Cuban's D League Proposal

[whaler11]

The downside for who? The kids? Are you telling me Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker is more of a star because he played a year in college? The shoe companies would have ran to these kids with life altering endorsement deals regardless. These days the buzz for players starts in prep school. Of course, there are always rare exceptions that grow into being stars, but most one and dones don't benefit a single bit on the court. If anything, I think less of Andrew Wiggins as a player now than the start of year.

The downside for the NBA. ESPN has been a 6 month commercial for a half dozen freshman.

If Parker disappeared to some D League hinterland he'd wouldn't exactly be playing games with millions watching night after night.

You wouldn't have tanking teams fans able to watch the top kids and get exited for who they pick.

Are you seriously going to argue that more people don't know who Parker is after a year at Duke then when he was in high school last year?

How about if Duke makes the Final Four? Do you think more people will be aware of him?

 

[djct1999]

I think Cuban is calling out the NCAA for the fraud that it is. Placing an age limit on these kids benefits everyone but the few kids that have a chance of getting drafted. To me, I think its far more beneficial to have that type of elite kid play in a developmental league and being taught life lessons instead of calling him a "student athlete" and have him attend a few classes fall semester of his freshman year. In this scenario, the downside is the kid banked millions and hopefully learned some transferable skills and lessons. The way it is now, these kids are being exploited while many around them benefit.

 

[tzznandrew]

The downside for the NBA. ESPN has been a 6 month commercial for a half dozen freshman.

If Parker disappeared to some D League hinterland he'd wouldn't exactly be playing games with millions watching night after night.

You wouldn't have tanking teams fans able to watch the top kids and get exited for who they pick.

Are you seriously going to argue that more people don't know who Parker is after a year at Duke then when he was in high school last year?

How about if Duke makes the Final Four? Do you think more people will be aware of him?

But he'd only be in the DLeague if they still had the current rule. That's what makes this so stupid. In the current world, you're totally right. In the world that should be there (either no requirement, or an MLB style set-up), Wiggins and Parker would have deals like LeBron did.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I think Cuban is calling out the NCAA for the fraud that it is. Placing an age limit on these kids benefits everyone but the few kids that have a chance of getting drafted. To me, I think its far more beneficial to have that type of elite kid play in a developmental league and being taught life lessons instead of calling him a "student athlete" and have him attend a few classes fall semester of his freshman year. In this scenario, the downside is the kid banked millions and hopefully learned some transferable skills and lessons. The way it is now, these kids are being exploited while many around them benefit.

Who exactly was it that placed an age limit?

 

[David 76]

Cuban was proposing 21 replacing 19

 

[upstater]

I think Cuban is calling out the NCAA for the fraud that it is. Placing an age limit on these kids benefits everyone but the few kids that have a chance of getting drafted.

I don't understand this argument about the age limit. The NBA is a private business. Clearly they have the right to establish entry credentials.

 

[uconnfan68]

My general take on all this is, a kid with no interest in college shouldn't have to fake it in an attempt to get to the NBA or NFL.
But I realize the practical solution is hard to find. Good to hear a big business guy raise it as an issue. Maybe he could find away to put it together outside of his day job and Shark Tank.

I think that any kid that wants to be in the NBA (or NFL) should be able to try it... no matter what age. Baseball doesn't impose that. Soccer doesn't. Golf doesn't. Hockey doesn't. Just seems to be the NCAA cash cows that warrant professional leagues lending them a few players for a few years of glory for the good of old State U. The whole mess is absurd. I can't believe more lawsuits haven't been filed.

 

[djct1999]

I don't understand this argument about the age limit. The NBA is a private business. Clearly they have the right to establish entry credentials.

They actually don't. No change in the rules of draft entry can be made without the approval of the player's union. This was fought once before and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the player. This latest age rule of 19 was collectively bargained in 2005 after much resistance from the players union. Stern initially wanted the limit to be 20 but they finally agreed on 19 after the league conceded some things in the salary cap that favored existing players.

 

[David 76]

I think that any kid that wants to be in the NBA (or NFL) should be able to try it... no matter what age. Baseball doesn't impose that. Soccer doesn't. Golf doesn't. Hockey doesn't. Just seems to be the NCAA cash cows that warrant professional leagues lending them a few players for a few years of glory for the good of old State U. The whole mess is absurd. I can't believe more lawsuits haven't been filed.

What does that have to do with what I said?

 

[upstater]

I think that any kid that wants to be in the NBA (or NFL) should be able to try it... no matter what age. Baseball doesn't impose that. Soccer doesn't. Golf doesn't. Hockey doesn't. Just seems to be the NCAA cash cows that warrant professional leagues lending them a few players for a few years of glory for the good of old State U. The whole mess is absurd. I can't believe more lawsuits haven't been filed.

