Cuban's D League Proposal

[freescooter]

upstater, I believe Harmon Killebrew didn't play in the minors, but in recent years I can't think of anyone.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

upstater, I believe Harmon Killebrew didn't play in the minors, but in recent years I can't think of anyone.

If memory serves me, Dave Winfield always held it as a point of great pride he never spent a day in the Minors.

I think the age limit is a crock. Just more exploitation of these young men. No one complains about 17 year old hockey players, 17 year old pro golfers, and 15 year old pro tennis players (who travel the world alone in many instances). There are several reasons for the different treatment, the main one being owners know they can't trust each other or themselves. No one forces a team to draft a kid straight out of high school. So if you don't like young players on your team...don't draft them. But they know they won't be able to resist the next LeBron, Kobe, McGrady, KG, etc.

Stopping a kid, often one from poor financial cirucmstances, from becoming a millioniare simply because it suits you is anti-american. And don't bother with the "they need an education" crap. Have you seen what passes for education for a blue-chip athlete at most programs? We have passed the point where a major land grant institution like UNC has become so lazy...instead of having professors hand out "gentlemen's Cs" to athletes..they simply created false classes and gave them As.

 

[freescooter]

If memory serves me, Dave Winfield always held it as a point of great pride he never spent a day in the Minors.

I think the age limit is a crock. Just more exploitation of these young men. No one complains about 17 year old hockey players, 17 year old pro golfers, and 15 year old pro tennis players (who travel the world alone in many instances). There are several reasons for the different treatment, the main one being owners know they can't trust each other or themselves. No one forces a team to draft a kid straight out of high school. So if you don't like young players on your team...don't draft them. But they know they won't be able to resist the next LeBron, Kobe, McGrady, KG, etc.

Stopping a kid, often one from poor financial cirucmstances, from becoming a millioniare simply because it suits you is anti-american. And don't bother with the "they need an education" crap. Have you seen what passes for education for a blue-chip athlete at most programs? We have passed the point where a major land grant institution like UNC has become so lazy...instead of having professors hand out "gentlemen's Cs" to athletes..they simply created false classes and gave them As.

You might be right about Winfield, I can't recall. But I agree with you on the rest of your post.

 

[upstater]

The reality is what you express. I'm just questioning why so many universities are driven to participate in the escalation of the monies allocated to get better AD's and coaches. Are so many under the false impression that they can be one of the 10%? From past post I've read by you, I'm assuming that the majority of the pressure and decision making is coming from BOT's and alumni.

BTW, I would say UConn has received a tremendous bump from its success.

I think the academic administrators are clueless. This is not their area of expertise. A few are clued in. Most want to collect their $700k and focus on the $1 billion enterprise that is their domain. They are easily swayed by the most preposterous projections from their ADs. But if someone actually gets the gumption up to add 2+2 (as Elsa Benitez did at A&M when she asked the AD to lower its budget after an unexpected $15m loss) they could be tossed out on their ears. Even at MAC schools the programs are sacred elephants.

 

[upstater]

If memory serves me, Dave Winfield always held it as a point of great pride he never spent a day in the Minors.

I think the age limit is a crock. Just more exploitation of these young men. No one complains about 17 year old hockey players, 17 year old pro golfers, and 15 year old pro tennis players (who travel the world alone in many instances). There are several reasons for the different treatment, the main one being owners know they can't trust each other or themselves. No one forces a team to draft a kid straight out of high school. So if you don't like young players on your team...don't draft them. But they know they won't be able to resist the next LeBron, Kobe, McGrady, KG, etc.

Stopping a kid, often one from poor financial cirucmstances, from becoming a millioniare simply because it suits you is anti-american. And don't bother with the "they need an education" crap. Have you seen what passes for education for a blue-chip athlete at most programs? We have passed the point where a major land grant institution like UNC has become so lazy...instead of having professors hand out "gentlemen's Cs" to athletes..they simply created false classes and gave them As.

What 17 year old hockey players?

Aren't tennis and golf different than team sports (where size matters)?

 

[upstater]

You might be right about Winfield, I can't recall. But I agree with you on the rest of your post.

Dave Winfield went to college at Minnesota. He was 22 when he made his major league debut.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

What 17 year old hockey players?

Aren't tennis and golf different than team sports (where size matters)?

Many hockey players join semi-pro or minor leagues at 17. There was some kid named Wayne who did it back in the late 70s and he wasn't the exception.

You never here the size arguement in basketball. In football, it is a no-brainer. In basketball the arguments are usually about maturity, education, or the NCAA needing stars. I personally wish most of them went to college for several reasons. I am simply not in a favor of a policy the mandates they do so (or eliminates the option).

 

[upstater]

Many hockey players join semi-pro or minor leagues at 17. There was some kid named Wayne who did it back in the late 70s and he wasn't the exception.

You never here the size arguement in basketball. In football, it is a no-brainer. In basketball the arguments are usually about maturity, education, or the NCAA needing stars. I personally wish most of them went to college for several reasons. I am simply not in a favor of a policy the mandates they do so (or eliminates the option).

