ain’t going to the league even if you are a star. Over the past dozen years, the almost all of the top 10 college players drafted have been freshmen. So if you have been there for 4 years, you probably ain’t going to the league. It’s possible of course, just not likely. If you want to travel, and learn a new language like Greek, Chinese, Russian, Norwegian, whatever they speak in Indonesia, and make $2-3000/month, that’s great. But you better have a backup plan. And after transferring 3 times in 4 years, it probably won’t be a college degree.

 

[Ports21]

I would absolutely be in favor of kids transferring if their coach leaves with no penalty, also once no matter what with no penalty.

After that they should have to sit out a year -- can't have free agency here.

 

[HuskyV]

I recall a documentary on 1970's free agency suggesting that the MLB owners were OK with 100% annual free agency.

The suggestion was that with all players seeking a roster spot each year, the demand would be suppressed (over-supply if talent available each year). It would not hurt that "bad" long term contracts would be eliminated.

Not sure how this would have played out in MLB - I guess we will find out in NCAA Hoop & football.

I find it curious that most people seem more OK with the concept of a Student Athlete losing a scholarship due to academics (not performing in the classroom), rather than not proving to be competitive at their sport (not performing on the field). One seen as cut throat & the other dismissed that the SA did not work hard.

 

[Waquoit]

I recall a documentary on 1970's free agency suggesting that the MLB owners were OK with 100% annual free agency.

I'm not sure about that. I remember Charley Finley proposing that and the attitude being "there goes Charlie again."

 

[Tenspro2002]

This goes both ways. The trade-off is that after identifying an under recruited kid and coaching him up & developing him, he becomes a free agent for the next level.

This is just another rule that benefits the big guys. Next will be the expansion of rosters so they can keep more talent for themselves

Expanding rosters doesn't make sense. Despite all the hype they get even for sitting on the bench, a kid isn't going to want to go to Kentucky to be the 13th man.

 

[CL82]

If that's the biggest concern, then approving this is a no-brainer. If you enter the portal and don't get an offer, I'm thinking your future isn't in hoop. It's sad maybe if a player makes a poor decision, it's not a tragedy. The old way, you have coaches like Martelli screwing players for no good reason.

Yeah but Martelli was by far the exception rather than the rule. I really lost a lot of respect for him after that BS.