I can't think of a single baseball player that went directly to the majors. Not one. Granted, they don't impose an age limit in theory but in practice, these kids don't go to the majors after HS. The NBA has more kids like that playing right now than baseball has in the last few decades. Even Alex Rodriguez didn't play until he was 19 (actually just a few days short of his 19th birthday), and his first game was in the middle of the season 1 1/2 years after he was drafted. The prior season, he spent the entire year in the minor leagues. In soccer it's also a rarity. While you do have 18 and 19 year olds playing professionally in smaller leagues (the equivalent of the minors) they rarely get to the Spanish League or EPL before their 20s. The biggest soccer talent of this generation (Neymar) started playing in the top leagues just this year at age 22 after spending 3 years in the Brazilian lower and upper division. Of all the sports, hockey is like basketball in that there are players who began playing at the top level at age 18 but given the structure of Junior Hockey where players go away from home at an early age to play at the top level (you have paid professionals in the Juniors) the transition is easier for those top players.

 

[djct1999]

I can't think of a single baseball player that went directly to the majors. Not one. Granted, they don't impose an age limit in theory but in practice, these kids don't go to the majors after HS. The NBA has more kids like that playing right now than baseball has in the last few decades. Even Alex Rodriguez didn't play until he was 19 (actually just a few days short of his 19th birthday), and his first game was in the middle of the season 1 1/2 years after he was drafted. The prior season, he spent the entire year in the minor leagues. In soccer it's also a rarity. While you do have 18 and 19 year olds playing professionally in smaller leagues (the equivalent of the minors) they rarely get to the Spanish League or EPL before their 20s. The biggest soccer talent of this generation (Neymar) started playing in the top leagues just this year at age 22 after spending 3 years in the Brazilian lower and upper division. Of all the sports, hockey is like basketball in that there are players who began playing at the top level at age 18 but given the structure of Junior Hockey where players go away from home at an early age to play at the top level (you have paid professionals in the Juniors) the transition is easier for those top players.

Doesn't this sort of support what Cuban is suggesting? Most elite high school baseball prospects who forfeit college eligibility receive huge signing bonuses. If some NBA team is willing to invest that sort of money and time to a high school basketball player, while helping him develop on and off the court(like soccer in europe) than its well within that players rights.

 

[upstater]

Doesn't this sort of support what Cuban is suggesting? Most elite high school baseball prospects who forfeit college eligibility receive huge signing bonuses. If some NBA team is willing to invest that sort of money and time to a high school basketball player, while helping him develop on and off the court(like soccer in europe) than its well within that players rights.

Cuban is part of the NBA. Why is he hitting the NCAA for an NBA rule? That makes no sense. The NBA can do what it wants... maybe Cuban should take it up with his organization.

 

[djct1999]

Cuban is part of the NBA. Why is he hitting the NCAA for an NBA rule? That makes no sense. The NBA can do what it wants... maybe Cuban should take it up with his organization.

He is calling out the NCAA for the fraud that it is. If these kids are really student athletes, then why doesn't the ACC or Big Ten take up the same scheduling as the Ivy? Make these kids, like all students, take a full classload, and play games on fridays and weekends so they don't miss class. This will never happen. Why? Because elite athletes aren't students, but as long as the NCAA and universities say they are, maybe they can keep all the boatloads of cash these players generate!

 

[upstater]

He is calling out the NCAA for the fraud that it is. If these kids are really student athletes, then why doesn't the ACC or Big Ten take up the same scheduling as the Ivy? Make these kids, like all students, take a full classload, and play games on fridays and weekends so they don't miss class. This will never happen. Why? Because elite athletes aren't students, but as long as the NCAA and universities say they are, maybe they can keep all the boatloads of cash these players generate!

The academic side doesn't see a dime of that money--only the coaches do and the ADs (in fact, schools lose money on their athletic departments). Besides that, why would Cuban care that the NCAA is a sham?

 

[djct1999]

The academic side doesn't see a dime of that money--only the coaches do and the ADs (in fact, schools lose money on their athletic departments). Besides that, why would Cuban care that the NCAA is a sham?

People in support of an increased age limit say that the main reason would be to benefit the athlete. This is an absolute farce. Cuban is simply stating his opinion on what would actually benefit the athlete. He is speaking his opinion for them. Not the NCAA, NBA, or tv networks. For the athlete, there is absolutely nothing that is beneficial with an increase in the age limit.

 

[upstater]

People in support of an increased age limit say that the main reason would be to benefit the athlete. This is an absolute farce. Cuban is simply stating his opinion on what would actually benefit the athlete. He is speaking his opinion for them. Not the NCAA, NBA, or tv networks. For the athlete, there is absolutely nothing that is beneficial with an increase in the age limit.

This doesn't answer any questions.

I'm asking why he is critiquing the NCAA since the NCAA doesn't enforce any age limits at all.

 

[freescooter]

One major problem I have with Cuban's opinion is that he is attempting to paint an NBA regulation (one year after HS graduation before being draft eligible) as a fault of NCAA rules. The biggest reality here (also applies to football) is that for the entirety of their existence as major professional sports leagues, the minor league/developer & feeder system has been the NCAA and while MLB (and the NHL) invests millions each year to attempt to develop players from raw kids into major league talent, the NBA (and NFL) merely needs to scout these kids.