We're talking about kids being allowed into the NBA. It's very different than being allowed to play minor league or even Juniors in hockey. After all, there's nothing at all stopping a kid right now from going to the NBDL. Nothing stopping them. There is no restriction against a kid signing with the NBDL. Or the European leagues. The basketball kids can do exactly what the hockey kids do, but they choose not to.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

We're talking about kids being allowed into the NBA. It's very different than being allowed to play minor league or even Juniors in hockey. After all, there's nothing at all stopping a kid right now from going to the NBDL. Nothing stopping them. There is no restriction against a kid signing with the NBDL. Or the European leagues. The basketball kids can do exactly what the hockey kids do, but they choose not to.

I can list 20 players who started in the NHL under the age of 20. Can current high school basketball players do that?

 

[upstater]

I can list 20 players who started in the NHL under the age of 20. Can current high school basketball players do that?

Yes, yes they can. A lot of them do, including players from UConn like Andre Drummond. He was drafted as an 18 year old.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Yes, yes they can.

...................................

 

[freescooter]

Dave Winfield went to college at Minnesota. He was 22 when he made his major league debut.

Right, but he went directly from college to the Padres. Its a rare thing. Even guys who play college ball usually end up in the minors for a few years. For what its worth Winfield was also drafted by the NBA (he played basketball at Minnesota, too) and the NFL although he didn't play college football.

As far as the NBA is concerned and kids jumping to the Dleague, you're right that it doesn't happen or rarely happens if it does. that's why i say it will be necessary to incentivize that with a system of bonuses somewhat like baseball uses. D-league salaries max out at $25,500. They have 3 tiers, that's the highest. The others are $19,00 and $13,000. My guess is if they paid a living salary or provided signing bonuses to guys they expect to move up the following season, it would be more attractive. The other part of this is that there isn't really a tradition of starting in the Dleague and moving up like there is in baseball or hockey. So something would have to happen to change the standard paradigm. bonuses would be one option. the other would be a change on the college side along the lines of what I've proposed or something else. I suspect a change that would allow high school players to be drafted out of high school without the 1 year wait would change the paradigm, too. Someone doing it and being exceptionally successful might as well. That hasn't really happened either.

 

[upstater]

Right, but he went directly from college to the Padres. Its a rare thing. Even guys who play college ball usually end up in the minors for a few years. For what its worth Winfield was also drafted by the NBA (he played basketball at Minnesota, too) and the NFL although he didn't play college football.

I think there have been several college players over the years that went right to the pros. I remember Pete Incavigilia came right out of college. Then there's also the story of David Clyde who went from HS to the majors in the mid 70s. I started watching the Sox as a 7 year old in 1975 but I don't remember Clyde at all. ESPN did a big story on him a while back. His career was basically ruined by him going from HS to the pros.

 

[David 76]

Yes, the student applications went up and now our students are smarter. I'm sure it helped move the state legislature to approve many new buildings.
Good side effects.
But the fact that colleges serve as the NBA's free minor league, even for kids not interested in college, remains a problem.

 

[Strummer]

Whatever happens, my only objection is to anybody claiming that a rule is "for the kids."
It's a zero sum game. For every 1 and done that bombs out of the NBA, there's some other person who makes it in and sticks. Don't cry for the 1 and doner who went too early - be happy for the kid who took his place.

At 18 you are a man by most standards (except a bizarre alcohol restriction). You can vote, you can join the army and kill people, you can marry, you can contract, you will be on the hook for 18 years of support if you impregnate some young lass - you should also have the right to do what you want with your career.

If the NBA wants to ban 18, 19 years old, or whatever, that's their choice. If the NCAA wants to ban a kid from returning if he tests the draft, that's their choice. But please don't tell me it's for the kid. That's complete horsesh-t.

 

[David 76]

Agree. Except for the part about having a baby. (I think you are responsible even if you are only 17, 16, 15...
But the lousy part of this is the NBA gets a free minor league system and kids who aren't named LeBron have to fake an interest in college (while colleges make believe they are students)

 

[Walker11]

I have no problem with a 0, 2 or 3 year requirement but the OAD rule makes a mockery of the NCAA.

 

[whaler11]

I have no problem with a 0, 2 or 3 year requirement but the OAD rule makes a mockery of the NCAA.

It's not an NCAA rule so what are they supposed to do about it?

 

[Walker11]

It's not an NCAA rule so what are they supposed to do about it?

They ccan't do anything. I don't blame the NCAA but it doesn't mean they aren't a mockery

 

[uconnfan68]

What does that have to do with what I said?

Just giving my own opinion, which was a bit like yours.

 

[upstater]

They ccan't do anything. I don't blame the NCAA but it doesn't mean they aren't a mockery

The mockery is the entrance standards and the classes.

But I'm OK with OAD if there were actual standards which can be instituted but will never be. OAD is no different than 10% of the freshman population dropping out after the first year. 5 more basketball players OAD is no different than 500 other students being OAD. No one questions the goals of the university just because 500 students drop out. So OAD isn't the problem. The problem is the sham that goes on that enables OAD for basketball.