The NFL is really a completely different animal from the NBA or any other sport, so it doesn't make sense to even discuss that. And 1 and done really isn't much of an issue with football anyway. Every year you get a handful of Jrs who leave early, but for the most part guys stay 4 or 5 years. Basketball is where the issue is and where the college system is really abused and where a legitimate D-league system would make the most sense. There are players who are completely ready to play professionally but don't because the NBA simply won't draft them by rule, not based on ability. A well executed D-league system would ultimately be good for the NBA, good for college basketball and would end the charade that is the current system.

 

[UCweCONN]

More and more high school soccer players are signing with professional academies like those associated with MLS and some European clubs. Baseball already pulls the top prospects to the pros out of high school. There's no reason top basketball players should have to go to college and risk injury. College football is the only major college sport where college is needed for top players due to the complexity of the game and need to physically prepare to play at the next level.

 

[freescooter]

I pretty much agree with Cuban. His comment about the NCAA requiring a 1 year commitment is a little crazy, but other than that for elite players he's right on the button. I for one would love to see the NBA launch a true minor league. The issue though I think is money. Teams would have to take flyers on more guys, guarantee then "real money"not just some minimalD-league salary. It wouldn't have to be $15 million or what ever, but it would have to be similar to what baseball does. You'd still have college players who develop and are available and you'd have the possiblity of signing a guy out of high school (just say no to the 19 year old rule in the next player agreement). Then the NCAA would need to do its part and tell schools that every time a guy leaves early without graduating the school loses his scholarship until his class graduates. That 1 change would actually fix the current system. The coaches would scream bloody murder but it would work well and they would adapt pretty quickly. And wouldn't even bother recruiting 1 and dones. Which would help populate the D-league.

 

[djct1999]

This doesn't answer any questions.

I'm asking why he is critiquing the NCAA since the NCAA doesn't enforce any age limits at all.

The same reason why the likes of Boeheim and Coach K do. Are they critiquing the NBA or are their arguments self-serving? Cuban is contributing to the dialogue and is simply saying that keeping kids in school longer does not in any way help the elite kid. And he is right.

 

[upstater]

The same reason why the likes of Boeheim and Coach K do. Are they critiquing the NBA or are their arguments self-serving? Cuban is contributing to the dialogue and is simply saying that keeping kids in school longer does not in any way help the elite kid. And he is right.

His major point is that the NCAA is corrupt because it's keeping kids in school.

 

[djct1999]

His major point is that the NCAA is corrupt because it's keeping kids in school.

Its corrupt because the NCAA is hiding behind the guise that they are providing a free education and that these kids are brought in as students first, basketball players second. Cuban is merely calling them out for what they are: A business, and these kids are being used. Most elite players are not attending schools for the education.

 

[ctchamps]

His major point is that the NCAA is corrupt because it's keeping kids in school.

He didn't say corrupt. He said hypocritical. But your point is correct. The NCAA is not the entity that pulls the strings on this issue. It's the NBA that chooses the policy. And given that other sports (baseball, hockey) have a system in place which Cuban is advocating, his argument about it being the NCAA's choice is bogus. He might have been trying to express that it is foolish to believe these kids are getting an education, and that any expression by the NCAA to make a case for this is hypocritical (APR). But it didn't come across that way and it could have been his inability to say it well or the reporter not reporting it accurately.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I can't think of a single baseball player that went directly to the majors. Not one. Granted, they don't impose an age limit in theory but in practice, these kids don't go to the majors after HS. The NBA has more kids like that playing right now than baseball has in the last few decades. Even Alex Rodriguez didn't play until he was 19 (actually just a few days short of his 19th birthday), and his first game was in the middle of the season 1 1/2 years after he was drafted. The prior season, he spent the entire year in the minor leagues. In soccer it's also a rarity. While you do have 18 and 19 year olds playing professionally in smaller leagues (the equivalent of the minors) they rarely get to the Spanish League or EPL before their 20s. The biggest soccer talent of this generation (Neymar) started playing in the top leagues just this year at age 22 after spending 3 years in the Brazilian lower and upper division. Of all the sports, hockey is like basketball in that there are players who began playing at the top level at age 18 but given the structure of Junior Hockey where players go away from home at an early age to play at the top level (you have paid professionals in the Juniors) the transition is easier for those top players.

I think Pele played his first World Cup at 16

 

[ctchamps]

Its corrupt because the NCAA is hiding behind the guise that they are providing a free education and that these kids are brought in as students first, basketball players second. Cuban is merely calling them out for what they are: A business, and these kids are being used. Most elite players are not attending schools for the education.

Two issues. One is the choice of the system in place is the NBA's choice and not the NCAAs. The NBA can change policy immediately with or without the NCAA's permission. The second is that given the system set up by the NBA, the NCAA is promoting the system by stating these kids are getting an education. And that is far from the truth. The hypocrisy is that people are promoting something that isn't happening and people are either buying it or not willing to look at things more critically.

I would think Cuban knows that the NBA's decision to let colleges develop kids is the primary engine driving the system, one the NCAA is exploiting with inaccuracies. And most of us Boneyarders are well aware of the NCAA hypocrisy particularly with the APR.